Are the Maloofs really the good guys/victims in all of this?

why does one support a professional sports franchise to begin with? because of the players? they come and go. because of the style of play? coaching staffs come and go. because of the win/loss record? wins come and go. because of the rivalries? those come and go. because of the city? teams come and go, and, more importantly, with 30 nba teams, and so many thousands of cities across the country, how does the rest of the population affiliate itself? its an old seinfeld joke, but truly, what an individual is rooting for is the jersey. and even those change. so what is there to really hold onto?

I don't think that's really true though. Or at least it's not fair to equate it to the year-to-year changes in players, coaches, jersey styles, etc. that you're equating it to. I've been a basketball fan for 20 or so years. During that time there has always been a Sacramento Kings team. If we were talking about a nomadic team which is in a new location every 5 years, that's one thing. What we're actually talking about here is a regional institution. It's reasonable, I think, to react to a regional mainstay differently than a strictly corporate entity. I have no loyalty to McDonald's or Jack in the Box or 7-11 even though I've known them just as long as I've known the Kings. If those franchises close up and move somewhere else, whatever. They were never really a part of Sacramento anyway. If the Sunflower Drive-In in Fair Oaks closes, to pick just one example, I'll be very sad. Because it's not just a logo and a billboard, it's something that is unique to that place. Something that is irreplaceable.

It's not necessarily about the city itself. I haven't lived in Sacramento for 10 years. I've lived in the LA area now longer than I ever lived in Sacramento. I don't continue to support the Kings because it's regionally convenient and I don't do it just because my family still lives there. None of them watch basketball nearly as much as I do anyway. I think I continue to support the Sacramento Kings because they're a part of me, a part of my childhood, pleasant memories with my family, shared experiences with like-minded fans. I invest my time and money in the team not because I think the Maloofs are good people, not because I feel like I owe Kings basketball something, but because I appreciate the experiences I've had through watching the team. That's what has value to me. And I want those experiences to continue.

If we were all just rooting for a logo this whole time, the Kings brand, I don't think people would be nearly as upset about this. And that's basically what you're suggesting isn't it? But what if NBA teams rotated cities every 5 years. The LA Lakers become the Minnesota Lakers then the Detroit Lakers then the Kansas City Lakers. Would people follow the same team? Would you root for whichever team happened to be passing through your town at that time? Would you just root for whichever team had the best players? Or would that completely change your attitude about what it meant to even be a sports fan? If sports leagues actually worked that way I don't think I would actively root for anyone. What's the point? That's all this comes down to. What's the point? This has happened before and it will happen again, but it hasn't happened to me before. And yes, it does rather dramatically effect my relationship to sports fandom.

And I also think there's a bigger issue here which speaks to regional pride. David Stern never talks about moving the Lakers or the Knicks. The Bulls seem pretty set. These teams are protected by their big city locations and NBA history. By some accident of happenstance, Miami is now suddenly a powerhouse but different circumstances might have seen that team facing contraction or relocation right now. Indiana most likely wouldn't have a team anymore except it would be incredibly embarrassing for the birthplace of the game to fold up their franchise. And yet our team is fair game. I'm sure I'm not the only one pissed off about this. Why do I matter less than all of these other fans?

I get the same thing in baseball. Nobody thinks the A's are going to stay in Oakland much longer. Aside from lifelong A's fans like myself, no one cares. They've won 4 World Series titles in Oakland. No one cares. Would anyone dare mention moving the Yankees? God no. The Red Sox? How am I not supposed to take that personally? No it has nothing to do with me, to any of them. I'm just a statistic. I'm one potential fan out of billions. The bottom line is going to determine their decisions, not my sense of personal identity. In some sense I've always known this, but it was convenient to pretend otherwise. But when someone essentially tells you that you're worthless to them, would you keep coming back or would you move on? Not everyone reacts in the same way. I move on and I don't look back. It's not a choice to me, it's the only choice. I'm just stubborn that way.
 
Personally, I think fans should boycott all the games for the rest of the season. Don't give these scumbag owners your money any longer. At this point you're only helping pay for their move to Anaheim.
 
The Maloofs bad businessmen? Hardly:

(From NBA.com)

"In 1994, the family made a $10 million investment in a small piece of property in North Las Vegas, building the quaint 30,000-square foot, 100-room Fiesta Casino Hotel. After a pair of expansive renovations, the 75,000-square foot Fiesta became one of the most profitable hotel casinos per square foot in the entire state of Nevada. In fact, in an August ‘99 edition of USA Today, the Fiesta Casino Hotel was voted one of the world's 10 greatest gambling destinations, ranking with the likes of the Bellagio and Caesars Palace in Las Vegas and the Trump Taj Mahal Casino Resort in Atlantic City. In July of 2000, the Maloof family sold the operating interest in the Fiesta Hotel Casino for over $185 million. The family immediately re-invested the money into the construction of the Palms, originally a $285 million hotel casino just off the Las Vegas strip which opened for business on November 15, 2001."

