Balancing the First and Second Units

[Joshyjosh31]

So you really want to give up all your picks to be a 6th seed? Lauri isn’t getting us out of the first round as defensively we would still be bad.

I would give up DD, Carter, two firsts and some seconds for him.

 

[sactowndog]

I would give up DD, Carter, two firsts and some seconds for him.

Ugh. Given we won’t have this year and we have a swap in 31 we would lose a lot of capital.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

Ugh. Given we won’t have this year and we have a swap in 31 we would lose a lot of capital.

According to Spotac we have the filling first rounders assuming we give ATL this years pick:

2027 Sac
2027 SA
2028 Sac
2029 Sac
2030 Sac
2031 Minnesota

I would trade every first we have besides the Minnesota one because Edwards isn’t staying there

 

[The_Jamal]

I would give up DD, Carter, two firsts and some seconds for him.

I think Ainge really missed the window to sell Lauri at an all-time high. He's been pretty average this year. I think he's still an all-star talent, but Ainge could have gotten just about whatever he wanted this summer and opted not to.

 

[iowamcnabb]

I think Ainge really missed the window to sell Lauri at an all-time high. He's been pretty average this year. I think he's still an all-star talent, but Ainge could have gotten just about whatever he wanted this summer and opted not to.

he actually makes me a bit nervous. 4 years left on his deal after this season and he plays around 60 games each season. A 7 footer with back problems is probably not my first choice. It’s not a hard no for me but I’d have to see what a deal looks like. There aren’t a ton of playoff caliber teams that can match his salary and have a need

 

[Joshyjosh31]

I think Ainge really missed the window to sell Lauri at an all-time high. He's been pretty average this year. I think he's still an all-star talent, but Ainge could have gotten just about whatever he wanted this summer and opted not to.

Made no sense GSW was willing to give up a lot and I assume we were too but he likes playing games. Also didn’t sell on Collins, Sexton, and Clarkson at the deadline

 

[The_Jamal]

Made no sense GSW was willing to give up a lot and I assume we were too but he likes playing games. Also didn’t sell on Collins, Sexton, and Clarkson at the deadline

GS was also dumb because they didn't want to "part" with Podz lol. Oops

 

[Rain man]

The offseason trade that continues to make so much sense for both teams is Demar for PJ Washington. Dallas is clearly in a win-now situation, and has explicitly said their window is a title in the next 2-3 years. Demar fits perfectly in that window, and he balances out their starting lineup nicely. Lively/Gafford along with AD, Demar, Klay and Irving is very solid. The center and AD more than cover up the weakness of the wing defense, and Klay, Irving, and AD provide sufficient spacing on offense to allow Demar to cook in the midrange. A total win now move for Dallas.

And we finally get to balance out our lineup. PJ is a perfect 4 to play alongside Domas. Plus, the added benefit is that it pushes Keegan to a full time 3. We suddenly go from undersized and soft at the wings, to big and defensive minded. The lineup also has tons of shooting, with PJ, Keegan, Domas, Lavine and Monk all being capable and willing shooters. Plus, if you add PJ to the lineup, you can still manage the Lavine and Monk egos by letting them start and bringing Keon off the bench. The bench doesn't have a ton of scoring, but it is tough as hell, long, and super defensive minded. Imagine this lineup next year:

Domas/JV
PJ/Lyles
Keegan/LaRavia
Lavine/Ellis
Monk/Fultz/Carter

 

[Joshyjosh31]

The offseason trade that continues to make so much sense for both teams is Demar for PJ Washington. Dallas is clearly in a win-now situation, and has explicitly said their window is a title in the next 2-3 years. Demar fits perfectly in that window, and he balances out their starting lineup nicely. Lively/Gafford along with AD, Demar, Klay and Irving is very solid. The center and AD more than cover up the weakness of the wing defense, and Klay, Irving, and AD provide sufficient spacing on offense to allow Demar to cook in the midrange. A total win now move for Dallas.

