[ATL/BOS] The rivalry continues...

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6th said:
The very definition of "fair weather fans" is that they show up and want to be a part of a winning team. When the team is losing they are nowhere to be found. I can't say that Bibby is wrong.
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I'm just saying that I think if a fan doesn't go to games when his team is struggling to win 30 games, that doesn't necessarily make him a fair weather fan. Maybe he's protesting his team's inept decision making by not supporting them monetarily. You have to remember that Danny Ainge was widely considered to be running that team into the ground up until this summer.

There are a few Kings fans who are members of this board, but have pledged not to go to another game until the front office commits to being competitive. I wouldn't call them fair weather fans.

Now, the bandwagon always grows dramatically when you have a turnaround like the Celtics had this season. I saw it here in LA when the Lakers started winning titles. There are a good number of bandwagon / fair weather fans in the mix there, but I don't think it's completely fair to criticize those fans who have been following and supporting a team for decades (which pretty accurately describes a good portion of Celtics and Laker fans) because they refused to spend money on a poorly designed product, and now have gotten behind their team as the decision makers begin to put together a much improved product.

It's like if you always go see a particular actors movies because he always puts out a good movie. Then he starts putting out crap for a couple of years, and you decide not to continue supporting him until he starts putting out better movies. When his movies improve and you start going to see them again, does that make you a bandwagon or fair weather fan? I'd say no.
 
Who thinks the NBA would still be around if there were no bandwagon fans? Not me. They subsidize the league. Of course there are going to be people that are more excited and involved when the team wins. Just like successfull people always have friends that are only around because of thier success.

A fan is a fan, no matter how fanatical they may get. It is a pet peeve of mine when someone questions someone else's "fanship". It seems more like an ego thing, "I have been a fan for 15 years and now all these noobs are coming around". If it makes you feel better to put someone else down, so be it. If you call yourself a fan, that is good enough for me, who am I to judge? Shouldn't any teams fan base want their team to get more fans? The more noise and energy at home games the better, no?

I did suggest that we do not go down this path, to no avail.
 
Fair weather as an adjective:

2. Present and dependable only in good times: fair-weather friends

Comes from a description of sailors who only want to sail under favorable conditions.

Basically, 6th is right. There is a very definitive meaning to the term "fair weather." It means not supportive or around when times are tough or down. If the show fits, wear it. You don't have to take it as an insult, but just a descriptive.

I understand that some people are boycotting, but I wonder how helping your team lose money is going to improve them? Or what if attendance falls off so badly that the team has to move? As long as potential negative outcomes of low attendance don't worry a person, go for it.
 
kennadog said:
Fair weather as an adjective:

2. Present and dependable only in good times: fair-weather friends

Comes from a description of sailors who only want to sail under favorable conditions.

Basically, 6th is right. There is a very definitive meaning to the term "fair weather." It means not supportive or around when times are tough or down. If the show fits, wear it. You don't have to take it as an insult, but just a descriptive.

I understand that some people are boycotting, but I wonder how helping your team lose money is going to improve them? Or what if attendance falls off so badly that the team has to move? As long as potential negative outcomes of low attendance don't worry a person, go for it.
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I think it's a demeaning description that is unfairly applied to people who don't want to show support for a team that is following a plan that they don't agree with. Some people are only there for the good times, and never for the bad. They only come around as the team does good, then go support the next hot item once their team begins to decline.

Some people are willing to pony up the cash to see a 66 win team in the playoffs, but aren't for a team that struggles to win 30 and has been getting progressively worse year after year. Especially when the GM is making poor decisions that have no logic behind them, like Danny Ainge before last summer. What's remarkable is that many of those fans have followed the team for many years, have Celtics gear, still watch all the games they can, still love the team, but can't justify spending money on a damaged product.

Again, there are a lot of bandwagoners who are only along for the ride, have never really been Celtics fans, have no ties to the region, but are claiming their allegiance to the team because they want to be associated with a winner. Happens all the time when a team goes from worst to first. That happened in the '90s with the Bulls, happened again with the Kobe/Shaq Lakers, happened with the Troy Aikman Cowboys, etc.

But I disagree with the notion that the Garden is full of bandwagonning, fair weather fans who only support the team during good times. And the reason I disagree is because they are the Boston Celtics, a team with a very dedicated fan base and a lot of history that doesn't go away after a few losing seasons.

