Arena Vote

[Bricklayer]

of course it's a bit revisionist. that's sports...

but the entire reason i was attempting to create an effective parallel between seattle and sacramento is because the city of sacramento wasn't exactly supporting the kings until kevin johnson arrived. he's been the kings' biggest advocate in sactown. apart from the occasional "here we buy" event, fan support has been sporadic, at best. attendance is still down, even though these could be the kings' last few weeks in sacramento. it's KJ's herculean effort that changed the game and improved sac's chances of retaining the team. such an effort is exceedingly uncommon, however, and i would be hard pressed to imagine a scenario in which any other mayor in any other city is able to present an 11th hour, 59th minute bid of this magnitude, complete with an arena deal that outlines considerable public funding. it certainly should not be an expectation, so it surprises me that many kings fans are revealing a limited perspective on the issue, given the franchise's recent trajectory...

mostly, i find it a bit unsettling that kings fans are so ready to sweep their own brand of revisionist history under the rug. i've certainly got no love for the maloofs, but the city of sacramento fought them for a decade on the arena issue. had an appropriate ESC already been built, we're not where we are today. the team is here, and it's here to stay. but because we're where we are today, if we were also without KJ, the kings would be seattle-bound. he is that rare savior figure in professional sports... the kind who doesn't wear a jersey. in my estimation, he's the only major difference between sacramento's current situation and seattle's previous situation...

I actually have a tendency to agree with this. I was very early to the arena issue, as far back as 2002/2003 I think. People wouldn't listen. Arco was fine. Nobody would ever leave the best fanbase in the world! Etc. etc. Self delusion while the golden moment passed. And after that its been a long slide toward disaster, only saved now by the fantastic leadership of one man. KJ deserves all the credit he gets and then some. He's been amazing. But he never should have had to be.

But that's people. All around the league, the country, the world. By nature essentially shortsighted. As a strategist it drives me up the wall, but its life. People WILL put off doing what has to be done forever and ever making up whatever stories or excuses they can to avoid doing it until the very last moment, and then maybe it comes down to do you have a KJ there when the day has to be saved. If you don't you lose. Sacramento has gotten very lucky here.

But the fight is fully joined now, so all of these little considerations of history or revisionism or anything else have to be set aside. Its time for another classic human behavior: a unified front without doubts about its moral superiority. If the Kings are to be saved, that will be the deal. Sonics fans had it themselves, and felt sure of victory as they thought they were going to mug a little city full of doubt, and found they had a tiger by the tail instead.

 

[VF21]

No, they pledged 22 mil of season tickets.

Nope. That's not true, either.

There are separate lists of potential season ticket holders that have NOTHING to do with the individuals who have pledged $1 million each. In addition, there are also corporate sponsors who are already promising years of corporate financial support.

The 7% situation is being discussed in another thread. It's not a stumbling block.

 

[Padrino]

The city was always willing to play ball, the Maloofs always wanted just a little more than the city would give. When it came up for a vote, the Maloofs undercut the ballot measures (I'm not a fan of raising the general sales tax so I'm not one to talk on that matter). Without a doubt, without KJ, the city leadership lets the Maloofs take the Kings and go.

As for attendance, it's not just that the Kings are bad. That's tolerable. It's how bad and how mismanaged things have become. On top of that the facilities have fallen into disrepair. Our owners have turned us into a joke.

i certainly don't disagree. not one bit. i'm just surprised by the attitudes of many kings fans regarding seattle's situation. message boards are not exactly the place to look for evidence of a fanbase's collective mindset. one wouldn't trot out some of kf.com's loud-but-less-than-reputable members to represent kings fans as a whole. no need to do the same with sonics fans. the internet most often breeds swift and negative reaction, particularly amongst those who disagree...

 

[pdxKingsFan]

i certainly don't disagree. not one bit. i'm just surprised by the attitudes of many kings fans regarding seattle's situation. message boards are not exactly the place to look for evidence of a fanbase's collective mindset. one wouldn't trot out some of kf.com's loud-but-less-than-reputable members to represent kings fans as a whole. no need to do the same with sonics fans. the internet most often breeds swift and negative reaction, particularly amongst those who disagree...

I'm probably overly sensitive to it because this is the apex of my two sporting worlds. But even when I lived on the East Coast I always thought S**tle was a fair weather sports town.

 

[butteredbiscuit]

I don't want any city to lose its team. It is so inconsistent with everything we have been claiming to be right and proper.

--signed
an old man

I do have to agree. But if they dont do expansion, Seattle will have to wait until they get another chance to get some other person's team. Charlotte, Milwaukee and what Indiana? Are you serious??


