Are the Maloofs really the good guys/victims in all of this?

All news reports are still stating they do not have the paperwork needed from the maloof's..... you are saying they do now?

If so this is news....

http://www.sacbee.com/2011/02/28/3438309/kings-fans-fill-arco-loudly-implore.html#ixzz1FN9HbKpu
A mayoral aide also said the Kings on Monday had delivered the first batch of promised arena feasibility documents to the David Taylor and the ICON Venue group, who are looking into arena costs for the city.

http://www.bellinghamherald.com/2011/03/04/1897675/mayor-johnson-says-sacramento.html#ixzz1Fftg30aZ
Kings officials have shared some documents with Taylor, but have declined to provide key financial statements, and have not agreed to meet with Taylor.

No one knows what those "key financial statements" are, but I can't imagine Taylor needs anything that the city doesn't already have, or isn't privy to. If they want to see the Maloofs balance sheets and all of MSE's ledgers and stuff, well, I don't think they need to see that or should be provided with that. There's certain information that the Maloofs have a right to withhold.
 
Even KJ said yesterday in his press conference that the Maloofs do not feel comfortable handing over the financial documents... this has been all over the news here in Sac.... why wouldn't they want to hand over that information?

I never said that Joe Maloof caused the defeat of Q and R, I just said that he came out and made a statement that was contrary to what everyone else (by that I mean City officials) thought he was going to say. You don't think that could've caused a strain in the relationship between the Maloofs and the City? If you were the Mayor or Rob Fong, wouldn't you think that they weren't being genuine when they go off and make statements to the press contrary to the entire plan?

I was saying that KJ should be given an opportunity to at least see what the ICON/Taylor group comes back with..... remember he didn't start the whole "Convergence Plan" idea that cost us a couple of years -- that was the brainchild of the NBA's John Moag.....
 
I'm trying really hard to wrap my mind around your perception of the Maloofs. And I can't. Because the facts just don't support it. From the moment the Maloofs took over ownership of the Kings, people started accusing them of being carpetbaggers. From day one they were accused of buying the team with the intention of moving it to Las Vegas, or some other destination that was closer to their base of operation. They denied it from the beginning. And they've been denying it every year for the last 12 years. All they've asked for is a new arena. Other than that, until now, they've done nothing to make anyone beleive that they wanted to move the team.

You say that their timing is bad. In what way? Would next year be better? Or would it have been better 2 or 3 years ago? I mean, is there a good time for them to leave? This arena problem has been there for 10 years, and nothing has been done. Some of that is the fault of the Maloofs, and some is the fault of the city. No one is perfect in this equation. But Regardless of guilt, there's still no arena. There's still no approved arena deal. And there's no guarantee that the pending one will come to fruition. Hope and patience only travel so far. To suggest that they should just put up with the old arena until the cows come home isn't going to work. And they won't do it.

Folks are accusing them of being bad businessmen. And at the same time getting angry at them for wanting a better product to sell to the public. The arena as well as the team is part of the product. Your asking them to accept the worse of both worlds. Operating in a small market, and doing so with an inferior arena. While they're out there competing with big market teams with new or newer arena's. I honestly don't think they bought the team to get rich off of. But it does have to make a profit. And it has to be able to make a profit when the payroll is maxed out, and not at its current level.

You can be angry at them if you want to. I think its misplaced, and certainly won't change anything. In basic terms, the Maloofs have a product. The Kings! It will cost money to have that product here. If no one is willing to pay the price for that product, then they'll sell it to someone else. At the moment, the price is a new arena. You can call them selfish, arrogant, or whatever you want. Bottom line, its their product, and thats the price. Its really that simple. The guy at the corner grocery store uses the same principles. You want a bottle of milk, you pay for it. The Maloofs aren't a charity institution. They have donated 30 million dollars to the sacramento community over the last 12 years though. Bah Humbug, that doesn't count for anything. They're still selfish bastards.

You make a ton of great points.
 
http://www.sacbee.com/2011/02/28/3438309/kings-fans-fill-arco-loudly-implore.html#ixzz1FN9HbKpu


http://www.bellinghamherald.com/2011/03/04/1897675/mayor-johnson-says-sacramento.html#ixzz1Fftg30aZ









No one knows what those "key financial statements" are, but I can't imagine Taylor needs anything that the city doesn't already have, or isn't privy to. If they want to see the Maloofs balance sheets and all of MSE's ledgers and stuff, well, I don't think they need to see that or should be provided with that. There's certain information that the Maloofs have a right to withhold.


