Artest to Knicks rumors won't die soon

[bajaden]

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/

August 04, 2007
Artest-to-Knicks rumors won't die anytime soon

As Las Vegas summer league came to a close in mid-July, Kings players gathered their belongings after a finale win over the Clippers and headed for the exits.

Among the last to leave was Daniel Artest, the younger brother of Ron Artest and a Kings summer league participant. The reason for his delay? He had been spotted by New York Knicks general manager Isiah Thomas, a longtime family friend and just the person whose ear Daniel wanted to bend.

They half-hugged and chatted for a moment when Daniel finally headed for the locker room.

"You campaigning to get Ron to New York," this reporter asked.

"You know it," Daniel said with a smile.

So long as the Knicks need help and Artest remains so far from his hometown team in the Big Apple, the chatter will continue about a possible homecoming. Nearly three weeks had passed since the last resurfacing of trade rumors until Friday, when ESPN writer Ric Bucher said during an on-line chat that he'd heard of a Kings-Knicks deal currently in the works.

But numerous sources said there's nothing doing at present, and the overall sense is that the Kings have never been close to what - in their estimation - would be giving Artest away. Jared Jeffries, for example, was a "centerpiece" of a proposal New York came the Kings' way with earlier in the summer, clearly meaning Thomas missed the memo stating that Kings exec Geoff Petrie is not as desperate to move Artest as once believed. And with the David Lee-types reportedly not available, the lone player of intrigue from the Kings' standpoint appears to be third-year point guard Nate Robinson. Otherwise, it's a blanket request gone unanswered for draft picks and expiring contracts as part of the Kings' rebuilding objective.

As the summer days have passed, Petrie appears to have bunkered down in his position, growing more and more stubborn and determined to improve the offers for Artest or point guard Mike Bibby. As Petrie knows, the desperation will eventually come - though not from him. Teams looking for that difference-maker to push them over the top next season will likely be more cooperative as the February trade deadline approaches. As leverage goes, the Kings are enjoying the luxury of operating under a long-term plan.

- Sam Amick

 

[kingzzzfan4ever]

Artest is going nowhere. He'll be with the team when the season starts. Enough with all these rumors!

 

[CruzDude]

Yep. Couldn't agree more. Drop it until NY says "Lee+expiring for Ron Ron". Even then I doubt it. Lee is a scoring version of Amundson and he didn't stick.

 

[Bricklayer]

You know, an interesting thing happens at the end of this month: the trade restriction on Fred Jones and Dan Dickau expires. And all of a sudden this becomes possible:

Ron Artest $7.8mil

for

Fred Jones $3.3mil (ender)
Dan Dickau $2.8mil (ender)
Nate Robinson $1.3mil (ender -- team option)
Renaldo Balkman $1.2mil (ender -- team option)
1st rnd pick

-- making sense of Bucher's rumor, and providing us with precisely the holy trinity of enders, picks and kids. A true rebuilding trade.


Questions I would have would be:
1) would Zeke give up 3 of his 4 backup PGs? If he did, it would be Nate I suppose -- I remain intrigued by Collins. Then again, likely so does Zeke, although Nate is the more proven backup. Crawford's ability to play some PG helps.
2) And if we picked up 3 PGs like that (whether the third be Nate or Collins), would that pave the way for a second deal involving Bibby?
3)Also, have lost track of what Zeke has already given away, so not sure when that 1st could come. Next year? Year after?
4) Nonetheless, ala Ainge with his youth, Zeke would have managed to turn Frye, Francis, Nate and Renaldo into Zach Randolph and Ron Artest, which ain't a bad haul. If one with a bad attitude. Bad Boys/brawling Knicks all over again.

And maybe, just mayeb, we could throw in a swap of KT or SAR for Malik Rose in as well -- shave a year off those contracts, and Rose is unquestionably a good guy. Of course beginning to add risk for the Knicks then with too many grumpy characters, or too many post players (all three of their starting frontcourt guys being post guys -- thick, physical, no scrawnies allowed, dominant inside, but too many get in each other's way).

 

[Bricklayer]

Lee is a scoring version of Amundson and he didn't stick.

Um...yes, but just no.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

You know, an interesting thing happens at the end of this month: the trade restriction on Fred Jones and Dan Dickau expires. And all of a sudden this becomes possible:

Ron Artest $7.8mil

for

Fred Jones $3.3mil (ender)
Dan Dickau $2.8mil (ender)
Nate Robinson $1.3mil (ender -- team option)
Renaldo Balkman $1.2mil (ender -- team option)
1st rnd pick

-- making sense of Bucher's rumor, and providing us with precisely the holy trinity of enders, picks and kids. A true rebuilding trade.