I mean, I know what the definition is, but I don't really think that applies to most Celtic fans. I think it's unnecessarily demeaning and it ignores all the other variables that are in play here.

By the way, I've never been a Boston "Anything" fan, and I hate the Patriots. I just think if you're going to talk about fair-weather, bandwagon fans, Boston is the wrong city to bring that argument to.
 
Boston does have the Patriots, Redsox, etc which make a Sac comparisson unfair. They have other choices aside from Basketball. It would make sense that the franchise that is doing the most successfull this season would get more of Bostons sportgoing dollars.
 
Kingzrool said:
It would make sense that the franchise that is doing the most successfull this season would get more of Bostons sportgoing dollars.
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Which this year happens to be all of them. :)

Boston is a pretty unique town, there are ~62 universities and colleges there so there is an extremely transient population which brings in a good chunk of the money. The die hard fans are more from the surrounding Boston suburbs which are largely blue collar. A lot of those people just can't justify the high ticket prices for a mediocre product, but maybe you take out a second mortgage to see the Celts finally get sweet #17 or the Sox reverse the curse.

I think anyone who criticizes Boston fans wasn't there during the lean years to see the enthusiasm for the team in the pubs and around the watercoolers even when the Garden wasn't selling out.
 
Superman said:
By the way, I've never been a Boston "Anything" fan, and I hate the Patriots. I just think if you're going to talk about fair-weather, bandwagon fans, Boston is the wrong city to bring that argument to.
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I wasn't commenting on the Boston fans, only on the notion of "fair weather." I'm sure every team in every sport has some fair-weather fans.

I'm still not convinced that staying away from the games will actually help improve a team.
 
Kingzrool said:
Who thinks the NBA would still be around if there were no bandwagon fans? Not me. They subsidize the league. Of course there are going to be people that are more excited and involved when the team wins. Just like successfull people always have friends that are only around because of thier success.

A fan is a fan, no matter how fanatical they may get. It is a pet peeve of mine when someone questions someone else's "fanship". It seems more like an ego thing, "I have been a fan for 15 years and now all these noobs are coming around". If it makes you feel better to put someone else down, so be it. If you call yourself a fan, that is good enough for me, who am I to judge? Shouldn't any teams fan base want their team to get more fans? The more noise and energy at home games the better, no?

I did suggest that we do not go down this path, to no avail.
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great post - couldn't agree more
 
Warhawk said:
According to a Hawks source, the veteran point guard purposely made the incendiary comments to take the pressure off his very young teammates. Asked during a private moment before the game if such was the case, Bibby smiled and winked.
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I knew this media-generated excuse would come up sooner or later. I'm guessing that Josh Childress didn't feel too much pressure when he said that his Hawks could definitely compete with the Boston Celtics and even pull the upset.

Looks like Mike should focus more on why he's being outplayed by his very young opponent, Rajon Rondo.
 
Mike Bibby, apparently, needs a refresher in staying away from the media. Maybe he and Reggie could sign up for the same summer course...

As far as the whole fair-weather fan discussion goes, this has actually been pretty civil, possibly because we're talking about Boston and not anywhere closer. ;)

I don't know about anyone else, of course, but I tend to think of the "fair weather (or bandwagon) fan" as someone who is just there to be seen as a "fan," not because they actually care about the team or the game. They want to be part of the "winning team" but just for the group picture so they can say they were there. That's the type of "fan" that irritates the crap out of me...

Anyway, Bibby's intentions notwithstanding, his comments did exactly the opposite of what he may or may not have intended. It gave the Boston fans ANOTHER reason to exhort their team to do good. That's something you never want to do and Mike should have known that, having played in Arco all those years.
 
I kind of think "fair weather" and "bandwagon" are two separate groups. Fair weather fans are far more benign, they stick to one team with varying degrees of interest. Bandwagonners are the annoying ones that change teams each year. The most annoying of these try to play it off as they are long term fans and get in your face when "their team" wins. And nothing is worse than when this last bunch jumps on your team's bandwagon and sullies the reputation of the true fans.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
I kind of think "fair weather" and "bandwagon" are two separate groups. Fair weather fans are far more benign, they stick to one team with varying degrees of interest. Bandwagonners are the annoying ones that change teams each year. The most annoying of these try to play it off as they are long term fans and get in your face when "their team" wins. And nothing is worse than when this last bunch jumps on your team's bandwagon and sullies the reputation of the true fans.
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Agreed. Fair weather fans just follow one team, but interest waxes and wanes over time. Bandwagoners jump from team to team as teams have cycles of success.