From my understanding they do in fact need the financial documents referred to above in order to proceed, these are from what has been reported been asked for and not received for quite some time. Rather then say no we don't feel comfy handing these over, they in turn have not provided them and are not saying if they ever will. According to the Mayor and Icon, they need these docs. The difference with the Icon group is they have in fact done this process several time, if they say they need more docs then I tend to believe them. If other groups and owners have handed these over in the past, then why not the maloof's?

I could tell you why... but I won't go there again as some people can't handle it.
 
And my whole point in starting this thread was to point out to people that the Maloofs aren't the victims here, they are at the very least just as much culpable in this as anyone else.

There are a lot of people, including several on this thread, who make it seem like they did all they could. And I'm going to say that they didn't do all they could...

There is finally a mayor who is willing to make this a priority, and they are not exactly cooperating like they even want his plan to succeed....
 
Simple answer to this question, no they're not. They shoulder as much or more responsibilty than anyone. This is all about $$$$. And short term money at that. They've managed their's poorly and now they're in trouble. What's really sad is that Sacramento residents and fans are going to pay for their bad business decisions that have nothing to do with this area. Playing in the Las Vegas boys club, now you're broke and you're going to move our team. F you!

Sure others are to blame as well, but to simply say the Maloof's have done everything they can and give them a free pass is total BS.
 
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4. Cutting salary and not handing out bad MLE contracts is part of the rebuilding phase that every team goes through. Nobody but the Knicks has one of the highest payrolls in the league while going to the lottery. You are right, the timing sucked, but I think this can be traced back to Webber's knee, not any master plan of moving by the Maloofs.

Also, it's their team. They don't have to manufacture low attendance to move. They can move any time they want, and they will get bad press if ARCO was full or empty. They are going to get bad press if they move today. I don't buy the argument they were trying for the perfect storm to move. If a building was up and they were locked in a lease, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. I could understand that viewpoint if the entire community was for a new arena effort. But we've seen apathy and resistance at just about every level from this community. The media, the government (with the exception of KJ), the majority of people who aren't kings fans, etc have not been 100% behind this. So, I don't think you can accuse the Maloofs for submarining efforts as if they were the reason nothing was done when the community was never really behind the idea in the first place.

#4 also coinsides with losing and saving money.

I think the Maloofs dont want to move the team and feel like bad guys. They want to be seen as good people. Also, maybe they think if Anaheim does bomb out they can move back be saviors if they didnt burn any bridges.
 
Even KJ said yesterday in his press conference that the Maloofs do not feel comfortable handing over the financial documents... this has been all over the news here in Sac.... why wouldn't they want to hand over that information?

I never said that Joe Maloof caused the defeat of Q and R, I just said that he came out and made a statement that was contrary to what everyone else (by that I mean City officials) thought he was going to say. You don't think that could've caused a strain in the relationship between the Maloofs and the City? If you were the Mayor or Rob Fong, wouldn't you think that they weren't being genuine when they go off and make statements to the press contrary to the entire plan?

I was saying that KJ should be given an opportunity to at least see what the ICON/Taylor group comes back with..... remember he didn't start the whole "Convergence Plan" idea that cost us a couple of years -- that was the brainchild of the NBA's John Moag.....

What information is it that Kevin Johnson thinks the Maloofs should be willing to surrender? Are we talking about all of MSE's balance sheets? Are we talking about personal asset information? I would assume that, with all the other deals that have been floated, the information necessary to at least form the framework for a viable plan is already available.

This is what the Kings said they would willing to provide when Taylor/ICON were assigned:
http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/news/2011/02/10/kings-will-give-icon-taylor-arena.html
Maloof Sports & Entertainment “has contributed several million dollars to pay for and support traffic and engineering studies, architectural plans and other studies as well as consultants, lawyers and architects,” a news release said. The Kings organization said it has offered its 11 years worth of documents to Taylor, but now will have no further comment on the latest effort for a new arena.

Now Taylor wants their financial information?

By the way -- and this is going to come across as a total apologist comment -- this is how you smear someone. You change the rules in the middle of the game and accuse them of not being forthcoming and hiding something. The Maloofs said they'd provide their research, not their financials, and frankly, I'm not sure what their financials have to do with putting together a plan for a new arena, at least not in the exploratory phase that we're still in.