And we finally get to balance out our lineup. PJ is a perfect 4 to play alongside Domas. Plus, the added benefit is that it pushes Keegan to a full time 3. We suddenly go from undersized and soft at the wings, to big and defensive minded. The lineup also has tons of shooting, with PJ, Keegan, Domas, Lavine and Monk all being capable and willing shooters. Plus, if you add PJ to the lineup, you can still manage the Lavine and Monk egos by letting them start and bringing Keon off the bench. The bench doesn't have a ton of scoring, but it is tough as hell, long, and super defensive minded. Imagine this lineup next year:

Domas/JV
PJ/Lyles
Keegan/LaRavia
Lavine/Ellis
Monk/Fultz/Carter

Why would dallas entertain trading PJ he’s on a good contract and from the nonsense the nba forced Nico to say he fits what they want with defense and fake toughness. Our chance for him came and went the deadline we got cash considerations

 

[Rain man]

Why would dallas entertain trading PJ he’s on a good contract and from the nonsense the nba forced Nico to say he fits what they want with defense and fake toughness. Our chance for him came and went the deadline we got cash considerations

Because they want to win in the Kyrie/AD window, and Lively/AD/PJ/Klay/Kyrie isn't winning a championship. If they flame out this year, they are going to be looking for win-now improvements.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

Because they want to win in the Kyrie/AD window, and Lively/AD/PJ/Klay/Kyrie isn't winning a championship. If they flame out this year, they are going to be looking for win-now improvements.

They’re not making a trade just because they lost let alone after a season filled with injuries they’ll get like ten games together before the playoffs start.
They also want defenders we have none to offer unless we’re giving them Kepn or Keegan

 

[SacTownKid]

Yeah, the list of “stars” that might (and I mean “might”) be available during the offseason are…

• James Harden
• Joel Embiid
• Julius Randle
• Kawhi Leonard
• Kevin Durant
• Lauri Markkanen
• Paul George
• Trae Young
• Zion Williamson

That’s not a very inspiring list, and of that list, I’d say only these players have the ability/potential to be a #1 on a top team…

• Joel Embiid
• Kawhi Leonard
• Kevin Durant
• Zion Williamson

And of that list, I don’t see how Embiid makes sense with Sabonis here (and I doubt we have the assets to beat out other teams anyway). The other three guys all have injury and/or age concerns.

I probably like Leonard the least out of those 3 considering he’s just as big of an injury risk as Zion but he’ll also be 34 years old at the start of next season (9 years older than Zion). If I’m going to bet on a player who’s had injury issues, I’m taking the 25 year old.

Durant has his own injury concerns but definitely not at the level of Leonard or Zion. However, he’s going to be 37 at the start of next season. How much longer will he play and will it be at an high enough level to still be an #1 option? Also, he’ll be an UFA after the 2025-26 season. What are we having to give up to get him and will he end up just walking in 1 year’s time?

Having said that, Durant is an excellent fit on paper for us (better fit than Zion) so maybe it’s worth the risk (depending on the price) to hope that you strike gold in that 1 year with him and convince him to hang around for a bit longer.

The other issue with trading for Durant is what would PHX want? They don’t own their 2027, 2029, and 2031 1sts, and they owe swaps on their 2026, 2028, and 2030 1sts. Trading both Durant and Booker and bottoming out doesn’t seem like a realistic path unless they are getting some of their own 1sts back in the deal. The complication is that multiple teams are tied to their 1sts (HOU and UTA) and multiple teams are tied to their swaps (WAS, ORL, BKN, MEM).

Maybe there is some universe where they send us Durant for assets and send Booker to HOU for their picks and other assets, and weave in one or two of those teams (UTA, WAS, ORL, BKN, MEM) to get more of their picks/pick swaps back. Or maybe they are satisfied with simply moving Durant for assets and attempting to retool around Booker (thus keeping the picks they owe to other teams not as valuable). Hard to say what they want to do.

