Back-up point guards

jcassio

jcassio

Starter
#1
#1
So who will be the Kings back-up point guard this season???

Let's assume (for the moment) that Mike Bibby will at least start the season as the Kings starting point guard. With Ronnie Price gone, who will be the back-up PG? At this point, we've got the undrafted rookie, Mustafa Shakur, and now the Kings have signed Orien Greene, who I think has 2 seasons of end-of-bench experience. (Don't know what happened with the expected Mike Wilks signing...) Yeah I know the standard line around here... 'No worries, the Kings have plenty of guys who can handle the ball.' Well, that works for the in-between minutes and the occasional game (missed by Bibby), but who will protect and distribute the ball for 30-35 minutes a game, night-after-night, if Bibby goes down? Douby? Cisco? Artest?
 
PurpleHaze

PurpleHaze

All-Star
#3
#3
I would not assume that Bibby will be a member of the Kings this season or finally get traded mid-season. If he's gone via trade or hurt the burden will fall on one or several players mentioned, plus any new PG acquired. I think Coach Theus will play Mike at SG a lot depending on match-ups, allowing him to do what he does best when on - shoot. During those times he will come off screens with someone like Cisco performing PG duty not unlike Doug Christie did so often in Kings heyday past. I keep hearing that Cleveland is fit to be tied over not getting Bibby at this late hour and that they're desperate not to lose out in the bidding to some other EC power for his services.
 
U

Unclebuck

G-League
#4
#4
As a pacers fan I can give you the lowdown on Orien Greene.

His defense is excellent, I mean really, really good. He is a star defensively. If he ever got 30 minutes per game and the refs got "used to his game" and therefore allowed him to play without calling a bunch of fouls - he could be the one of the very best backcourt defenders in the entire NBA. He is a difference maker both on the ball and in the team defensive concepts. He has an ability to steal the ball and yet is rarely out of position.

He also seems like a good guy, never caused the Pacers any problems off the court.

I really wanted Greene to play more minutes last season, I really liked his game. But then I'm a defense first kind of guy. But even I will admit there are two sides of the ball.

Offense: Orien struggles offensively. His shooting is poor borderline horrible, his ball handling is not good. He got called for carrying the ball several times last season, (although late in the year he seemed to have corrected that problem) He can make plays - by that I mean he isn't a terrible passer.

But I've saved the worst for last. He has horrible point guard skills, horrible point guard instincts and he has a horrible point guard IQ. He drove Rick Carlicle nuts last season (the few times he was allowed to play - even though we needed his defense in the worst sort of way) because he simply could not run the team - it was usually fairly ugly. So later in the year, he was used on occasion as a shooting guard - but then he isn't a good shooter - so that causes other problems.

As much as I love his defense and I truly do love his defense, Orien likely will never be more than a spot player. And by that I mean, he'll never excel as part of the regular 8-man rotation. But if you need a defensive specialist to come off the bench in spot minutes, then he can be effective.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#5
#5
One or the other of Shakur or Greene will get the backup minutes, or HOPEFULLY just 3rd string/emergency duty minutes (otherwise there are zero minutes for Douby in a make or break year). The other will likely be cut. Both guys have good size for the position. Neither can shoot. Shakur looked like he might be a solid creater in summer league, but then that's summer league. Not sure Greene ever showed much in the NBA other than a willingness to defend. Impossible to handicap. Hard to care enough to even try.
 
CruzDude

CruzDude

Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
#8
#8
My vote goes to Shakur. His 4 years under Lute Olsen as a PG gives him basic credibility. In summer league he averaged over 29 minutes, and when in brought the ball up every time. Good ball handler, great assists-to-turnovers ratio near 3:1, was 3rd in all of summer league in assists at 6.0, in top 10 in steals, can shoot-score when needed (19 pts in one game) and shot FT at 85%. But he did not shoot well in any game.

On the court he seems invisible. Doesn't make mistakes, is in the right spots and runs court really good, leading fast breaks. He is 6-3 and needs only to be more agressive. A pass first type of PG for a change. I see him on team in November.
 
HndsmCelt

HndsmCelt

Hall of Famer
#9
#9
Well last year when the Kings drafted Doubey the word was that they thought he could be converted to play PG. Unfortunatly there were not a lot of min for him anywhere much less at PG so it is still not clear if he can run the point. Of course with a whole new coaching staff it's anyones guess how much and where Doubey will play. Personally I would like to see him ge some long looks at PG during the season to see what he can do.
 
D

dude12

Hall of Famer
#10
#10
I see the reserve backcourt as Douby and Cisco with Salmons also playing at the same time. Douby will get his opportunities at running the offense unless he is matched up with a guy where he can't handle the offense. At that point I think you see Cisco and Salmons running it with Douby playing off the ball. Shakur and Greene probably are non-factors if either one makes the team.
 
beb0p

beb0p

Starter
#11
#11
I think Douby should be the backup. We didn't use a first round pick on a 6'3 shooting guard with average athleticism, y'all. Douby should get the backup mins until he proves he can't be a PG.
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#12
#12
PurpleHaze said:
I would not assume that Bibby will be a member of the Kings this season or finally get traded mid-season. If he's gone via trade or hurt the burden will fall on one or several players mentioned, plus any new PG acquired. I think Coach Theus will play Mike at SG a lot depending on match-ups, allowing him to do what he does best when on - shoot. During those times he will come off screens with someone like Cisco performing PG duty not unlike Doug Christie did so often in Kings heyday past. I keep hearing that Cleveland is fit to be tied over not getting Bibby at this late hour and that they're desperate not to lose out in the bidding to some other EC power for his services.
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If Theus plays Bibby at SG, then where is Martin playing?
 