As for the Q&R thing, they apparently wrote a bad ballot measure that never had any chance of passing, and Joe Maloof expressed some concern with it before the vote. He could have made out with the thing on national television, and it still wasn't going to pass. Everyone knew that. I'd get your angle if this thing went down by a slim margin. Both pieces of it got destroyed. I don't think Joe Maloof's comment had anything to do with it.

And I get what you're saying about Kevin Johnson, but he doesn't really have any say or sway in the situation. It doesn't matter who the mayor is. It's good that he's promoting the cause, but where's the money going to come from? This is the same hurdle we've been talking about since the beginning, only it's gotten worse as the years have gone on. No money, no arena. And unfortunately for local fans, no arena, eventually no Kings. Either now or later.
 
the problem with a lot of the threads at kingsfans.com these days is that philosophies are at odds without posters acknowledging such differences in philosophy. we have to start asking ourselves some very uncomfortable questions regarding our priorities. i am a graduate student at chico state, but i grew up in roseville, and i've been a kings fan my whole life. i should note, though, that i am not fond of my hometown, and i've never thought of the sacramento area as a particularly attractive place for me to live, so, as somebody who does not intend to tie myself to the area for the remainder of my existence, my opinion will be skewed away from the more popular opinions. however, i think there are still questions worth asking:

why does one support a professional sports franchise to begin with? because of the players? they come and go. because of the style of play? coaching staffs come and go. because of the win/loss record? wins come and go. because of the rivalries? those come and go. because of the city? teams come and go, and, more importantly, with 30 nba teams, and so many thousands of cities across the country, how does the rest of the population affiliate itself? its an old seinfeld joke, but truly, what an individual is rooting for is the jersey. and even those change. so what is there to really hold onto?

i think people wrap themselves up in sports far too much. its not just an american phenomenon, either. but beyond that rather large philosophical point of emphasis, people have a tendency to claim ownership of things that were never theirs to begin with. we want the kings to be "ours," but they were kansas city's before that. and rochester's before that. the team doesn't belong to us. it belongs to rich people who have nothing better to do. this reality couldn't be more clear than it is for sacramento right now. the nba--and all professional sports institutions, at that--is just a collection of very wealthy people showing off their wealth. government functions the same way. its often just powerful people showing off their power. so why should john and jane q. smith sports fans even bother attempting to align themselves with any of these self-interested individuals? they shouldn't. be autonomous, i say.

the maloofs own the kings as a franchise. the fans do not. they can hang a 6th man banner in the rafters, and that's a lovely gesture, but ultimately, the maloofs can do what they want with their team. is it fair to the fans? probably not, especially in anaheim, where there will be an incredible embarrassment of riches with the lakers and clippers right next door. but do the fans even matter in a business environment dominated by the filthy rich? probably not, as well. now is that fair? absolutely not. but that's capitalism. the maloofs may be bad businessmen, but so what? this is america. they have the right to be bad businessmen. what do the maloofs owe the city of sacramento? or you and i? the fans are paying customers, to be sure, and i believe you treat your market with respect. but truth be told, there are paying customers all over the place, and if viable nba business can't get done in sacramento, it'll get done elsewhere.

also, the 17,000+ that used to show up to arco arena nightly were hardly all coming from the city proper itself. a multi-purpose entertainment complex benefits the economy of sacramento, the CITY. there are some trickle-down effects in the direction of surrounding communities, where many of the fans exist, but mostly its the city of sacramento that benefits from a civic standpoint. roseville and lincoln, for example, aren't getting slices of that pie, but i know a lot of kings fans from both of those communities, so what of them? they could show up to arco arena and picket in an attempt to convince the maloofs to stay, but it all boils down to arena politics, and an arena won't be built because of a constituency that exists outside of the province of sacramento. again, its a question of ownership. its not our team, at a fundamental level. it is our team on an emotional level, but the dollar and reason are going to sway ownership so much more than the fan and emotion. if the team one roots for happens to be in a larger market that suits the nba's current business model, then good for those fans. they only have to worry about the win/loss record. the same goes for fans whose teams have insanely rich owners that can bleed resources to keep their team in what would otherwise be an unsustainable market with the nba's current business model. but it's just a roll of the dice. sacramento got the maloofs, who went to great lengths trying to bring a championship to sacramento in the early-2000's, lest we all forget. but, at this point, kings fans are, unfortunately, not among those who don't have to concern themselves with whether or not their team is going to leave.