In about 6 years they turned $10 million into $185 million. What damaged the Maloofs was the economy. The family also lost a lot of money with their Wells Fargo stocks but they will eventually make it up if they hold on to their stocks.

Many, many businesses around the country suffered greatly during the meltdown. Las Vegas is all about disposable income. I don't think most people that lose their jobs, homes and that collect unemployment go to Las Vegas to spend their money. The recession has affected lots of people not just the Maloof family.
 
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I don't think that's really true though. Or at least it's not fair to equate it to the year-to-year changes in players, coaches, jersey styles, etc. that you're equating it to. I've been a basketball fan for 20 or so years. During that time there has always been a Sacramento Kings team. If we were talking about a nomadic team which is in a new location every 5 years, that's one thing. What we're actually talking about here is a regional institution. It's reasonable, I think, to react to a regional mainstay differently than a strictly corporate entity. I have no loyalty to McDonald's or Jack in the Box or 7-11 even though I've known them just as long as I've known the Kings. If those franchises close up and move somewhere else, whatever. They were never really a part of Sacramento anyway. If the Sunflower Drive-In in Fair Oaks closes, to pick just one example, I'll be very sad. Because it's not just a logo and a billboard, it's something that is unique to that place. Something that is irreplaceable.

It's not necessarily about the city itself. I haven't lived in Sacramento for 10 years. I've lived in the LA area now longer than I ever lived in Sacramento. I don't continue to support the Kings because it's regionally convenient and I don't do it just because my family still lives there. None of them watch basketball nearly as much as I do anyway. I think I continue to support the Sacramento Kings because they're a part of me, a part of my childhood, pleasant memories with my family, shared experiences with like-minded fans. I invest my time and money in the team not because I think the Maloofs are good people, not because I feel like I owe Kings basketball something, but because I appreciate the experiences I've had through watching the team. That's what has value to me. And I want those experiences to continue.

If we were all just rooting for a logo this whole time, the Kings brand, I don't think people would be nearly as upset about this. And that's basically what you're suggesting isn't it? But what if NBA teams rotated cities every 5 years. The LA Lakers become the Minnesota Lakers then the Detroit Lakers then the Kansas City Lakers. Would people follow the same team? Would you root for whichever team happened to be passing through your town at that time? Would you just root for whichever team had the best players? Or would that completely change your attitude about what it meant to even be a sports fan? If sports leagues actually worked that way I don't think I would actively root for anyone. What's the point? That's all this comes down to. What's the point? This has happened before and it will happen again, but it hasn't happened to me before. And yes, it does rather dramatically effect my relationship to sports fandom.

And I also think there's a bigger issue here which speaks to regional pride. David Stern never talks about moving the Lakers or the Knicks. The Bulls seem pretty set. These teams are protected by their big city locations and NBA history. By some accident of happenstance, Miami is now suddenly a powerhouse but different circumstances might have seen that team facing contraction or relocation right now. Indiana most likely wouldn't have a team anymore except it would be incredibly embarrassing for the birthplace of the game to fold up their franchise. And yet our team is fair game. I'm sure I'm not the only one pissed off about this. Why do I matter less than all of these other fans?

I get the same thing in baseball. Nobody thinks the A's are going to stay in Oakland much longer. Aside from lifelong A's fans like myself, no one cares. They've won 4 World Series titles in Oakland. No one cares. Would anyone dare mention moving the Yankees? God no. The Red Sox? How am I not supposed to take that personally? No it has nothing to do with me, to any of them. I'm just a statistic. I'm one potential fan out of billions. The bottom line is going to determine their decisions, not my sense of personal identity. In some sense I've always known this, but it was convenient to pretend otherwise. But when someone essentially tells you that you're worthless to them, would you keep coming back or would you move on? Not everyone reacts in the same way. I move on and I don't look back. It's not a choice to me, it's the only choice. I'm just stubborn that way.

Remember a few years back when that A&W location closed near Gothe Park? It got a bunch of healdlines.. It was part of Sac FOREVER.. Whenever a Taco Bell closes or a McDonalds (unless it was the first one in town) it would get not even a section of the last page in the newspaper.
 
The Maloofs bad businessmen? Hardly:

(From NBA.com)

"In 1994, the family made a $10 million investment in a small piece of property in North Las Vegas, building the quaint 30,000-square foot, 100-room Fiesta Casino Hotel. After a pair of expansive renovations, the 75,000-square foot Fiesta became one of the most profitable hotel casinos per square foot in the entire state of Nevada. In fact, in an August ‘99 edition of USA Today, the Fiesta Casino Hotel was voted one of the world's 10 greatest gambling destinations, ranking with the likes of the Bellagio and Caesars Palace in Las Vegas and the Trump Taj Mahal Casino Resort in Atlantic City.

