Artest deal "Guaranteed." ???????

[Entity]

One major player agent, usually the overly cautious type, went so far as to tell Insider he "guarantees" Ron Artest will be traded, saying Sacramento has had a change of heart after believing earlier this season that the best way to move forward would be to deal Mike Bibby. One team to keep in mind in the whole Artest mix is Miami, as the Heat's interest in Allen Iverson showed how Pat Riley -- one of the few who would welcome the challenge of coaching a head case like Artest -- is looking to do something major in his effort to repeat.







ESPN.com get more with insider which i don't have.

 

[Entity]

that scares the hell out of me knowing that Ron and Walker have identical contracts except walker is for 5 more years.

 

[NoBonus]

that scares the hell out of me knowing that Ron and Walker have identical contracts except walker is for 5 more years.

Though this is pure speculation, the idea of Walker in Sac makes me want to heave.

 

[Bricklayer]

that scares the hell out of me knowing that Ron and Walker have identical contracts except walker is for 5 more years.

I have a hard time believing we would take back Walker. Not an impossible time given our GM's fascination with jumpshots, but a hard time.

The key assets that Miami held in both the A.I. case and a pursuit of Artest (which would make a lot of sense given their team) were/are:

a) James Posey's ending contract;
b) two kids in Dorell Wright (super athletic SF) and Wayne Simien (bruising but limited 6'9" PF); and
c) their first round pick.

Any and all of which I would think would be on the table to try to land Artest. The problem with that pick just being that while it would be nice and high now, after you add Artest and get Shaq back they likely go on a run and its up in the 20's somewhere.

 

[Diabeticwonder]

A deal with Miami would make more sense than a deal with LAC in that they have more to offer as to our needs. I agree completely with Brick in that getting a combination of Posey, Wright, Simien and a pick would be great IMO. Now, if we could just throw in KT and get Haslem back, but that's just wishful thinking. Even if we have to thow in Cisco if we get back Wright that would be fine by me. As far as Ron going to Miami, I think that it might work for his sake and for the Heat's sake. Being coached by Riley and having to defer to Shaq and Wade might just work for him.

 

[Bricklayer]

BTW, just for argument's sake:

Kings Out:
Ron Artest $7.2mil
Kenny Thomas $6.7mil

Kings In:
James Posey $6.4mil (ending)
Dorell Wright $1.1mil
Jeff McInnis $3.6mil (ending) -- waive
Mikki Moore $1.1mil (ending)
Josh Boone $1.1mil
#1 (from Miami)

Miami Out:
James Posey $6.4mil
Antoine Walker $7.8mil
Dorell Wright $1.1mil
#1 pick

Miami In:
Ron Artest $7.2mil
Kenny Thomas $6.7mil

New Jersey Out:
Jeff McInnis $3.6mil
Mikki Moore $1.1mil
Josh Boone $1.1mil

New Jersy In:
Antoine Walker $7.8mil

Probably have to be tweaked, and waive Pot + McInnis to make roster room for the new bodies. In any case, a risk -- young does NOT always = good. And dealing with those teams you are basically getting lots of #20 something picks rather than surefire lottery studs. On the other hand, its a way to rebuild. Clean some contracts and problem personalities, get some kids (Wright looks quite promising actually), get an extra pick in a great draft, and clean an extra $11mil in cap room to go sign maybe another kid -- a Varejao or Darko or somebody this summer.

 

[Roman]

Personally, I could see Chicago or Atlanta as good trading partners.

Atlanta has a ton of SF youth, but would be hard to get contracts to match up.

Chicago has PJ Brown which helps us at PF and some youth. The idea of having two of the best defenders in the league on one team might be too tempting to pass up. Package SAR/Artest and you'll probably get worth.


Jersey is also looking for a post player and we could send them Artest too. But I'm not sure they have much they would part with or how much they need Artest.

I can't see the Heat truly giving up youth and such for Artest.

 

[Bricklayer]

I can't see the Heat truly giving up youth and such for Artest.

?? Er...why not? They are trying to repeat, and their window is right now. They also have the rare coaching legend who is going to think he can deal with Ron.


