Bagley’s worth now

#1
I didn’t get to watch the Pacers game last night. But it looks like Bagley had a great game. I was just wondering if some of those that talked down Bagley in this forum feel differently about him now?
It seems like a few weeks ago people in this forum were saying he was only worth a second round pick.
I’m thinking if he was in the draft now he’d be, oh say about a number 3 pick overall. I think he’s a very valuable guy to have on the team. Let’s just hope he can stay uninjured/healthy for a while. Maybe the coach just used him differently last night with Fox, Barnes, and Haliburton out? I’m guessing his defensive play is still poor?
What do you guys think? Has his stock changed now that he’s back and playing well?
 
#2
Bagleys post scoring and rebounding potential have never been called into question. Good for Bagley for coming back and putting up good numbers, but at the end of the day he still can’t shoot, defend, or pass. I’m not sure how valuable that skill set is in the NBA (see Jahlil Okafor) and I still don’t think he is worth valuing as a key piece going forward. He could be a nice bench big though.
 
#4
Yeah I dont think his skill has been questioned. Development and ultimate potential yes.

I just don't want to pay for what HE thinks he's worth. And I don't want to pay him on 'potential'. He will probably be a decent player, but probably somewhere else. I just don't want the typical kings overpay to keep someone here(see buddy heild)
 
#5
Yeah I dont think his skill has been questioned. Development and ultimate potential yes.

I just don't want to pay for what HE thinks he's worth. And I don't want to pay him on 'potential'. He will probably be a decent player, but probably somewhere else. I just don't want the typical kings overpay to keep someone here(see buddy heild)
We have the ability to match. But the cost of that ability could be him playing for the option and playing one year at 14M after we pay him 11M for next year.

One big game against an imploding Indiana team isn’t going to change opinions in the league. But given our draft slot we aren’t getting a new top level big so we need to find a way to help grow Marvin versus cutting him.
 
#9
Do we feel differently?

Uh, no.

He looks to have added some weight/strength on his vacation tho.

He is VERY far from reliable and not worth his current contract when considering the amount of games he plays each season and the on-court product.

It is going to take way more than a handful of games to lose the title MB (roken) III (times).

He is not strong enough to play center.
He is way below average defesively.
He has a looong way to go.
 
#10
Players with blocks last night:
Holmes 2
Davis 2
Wright 1
Jones 1 (in half time played as Bagley)
James 1
Bagley 0

He cannot hold position
He does fight and scrap
He has matador defense

He is not the big this team needs.
Lets revisit this when he gets 3 blocks in a game (you know, half of what Holmes has done numerous times this year).
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#11
Players with blocks last night:
Holmes 2
Davis 2
Wright 1
Jones 1 (in half time played as Bagley)
James 1
Bagley 0

He cannot hold position
He does fight and scrap
He has matador defense

He is not the big this team needs.
Lets revisit this when he gets 3 blocks in a game (you know, half of what Holmes has done numerous times this year).
To be fair, Marvin spent most of the night on the perimeter because most of the Pacers bigs are injured and they were playing small most of the night. And rather than over helping for blocks like he has in the past, Bagley was instead setting up on the backend for boards and actually kinda boxing out(!) which is probably preferable to our usual strategy of giving up twenty billion offensive boards a night. Holmes’ defensive role as a 5 and the role of a 4 in this scheme are completely different.
 
#13
To be fair, Marvin spent most of the night on the perimeter because most of the Pacers bigs are injured and they were playing small most of the night. And rather than over helping for blocks like he has in the past, Bagley was instead setting up on the backend for boards and actually kinda boxing out(!) which is probably preferable to our usual strategy of giving up twenty billion offensive boards a night. Holmes’ defensive role as a 5 and the role of a 4 in this scheme are completely different.
Thnks for the insight, but even our wings recorded bocks last night. How about the block Holmes did near the end of the game, the one where he brought the player down with the ball? You wouldn't see Bagley do something like that. He just doesn't have 'it' in him.
 
#15
Bagley is like a Carl Landry. He is a big that can score and could probably be a sixth-man on a good team that needs some scoring off the bench.

He does not help the team significantly as currently constructed, you know, the worst defense ever.
Sorta agree with this - but...Bagley could still get a lot better, on offense and defense. Young bigs take awhile. But they gotta want it. And it’s hard to tell if it is ever going to click for him to play with physicality on D. He’s a conundrum and he is talented.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#16
Carl Landry came into the league when he was 24 (two years older than Marvin is now in his third season in the league) and was probably 6'8" at best with middling athleticism.

