Artest trade stuff HERE!! (merged)

Bricklayer said:
If the Lakers pull that off...well welcome to a new L.A. nightmare Sacto fans.
thing is....if the lakers are willing to do it...and it really comes down to whether theyre willing to let go of bynum or not....then i think the other 2 would do it also...

indy would prefer to get bynum and maybe send harrison to toronto...but toronto probably doesnt do it unless they get bynum...

indy might be able to weasel one of the later first rounders the raptors have....

i could really see it going down....ive said all along...i thought the lakers would get artest...because i think phil wants him more than anyone else....
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Think the Pacers are getting severely ripped if it happens, but we'll see. Found this quote particularly ridiculous: "Basically, it's Artest for Devean George..." :eek: :eek:

No idea of the reliability of the site either of course.
 
Devean George? That's the best Indy could get? Color me non-plussed. How the heck does Kupchak pull off something like that? George, a guy who is best known for mediocre three point range, a talent that is in no way equaled or exceeded by Peja. What does Petrie do all day? I want a copy of his schedule.
 
Bricklayer said:
Think the Pacers are getting severely ripped if it happens, but we'll see. Found this quote particularly ridiculous: "Basically, it's Artest for Devean George..." :eek: :eek:

No idea of the reliability of the site either of course.
agreed...i dont know how reliable it is either....thats why i said...probably bogus...

but the pacers cant trade cro and artest and the main piece be george....between the two of them they make over 15 million...george is making 5 million...

ive said before, george does make some sense....hes expiring...hes experienced....and would be a decent complement to granger, while granger develops this year....then at the end of the season, poof, hes gone...and money is saved....

kwame is the xfactor in this...but his contract isnt bad....and the pacers would be trading cros contract for kwames basically...and truth is, they could use kwame more than cro....kwames post defense looked pretty good against shaq on christmas....and i know that got some peoples attention....cause they would love to lighten jo's load....have someone to bang with him....and u just get the feeling JO would take kwame under his wing....theyve kinda been down the same road....

vujacic would be a nice addition....hes a young talent...he plays solid d, is a good shooter and has a bit of length, something we could use...

and then the miami pick....

walsh said hes looking for cap relief...george provides that...he said he doesnt want any bad contracts...there arent any...he said he wanted some young talent....kwame and sasha would fit that bill...he said he wanted draft picks....

it would pretty much fit the bill....

now will the pacers be as good??? nope...but then im resigned to the fact thats not possible, outside of a tmac trade...
 
This just doesn't make sense to me...seems like the Pacers could get more from the T-Wolves or in a multi-team deal involving the Nuggets. But with all "filler" being a bit mysterious, who knows?
 
It's looking like he'll go to Minny/Denver right now, and the last number of days. Clippers/Warriors stuff seems to of weakened due to roster changes.

As far as that LA story goes, I don't buy it (no Laker-dislike or anything like that involved, either). There are simply better deals.
 
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id agree with the denver comment...but not really the minny one...

its gonna come down to the lakers and denver....

and not that it matters, but way back when this all started i said lakers....

and still think that...

i simply think phil wants him more than anyone else....with kobe being a close 2nd...

and what phil and kobe want, they usually get....
 
Grant just said that Minny is persuing Artest and McHale wants him. KG didn't seem that happy about it. I don't know his (KG's) exact quote, but it was something like "I don't have control over how things go down here, until next summer."
 
hoops4kings said:
Grant just said that Minny is persuing Artest and McHale wants him. KG didn't seem that happy about it. I don't know his (KG's) exact quote, but it was something like "I don't have control over how things go down here, until next summer."
I saw KG's quote also, and you're right...he was clearly not pleased about the idea. That's GOOD. Send Artest to Minny...make KG even more disgruntled, then do whatever it takes to get him here!

;)
 
David Aldridge on TNT just said Minny said "You (Indy) can have anyone on our roster but KG". Reggie saying "Indy isn't going to just give him away.". Aldridge also said about Denver when they went to 'Melo about Artest "Absolutely, do anything to get him in here".
 
B

Bonzinator

Guest
why the hell would the pacers trade the best smallforward in the league for devean george who is nothing but a waste of space.
 
foretaz said:
kwame is the xfactor in this...but his contract isnt bad....and the pacers would be trading cros contract for kwames basically...
A couple days ago, Devean George started for the 2nd time this year and played 1 minute under his career high. Supposedly, some of the other particulars from Toronto and Indiana played bigger minutes than usual last night. Coincidence?

Did you see Kwame face Shaq on Christmas? Not saying Kwame was the cause for it, but Shaq went about 0-8 on anything that wasn't a dunk or layup. How concerned are the Pacers about finding another big to defend Shaq in the playoffs?
 