In July of 2000, the Maloof family sold the operating interest in the Fiesta Hotel Casino for over $185 million. The family immediately re-invested the money into the construction of the Palms, originally a $285 million hotel casino just off the Las Vegas strip which opened for business on November 15, 2001."

In about 6 years they turned $10 million into $185 million. What damaged the Maloofs was the economy. The family also lost a lot of money with their Wells Fargo stocks but they will eventually make it up if they hold on to their stocks.

Many, many businesses around the country suffered greatly during the meltdown. Las Vegas is all about disposable income. I don't think most people that lose their jobs, homes and that collect unemployment go to Las Vegas to spend their money. The recession has affected lots of people not just the Maloof family.

What about the whole Madoff Ponzi scheme.. Didn't they lose about 100mil or something close to that?
 
You know, through all of this, I think the Maloofs have done a good job of leaving the door open to stay in Sac, and I think they intentionally have done so.

That's impossible. There is no way the maloofs can stay here now. The arena would be empty. Im afraid that bridge has been burned.
 
The Maloofs bad businessmen? Hardly:

(From NBA.com)

"In 1994, the family made a $10 million investment in a small piece of property in North Las Vegas, building the quaint 30,000-square foot, 100-room Fiesta Casino Hotel. After a pair of expansive renovations, the 75,000-square foot Fiesta became one of the most profitable hotel casinos per square foot in the entire state of Nevada. In fact, in an August ‘99 edition of USA Today, the Fiesta Casino Hotel was voted one of the world's 10 greatest gambling destinations, ranking with the likes of the Bellagio and Caesars Palace in Las Vegas and the Trump Taj Mahal Casino Resort in Atlantic City. In July of 2000, the Maloof family sold the operating interest in the Fiesta Hotel Casino for over $185 million. The family immediately re-invested the money into the construction of the Palms, originally a $285 million hotel casino just off the Las Vegas strip which opened for business on November 15, 2001."

In about 6 years they turned $10 million into $185 million. What damaged the Maloofs was the economy. The family also lost a lot of money with their Wells Fargo stocks but they will eventually make it up if they hold on to their stocks.

Many, many businesses around the country suffered greatly during the meltdown. Las Vegas is all about disposable income. I don't think most people that lose their jobs, homes and that collect unemployment go to Las Vegas to spend their money. The recession has affected lots of people not just the Maloof family.

Bigger isnt always better. This is why it's better to the smallest house in a neighborhood than the largest. Your numbers dont factor in how much debt they took on and construction costs for renovations. Those numbers dont make profit numbers.

I guess you didnt see the newspaper reports about people on welfare using the debt cards they receive for trips to vegas, cruises, strip clubs, indian casinos.

Oh, and Wells Fargo stock was already back up to where they purchased it.
 
What about the whole Madoff Ponzi scheme.. Didn't they lose about 100mil or something close to that?

Dude there is not a single multi-millionarine whose every move was a winner! Every one of those guys have lost a significant amount of money on an investment that has gone bad. It happens to all of them.

The economy has hit everyone hard including the Maloofs. So bringing up one failed investment attempt as a proof that they are **** businessmen is a hell of a long bow to draw. Every mulimillionaire has lost millions and millions of dollars because they have made crappy investment or few along the way.
 
That's impossible. There is no way the maloofs can stay here now. The arena would be empty. Im afraid that bridge has been burned.

Well, if they are holding the lighter, Sac was holding the gas. Why would any NBA team ever consider moving to the area after how the city, aside from the hardcore fans, has been totally apathetic? The city could have looked good out of all of this if they were totally committed to wanting a quality venue and professional sports, but it seems that the vast majority of people could care less if PBP was torn down tomorrow.
 
It's not that we didn't know that the team could move - it's that we thought we were safe this year. Lots of reasons why. #1 is the City Council's earnest attempt to get something done with the Taylor/ICON group. There was the new PBP sponsorship deal. There was the threat of lockout making this maybe not an advantageous year to move. Obviously next year was going to be trouble if the Taylor/ICON plan didn't come through, but we thought this year was OK up until the All-Star break. Then we got blindsided with the idea that we could possibly have a workable arena deal in two months, yet still lose the team before the plan could come to fruition. We thought we had one more year. That's the blindside here.

kings fans were always safe "this year," for the 2010-2011 season. the maloofs would have had to apply for relocation last march in order to move the team this season. of course, 2011-2012 falls under this calendar year, but people still should have seen it coming A LONG WAYS OFF...