that's life. the nba's current business model is just not sustainable in smaller markets with outdated arenas. the nba are the bad guys here, by the way. the league is considering contraction in some of its cities because it screwed itself over with a model that can't combat difficult economic times. and all business models in entertainment industries need to be prepared for difficult economic times, because entertainment is the first thing cut from every household's budget when the wallet begins to suffer. i am a kings fan. i am not a sacramento fan. i root for the kings because it was geographically convenient for a very long time. it won't be geographically convenient anymore, but does that matter? it wouldn't seem so, given the attendance at arco arena the last few years. the team's losing, so the fans don't show up. but that was one of my questions above. does one throw their support behind a team solely because of win/loss record? blame the economy, i suppose, but two plus two still equals four, last time i checked. everybody has known for quite some time that the maloofs have been considering relocating the kings. the pressure's been on for ten years, and low attendance was never going to convince the maloofs to stay. its a bummer of a reality, but fans needed to take advantage of all of the insanely cheap ticket deals and packages if the kings were ever going to stay. fans needed to pony up the cash they would have otherwise saved because of tough economic times. is it fair? once again, it is not. but business in america has never been fair. if sacramento kings fans in the sacramento area valued their team enough, there would be a dollar value attached to the emotional commitment, and the chances that the kings would stay would have been increased. but even then, it was no guarantee.

in general, small markets often have these tremendous inferiority complexes when it comes to professional sports, as if an entrenched kings team in anaheim wouldn't someday have a loyal following of die-hard fans worth just as much to their team as sacramento fans were to the kings at the turn of the millenium. we want to believe otherwise, but that's just the resentment creeping through. it takes some time for a franchise in a new city to cement a bond with their fans, but are oklahoma city fans any less deserving to have a team to rightfully or wrongfully call their own just because things fell apart in seattle? once again, sense of ownership is misplaced on the part of the fan. but i guess that's also part of being a fan: it drives the sensibility of the individual beyond reason. i will root for the kings until i have a reason to root for somebody else. what reason will that be? i have no idea. i guess that's up to me to decide. should i root for the warriors because they're now the closest game in town? or the blazers because portland is one of my favorite city's on the west coast. or the thunder because sam presti is "doing it right." or the boston celtics because they're a storied franchise who wins a lot? or the heat because they're the flavor of the season? or the knicks because they're the flavor of the month? it'll probably be for none of those reasons. it'll probably end up being something illogical, because that's the nature of sports fandom.

now, i understand why so many here are upset. its just fascinating to me that kingsfans.com seems so blindsided by all of this. how long has the "new arena" forum been open? years? how long have all of us known that the kings needed a new arena to stay? even more years? how many failed attempts at getting an arena deal brokered has kingsfans.com personally witnessed? how many appraisals has kingsfans.com witnessed of the likelihood of such an arena deal becoming a reality? how many of those more recent appraisals have determined an arena deal's simple lack of viability in sacramento in a recession? the answers to these questions are well known to all who have been committed to the issue for awhile now, and that doesn't mean that kings fans should give up hope that their team might stay. however, there always was very little that any of the little people could accomplish, beyond investing in the kings monetarily. some things are just out of our control. we can blame whoever we want. sometimes its useful to vent anger in the direction of some force of power that we don't interact with regularly. but i think its more useful to consider just what it is you are a fan of. if it's a team that is, at present, called the kings, then there's no reason to stop rooting for them. if it's a city called sacramento, then i suppose you'll just have to wait and see if another nba team rolls into town. if its a history called the sacramento kings as you've followed them for the last twenty-five years, then it might be time to start letting go, unfortunate as it is. memories don't change. attitudes do, but memories aren't going anywhere, and it is possible to make new ones, whether with a team in another city or with a new sacramento franchise, should the future dictate such a circumstance.
 
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Point about the ballot measure was that it put a strain in the relationship between the City and the Maloofs -- not anything to do with the passing of Q and R, but the aftermath ---

You ask where's the money going to come from? Isn't that what the ICON group is going to answer in 90 days???? They have built over 17 arenas nationally, pretty sure they could come up with something creative (hotel tax, rental car tax, etc..)

You're right, you do really come across as a Maloof apoligist, whether by intention or not......