It is okay to be older

 

[butteredbiscuit]

I have a bone to pick with you. I'm glad that your on our side, but you have to engage your brain before making stupid statements. I'm 71 years old, and I like to think of myself as someone thats open to new ideas. Believe it or not, I actually use a computer everyday, and I occasionally spew my thoughts on this fourm from time to time. What a person believes in has nothing to do with his or her age. It has to do with who they are. Trust me, there are young people that are stupid as well as there are old people that are stupid. Old people have one thing that young people don't have, and thats experience. That doesn't make us all wise, but there was a time, when old people were revered for that experience. You seldom found a young buck the leader of a tribe.

The word respect leaps to mind. Its an important word, because without it in life, you have nothing. You lost a little of my respect with your comment. I understand that you were caught up in the moment. None the less, think before you speak.

I respect your point! I just had a problem with the guy being so stubborn and wouldnt budge on what he was saying. How could you come against the arena? he wasnt able to understand about that you need a new arena to keep the Kings. Maybe your right about saying because he was older. I get that point. It is okay to have a bone to pick with me and explained why. I should have thought about how I said it. Your right!

 

[HereWeBoogie]

did anybody see Shaq on TNT last night when they brought up the city council vote?

he said "come on Mark Mastrov, keep that team in Sacramento"

 

[ninjabiscuit]

Take the high road

i certainly don't disagree. not one bit. i'm just surprised by the attitudes of many kings fans regarding seattle's situation. message boards are not exactly the place to look for evidence of a fanbase's collective mindset. one wouldn't trot out some of kf.com's loud-but-less-than-reputable members to represent kings fans as a whole. no need to do the same with sonics fans. the internet most often breeds swift and negative reaction, particularly amongst those who disagree...

I agree with this wholeheartedly. No matter what you think of the Sonics fans, I don't think it does Kings fans any good to trash talk them or even argue with them, frankly. Let's just take the high road and see how it all plays out. None of this is their fault, in my opinion. They're just the ones hoping to benefit from a situation that the Maloofs created, not the Sonics fans. Sonics fans feel the same way we all do, just for a different team.

The only thing that actually matters at this point is what the BoG decides.

Blame the Maloofs, not the Sonics fans.

 

[CPR]

I actually have a tendency to agree with this. I was very early to the arena issue, as far back as 2002/2003 I think. People wouldn't listen. Arco was fine. Nobody would ever leave the best fanbase in the world! Etc. etc. Self delusion while the golden moment passed. And after that its been a long slide toward disaster, only saved now by the fantastic leadership of one man. KJ deserves all the credit he gets and then some. He's been amazing. But he never should have had to be.

But that's people. All around the league, the country, the world. By nature essentially shortsighted. As a strategist it drives me up the wall, but its life. People WILL put off doing what has to be done forever and ever making up whatever stories or excuses they can to avoid doing it until the very last moment, and then maybe it comes down to do you have a KJ there when the day has to be saved. If you don't you lose. Sacramento has gotten very lucky here.

But the fight is fully joined now, so all of these little considerations of history or revisionism or anything else have to be set aside. Its time for another classic human behavior: a unified front without doubts about its moral superiority. If the Kings are to be saved, that will be the deal. Sonics fans had it themselves, and felt sure of victory as they thought they were going to mug a little city full of doubt, and found they had a tiger by the tail instead.

Two great posts. I agree with every word of both.

With different leadership and citizens with a more realistic perspective about the condition of Arco as compared to other facilities coupled with a more optimistic outlook about what Downtown Sacramento could and should be, the City of Sacramento and the fans could have forced the Maloofs to commit to a new building or sell the team to someone that would in the early 2000's.

The Mayor has been tremendous. I voted for him and did not expect him to be as fantastic as he has been. I like how aggressive he is and the fact that he does not buy into the "poor us" Sacramento world view who have a simplistic view of seeing every investment dollar invested in something as a dollar taken from somewhere else.

 

[kennadog]

Older people are always going to be against making themselves step out of the box. Not like they will be alive anyways...

All right, I'm a little miffed. I'm 62, thank you. I my mom was more progressive at 86, than a good many people in their 20s. And a number of the anti-folk were youngsters.

Also, there have been a lot of Kings fans pushing for a new arena for a very long time. Back to the early 2000s. Its pretty clear to me that the Maloofs never had any intention of helping to build a new arena in Sacramento. Every time, they found some reason to back or backed out for no apparent reason at all.

It is true that we needed a mayor and council members willing to go to bat for the city. Although it scared the heck out of me, the Maloofs deciding to sell the team was the best possible outcome. We could now have an ownership that's as good as almost any in the league. And group who really believe in Sacramento.

The real villains are the Maloofs, because they never told the city they were willing to sell. Its obvious they wanted to screw over Sacramento. They milked the good years, blew millions and want to kick us in the face on their way down.

I wish Seattle could get an NBA team back, but I don't want it to be our team or any other fanbase's team.