D-Mass said:
This just doesn't make sense to me...seems like the Pacers could get more from the T-Wolves or in a multi-team deal involving the Nuggets. But with all "filler" being a bit mysterious, who knows?
Unless they want to bank on a young big who just had a major knee injury, if they want a big in return they are relegated to either Olowokandi or Kwame (should the Vescey-approved rumor about Odom being offered prove false). There is a rumor going around by some higher ups around the league that Kwame is a decent post defender. I don't even want to hear the rumors about Olowokandi in the same circles...
 
LA Times - Trading for Indiana Pacer forward Ron Artest would either be a smart move or huge mistake for the Clippers.

The Pacers would want Maggette, whom the Clippers have declined to include in trade proposals.

Dunleavy and General Manager Elgin Baylor are fond of hard-working Maggette, whose scoring average increased his first six seasons in the NBA. Dunleavy and Baylor declined to comment on trade talks, but they have rejected offers for Maggette and second-year point guard Shaun Livingston, Clipper sources said.

"With nine out of 11 at home, we're at the stretch of the schedule we were pointing to all year long," Dunleavy said. "You never want to have injuries, and we hoped we would be totally healthy now, but everybody has injuries.

"If you make a move now, that you make because of injuries, you're making it out of desperation or panic. In my opinion, the only move we make has to be a move that we'd make without the injuries, because we have a lot of guys with a lot of upside."
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/38514/20051231/clippers_still_denying_indiana_maggette_or_livingston/



ESPN - Golden State might actually have more pieces to deal directly with Indiana than any active suitor ... barring a change of heart from Jerry West in Memphis and an 11th-hour willingness to part with Shane Battier.

The Warriors also have a GM known for dice-rolling; just go back to last February's trade deadline when Chris Mullin was willing to take on Baron Davis in spite of a contract and health history that scared many teams off.

One sticking point here: Indiana would undoubtedly want Ike Diogu (see Box 2) as part of any package, and the rookie bruiser is approaching untouchable status already.
With IKE, as been said. :)

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/38511/20051231/diogu_becoming_close_to_untouchable_in_artest_scenarios/


ESPN - Minnesota is offering Indiana anyone on its roster not named Kevin Garnett in the hope of pairing Artest with KG. That's because the Wolves are as desperate as the Lakers to make a splashy move -- in their case to keep KG energized and confident in the club's direction -- and because they see KG and Artest (assuming Ron-Ron could actually be counted on) as a devastating combo.

If Artest wants to score more, as stated in his original trade demand, Garnett is unselfish enough to make that happen. And if Artest is ever going to defer to a teammate, KG also (theoretically) has the juice and presence to make that happen. The Wolves, though, have been trying to pull a third team into the mix to better their chances of assembling a package Indy likes.
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/38512/20051231/anyone_but_kg_for_artest_from_minnesota/
 
Indianapolis Star - They've talked about their recent discouraging play. They've tried to rally around each other. They've tried to pick up each other.
None of that has worked for the Indiana Pacers in a four-game losing streak.
The Pacers went 6-7 in December, their first losing month since last January, and their 15-12 record doesn't put much fear into opponents.
"As a group, we have to stop saying we have to do something and do it," rookie Sarunas Jasikevicius said.
The Pacers get a chance to end their losing streak tonight when they host the Seattle SuperSonics at Conseco Fieldhouse before starting a four-game Western trip. The Pacers play six of their next nine games on the road.
"We're not focusing in," forward Jermaine O'Neal said. "That's all of us: the staff, the coaching staff, the players, all of us."
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/38528/20060102/pacers_losing_focus_amid_artest_trade_talk/

In the last game, Pacers gave up a mid-teen lead to the Raptors, and Toronto came back and won. Led by Mike James/Bosh/Villanueva/Mo Pete, was a good win for them. I was surprised and disappointed.

Can't see them losing to the Sonics tonight.
 
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Oklahoman - While Hornets coaches and general manager Jeff Bower have been noncommittal about acquiring him, owner George Shinn is apparently interested in acquiring Ron Artest.

Artest has stated he wanted to be traded then said he didn't want to be traded. Artest has been inactive since Dec. 6 and has been constantly rumored to be going somewhere. Artest was suspended for almost all of last season after charging into the stands during a game.

He played in just seven games last season. "The guy is talented,'' Shinn said. "We're talking, like a lot of teams are. We've thrown some stuff out to see what might happen, but I wouldn't say we're being aggressive about it.''
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/38532/20060102/hornets_owner_interested_in_artest/

Paul/Smith/Artest/West/Brown would be quite a fun line-up, even more than now. Hornets do have quite a bit of talent also, but I don't see him going there.
 