As a young unformed team going nowhere Atlanta isn't going to want any part of Artest. Chicago...guess its possible, but with Dneg and Nocioni already there, not sure where/how he fits. He plays their strongest position with their brightest young star. Who is sane.

 

[cfechter]

that scares the hell out of me knowing that Ron and Walker have identical contracts except walker is for 5 more years.

The idea that Petrie would take on Walker's contract is ridiculous.

 

[Roman]

?? Er...why not? They are trying to repeat, and their window is right now. They also have the rare coaching legend who is going to think he can deal with Ron.

Because they don't need him or the potential headache. Their core is already there, Shaq coming back is all they need to have a legit shot at repeating.

As a young unformed team going nowhere Atlanta isn't going to want any part of Artest.

Eh. You never know. They've got the pieces for trades and there is so much player duplication ... I can see them moving pieces.

Chicago...guess its possible, but with Dneg and Nocioni already there, not sure where/how he fits. He plays their strongest position with their brightest young star. Who is sane.

I think we could get Deng for Artest and PJ Brown for SAR. Throw in an extra like Khryapa and I think it's a decent deal. Gives us a young SF to grow alongside of Martin. Gives us an expiring PJ Brown and a solid PF who can provide a bit of defense.

Bulls do it because they get one of the best SF defenders in the league to pair up with Wallace. Then they get a low post scorer, which is their biggest need right now in SAR.

 

[nbrans]

?? Er...why not? They are trying to repeat, and their window is right now. They also have the rare coaching legend who is going to think he can deal with Ron.


As a young unformed team going nowhere Atlanta isn't going to want any part of Artest. Chicago...guess its possible, but with Dneg and Nocioni already there, not sure where/how he fits. He plays their strongest position with their brightest young star. Who is sane.

The only thing I could possibly see is that Chicago is obsessed with defense and they may need to resolve their SF logjam before free agency hits -- I'd assume either Deng or Nocioni would be in the deal and the other would come off the bench. The one thing they lack is perimeter defense. Deng is ok, Nocioni is actually a good post defender, but unless you count Thabo Sefolosha they don't really have a great perimeter defender.

But Artest and Skiles? Can't imagine that would work. And they already have one headcase in Ben Wallace. And they're waiting for Kevin Garnett.

I think the list of reasons they wouldn't is a lot longer than the reasons they would.

PS: Oh, and I think Artest in Miami is almost too good of a fit to even consider trading him there. You have all the ingredients for a good mix -- an alpha scorer who even Artest knows he's not as good as, a veteran in Shaq who Artest would respect, and an alpha coach who Artest would respect. That's probably the most ideal situation for him, and I'd have to think Miami is confident that they could incorporate him.

The problem from the Kings standpoint is that an expiring is not appealing at all. It's one thing for someone like Bibby, who is overpaid, but there's no hope whatsoever that the Kings could sign equal talent with $7 million in cap space. So you need to get close to equal talent back in a trade and hopefully a pick. Otherwise you're left with basidcally nothing.

 

[Bricklayer]

The idea that Petrie would take on Walker's contract is ridiculous.

I dunno -- if you're an aging undersized tweener SF/PF earning $6-$7mil we are always interested.

I'm just eager to see what the genius masterstroke is once we've completely cornered the market. Maybe we've got pictures of Stern with some farm animals and pink lingerie, and are going to have him suddenly ban anybody over 6'9"?

 

[Entity]

WoW brick that was a long thought process. I you are right New Jersey should be in the hunt for a PF. We do get back some kids some endings, some shot blocking (Mikki Moore) and we get another 1st round pick and we get rid of 2 "problems". What do we have after the fact.

Bibby Price Douby Hart
Martin Garcia
Salmons Posey Wright
SAR Corlis Simien
Miller Moore Boone

I like it

Then Next season we can build on this

Bibby Price Douby
Martin Garcia
Salmons Wright
SAR Simien
Miller Boone

4 empty roster spots with Money to spend (trades not withstanding)

 

[Smills91]

WoW! Many of you here are underrating the value that Artest can have in a deal. He's a 26 year old with top-tier talents. I still don't beleive the rumormill that WE are actively looking to deal him for crap.

Miami has very little in terms of fit for us, but the closest thing I could think of would be this...