Now, what do you call fans who, like me, are Kings fans but choose another team or two to follow in the PO when yours isn't in the mix? Fans by proxy? Temporary fans? PO bandwagoners? :p
 
Warhawk said:
Now, what do you call fans who, like me, are Kings fans but choose another team or two to follow in the PO when yours isn't in the mix? Fans by proxy? Temporary fans? PO bandwagoners? :p
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I'd call you a fan of the game. Unless you suddenly stock up on your adopted team's gear and tell all your friends how awesome the are.

Personally, I've pretty much always had two teams I root for in every sport... and when those go out I root for the underdog or a team with a player I feel is deserving or the team that's playing my team's rival. Pretty much any sport gets me swept up in the post season no matter who is playing.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
I kind of think "fair weather" and "bandwagon" are two separate groups. Fair weather fans are far more benign, they stick to one team with varying degrees of interest. Bandwagonners are the annoying ones that change teams each year. The most annoying of these try to play it off as they are long term fans and get in your face when "their team" wins. And nothing is worse than when this last bunch jumps on your team's bandwagon and sullies the reputation of the true fans.
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Good points. I agree with the distinction ... and the annoyance level.

:)
 
Warhawk said:
Agreed. Fair weather fans just follow one team, but interest waxes and wanes over time. Bandwagoners jump from team to team as teams have cycles of success.

Now, what do you call fans who, like me, are Kings fans but choose another team or two to follow in the PO when yours isn't in the mix? Fans by proxy? Temporary fans? PO bandwagoners? :p
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It depends. The way I understand "The Book" if you choose to support a team in a competition after your team has been eliminated and you can claim some sort of connection between the two (for example, ex-coach like RA at Houston) or you choose a team that is playing against your mortal enemy (i.e. Denver) - you're in the clear. You're still loyal one team fan (Kings fan in our case).
 
All I know is that I went to the Boston game this year at Arco and the Celtics fans were obnoxious. I wanted to ask them where in the heck they were last year. I liked Boston as a feel good turnaround story this year, but they've been looking arrogant in the playoffs so far, if you ask me.
 
I call back to the OP: who the hell taught Woodson how to make substitutions? Why did he take Tito Jr. out when he was killing?
 
bibby did much better tonight, forced some shots but thats bibby .. he played well enough to win.

I dont see how the hawks could possibly win a game in boston though .. I am having fun watching though, living in boston obviously, but getting to see bibby play again is nice .. even if hasnt been playing well till now.


my two cents on bibbys comments: Personally, i enjoyed watching the celtics young talent last year .. so i watched even when they lost all those games in a row, and tony allen go down. but thats me .. on a general basis its not like they didnt sell tickets last year, they did .. not sell outs every game but the attendence wasnt bad, i think if this happened to another team ( sadly, sacramento included ( sure to get some heat for that comment )) then bibbys comments would have made more sense..
 
Yeah, I was happy for Bibby tonight, and for the rest of the Hawks. Their last playoff win was so long ago that none of the current roster had even applied for the NBA draft yet. I'm sure that not getting swept means almost as much to them as getting into the playoffs in the first place.
 
well, it was surprising for me as well to see the hawks steal one game. what i really wanted to see and unless some real strange things occur is very unlikely, was what the wizards would do against the celtics. the normal season games were quite a surprise. and i somewhat hope that the celtics will hit a slump somewhere during these games and get eliminated before they and their unbearable fans can do something about it.
 
Heuge said:
Where I am at, I cannot view the link. What is it?
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Well probably someone who you can consider both "fairweather" and "bandwaggoner"... a guy who is yelling on the cell phone talking with his friend who is also somewhere in the stands and the guy is trying to show him where he is so he keeps waving, yelling and being annoying for almost a minute, while the game is in progress. Basically, an idiot.
 
How exciting this one is! Hawks lead by 6 with 26 sec to go in the game. The Celtics are taking their last time out.
 
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