If you can turn LaVine + assets into Durant and flip DeRozan + assets for Cam Johnson, that’s a pretty good looking, complementary team…

PG - Monk / Carter
SG - Ellis
SF - Murray / Johnson
PF - Durant
C - Sabonis / Valanciunas

Yeah, that ain't the list and for the most part you'd be rearranging deck chairs while actually reducing your own timeline. You certainly don't want to shoot your shot this early if you're Monte. Wait and see what happens, build, develop, etc. The Kings starting line up is what it is, and for anything to remotely change with this roster it starts and ends there. Just like it did with Fox. They replaced him immediately when trading him essentially, now the other things are what matters. Draft well, develop youth, hang onto your picks, and see what works with your squad and a way forward and what opportunities might arise at some point.

 

[kingsboi]

Yeah, that ain't the list and for the most part you'd be rearranging deck chairs while actually reducing your own timeline. You certainly don't want to shoot your shot this early if you're Monte. Wait and see what happens, build, develop, etc. The Kings starting line up is what it is, and for anything to remotely change with this roster it starts and ends there. Just like it did with Fox. They replaced him immediately when trading him essentially, now the other things are what matters. Draft well, develop youth, hang onto your picks, and see what works with your squad and a way forward and what opportunities might arise at some point.

this is the only way, the sooner Vivek realizes the better off his investment will become. may not be immediate but its a long term process and requires patience, which has not been allowed with constant win now moves

 

[iowamcnabb]

Apparently JA Morant is the next big star to potentially get traded this offseason

 

[Joshyjosh31]

Apparently JA Morant is the next big star to potentially get traded this offseason

Big Star is a stretch

 

[iowamcnabb]

Big Star is a stretch

Id say he is considered a star. He would probably be the most coveted out of the players listed above. Durant would be number one for championship run type teams but he is 37

 

[Jdbraver137]

Id say he is considered a star. He would probably be the most coveted out of the players listed above. Durant would be number one for championship run type teams but he is 37

He isn’t coming to Sacramento

 

[iowamcnabb]

He isn’t coming to Sacramento

didn’t say he was. List was of the guys who could be available in the offseason

 

[Joshyjosh31]

Let teams battle out for Ja and we backdoor them for Zion

 

[coolhandluke]

He isn’t coming to Sacramento

Complete list of players wanting to come to Sacramento:
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

What started out as an effort to seek ideas on balancing the current first and second units has morphed into a full fledged fantasy trade fest. The roster is set for this season, folks. It's akin to searching for prospective brides at the altar. Now, we're fantasizing about possible divorcees.

 

[twslam07]

Complete list of players wanting to come to Sacramento:
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

What started out as an effort to seek ideas on balancing the current first and second units has morphed into a full fledged fantasy trade fest. The roster is set for this season, folks. It's akin to searching for prospective brides at the altar. Now, we're fantasizing about possible divorcees.

That’s fair and I’ll admit I contributed to the derailing of the thread by throwing out some trade ideas. Sorry about that.

So turning our attention back to the roster we have for the rest of the season, I guess I look at it more from a long term perspective. I think there are many reasons to leave the starting and closing lineup as is (Monk, LaVine, DeRozan, Murray, and Sabonis), but unfortunately, among that list of reasons, none of them include winning more basketball games this season…

1. We increase our odds of keeping our 2025 1st (which would be a lottery pick) since that lineup has shown to not be that effective thus far
2. We keep Monk, LaVine, and DeRozan “happy” heading into the offseason where you inevitably need to trade at least one of them. I’d rather be in a position of trading a player who is happy/content vs. a player who might be publicly upset about coming off the bench and/or not closing out games. It should help us in negotiations (or at least not hurt us).
3. And by keeping all of them “happy,” it allows us a longer runway to gather more data to see which guys we should keep/move forward with the following season. For example, if we decide to bench Monk for Ellis now, we risk Monk becoming upset and/or asking out (which also likely lowers his trade value on the market), but as the season goes on and we gather more datapoints, maybe we realize that we’re much better when our backcourt is Monk/Ellis vs. Ellis/LaVine. Well did we already burn that bridge with Monk considering he’s upset about being initially benched/not closing games? Are we now forced to move Monk after realizing he’s the better fit, long term piece for us?
4. You might keep Ellis’ price tag down when it comes time to resign him. Heading into the offseason, I expect that we will decline Ellis’ option making him a RFA (vs. allowing him to become a UFA the following offseason). If Ellis is not starting and closing games, perhaps we can get him on a slightly better long term deal.