Questions I would have would be:
1) would Zeke give up 3 of his 4 backup PGs? If he did, it would be Nate I suppose -- I remain intrigued by Collins. Then again, likely so does Zeke, although Nate is the more proven backup. Crawford's ability to play some PG helps.
2) And if we picked up 3 PGs like that (whether the third be Nate or Collins), would that pave the way for a second deal involving Bibby?
3)Also, have lost track of what Zeke has already given away, so not sure when that 1st could come. Next year? Year after?
4) Nonetheless, ala Ainge with his youth, Zeke would have managed to turn Frye, Francis, Nate and Renaldo into Zach Randolph and Ron Artest, which ain't a bad haul. If one with a bad attitude. Bad Boys/brawling Knicks all over again.

And maybe, just mayeb, we could throw in a swap of KT or SAR for Malik Rose in as well -- shave a year off those contracts, and Rose is unquestionably a good guy. Of course beginning to add risk for the Knicks then with too many grumpy characters, or too many post players (all three of their starting frontcourt guys being post guys -- thick, physical, no scrawnies allowed, dominant inside, but too many get in each other's way).

that would be a tremendous score if we could get in on that trade.

 

[AriesMar27]

You know, an interesting thing happens at the end of this month: the trade restriction on Fred Jones and Dan Dickau expires. And all of a sudden this becomes possible:

Ron Artest $7.8mil

for

Fred Jones $3.3mil (ender)
Dan Dickau $2.8mil (ender)
Nate Robinson $1.3mil (ender -- team option)
Renaldo Balkman $1.2mil (ender -- team option)
1st rnd pick

-- making sense of Bucher's rumor, and providing us with precisely the holy trinity of enders, picks and kids. A true rebuilding trade.


Questions I would have would be:
1) would Zeke give up 3 of his 4 backup PGs? If he did, it would be Nate I suppose -- I remain intrigued by Collins. Then again, likely so does Zeke, although Nate is the more proven backup. Crawford's ability to play some PG helps.
2) And if we picked up 3 PGs like that (whether the third be Nate or Collins), would that pave the way for a second deal involving Bibby?
3)Also, have lost track of what Zeke has already given away, so not sure when that 1st could come. Next year? Year after?
4) Nonetheless, ala Ainge with his youth, Zeke would have managed to turn Frye, Francis, Nate and Renaldo into Zach Randolph and Ron Artest, which ain't a bad haul. If one with a bad attitude. Bad Boys/brawling Knicks all over again.

And maybe, just mayeb, we could throw in a swap of KT or SAR for Malik Rose in as well -- shave a year off those contracts, and Rose is unquestionably a good guy. Of course beginning to add risk for the Knicks then with too many grumpy characters, or too many post players (all three of their starting frontcourt guys being post guys -- thick, physical, no scrawnies allowed, dominant inside, but too many get in each other's way).

thats what i was thinking but id be down for artest for rose/pick straight up...

 

[Entity]

i wouldn't get my hopes up of a secondary Bibby trade. I would lean more to a buyout of Dikau and Nate/Collins and Shakur backup.

 

[Emma]

You know, an interesting thing happens at the end of this month: the trade restriction on Fred Jones and Dan Dickau expires. And all of a sudden this becomes possible:

Ron Artest $7.8mil

for

Fred Jones $3.3mil (ender)
Dan Dickau $2.8mil (ender)
Nate Robinson $1.3mil (ender -- team option)
Renaldo Balkman $1.2mil (ender -- team option)
1st rnd pick

-- making sense of Bucher's rumor, and providing us with precisely the holy trinity of enders, picks and kids. A true rebuilding trade.

This is what we would like to refer to as "The Perfect Storm". I would be excited if Geoff pulls this off! Trade perfection right there.

 

[Denio]

What ever happened to the Mike Wilks deal? Maybe at the end of the month Petrie is going to have a whole stable full of point guards. No need for Wilks..

 

[bajaden]

I agree with just about everything you said Bricky, except about Balkman. I just don't like the dude. I watched him play in every summer league game and I was not impressed. He has no outside game at all. He has no inside game except garbage. He' a decent athelete, but not exceptional. He's basicly just a hustle guy. He's only a decent defender, and had a dickens of a time trying to defend Caner-Medely, who by the way shut down Blakman when he was guarding him. If this trade goes down I would want Lee. He's a way more polished player and a lot bigger They have Balkman listed 6'8" and I doubt he's that tall.
My personal opinion is that Isiah doesn't want to trade Lee and would like to move Balkman in the deal. So he's been talking up Balkman. If I'm Petri, Its Lee or no deal. I'll live with Artest for another year.