Kings deal:
Artest
Kenny
Hart

Heat deal:
Haslem
Posey
Simien
Wright
1st

That's the CLOSEST thing I could see as a legit offer, but that still sucks. I just don't see the point in dealing Artest at this time unless a team gives us a NO-BRAINER deal.

 

[Roman]

WoW! Many of you here are underrating the value that Artest can have in a deal. He's a 26 year old with top-tier talents.

None of us are discounting that he's near the prime of his career and has an impact game (top-tier, eh ... dunno ... up for debate). But, he's a complete headcase.

You have to remember, the year we got him all that Indy got was a mega-slumping Peja with an ending contract. Not exactly a goldmine.

I still don't beleive the rumormill that WE are actively looking to deal him for crap.

The only reason we would be actively looking is if Artest has basically tossed in the towel, which is completely possible. Especially when you factor in the number of "mysterious" injuries and issues that are cropping up.

 

[Diabeticwonder]

NJ is scouring the planet for anyone that can play the 4 or 5 and we've got to be callling them to see if they can take any part of a deal with KT. The more I think about it the more I'm convincing myself that Miami might just be the team to look at to get some pieces from. Aside from Posey, Simien and perhaps a pick, Dorrell Wright might turn into the real deal one day. His athletic ability alone is off the charts and whenever he gets 30+ min. he rebounds like a freak. He's had some 13, 14, 15 and 16 rebound games this year, but then again why would we want someone who could actually jump and rebound at an above average level?

 

[nbrans]

WoW! Many of you here are underrating the value that Artest can have in a deal. He's a 26 year old with top-tier talents. I still don't beleive the rumormill that WE are actively looking to deal him for crap.

Miami has very little in terms of fit for us, but the closest thing I could think of would be this...

Kings deal:
Artest
Kenny
Hart

Heat deal:
Haslem
Posey
Simien
Wright
1st

That's the CLOSEST thing I could see as a legit offer, but that still sucks. I just don't see the point in dealing Artest at this time unless a team gives us a NO-BRAINER deal.

No, no, no. Smills, you're confusing Artest's value as a player with his value on the open market. Yeah, he's a really good player when he's focused. But he's a huge risk, he's worn out his welcome for two teams in just over one year, he's disruptive and he's been injury prone this year. Teams are not going to throw in the kitchen sink to get him. Furthermore, teams can sense the urgency the Kings feel right now because there's a perception (true or not) that the Kings are trying to salvage a disaster-in-the-making.

The Kings are not going to get "fair" value for Artest -- they're not going to get a player as good as him back in a trade. But sometimes you have to cash out before you're broke, and that's the situation the Kings are in right now. If there's real urgency to deal Artest they just have to get as much as they can -- there's no luxury to wait for a "no brainer" type of deal.

 

[Roman]

NJ is scouring the planet for anyone that can play the 4 or 5 and we've got to be callling them to see if they can take any part of a deal with KT.

Not a chance they'd take KT, no matter how badly they need a PF.

It'd be funny to see them end back up with SAR! HA!

 

[Diabeticwonder]

Not a chance they'd take KT, no matter how badly they need a PF.

It'd be funny to see them end back up with SAR! HA!

Never say never. Keep hope alive!!!

 

[Entity]

How about Ron and KT to New Jersey for Vince Carter, Moore, and a pick.

I read on some low level rumor page (i think Hoopshype) that New Jersey wanted to rid Carter before the deadline. He is at high cost but only for this season and next then he is a FA.

 

[Roman]

How about Ron and KT to New Jersey for Vince Carter, Moore, and a pick.

I read on some low level rumor page (i think Hoopshype) that New Jersey wanted to rid Carter before the deadline. He is at high cost but only for this season and next then he is a FA.

I think they'd be looking for more of a scorer. Someone like Ray Allen for Carter.

 

[Entity]

They are looking long term. Allen is far from long term. They know Kidd is on his way out and they need a face and a PF right now. Artest and KT would be killing 2 birds with one stone and they only loose a guy they want gone anyway because they say they want Jefferson to take on more of the scoring load and they loose the pick which is probably more concern for them

 

[kupman]

I still like my idea best ..........deal Artest to the Magic for Darko and JJ.........this would truly put us in rebuild mode and give us arguably the best young team in the league.