This is what I believe -- THE MALOOFS DO NOT CURRENTLY WANT AN ARENA PLAN TO SUCCEED IN SACRAMENTO -- they want to leave and if the city magically came up with a plan, they couldn't.....
 
Even KJ said yesterday in his press conference that the Maloofs do not feel comfortable handing over the financial documents... this has been all over the news here in Sac.... why wouldn't they want to hand over that information?

I never said that Joe Maloof caused the defeat of Q and R, I just said that he came out and made a statement that was contrary to what everyone else (by that I mean City officials) thought he was going to say. You don't think that could've caused a strain in the relationship between the Maloofs and the City? If you were the Mayor or Rob Fong, wouldn't you think that they weren't being genuine when they go off and make statements to the press contrary to the entire plan?

I was saying that KJ should be given an opportunity to at least see what the ICON/Taylor group comes back with..... remember he didn't start the whole "Convergence Plan" idea that cost us a couple of years -- that was the brainchild of the NBA's John Moag.....

Because then we'd all find out that all the "cash" the Kings have been getting via salary dumping has been going towards butt and face lifts, underage hookers, and Beenie babies.
 
I'm trying really hard to wrap my mind around your perception of the Maloofs. And I can't. Because the facts just don't support it. From the moment the Maloofs took over ownership of the Kings, people started accusing them of being carpetbaggers. From day one they were accused of buying the team with the intention of moving it to Las Vegas, or some other destination that was closer to their base of operation. They denied it from the beginning. And they've been denying it every year for the last 12 years. All they've asked for is a new arena. Other than that, until now, they've done nothing to make anyone beleive that they wanted to move the team.

You say that their timing is bad. In what way? Would next year be better? Or would it have been better 2 or 3 years ago? I mean, is there a good time for them to leave? This arena problem has been there for 10 years, and nothing has been done. Some of that is the fault of the Maloofs, and some is the fault of the city. No one is perfect in this equation. But Regardless of guilt, there's still no arena. There's still no approved arena deal. And there's no guarantee that the pending one will come to fruition. Hope and patience only travel so far. To suggest that they should just put up with the old arena until the cows come home isn't going to work. And they won't do it.

Folks are accusing them of being bad businessmen. And at the same time getting angry at them for wanting a better product to sell to the public. The arena as well as the team is part of the product. Your asking them to accept the worse of both worlds. Operating in a small market, and doing so with an inferior arena. While they're out there competing with big market teams with new or newer arena's. I honestly don't think they bought the team to get rich off of. But it does have to make a profit. And it has to be able to make a profit when the payroll is maxed out, and not at its current level.

You can be angry at them if you want to. I think its misplaced, and certainly won't change anything. In basic terms, the Maloofs have a product. The Kings! It will cost money to have that product here. If no one is willing to pay the price for that product, then they'll sell it to someone else. At the moment, the price is a new arena. You can call them selfish, arrogant, or whatever you want. Bottom line, its their product, and thats the price. Its really that simple. The guy at the corner grocery store uses the same principles. You want a bottle of milk, you pay for it. The Maloofs aren't a charity institution. They have donated 30 million dollars to the sacramento community over the last 12 years though. Bah Humbug, that doesn't count for anything. They're still selfish bastards.

In the end they will move the team.. They will also be moving the team close to their base of operations.. So even if it came 10-12 years after the fact that people were saying they would do it does that mean it wasn't part of their "master plan" to begin with? Rumors start for a reason. They might have used this whole arena scandal to make it easier to point the finger at sacramento and say "Wahhh we tried!".

Bottom line is I am pointing the finger at both the Maloofs and the city of Sac. Both are retarded in my book.
 
Because then we'd all find out that all the "cash" the Kings have been getting via salary dumping has been going towards butt and face lifts, underage hookers, and Beenie babies.

Yah this whole salary dumping thing and having the lowest payroll had me thinking too at the start of the season. I knew something was going on.. Gut feeling..
 
Point about the ballot measure was that it put a strain in the relationship between the City and the Maloofs -- not anything to do with the passing of Q and R, but the aftermath ---

You ask where's the money going to come from? Isn't that what the ICON group is going to answer in 90 days???? They have built over 17 arenas nationally, pretty sure they could come up with something creative (hotel tax, rental car tax, etc..)