Marvin is 6'10"/6'11" with superb athleticism and still young/has had his development derailed by injuries/Luke Walton. I know we're all still disappointed about the circumstances of him being drafted but come on now.
 
#17
Bagley is like a Carl Landry. He is a big that can score and could probably be a sixth-man on a good team that needs some scoring off the bench.

He does not help the team significantly as currently constructed, you know, the worst defense ever.
Bagley had the highest +/- on the team last night. The Kings held the Pacers to 93 pts when they had scored 141 and 152 in their previous two games. If Bagley is the worst defensive player on the worst defensive team in history, last nights game probably isn't the one to stake your argument on.
 

dude12

Hall of Famer
#18
I think some of the evaluations here on Marvin’s offense has been set in stone with an unwillingness to budge. He’s not stopping the ball, he’s moving the ball within the offense when asked too, he’s improved his 3 point shot, he’s not really a true post up guy but can, he’s a face up guy who can some guys off the dribble, runs the floor.

He straight up would be better with a bette4 coach. You match him up with certain players. Offensive talent is good. He’s getting better overall......is it worth keeping him at the salary? Big question
 
#19
Bagley had the highest +/- on the team last night. The Kings held the Pacers to 93 pts when they had scored 141 and 152 in their previous two games. If Bagley is the worst defensive player on the worst defensive team in history, last nights game probably isn't the one to stake your argument on.
The kings didnt hold the pacers to 93 points the pacers did it to themselves. They took the night off.
 
#20
Bagleys post scoring and rebounding potential have never been called into question. Good for Bagley for coming back and putting up good numbers, but at the end of the day he still can’t shoot, defend, or pass. I’m not sure how valuable that skill set is in the NBA (see Jahlil Okafor) and I still don’t think he is worth valuing as a key piece going forward. He could be a nice bench big though.
Bagley shoots 35 percent from 3 and he shoots fairly often from three as well. He averages a three point make per game and isn’t afraid to let it fly. Thats a far cry from “can’t shoot”. That’s actually a part of his game that one can expect to continue to improve and it’s something he’ll continue to do more of each season. He shot well from the perimeter in college as well.

He’s a completely different player from Jahlil Okafor in style, ability, and athleticism.

Okafor lacks value not exclusively because people don’t care for paint scorers(in which he is actually very dominant when given minutes) it’s because he can’t keep up with the action vs most matchups.

I have little doubt Bagley will be a reliable scorer in both the paint and perimeter. The question is and has always been will he be able to put the rest of his game together outside of scoring to make him a true valuable player/star and not just a “buckets” player and rich mans Maurice Speights. He also needs to stop having these random injuries and put together a season.
 
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#21
let him develop. Geez, he's had some unfortunate injuries, it's not like his knees suck. I see someone talented that's willing to learn and put in the work at both ends. You guys need to be more patient, Kings need all the talent they can get.

Just dumping him or trading him now is the ultimate Kangs move, just to save a few bucks. The Kings are in no position to not take risks like that.
 
#22
My opinion of him remains the same. I think he is a good player who would probably be best served with a change of scenery. He needs to be paired with a stud defensive player on a team that needs a high volume offensive player.

The Kings need a defensive stud at the 4 who doesn’t need the ball to make an impact. That’s how I see it anyway. Injuries will be a concern until we see otherwise.

I will say, with Fox, Haliburton and Barnes out we may get to see more of what Bags can do and maybe this last game will serve as a springboard for him.
 
#23
I didn’t get to watch the Pacers game last night. But it looks like Bagley had a great game. I was just wondering if some of those that talked down Bagley in this forum feel differently about him now?
It seems like a few weeks ago people in this forum were saying he was only worth a second round pick.
I’m thinking if he was in the draft now he’d be, oh say about a number 3 pick overall. I think he’s a very valuable guy to have on the team. Let’s just hope he can stay uninjured/healthy for a while. Maybe the coach just used him differently last night with Fox, Barnes, and Haliburton out? I’m guessing his defensive play is still poor?
What do you guys think? Has his stock changed now that he’s back and playing well?
3 coke machines.
 
#24
Carl Landry came into the league when he was 24 (two years older than Marvin is now in his third season in the league) and was probably 6'8" at best with middling athleticism.

