Bagley progress and pending return

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#31
Holmes sounded very excited about Bagley coming back soon. Wasn't concerned in the least about any "disruption" to the team. I'm looking forward to seeing Holmes and Bagley in the lineup at the same time.
Bagley and Holmes playing at the same time is not a recipe for success. They both work in the paint and neither can spread the floor well so it's just turnovers and offensive dry spells waiting to happen.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#33
Not me, I'd rather go with what gives us the best chance to win right now, and that's Bjelica + Holmes.
Holmes accounts for about 27 minutes a game, Bjelica 25 minutes a game. That leaves 44 minutes for the center and power forward positions. There is going to be more than enough time to give Bagley approximately 30 minutes a game and then either Dedmond or Giles the remaining 14 minutes. I'm not worried about it. The guys who are worried are Giles and Dedmond.
 
#42
Bagley and Holmes playing at the same time is not a recipe for success. They both work in the paint and neither can spread the floor well so it's just turnovers and offensive dry spells waiting to happen.
On paper it does look a little odd but it's probably worth a shot to see to what extent they can work together. This is the problem with this team if the idea is to push Bjelica to the side. Since day 1 he's looked like that one guy who makes the other pieces fit seamlessly. When your team is gelling that can sometimes supersede talent. And BTW he's showing this year his does have quite a bit of talent. He's starting to look like Hedo did for the Kings back in the day.
 
#43
The thing is that I trust Walton to make it work more than I ever trusted Joerger.

Luke has already proven to be pretty adept at adjusting his system to the talent available (Dedmon high post adventures excluded) and I think he’d figure out a way to make a Bagley/Holmes lineup work.
Agreed. The Kings are doing very well with a starting lineup with two non-3 point shooting threats (Holmes and CoJo) right now. I think they can do the same with Bagley in the starting lineup with Holmes, once D Fox is back healthy.

I think Luke will figure out a way to get Bagley back up to speed before inserting him back into the starting lineup. I think the best case scenario is to wait for Fox to get healthy and to re-insert both Fox and Bagley back into the starting line up together.

I don't think you can have a CoJo-Bagley-Holmes starting lineup, but I think we could see a Fox-Bagley-Holmes starting lineup work. Fox would need to increase his 3 point attempts and take over some of the floor spacing lost by bringing Bjeli off the bench.
 
#44
On paper it does look a little odd but it's probably worth a shot to see to what extent they can work together. This is the problem with this team if the idea is to push Bjelica to the side. Since day 1 he's looked like that one guy who makes the other pieces fit seamlessly. When your team is gelling that can sometimes supersede talent. And BTW he's showing this year his does have quite a bit of talent. He's starting to look like Hedo did for the Kings back in the day.
Yep there's a reason why Bjelica had the best advanced stats for 90% of the year last year and currently does at this point this year as well. His stats don't jump off the page but he's efficient and plays smart basketball on both ends of the court despite not really being athletic at all.
 
#45
The thing is, we have no sample size worth any value when it comes to knowing whether or not Holmes and Bagley are a good fit

I would hope people aren’t gauging this based on the opening night results
 
#46
Hoping Bagley has had plenty of time to hone that 3 point shot with his non shooting hand injury? Im looking forward to the Holmes Bagley front court experience, just hope it does not throw off Bjelicas game. too much.
 
#47
The thing is, we have no sample size worth any value when it comes to knowing whether or not Holmes and Bagley are a good fit

I would hope people aren’t gauging this based on the opening night results
Well, this hot streak has been driven by team defense and ball movement. Two things Bjelica brings to the table that happen to be major weaknesses in Bagley's game.

IIRC Marvin's jumper was starting to look wet towards the end of preseason, so I'm not sure if spacing will be much of a problem, but he could hurt us in other ways.

Personally, I dont think bringing him off the bench is a bad thing. He can get us 20/10 as a backup while he develops and fills out his game.

And Bagley Sr. can STFU about it. I won't have him besmirching Walton's good name!

(Not that anything is set in stone at this point, obviously)
 
#48
until Marvin proves he can be a threat from outside, it's really not an experiment worth trying
Of course it’s worth trying. The team right now is playing great. Has me feeling optimistic and proud again. However, the future prospects of this team hinge so much on Marvins development that you absolutely need to see what we have and work to fit him into the system and/or tailor the system to fit him. Either we overly worry about the present and do everything to have a nice, happy success story this year with middle of the road prospects going forward, or we see if we can make progress with Marvins growth and figure out whether we have two potential young superstars (or not). It’s critical that he gets the reps this year and let him work his way into the NBA. He’s already missed significant portions of two years so need to push this forward.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#49
Of course it’s worth trying. The team right now is playing great. Has me feeling optimistic and proud again. However, the future prospects of this team hinge so much on Marvins development that you absolutely need to see what we have and work to fit him into the system and/or tailor the system to fit him. Either we overly worry about the present and do everything to have a nice, happy success story this year with middle of the road prospects going forward, or we see if we can make progress with Marvins growth and figure out whether we have two potential young superstars (or not). It’s critical that he gets the reps this year and let him work his way into the NBA. He’s already missed significant portions of two years so need to push this forward.
If Walton wants to experiment in practice, fine but the Kings are playing the right way right now and there is no need to disrupt the flow. It doesn't take much to lose and Bagley will have his place on the team without needing to play with Holmes together. I'd like to believe that Walton will put him in situations where he will be successful since the ball tends to stick in his hands once he gets it so that habit in itself will take time to correct, if its even correctable.
 