In general, keeping the lineup as is seems to give us more flexibility in the long run in how we want to build the roster while potentially improving our assets (keeping the 2025 1st and getting Ellis on a better contract).

I know it’s frustrating because it’s glaringly obvious that Monk, LaVine, and DeRozan is not going to work long term, but I think it’d be best for our future to keep it as is (until we get to the off-season obviously).

 

[Caccia]

I know it’s frustrating because it’s glaringly obvious that Monk, LaVine, and DeRozan is not going to work long term

You must be quite the stargazer, telling all that after six games.

 

[GWD]

Would Christie call Monk, DeRosen, and LaVine into his office to have a man-to-man-to-man-to-man conversation about balancing the team? That is, prioritizing defense.

Would he ask if anyone of them would be willing to come off the bench to improve the team? Might any of them say yes? Is it even a necessary modification?

If they all said no, does he have the authority, power, and courage to make a decision about who becomes the 6th man? What assurances would he have to concede to a guy(s) that has to sit?

All questions, no answers.

 

[chief bromden]

Would Christie call Monk, DeRosen, and LaVine into his office to have a man-to-man-to-man-to-man conversation about balancing the team? That is, prioritizing defense.

Would he ask if anyone of them would be willing to come off the bench to improve the team? Might any of them say yes? Is it even a necessary modification?

If they all said no, does he have the authority, power, and courage to make a decision about who becomes the 6th man? What assurances would he have to concede to a guy(s) that has to sit?

All questions, no answers.

I plugged your musing into GPT and it said Christie definitely has the authority but the courage part is definitely more tricky. So there is at least one answer. For the rest of the questions, I guess we will have to wait to see.

Are you misspelling DeRozan's name on purpose?

 

[twslam07]

You must be quite the stargazer, telling all that after six games.

I’m happy to be proven wrong as the season plays out, but typically teams that start & close games with 3 below average defenders at PG, SG, and SF are not going to work out too well especially when your C is undersized and not a defensive anchor who can erase mistakes.

Do you disagree with that?

 

[GWD]

I plugged your musing into GPT and it said Christie definitely has the authority but the courage part is definitely more tricky. So there is at least one answer. For the rest of the questions, I guess we will have to wait to see.

Are you misspelling DeRozan's name on purpose?

Of course I'm speling Demer DaRosen incorectly on purpuse. It is so important to do so. I'm sure you agre.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1893768501803856161

Apparently the black jersey is for starters

 

[ockingsfan]

One possible solution to the lack of defense in the starting line up would be to move LaVine to the lead guard opposite Keon and move Monk back to be our super 6th man.

I know LaVine played some PG early in his career and seeing the offense mostly runs through Domas, we may be able to preserve the highest paid player in the starting line up while getting some much needed defense with the 1st unit.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

One possible solution to the lack of defense in the starting line up would be to move LaVine to the lead guard opposite Keon and move Monk back to be our super 6th man.

I know LaVine played some PG early in his career and seeing the offense mostly runs through Domas, we may be able to preserve the highest paid player in the starting line up while getting some much needed defense with the 1st unit.

Would be an upgrade in spacing as well Monk hasn’t been shooting well from three we’d have three very good shooter starting plus Sabonis

 

[coolhandluke]

One possible solution to the lack of defense in the starting line up would be to move LaVine to the lead guard opposite Keon and move Monk back to be our super 6th man.

I know LaVine played some PG early in his career and seeing the offense mostly runs through Domas, we may be able to preserve the highest paid player in the starting line up while getting some much needed defense with the 1st unit.

LaVine is not a lead guard in any way. Never has been. He will cough up the ball under pressure. Not a reliable/creative passer. We have to stick with Monk as it has worked out well for us. Get the offensive mojo back for Monk and we should be good. Fultz is a mystery box and it's too late in the season to try him out.