ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Think back beyond this early season
Are the Kings entering a rebuild phase?
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
Think back beyond this early season
I'd argue that the majority of political content in sport today is rather tame compared to stuff that happened in the 1900s-1970s. What isn't tame is people's reactions to content they disagree with.
Padrino
All-Star
That's not an answer to my question. You're being evasive because you know your point is ill-supported.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
You and I both know that no examples are going to change your mind. Won't waste our time any further
Padrino
All-Star
That's awfully presumptuous of you. My mind is quite open to change. But you seem uninterested in supporting your rather hyperbolic claims, so I'm left to assume that you feel there is a heavier political presence in sports today, which flies in the face of facts. Joe Lewis v. Max Schmeling. Jackie Robinson. Civil Rights. Vietnam. "Black Power" at the Olympics in 68. Pretty much every time Muhammad Ali opened his mouth. Pretty much every time Kareem Abdul-Jabbar opened his mouth. The Cold War. Rodney King. Sept. 11. All of these events and many, many more found politics intersecting with sports, and often in a considerably more confrontational way than sports viewers are used to today.
Plus soccer hooliganism is almost always tied to class politics, sectarian politics, and nationalist politics. And entire clubs are founded initially by labor, immigrants, and then there's St. Pauli (God bless St. Pauli). Nearly every Olympics but especially between 1936 and 1984. National anthems played before games. Military flyovers.
Is "End Racism" on an NFL sideline or Bad Bunny at halftime truly the breaking point?
It's pretty clear social media has just broken society if so.
SLAB
Hall of Famer
Plus soccer hooliganism is almost always tied to class politics, sectarian politics, and nationalist politics. And entire clubs are founded initially by labor, immigrants, and then there's St. Pauli (God bless St. Pauli). Nearly every Olympics but especially between 1936 and 1984. National anthems played before games. Military flyovers.
Is "End Racism" on an NFL sideline or Bad Bunny at halftime truly the breaking point?
I think what has really changed in the past couple of decades isn't so much the association of politics and sports (sports fandom has always been a convenient stand-in for nationalism) but rather that the collapse of legacy media has leveled the playing field and allowed a more diverse plurality of perspectives to enter the conversation. And the result has been an implosion of the illusion of mono-culture.
Whether this is a good thing (a rough patch on the way to creating a more diverse and open-minded mainstream culture) or a bad thing (cultural entropy at work as we approach some kind of global end-state) is a matter of perspective...
For those who have historically lived on the outside of this illusion, the clumsily grasping half-measures at reconciliation (the renaming of Cleveland's baseball team and Washington D.C.'s football team, for example, or the introduction of Jackie Robinson day) may read as a kind of progress, if only for the simple reason that their existence outside of the mono-culture has actually been acknowledged. But for those who have lived their lives comfortably unaware of the illusion it must seem like the curated consensus of the recent past has been replaced with a cacophony of discordant voices all attempting to shout over each other.
Which isn't untrue. That is more or less the uncomfortable cultural moment we now find ourselves in. But those voices have always been there, they just lacked a means of amplification before.
QWERTYLICIOUS
Starter
Politics will always be a part of sports, and it will always be a significant part of sports, whether one chooses to admit it or not. I'd argue against your point that "most use sports as entertainment to get away from that" permanently. But if you speak of only temporarily (which your comment doesn't clearly distinguish), then you most likely have yourself a strong case. Asking for a 100% political free sports environment is like asking for the world to always be perfect - the possibility is virtually non-existent.
Dime Dropper
All-Star
Thankfully it looks like this draft is shaping up nicely at the top. A top 5 pick could go a long way towards kick-starting the rebuild.
My top 5 as it currently stands:
1. Mikel Brown Jr
2. Darryn Peterson
3. Caleb Wilson
4. AJ Dybantsa
5. Cam Boozer
Plenty of other interesting prospects who may move into that top 5.
My top 5 as it currently stands:
1. Mikel Brown Jr
2. Darryn Peterson
3. Caleb Wilson
4. AJ Dybantsa
5. Cam Boozer
Plenty of other interesting prospects who may move into that top 5.