taylor/icon group are evaluating the viability of a new sports and entertainment complex in the city of sacramento. if that doesn't sound like step #1 (instead of step #73,965 that the project should be on by now), i don't know what does. the results of that evaluation are likely to read: NOT LIKELY. and then what? even if it turns out that a new arena is viable, once again: then what? icon/taylor would still have to put together a plan to fund the damn thing. i take back my earlier comment about this evaluation being step #1. its step #0. putting a plan together would be step #1. so, we're on step #0? seriously?! after 10 years?!?! what are the maloofs hanging around for? more deliberating? more feet-dragging? sure, kevin johnson has talked a big game, and he's even got the wheels turning a bit, but it's just gears grinding against each other at this point...

the timing couldn't be better for MSE. it obviously couldn't be worse for kings fans in sacramento, what with the team's last two draft picks showing legitimate star potential, and another high lottery pick on the way. but, for the maloofs, the time to move is now. contrary to popular belief, the threat of lockout makes it very advantageous to move, because it means that, when play resumes, a new cba will be in place, and the maloofs will be able to attract free agents to a more desirable market, with TONS of cap flexibility to do so. tyreke evans/demarcus cousins/kyrie irving/free agent 1/free agent 2 is a team on the rise, with the playoffs in their future. its also tremendous fan draw in a bigger market, with a potentially lucrative cable deal on the way, as well...

for the record, i'm not a proponent of this move. i'm heartbroken, as so many here are. however, like many others, i saw it coming, and i don't begrudge the maloofs for doing what makes sense. it sucks, to be sure. but i've never thought much of the city of sacramento, it's small-town mentality, or it's backwards-thinking lawmakers. it was always a long shot to keep the kings here. the maloofs did the best they could in spite of sacramento's unfortunate drawbacks, and they kept the team here much longer than i expected them to...

i'm happy to say that it didn't end when the team was in a win/loss purgatory, with players like shareef abdur-rahim and kenny thomas and ron artest and kevin martin leading the way. i feel so fortunate that the kings were still in sacramento long enough for me to catch a glimpse of the future. tyreke evans and demarcus cousins are just a blast to watch. even when they're playing like garbage, the fan knows the kind of potential lurks beneath the surface. its tantalizing, and if anaheim does eventually inherit the kings, i'll still be pulling for those talented young players. i will wish them the best. it'll sting, but i won't be able to help myself from watching...
 
The Maloofs have already made their minds up on moving. When they realized that the attendance increased to convince them to stay, they realized that they were suddenly making good business. I think the only reason they requested on extension for the deadline is to leech more money out of us.
 
Bigger isnt always better.

And 1997 isn't now.

In 1994, I was making $10-$20/hr. in Sac, and scrambling to even get any hours. My most valuable possession was a 15 year old car.

In 2000, I was working in Silicon Valley, making $250K, and had bought a BMW and a nice little house for cash.

This does not make me a financial genius. This was the result my ditching the Sacto rut right at the start of an economic boom + bubble, pure and simple. That trend wasn't the slightest bit sustainable, or I'd now be making millions a year. Instead, my income has dropped, as have the incomes of a huge number of people and businesses. You do your best to guess when the waves are cresting, so that you can be ready for the plunge that comes after. I built up a big cash cushion for later, to keep the family fed & housed when things reversed course, and we DID need it. And my wife went back to school and picked up a degree, as diversification + a very safe long-term investment.

The Maloof strategy was more like the opposite. The boom brought them a ton of business, because Vegas is an especially sensitive environment that way. Oil was around half its current price, so flying there was cheap, and running the AC there all the time didn't seem like a big deal. They just assumed that the overheated economy would last forever, I guess. Or that they were such business geniuses that no rules applied to them. So they got way, way deep into debt, and put all of their apples into one breaking cart.

Now they're years into the "bust" scenario. Native American casinos, and online casions, have permanently shifted the landscape to be much more hostile to Vegas, and the $1.98 gallon of gasoline will never be seen again. Vegas has one of the most thoroughly crashed economies in the whole country, and I have a hard time seeing that as unpredictable. I think it was every bit as predictable as the busting of the Internet stock bubble, or the real estate bubble, or the disappearance of Hummers, or the decline of newspapers and book stores. If you don't think about the pretty obvious directions things are headed, you're not much of a businessman.
 
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kings fans were always safe "this year," for the 2010-2011 season. the maloofs would have had to apply for relocation last march in order to move the team this season.

Yes. Obviously I meant that we thought were safe in that the Maloofs wouldn't file for relocation this year (meaning this March). That would mean that the 2011-2012 season would be played in Sacramento. We thought that if nothing progressed in the coming 12 months, that the Maloofs WOULD file for relocation in March of 2012. Did you truly not understand what I meant?
 
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