#50
The thing is, we have no sample size worth any value when it comes to knowing whether or not Holmes and Bagley are a good fit

I would hope people aren’t gauging this based on the opening night results
Not sure you have to see them play together to make that judgement. How many 3 point shots have you seen Holmes take? Just overlay Holmes shot chart and Bagley’s and see how much overlap you get. Bagley has taken some 3’s but from what we have seen to date he still isn’t proficient.

Until Bagley develops a perimeter game, I’m not sure he fits well with Holmes or Bjelicia. Sadly, both of them are key to our ball movement and defense.
 
#55
No, it isn't. It's more an indication that Luke likes what he's seeing so far and he's going to do what's best to get Bagley back into the fold. At some point, this stupidity about starting being the only thing just has to stop. Look at our record; look at how the team is playing for Walton. Give him some credit and let him make those decisions.
I'm reminded of when C-Web came back from the major injury, to a Kings team who had evolved to play quite efficiently without him. Everyone was glad to have him back, but rightly resented the disruption caused by Adleman shoehorning him in as a major offensive focus. I'm glad to have Marvin back, but expect him to integrate into what the team has become in his absence... which is pretty spectacular!
 
#56
The thing is that I trust Walton to make it work more than I ever trusted Joerger.

Luke has already proven to be pretty adept at adjusting his system to the talent available (Dedmon high post adventures excluded) and I think he’d figure out a way to make a Bagley/Holmes lineup work.
Its funny... five games in I was so close to calling for Walton's head. Now I'm just as close to being able to say, "Joerger WHO??"
 
#57
Not sure you have to see them play together to make that judgement. How many 3 point shots have you seen Holmes take? Just overlay Holmes shot chart and Bagley’s and see how much overlap you get. Bagley has taken some 3’s but from what we have seen to date he still isn’t proficient.

Until Bagley develops a perimeter game, I’m not sure he fits well with Holmes or Bjelicia. Sadly, both of them are key to our ball movement and defense.
I agree he needs to develop in a lot of ways, including on the perimeter, but the guy did shoot close to 40% from 3 after the all star break last year. It’s not like he’s completely some back to the basket lumbering big man.
 
#58
I agree he needs to develop in a lot of ways, including on the perimeter, but the guy did shoot close to 40% from 3 after the all star break last year. It’s not like he’s completely some back to the basket lumbering big man.
Whelp. That doesn't fit the narrative.

Not necessarily all the same people, but it is the same group that thought Fox needed to be more aggressive and take more shots, but when he goes down, say that we're better because Fox is not there dominating the ball. Will also tell you Westbrook sucks because all does is dominate the ball, chase numbers and get triple doubles, but when someone else does it, they are the greatest. So a lot of the Bagley bashing is emotion and "popularity" based. Even saying he's a nice little player that you want coming off the bench is being dismissive of a guy who worked his entire life to become the #2 pick in the draft. He's earned the benefit of the doubt.

Bagley is a massive talent and what management see's as part of our core. Top 2 or 3 pieces on the team. It makes no sense to limit an integral part of our team because a couple of role players are doing their jobs by playing specific roles well. Bagley has the talent to do all of the things the other big men can do on the team combined. You don't limit that in any way. You let him work it out on the floor with freedom (within reason) and let the role players fill in behind him. The wins will continue to come and the team will be better for having Marvin on the floor with the other core players.
 
#59
Marvin is pretty tricky. I think you have to make him play within our offense, but he can be an ISO ball stopper. Marvin really needs to learn to play without the ball like Holmes. Pick his open spots on the floor and get there. For a guy as athletic as he is, I don't think he moves well off the ball.

I know he's supposed to be our 2nd star alongside Fox, but he's not there yet. Kings have also been playing hot basketball and I don't think you would want to disrupt that just so Bagley can gt 15-20 shots up a game. The Kings are much better with Fox and Bagley on the team, but with them being absent, you're seeing a lot more cohesion with this team. Even when Buddy has off-nights, all of his shots are still good and flow within our offense. I'd rather Bagley put up 15-10 in a win rather than him put up 30-10 in a loss.
 
#60
I'm reminded of when C-Web came back from the major injury, to a Kings team who had evolved to play quite efficiently without him. Everyone was glad to have him back, but rightly resented the disruption caused by Adleman shoehorning him in as a major offensive focus. I'm glad to have Marvin back, but expect him to integrate into what the team has become in his absence... which is pretty spectacular!
I don't think most were worried about CWebb disrupting the offense. The problem was he could no longer move at all on defense, which had been one of the keys to why we were winning. As I recall, we had one of the top defenses in the league prior to his return & ended the season in the bottom half of the league.