PurpleHaze

PurpleHaze

All-Star
#13
#13
Kingster said:
If Theus plays Bibby at SG, then where is Martin playing?
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Small forward some and more of a mute point if Bibby's gone or even if Artest is traded. Apparently, Kevin's bulked up somewhat with weights - some say a lot. He's every inch of 6'7", pushing close to 6'8". If Peja can survive at SF for years in Sac I think Kevin can at least play the position. Obviously, Coach Theus will be tinkering with the line-up since he's got nothing to loose after last season, looking for any favorable match-ups.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#15
#15
If Theus plays 6'1" Mike at OG by clearing 6'7" stringbean Kevin out to SF, we should just save ourselves the trouble and can his *** right now. Hear Larry Brown is still looking for a job. ;)

Kevin's one of the purest OGs in the game. Very little ability to swing either way by game or build. Mike was able to swing to OG, kinda, back in the day. But it was because he basically switched positions with our OG (Doug).
 
beb0p

beb0p

Starter
#19
#19
PurpleHaze said:
I would not assume that Bibby will be a member of the Kings this season or finally get traded mid-season. If he's gone via trade or hurt the burden will fall on one or several players mentioned, plus any new PG acquired. I think Coach Theus will play Mike at SG a lot depending on match-ups, allowing him to do what he does best when on - shoot. During those times he will come off screens with someone like Cisco performing PG duty not unlike Doug Christie did so often in Kings heyday past. I keep hearing that Cleveland is fit to be tied over not getting Bibby at this late hour and that they're desperate not to lose out in the bidding to some other EC power for his services.
Click to expand...
I don't think Bibby will actually play some SG per se, but I do see him giving up the ball more to Miller or Artest to be the distributors while he plays w/o the ball. In effect, playing like a combo guard, similar to back in the glory years.
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#20
#20
jcassio said:
So who will be the Kings back-up point guard this season???

Let's assume (for the moment) that Mike Bibby will at least start the season as the Kings starting point guard. With Ronnie Price gone, who will be the back-up PG? At this point, we've got the undrafted rookie, Mustafa Shakur, and now the Kings have signed Orien Greene, who I think has 2 seasons of end-of-bench experience. (Don't know what happened with the expected Mike Wilks signing...) Yeah I know the standard line around here... 'No worries, the Kings have plenty of guys who can handle the ball.' Well, that works for the in-between minutes and the occasional game (missed by Bibby), but who will protect and distribute the ball for 30-35 minutes a game, night-after-night, if Bibby goes down? Douby? Cisco? Artest?
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I think you're confusing camp invitations with actual signings.
 
A

AriesMar27

Guest
#21
#21
PurpleHaze said:
They don't call it "Small Forward" for no reason. There's plenty of 6'7-6'8 SF's in the NBA. Artest is 6'7 but of course he's very wide and strong.
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yeah but martin is a twig... he would most likely be the lightest small forward in the league... artest weighs almost as much as miller... lebron is like 240...
 
PurpleHaze

PurpleHaze

All-Star
#22
#22
AriesMar27 said:
yeah but martin is a twig... he would most likely be the lightest small forward in the league... artest weighs almost as much as miller... lebron is like 240...
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I agree mostly and I'm not promoting Kevin as the next Peja at SF for the Kings. Still, I've heard with the very dedicated weight program #23 is on he gained 15 lbs last year from his college days and this summer has added another 10 lbs or so. Maybe that makes him now around 215 but that's progress growing into his body a bit more. When Reggie Theus was playing in Sac he was listed at 6'7 and 205. He's really barely 6'6" and since I'm 6'5" and now over 50 at 225 lbs I'm not sure which one of us weighs more!:)
 
jcassio

jcassio

Starter
#24
#24
VF21 said:
I think you're confusing camp invitations with actual signings.
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Well thanks for clearing that up!

Actually, I realize that the contracts Shakur and Greene have been offered are only partially guaranteed, which of course means they have to compete for a roster spot in training camp. And I realize that it is possible that neither of them will get a spot, and even if one gets a spot, it may be #13.

I just thought the prospect of Bibby starting the season as our PG, and (currently) having only Shakur and Greene also listed as point guards... might lend to some interesting talk about who will protect and distribute the ball if/when Mike goes down.
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#25
#25
jcassio said:
Well thanks for clearing that up!

Actually, I realize that the contracts Shakur and Greene have been offered are only partially guaranteed, which of course means they have to compete for a roster spot in training camp. And I realize that it is possible that neither of them will get a spot, and even if one gets a spot, it may be #13.

I just thought the prospect of Bibby starting the season as our PG, and (currently) having only Shakur and Greene also listed as point guards... might lend to some interesting talk about who will protect and distribute the ball if/when Mike goes down.
Click to expand...
I agree it's an interesting topic; I just didn't want people panicking and thinking those guys had necessarily eaten up roster spots.
 
R

RunNGun

G-League
#29
#29
With Williamson gone (what is going on with him?) Garcia/Salmons will probly spend more minutes playing at the 3 instead of the 1 and 2 which will hopefully give Douby more time at the 2 or even the 1. With Miller/Hawes working as floor generals (ideally), Douby should be able to work as the backup PG. Just mostly as a shoot first PG. Not to mention that Artest can bring the ball up the court just about at well as anyone.

Also is it just me or do people underestimate Salmons' defense when he's playing the 1. I was amazed at his ability to lock down Nash toward the end of last season.
 
D

dude12

Hall of Famer
#30
#30
RunNGun said:
Also is it just me or do people underestimate Salmons' defense when he's playing the 1. I was amazed at his ability to lock down Nash toward the end of last season.
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As I was saying in another thread, Salmons is a solid player. His ability to play 3 positions and defend at 3 positions makes him a nice guy to have. A similar player to Cisco.
 
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