The Taylor/ICON project is to determine whether a plan can be worked up to build and fund an arena. The question, to this point, is not specifically how the deal gets funded. That comes later. First we have to determine whether it can be done at all, and make money for the region. I think they can come up with something creative, but then again, it's been several years that developers have been trying to come up with something.

You're right, you do really come across as a Maloof apoligist, whether by intention or not......

This is what I believe -- THE MALOOFS DO NOT CURRENTLY WANT AN ARENA PLAN TO SUCCEED IN SACRAMENTO -- they want to leave and if the city magically came up with a plan, they couldn't.....

And you come off as a jilted lover. Not that I blame you. I get that. But it doesn't mean that your hunch is correct, particularly when the Maloofs have been trying to get an arena built for over a decade. An ownership group that doesn't want to stay would just move, no extensions, no proposals, no ballot measures ... ask Clay Bennett. If you want to move, you just move.
 
Staples center numbers..... why is this so hard for sac to get done?

Private ownership

Cost to build 375 mil
Public money 58 mil
Staples 20 year contract 100 mil
Balance of 217 mil paid by the teams.

and they have never had a 100% sell out season.
 
The Palms failed because of the biggest economic collapse since the Great Depression. To say the Mallofs are bad businesses men, because of that means it was easy to see coming. That is just patently false. Either that or there are a whole lot of bad businessmen out there, or they are part of a very large group of bad businessmen.

I'm not saying they are blameless in this. I think their public relations person(s) was either terrible at their job or the Maloofs weren't listening to the advice.

Also, Thomas was to blame for not lowering ticket costs and making ticket packages, including season ticlets more flexible. That's why they finally fired him midway through the season last year. They should have done that sooner. They also should have let Petrie blow-up the team sooner, to start a rebuild. They shouldn't have given such huge salaries to certain players during the good times. Altho, I'm quite sure the fans would have screamed in outrage if they hadn't paid to keep Webber and Bibby. It was like they were bidding against themselves, though. They are also too emotional and sensitive for their own good sometimes. They have acted immature, at times, as well.

But honestly, public funding was always going to be the necessary piece and the city just couldn't get its act together. Which doesn't surprise me. Sacramento has been pretty inept as a city, although state and federal governement have been responsible for a lot of the ugly development/architecture downtown.

Sacramento just hasn't ever seemed to get the fact that we have been in competition with cities with more to offer a franchise for a long time. When the Maloofs bought the team, Sacramento was lucky they didn't lose the team then. It was certainly a choice the Maloofs could have made, just like Seattle's out-of-town buyer or like Greg Lukenbill, when he bought the team away from Kansas City. We were given a ten year reprieve by the Maloofs. If I were them, I'd probably look back and think I should have moved the team then, before they got really good and they couldv'e gotten a much nicer arena in a lot of cities.
 
The Maloofs are horrible owners, they are not street smart and they obviously don't know what to do with a basketball franchise. I'd say they are the main VICTIMS.
 
The Palms failed because of the biggest economic collapse since the Great Depression. To say the Mallofs are bad businesses men, because of that means it was easy to see coming. That is just patently false. Either that or there are a whole lot of bad businessmen out there, or they are part of a very large group of bad businessmen.

Over extending, taking on too much debt, starting business that are not part of your core business are the main reasons for bad businessmen. They should have waiting to have more capital to start those business, not take on more debt.

Look at it this way. Would you agree they are in worse financial trouble now than when their father died in the early 80's? If yes, dont forget the early 80's wasnt the greatest of economies either. So they have gone through a boom in the 90's and early this decade only to see it crash down worse then where they started.

It's been almost 20 years since I got my degree in business finance and one thing that I learned was never take on more than you can chew and always have a plan if your cash flow becomes non existant.
 
In case people weren't aware, the Maloofs were in the casino industry prior to taking ownership of the Kings. They had some casino interests outside Vegas and then built the Fiesta in 1994. They were also minority partners at one point in the Stations casinos. Its not like the Palms was some big overreach on their part. Steve Wynn has nearly bankrupted himself multiple times due to overbuilding, happens to the best in the business.
 
In case people weren't aware, the Maloofs were in the casino industry prior to taking ownership of the Kings. They had some casino interests outside Vegas and then built the Fiesta in 1994. They were also minority partners at one point in the Stations casinos. Its not like the Palms was some big overreach on their part. Steve Wynn has nearly bankrupted himself multiple times due to overbuilding, happens to the best in the business.