 

[Bricklayer]

I agree with just about everything you said Bricky, except about Balkman. I just don't like the dude. I watched him play in every summer league game and I was not impressed. He has no outside game at all. He has no inside game except garbage. He' a decent athelete, but not exceptional. He's basicly just a hustle guy. He's only a decent defender, and had a dickens of a time trying to defend Caner-Medely, who by the way shut down Blakman when he was guarding him. If this trade goes down I would want Lee. He's a way more polished player and a lot bigger They have Balkman listed 6'8" and I doubt he's that tall.
My personal opinion is that Isiah doesn't want to trade Lee and would like to move Balkman in the deal. So he's been talking up Balkman. If I'm Petri, Its Lee or no deal. I'll live with Artest for another year.

Balkman may be "just a hustle guy". But he's a helluva hustle guy, and a true energizer bunny. New York being high on him is no hype. Never be an All Star, but he has a little of, and excuse the comparison, a young Dennis Rodman in him. Can play 2, 3, 4, great nose for the ball, and a very active rebounder for a SF type -- per48 last year the guy averaged 13.3rebs a game, which is a strong number even for a PF or C (Bosh and Yao were at 13.4 last year), and more than anybody on the Kings except Justin. You have to watch out for Zeke and his sleeper picks. I'd frankly be pretty excited to watch he and Cisco split the SF minutes next season. If nothing else we'd never lose a race to a loose ball, and our SFs would probably lead the team in both steals and blocks (just as an idea, Balkman in summer league went 27.4min 13.2pts 7.6rebs 2.2ast 2.2stl 1.8blk).

P.S. as an aside, you may be thinking of Hawes, not Caner-Medley? Caner Medley rebounded, but didn't have much of a game in that one for us otherwise. After struggling with Morris's physicality though, I think I remember Spenser getting most of his points over Balkman, who they had in there at PF/C. He's defintely too small for that duty. But if we put him there, then the sickness starts at the top for us and it doesn't matter who we pick up.

 

[CruzDude]

Just can't see Balkman in a Petrie team. Some D but no offense like Ron Ron and not the defeder Ron Ron is and can be.

Plus, of the 3 PGs which one is a starter quality?? Nate is same size (5-9) as Pooh Richardson and that doesn't fly in the west.

Dickau was drafted by the Kings in first place only to ship him to Hawks for some trade makeup. He's a 6-0 PG in league 5 yr but who is now with his 8th team in only 5 years! We want a vagabond like that??. He is not a solution.

Fred Jones I know little about. He is 6-2, drafted in 1st round by Pacers but has been to Raptors, Blazers and Knicks in only 5 years. Another bencher with no real PG qualities, apparently.

So don't see this kind of trade either. If Shakur makes it thru training camp, the Kings will get one more PG and everyone else is here come 31 October in New Orleans.

 

[Padrino]

Just can't see Balkman in a Petrie team. Some D but no offense like Ron Ron and not the defeder Ron Ron is and can be.

Plus, of the 3 PGs which one is a starter quality?? Nate is same size (5-9) as Pooh Richardson and that doesn't fly in the west.

Dickau was drafted by the Kings in first place only to ship him to Hawks for some trade makeup. He's a 6-0 PG in league 5 yr but who is now with his 8th team in only 5 years! We want a vagabond like that??. He is not a solution.

Fred Jones I know little about. He is 6-2, drafted in 1st round by Pacers but has been to Raptors, Blazers and Knicks in only 5 years. Another bencher with no real PG qualities, apparently.

So don't see this kind of trade either. If Shakur makes it thru training camp, the Kings will get one more PG and everyone else is here come 31 October in New Orleans.

to the kings, dickau and jones would represent ending contracts. nothing more, nothing less.

 

[SacKings7]

to the kings, dickau and jones would represent ending contracts. nothing more, nothing less.

Yeah. Not sure what our roster count would be after that trade, but we would definitely have to waive 1 or 2 of those players. Which would be fine since they are expiring anyway.

 

[VF21]

Waive them or not, we'd still have to pay them for this season. I don't see that happening.

 

[Bricklayer]

Waive them or not, we'd still have to pay them for this season. I don't see that happening.

But why not really?