NY Post - Indiana may make a decision based on the luxury tax and salary cap relief in the impending trade of Ron Artest. This would give teams a chance to make an acceptable bid of expiring contracts, picks, etc. The Pacers could pursue Latrell Sprewell to fill their need for a wing player if indeed they opt for a deal motivated by financial planning.

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/38547/20060103/indiana_may_want_cap_relief/


NY Post - Pete Vescey says he has a source who tells him that the Clippers are tapping Sam Cassell to try to lure Latrell Sprewell to L.A.

Cassell played with Sprewell in Minnesota.

This is an alternative to parting with Corey Maggette to acquire Ron Artest in a 3-way deal that would send Maggette to Atlanta with Al Harrington going back to Indiana.
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/38545/20060103/clips_pursue_sprewell/
 
There's some chatter that GS may have won out w/ the Pietrus & Murphy rumor. Bucher reportedly said this on BSPN. Not 100% yet, but don't be surprised if that's where he goes.
 
i would be quite surprised to see murphy end up in a pacers uniform...hes a pf with a big contract...we already got an allstar pf with a max contract....bringing murphy in would force jo to center permanently, and i just dont see that happening...especially with as poor of a defender as murphy is....

now if they turned around and shipped murphy to atlanta, i could see it...especially if golden state gave thepacers taft as well...

the pacers would end up with taft, harrington and pietrus, for artest and foster....which probably would make a bit more sense....
 
I don't believe the Bucher Pietrus/Murphy rumor either.

St. Paul Pioneer Press - Word in Indianapolis is that Pacers executives Donnie Walsh and Larry Bird would prefer to trade enigmatic forward Ron Artest soon but will be remain cautious and could keep the 6-foot-7, 252-pounder on the inactive list all season if they can't get the right deal.

The Timberwolves have admitted they are interested in Artest, and Indiana considers Minnesota rookie guard Rashad McCants a special talent. But it's unlikely the Pacers would be willing to take a chance on Wolves forward Eddie Griffin, considering his questionable past.

People who know, though, say Artest is not the bad character he's reputed to be and that he simply acts before he thinks.
"Artest is a great guy and a poor teammate," said an acquaintance.
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/38548/20060103/mccants_is_liked_in_indiana/

I could def. see McCants being involved if Artest goes to Minny.
 
Interesting and objective piece on Artest from 82games.com

http://www.protrade.com/member/insi...=S/protrade/stories/analyst/roland+beech/&x=x

Is Artest worth the risk?
By Roland Beech

I'll be the first to admit, I never thought it would come to this. After his fiasco in 2004-05, I was convinced that we could expect a squeaky clean season for Pacers forward Ron Artest, where he'd display the full range of his impressive abilities on court while staying clear of trouble off it.

Heck, I even touted him as my MVP pick in a SI.com preseason survey (the world needs contrarians -- any master of the obvious can pick LeBron James). So, it was a shock to find that barely a month and a half into the season and with the Pacers playing reasonably well, Artest would elect to "go nuclear" and demand a trade.

Not surprisingly, the Pacers have zero patience with him at this point. They've ignored his later requests to rejoin the team and will deal him shortly, preferably to a Western Conference team.

Wow! Now that's a story!

The question is -- for the teams coveting him, is Artest worth the risk? Who or why would want to take on the challenge of managing the NBA's preeminent walking time bomb?


1) Artest the difference maker

First, we need to evaluate just what Artest can bring to the table. I like to start such analysis not by focusing on "conventional" box scores, but rather on the overall 'on court influence' a player exerts on his team's chances of winning. Since Artest's 04-05 campaign was, ahem, cut short, we'll need to also examine prior seasons.

Artest's On Court Influence
Season ON Court:
Net Pts per 100 possessions OFF Court:
Net Pts per 100 possessions On/Off Net
05-06* +10.5 -4.6 +15.1
04-05 +6.1 +0.3 +5.8
03-04 +9.4 +1.3 +8.1
02-03 +7.6 -2.6 +10.2
* As of 12/28 for the 05-06 season


Such are very impressive on/off court numbers. Artest ranked #13 in 03-04 and #10 in 02-03 for this particular stat, and he was headed towards another Top Ten campaign this season until he suddenly derailed it.

These are the raw looks, not adjusted for the other players present on the court-on his team and the opposition's. Artest shines in more sophisticated regression-based breakdowns as well, ranking #19 in Dan Rosenbaum's two-year study of 02-03 and 03-04 (see http://www.82games.com/comm30.htm)

So there's no doubt that Artest can improve a team's performance considerably. And that's one reason why Indiana fans should realize that for the second straight season, the Pacers have gone from serious contenders for the title to being in some trouble.

Conclusion: when he's playing, Artest will make a team better.