Marvin is 6'10"/6'11" with superb athleticism and still young/has had his development derailed by injuries/Luke Walton. I know we're all still disappointed about the circumstances of him being drafted but come on now.
I don't care about the drft circumstances.

Obviously they are not the same height. I said he is a talented offensive player, to this day in his "development"(as you call it) he hasn't shown anything else.

Yes, he still can improve, but I think what we see now is close to a finished product, a sixth-man scorer big (Carl Landry).

They are similar in their game, especially if Bagley does not use that "athleticism."
 
#25
He started getting more opportunity when the better options are sitting in the last ten games of a lost season against listless squads and organizations that want to lose.

Safe to say, this isn't going to change any GM's mind even though the fanbase might shift a little. Things always get a little wonky in these times among bad teams. Mo Bamba just followed a 22/15 game with a 19/15/4 block game. And should I even mention Josh Jackson's last 20 games in his rookie year?

We've even see this from time to time with our own prospects (Skal).
 

HndsmCelt

Hall of Famer
#26
I have been fairly critical of Marvin all along and am still not sold on him, but I have to say give the guy a break. He is a 22 year old player who played 62 games his first season, 20 his second and about 20 this year. That is a sample size of about 100 games! Maybe he is made of glass and can't stay on the court? maybe h has turned a corner and is starting to show who he really is out there, but what I am saying is at this point no one, and I mean no one knows for sure what kind of player he will be, and the best bet is to watch close next season and be smart before making an offer or deciding to let him walk. As a long time fan I can say that one of the most persistent and pervasive problems GM's have had is loosing talent.
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SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#27
Bagley is like a Carl Landry. He is a big that can score and could probably be a sixth-man on a good team that needs some scoring off the bench.

He does not help the team significantly as currently constructed, you know, the worst defense ever.
Nah. He's bigger and puts up legit numbers. Carl was for all intents and purposes a post scorer spot shooter that didn't rebound at even a marginal level but was so skilled at the two scoring abilities he had that he was a crazy efficient point producer. We have to see Bagley used in basically the same role Holmes is in before contemplating what he is for sure. His ability to board and score makes him starter material alone.
 
#28
I didn’t get to watch the Pacers game last night. But it looks like Bagley had a great game. I was just wondering if some of those that talked down Bagley in this forum feel differently about him now?
It seems like a few weeks ago people in this forum were saying he was only worth a second round pick.
I’m thinking if he was in the draft now he’d be, oh say about a number 3 pick overall
You’re seriously asking KINGS fans if anything is different after ONE game? For real?

Would you ask Hawks or Mavs fans if they’d changed their mind on Trae Young or #77 being good players after one really poor game?

One game is meaningless. Any player can play a great game here or there.

On the whole, Marvin Bagley is a 14/7 guy that in 3 seasons cannot stay healthy. He’s barely played in 1/2 of all KINGS games since being drafted.

Until he can show up to play most days and play at a higher level than he’s consistently shown to this point — not many fans are going to feel differently. Nor should they.
 
#29
Once a person decides they don't like something, it's hard to change their minds. They'll look for things to validate their feelings.

Marvin was 1st team All NBA Rookie, but people convinced themselves that he never measured up to any of the other draft picks that year and shouldn't have been in the top 5. People say he's not worth it because he's always hurt, but would take JJJ in a heartbeat. JJJ has only played 4 more games than Marvin in his career because of injury.

People claim Marvin is not a hard worker and that he went to AZ and did nothing. Walton today said Marvin was in great shape when he came back to the team and passed all of their conditioning tests. Walton also said that Marvin has the tools to be a good defender and is making the progressions they are looking for on defense.

The stats and facts aren't going sway people. It's going to have to be something emotional. A game winning shot or something of that nature.
 
#30
I think Bagley has looked like a different player since he got back from his injury. He looks bigger physically and has a lot more energy on the court. It's nice to see. We have him under contract next year. That is starting to look like a good thing. Let's see if he keeps on the same path going forward. If he continues next season I would offer him a very incentive driven contract. I'd be wary he could be one of those contract year players.

I have to say I'm fed up with the Buddy Hield haters on this board. The guy plays lights out! He is a leader on the court. Plays every game and people talk crap about him. Sickening really!

I am really surprised at the energy of this team through the last 4 games. I mean what has happened? Why dont they play like this all year? Really fun to watch this kind of energy from the Kings!