You are paying for exactly the same amount of $$ right now. Its the same illisuon there was with the Webber trade, only in reverse. $20million in 1 player is no different than $20 million in 3. And in this case $7.5million in 4 players is the same as $7.5mil in 1. Keeping Artest or trading him costs you the same amount, whether you waive the worthless piece that matched salaries (let's say Dikau) or not.

Waiving a guy in his final year is really no big deal if you don't need him. Did it with Fundy, might have done it with Brent Price. Did it with Hart. Doesn't hurt anything. UNLESS of course that player might have some value in trade. Fred Jones for instance is a real player -- I would interested ins eeing whetehr I could dump him on a team for a 2nd round pick or some such before I went the waiver route. Or in his case, actually make use of him. he's an exciting player, and good enoguh for a 1yr patch.

 

[Smills91]

There's just no way I see Petrie even being the least bit intrigued by Balkman as the principle piece in return for artest, thus no deal.

Balkman is a LESSER player and WILL be a lesser player than an Artest. He doesn't fill ANY need on our roster and there really isn't much enthralling about pick in 2010 from the Knicks and Nate Robinson. Artest ends PROBABLY next season.

Petrie wants LEE. He's the guy that makes sense. Personally I like COLLINS a LOT more the Mr. Dwarf.

If I'm Petrie and Zeke calls, I say: If you TRULY want Artest, then Lee/Collins is the starting point...the remainder can be negotiated.

Balkman/Robinson is just as much a garbage package as basically the remainder of their roster.

Lee/Collins, IMO are the ONLY true assets on the Knicks roster.

 

[dmj]

Personally, I'd rather get Balkman in a deal than Lee. Lee is a great rebounder, but that is about it from what I've seen. He doesn't have much in the way of offensive ability and isn't a very good defender. Balkman lacks an offensive game as well, but he is a high energy player who plays very good defense and can rebound very well also. I honestly believe that Balkman has the ability to become an even better defender than Artest, though he won't come close to his offensive production.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

Until Artest IS traded(or not)everyone and their uncle will be putting 1 and 1 together and making 5 out of it, using the logic that Artest is from there, and the Kings suck, and NY is a better place for him, yada yada yada...

 

[SacKings7]

I hope an Artest deal with the Knicks goes thru. I wouldn't mind getting Lee, but I'd rather have Collins after seeing the kind of stats he put up towards the end of the season. And, as someone mentioned, Jones and Dickau are soon eligible to be traded, so this might come up again at the end of the month

 

[cfechter]

But numerous sources said there's nothing doing at present, and the overall sense is that the Kings have never been close to what - in their estimation - would be giving Artest away. Jared Jeffries, for example, was a "centerpiece" of a proposal New York came the Kings' way with earlier in the summer, ...

Anytime you see the words "centerpiece" and "Jared Jeffries" in the same sentence, run far, far away. Thomas is some kind of idiot if he thinks the Kings would take a crappy player with a crappy contract in exchange for Arest.

I really don't see the big deal for getting "enders" in a deal involving Ron Artest (unless of course we were able to toss one of our horrible contracts in the mix) since his contract expires at the end of next season. And I personally would give him a 50% chance of opting out at the end of this season regardless, seeing as how he's underpaid for his production (this of course is assuming he has a year similar to this one and that he doesn't behave like a complete lunatic). Granted, we have to take contracts back in any deal to make the salaries match and we don't want any long term deals, but I'd honestly just rather take nothing and let Ron walk then crappy "enders" just to get him out of town.

 

[Entity]

eh. Id just keep Artest over any of them. Unless you start talking about more than 1 first round pick I am not interested. If we are interested in the enders hell Artest is basically an ender and a greater talent than all of the above put together.

I just think I would be more excited wathing Artest for 1 more year than Nate,Jones,Dikau,Balkman all of whom wouldn't be here next year anyway. Now if Miami starts talking about a William, Wright, and a pick deal then I am on that bandwagon. Like Brick said if New York takes back KT and sends Rose then I would think about it again. But if your looking for enders then look no farther than what you have already.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

I swear the rest of the people in the world must think that(even though he's had a FEW questionable last few trades)but do people think Petrie is stupid or something? We're not going to take JUNK for Ron...lets get that straight right now. I doubt very seriously that he would bite on a Ron for Balkman/Dickau/Robinson trade...that would just be stupid...there would have to be a draft pick or something thrown in there...and a 1st rounder, at that. I think that there are a few people in this world that know that Ron might be a little crazy, but he's been fine since he's been here in Sac, and that he isnt a cancer of any kind, and he is still one of the best all-around players in this league. He's worth more than any trade that we've heard about so far. I think that Lee and a 1st rounder would be worth it, perhaps...but far short of that...I dont think that even Joe and Gavin would be that stupid.

edit: and I dont expect NY to bite on giving us Lee, or throw in one of their 1st round picks any time soon, so we can cross out a trade happening involving Ron to the Knicks any time soon.