2) Artest on offense/on defense

Team influence numbers measure a player's role and 'fit' with a given roster rather than pure individual offensive production.

On that front, there exist any number of popular ways to break down box score-type data into ratings, including John Hollinger's intricate PER formula.

I'll take it one step further, calculating the PER rating of a player's counterpart while he was on court. This supposes that, if you're a point guard, I'll also consider how the opposing point guard fared when you were on the court.

The delta between the player's own PER and the counterpart PER is called the "PER Difference." The ratings are scaled such that a 15.0 is the league average, with higher numbers being better for your own stats, lower being better for the counterpart's.

Artest's PER Rating
Season PER Rating Counterpart PER PER Difference
05-06 19.7 12.1 +7.6
04-05 25.3 12.1 +13.2
03-04 18.9 11.2 +7.7


Artest's brilliant performance during his shortened 04-05 season certainly seems beyond his typical level, but it's clear both his own production and counterpart defense are excellent, making him a very, very good "PER Difference" player as well.


3) Other classic factors

True risk assessment would also look at many other factors, such as:

A player's age and likely improvement/decline over time: Artest is only 26 years old, not even quite at his prime age.

Durability/Injury history: Artest has never played more than 76 games in a season, appearing in 7, 73, 69, and 55 over the last four. This isn't mention the games he's missed this season. So while not necessarily injury-related, with Artest comes the risk of missed games.

Passion for the game: Once one of the Artest most passionate players in the league, clearly this label is diminishing. 'Extracurricular' activites -- like his music/rap "career" -- and his on court unpredictability color any current assessment of how much he "cares."

Artest is known for his physical play in a league where recent rule changes suggest it isn't wanted. Coupled with his reputation, he's is in danger of becoming the next Danny Fortson or Dennis Rodman -- guys referees love to whistle.

Contract: Here's a bright spot. Artest carries what can only be called a less than market-rate deal. According to the Hoopshype salaries (http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/indiana.htm) he's earning $6.5 million this season and stands to make $7.1 million in 06-07, and $7.8 million in 07-08. By today's NBA standards, if not for his baggage, he would be severely underpaid.

Trade Value: In the off-season, there's reason to believe a number of teams were trying to sway Larry Bird and Donnie Walsh into trading Artest. So the Pacers passed up several much better offers then they can manage now.

If Artest moves to another team only to blow up again, there's a good chance he could be suspended for a long chunk of time or even perhaps banned from the game entirely. At the same time, if he keeps it together, then his trade value will increase for the new team and they could in turn shop him at a gain.


4) Artest the "headache"

It really comes down to this -- why wouldn't you want a young, skilled, hard-working player in a bargain contract who makes a team's performance better?

In Artest's case, it's all personal. His personal, that is, as NBA teams are hesitant to invest millions in a player with his past.

If you're the San Antonio Spurs do you want Artest? No.

You already have a perimeter defensive specialist (Bowen), a "put your head down and drive to the basket" offensive bull in a china shop (Ginobili), endless leadership, and a fabulous bench.

If you're Detroit could you use him? No.

With the best five man unit and chemistry bar none, the Pistons, even though Artest seems born to be a 'bad boy' in Detroit, will pass.

Which teams could Artest help? All of the others.

Assuming he can stay out of trouble, he'd team up nicely with Kevin Garnett in Minnesota, bring defensive ferocity to a Clippers team that's shaping up, and run well alongside the Warriors' Baron Davis. Artest-Nowitzki?

The mind races at the possibilties for teams to tilt the balance of power. Is Artest worth the risk? To answer as literally as possible, you bet.
 
Denver Post - Earl Watson's boost in playing time and contribution to the Nuggets have pleased him. But he would like some closure to the trade rumors that have surrounded him nearly since the day he arrived this offseason.

"You always want resolution," he said Wednesday. "Being in limbo is kind of a challenge. But at the same time I believe everything happens for a reason."

A trade involving Watson and Nene with a third team for Indiana small forward Ron Artest appears dead, though the Nuggets continue to talk with the Pacers. They also continue to hear from teams on Watson's availability. Seattle remains interested in him, and Cleveland might be, too.

Watson has become a regular in coach George Karl's rotation, which he said makes the rumors easier to stomach.

"No one has come up to me and said the rumors was false," Watson said. "I feel like since that hasn't happened it has to be the obvious."

Nuggets general manager Kiki Vandeweghe would only say, "He is playing very well."

Denver continues to compete for Artest with Golden State, which could be offering Troy Murphy and draft picks; Minnesota (possibly for Michael Olowokandi and Rashad McCants); and Boston (possibly for Ricky Davis), among others.
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/38573/20060105/artest_to_nuggets_dead_watson_linked_to_sonics_cavs/