 

[Bricklayer]

I still like my idea best ..........deal Artest to the Magic for Darko and JJ.........this would truly put us in rebuild mode and give us arguably the best young team in the league.

Except of course that the Magic want no part of wacky Artest, and at an unathletic 6'4" JJ may not be able to play at this level. BTW, best young team in the league? Not even close, although maybe the inevitable lottery pick in that scenario might get us closer.

 

[Diabeticwonder]

How about Ron and KT to New Jersey for Vince Carter, Moore, and a pick.

I read on some low level rumor page (i think Hoopshype) that New Jersey wanted to rid Carter before the deadline. He is at high cost but only for this season and next then he is a FA.

I too thought about that and I'd be OK with that.

 

[Bricklayer]

I too thought about that and I'd be OK with that.

But why oh why would we want Vince in our position? As an equal talent? As an ender? It would be one of those style determining things. But when the style is be weak and pretty and run up and down the court shooting willy nilly and playing no defense...

Besides which NJ isn't going to do something like that. They need a spark and a frontcourt guy, not to replace their leading scorer with an unstable force. I could see them dealing Vince if they think he's going to walk, but if they do, they would have to be getting back something long term, not something even less dependable.

 

[Entity]

I was just going off of the rumor that New Jersey wanted to ship out Carter. But yes Vice would be and ender next season. Defense??? i dunno but the motion offense Muss wants to run would be in full effect. And we rid KT and get another top 20 pick besides ours

 

[kupman]

Except of course that the Magic want no part of wacky Artest,

This is probably true from what I have read elsewhere

and at an unathletic 6'4" JJ may not be able to play at this level.

I think this guy will be useful in the future to come off the bench and hit 2-3 3's in a game once in a while.

BTW, best young team in the league? Not even close, although maybe the inevitable lottery pick in that scenario might get us closer.

I think we would be one of the best young teams.....although it is all purely hypothetical and probably not worth debating at this point.

 

[Diabeticwonder]

The only reason why NJ would rid itself of Vince is if they were confident that he was going to walk at the end of year or that his asking price would be way too high for them. I don't think that Vince would help solve much for us, but it's an ending contract and I'm sure the Maloofs would love to have him because it makes no basketball sense, but I'm sure that Joe and Gavin keep thinking how cool it would be to have one of the best dunkers of all time on the team. Vince would play on their impulsive instincts rather than their common sense, which I'm not too sure is even around anymore.

 

[LPKingsFan]

BTW, just for argument's sake:

Kings Out:
Ron Artest $7.2mil
Kenny Thomas $6.7mil

Kings In:
James Posey $6.4mil (ending)
Dorell Wright $1.1mil
Jeff McInnis $3.6mil (ending) -- waive
Mikki Moore $1.1mil (ending)
Josh Boone $1.1mil
#1 (from Miami)

Miami Out:
James Posey $6.4mil
Antoine Walker $7.8mil
Dorell Wright $1.1mil
#1 pick

Miami In:
Ron Artest $7.2mil
Kenny Thomas $6.7mil

New Jersey Out:
Jeff McInnis $3.6mil
Mikki Moore $1.1mil
Josh Boone $1.1mil

New Jersy In:
Antoine Walker $7.8mil

Probably have to be tweaked, and waive Pot + McInnis to make roster room for the new bodies. In any case, a risk -- young does NOT always = good. And dealing with those teams you are basically getting lots of #20 something picks rather than surefire lottery studs. On the other hand, its a way to rebuild. Clean some contracts and problem personalities, get some kids (Wright looks quite promising actually), get an extra pick in a great draft, and clean an extra $11mil in cap room to go sign maybe another kid -- a Varejao or Darko or somebody this summer.

Not too bad of a scenario given the likely market. But is this better than a deal with the Clips for Maggette and a 1st? Hard to say? An extra $11mil in cap room is nice, but so is a 20 ppg scorer. If the plan is to let Bibby walk, or trade him for a pick and additional capspace, and youre looking at some $20mil under the cap to work with this summer, sure.