 

[SacKings7]

eh. Id just keep Artest over any of them. Unless you start talking about more than 1 first round pick I am not interested. If we are interested in the enders hell Artest is basically an ender and a greater talent than all of the above put together.

I just think I would be more excited wathing Artest for 1 more year than Nate,Jones,Dikau,Balkman all of whom wouldn't be here next year anyway. Now if Miami starts talking about a William, Wright, and a pick deal then I am on that bandwagon. Like Brick said if New York takes back KT and sends Rose then I would think about it again. But if your looking for enders then look no farther than what you have already.

I think the point of this deal with the Knicks is to get a young guy or 2 from them, and since the salaries need to match, we need to take back a higher paid player. We just want enders so that basically we're in the same position in terms of expirings, only we managed to get younger

 

[John Galt]

I swear the rest of the people in the world must think that(even though he's had a FEW questionable last few trades)but do people think Petrie is stupid or something? We're not going to take JUNK for Ron...lets get that straight right now. I doubt very seriously that he would bite on a Ron for Balkman/Dickau/Robinson trade...that would just be stupid...there would have to be a draft pick or something thrown in there...and a 1st rounder, at that. I think that there are a few people in this world that know that Ron might be a little crazy, but he's been fine since he's been here in Sac, and that he isnt a cancer of any kind, and he is still one of the best all-around players in this league. He's worth more than any trade that we've heard about so far. I think that Lee and a 1st rounder would be worth it, perhaps...but far short of that...I dont think that even Joe and Gavin would be that stupid.

edit: and I dont expect NY to bite on giving us Lee, or throw in one of their 1st round picks any time soon, so we can cross out a trade happening involving Ron to the Knicks any time soon.

I think the Knicks are nuts not to give us Lee, a first rounder, and salary balancers to get this thing done. It is a chance to get a GREAT talent and a bad boy to fit a new image and sell Knicks tickets. They'd probably win a hell of a lot of games too. As nice a player as Lee is - he is JUST their backup power forward now.

 

[Bricklayer]

I think that there are a few people in this world that know that Ron might be a little crazy, but he's been fine since he's been here in Sac, and that he isnt a cancer of any kind,

Whoa whoa whoa...wait! What??

Ron is coming off a season in which he just finished shooting the hell out of whatever residual trade value he once had. Where he feuded with the coach, threw tantrums in the lockerroom, was accused of starving his dog and beating his wife, announced he was retiring, and then turned around and changed his mind. Other than that though, yeah, perfectly stable sort that every franchise is just dying to trot out there in its colors.

 

[Vlade4GM]

I think the Knicks are nuts not to give us Lee, a first rounder, and salary balancers to get this thing done. It is a chance to get a GREAT talent and a bad boy to fit a new image and sell Knicks tickets. They'd probably win a hell of a lot of games too. As nice a player as Lee is - he is JUST their backup power forward now.

I think Isiah wants him bad but for once he's actually trying to play the game. If Petrie is just posturing with his comments then he'll win the game I believe.

 

[cfechter]

Whoa whoa whoa...wait! What??

Ron is coming off a season in which he just finished shooting the hell out of whatever residual trade value he once had. Where he feuded with the coach, threw tantrums in the lockerroom, was accused of starving his dog and beating his wife, announced he was retiring, and then turned around and changed his mind. Other than that though, yeah, perfectly stable sort that every franchise is just dying to trot out there in its colors.

Artest just came off of his strongest statistical season ever, on numbers alone, what team WOULDN'T be dying for him. However, for all the reasons that Bricklayer lists here, no-one seems to want him enough to trade anything remotely resembling equal value. Letting him walk will be better than taking 10 cents on the dollar.

 

[bajaden]

I think that Bricklayer has it correct. Its not exactly the truth. But it is the perception of the people around the league.. Whether he actually beat his wife or starved his dog is now immaterial. It is what people think, and that does affect his value. Having said all that, I do think that New York is the perfect fit for him,and I think that Isiah knows that. Will Artest lead them to a championship or even a division title, I doubt it. But it would look good on paper.