But expanding the Palms was the mistake. The leveraged the first to build the second.
 
Over extending, taking on too much debt, starting business that are not part of your core business are the main reasons for bad businessmen. They should have waiting to have more capital to start those business, not take on more debt.

Look at it this way. Would you agree they are in worse financial trouble now than when their father died in the early 80's? If yes, dont forget the early 80's wasnt the greatest of economies either. So they have gone through a boom in the 90's and early this decade only to see it crash down worse then where they started.

It's been almost 20 years since I got my degree in business finance and one thing that I learned was never take on more than you can chew and always have a plan if your cash flow becomes non existant.

You hit it on the head Section 101.
There were a lot of people who refused to believe that the good times would end. Those of us who talked about the bubble bursting were called polly annas, killjoys, etc.
Even though I have no college education I run my own business and knew enough to plan for the downtimes. I did not overextend myself and have rode pretty high so far. The maloofs in turn were idiots. They way overextended themselves. They took out MASSIVE loans to build a new condo tower while other companies were doing the same. For the life of me I really can't see how they didn't see what was coming. That's why I think they're morons for pissing away their fathers hard earned money.
 
You hit it on the head Section 101.
There were a lot of people who refused to believe that the good times would end. Those of us who talked about the bubble bursting were called polly annas, killjoys, etc.
Even though I have no college education I run my own business and knew enough to plan for the downtimes. I did not overextend myself and have rode pretty high so far. The maloofs in turn were idiots. They way overextended themselves. They took out MASSIVE loans to build a new condo tower while other companies were doing the same. For the life of me I really can't see how they didn't see what was coming. That's why I think they're morons for pissing away their fathers hard earned money.

I don't think the Maloofs are great economists. I think they hired some people that they thought knew what they were talking about, had some projects they wanted to undertake, and went for it.

There were a lot of companies that did a lot of expanding during the past decade, including some top level Fortune 500 companies, and suffered huge losses. I don't think that necessarily makes the people running those companies idiots or morons.
 
But expanding the Palms was the mistake. The leveraged the first to build the second.
Sure, but they were very successful in the casino biz up until then which defeats the meme that they were naive spoiled brats who squandered their inheritance. Truth was they simply got too greedy during the real estate bubble like many others and took their eye off the prize. A bubble that crushed bigger men than them.

Why they didn't see it coming, I haven't a clue. I got so sick and tired of reading about the bubble in 2005 it was a big reason I got the hell out of LA and bought twice the house for half the money in Portland.
 
But expanding the Palms was the mistake. The leveraged the first to build the second.
They borrowed, just like people that buy homes. It only seems like a bad idea in retrospect. No one saw this economic collapse coming. Well a few people did, but they were pretty much ignored. (I knew the home mortage industry was riding for a fall at least 10 years ago. (My bosses didn't want to hear it.)
 
They borrowed, just like people that buy homes. It only seems like a bad idea in retrospect. No one saw this economic collapse coming. Well a few people did, but they were pretty much ignored. (I knew the home mortage industry was riding for a fall at least 10 years ago. (My bosses didn't want to hear it.)

Then they took out an equity loan to buy more.
 
its just fascinating to me that kingsfans.com seems so blindsided by all of this.

It's not that we didn't know that the team could move - it's that we thought we were safe this year. Lots of reasons why. #1 is the City Council's earnest attempt to get something done with the Taylor/ICON group. There was the new PBP sponsorship deal. There was the threat of lockout making this maybe not an advantageous year to move. Obviously next year was going to be trouble if the Taylor/ICON plan didn't come through, but we thought this year was OK up until the All-Star break. Then we got blindsided with the idea that we could possibly have a workable arena deal in two months, yet still lose the team before the plan could come to fruition. We thought we had one more year. That's the blindside here.
 
You know, through all of this, I think the Maloofs have done a good job of leaving the door open to stay in Sac, and I think they intentionally have done so.

What they can do, if a deal does come together for an arena in Sac, and then somehow everything is in place and copasetic, from a $$ point of view, all they'll have to do is say, "We're so glad it finally happened. Yes, we had a back-up plan in place, but we have been hoping for a deal in Sac so we could stay here and be supported by the best fans on the planet. We hope they can understand that we wanted to stay all along."

I think all would be forgiven if that is the case, rather than Sac appearing like a second choice, which is interesting to note in this whole process.
 
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