Insomniacal Fan
Starter
I think that algorithmic recommended culture has made it easy for people to find safe spaces, communities and content that affirms, and does not challenge them. The ability for people to co-exist, get along and moderate themselves has atrophied as everyone is stuck in a comfortable cage of their own base preferences.
Spectator sports is one of the few places in culture where people from diverse backgrounds (diversity across race, ethnicity, class, wealth, physicality, education, social beliefs, nationality, religion etc...) actually come together to make a thing happen. Sports hasn't suddenly become political (as pointed out elsewhere, it has always been political, in overt and covert ways), but I think people have become less inclined or able to try and get along with each other, and sports is one of the few places left where people interact with "the other" in a collaborative way.
Spectator sports is one of the few places in culture where people from diverse backgrounds (diversity across race, ethnicity, class, wealth, physicality, education, social beliefs, nationality, religion etc...) actually come together to make a thing happen. Sports hasn't suddenly become political (as pointed out elsewhere, it has always been political, in overt and covert ways), but I think people have become less inclined or able to try and get along with each other, and sports is one of the few places left where people interact with "the other" in a collaborative way.
NewArena
All-Star
I remember this too, but James Ham was painting a picture of the Kings being too cheap to extend Siakam
serbiangoat
Starter
Siakam would have been another dead end overpaid player on the Kings, realistically most of Pacers success came from the fact every team they beat in the playoffs for two seasons was missing key players and the fact it's the East and now all that karma seems to have hit them back.
GWD
Bench
Perhaps the debate about politics in sports can be divided into two arenas.
1) Individual political expression such as Colin Kapernick, numerous personal racial related examples if racism is viewed as political rather than social (or perhaps both).
2) Institutional political expression such as permeates NFL activity, sport team name changes, national anthem, trans in sports, and many more examples of both arenas 1) and 2).
So an argument could be the result of conflicting references or perspectives. Thus, ShastaKingsFan, Padrino, and others could have made valid points.
1) Individual political expression such as Colin Kapernick, numerous personal racial related examples if racism is viewed as political rather than social (or perhaps both).
2) Institutional political expression such as permeates NFL activity, sport team name changes, national anthem, trans in sports, and many more examples of both arenas 1) and 2).
So an argument could be the result of conflicting references or perspectives. Thus, ShastaKingsFan, Padrino, and others could have made valid points.
The only difference between Kaepernick and Ali and Kareem is that the latter were in the GOAT conversation and Kaep was already on his way to being a backup QB.
Institutional political expression has existed since the dawn of time, but certainly that ratcheted up with modern club sports. Rangers/Celtic, Inter/AC Milan, Real/Barca those rivalries were all founded upon various political causes long before they became the dominant clubs of their leagues.
In the US this plays out more within the NCAA - much like Euro leagues while surface level it appears to be regional based it is also very much class/economics as they almost always involve private vs. public or research vs ag/tech colleges and universities. Although you can argue that certain interstate regional rivalries like NorCal vs SoCal are also political in nature.
Want my hot take? Sports culture has actually ruined political discourse in this country rather than vice versa.
Institutional political expression has existed since the dawn of time, but certainly that ratcheted up with modern club sports. Rangers/Celtic, Inter/AC Milan, Real/Barca those rivalries were all founded upon various political causes long before they became the dominant clubs of their leagues.
In the US this plays out more within the NCAA - much like Euro leagues while surface level it appears to be regional based it is also very much class/economics as they almost always involve private vs. public or research vs ag/tech colleges and universities. Although you can argue that certain interstate regional rivalries like NorCal vs SoCal are also political in nature.
Want my hot take? Sports culture has actually ruined political discourse in this country rather than vice versa.
BuddyBuckets
Bench
Im good with this, wonder if Portland would give yang instead of clingan. Clingan probably a better rim protector behind sabonis, yang higher upside for sac.
The only issue i see here, does Portland really want that many long term deals? They just extended sharpe/camara. They paid lillard. Then they have jrue/Grant making big money. Scoot is going to be making 14 next year + extension eligible.
BuddyBuckets
Bench
Imo its not fully rigged, but it is influenced when theres a need. Like Boston, LAL, Philly finishing with top 3 picks 3 years in a row. Then teams like detroit/washington consistently getting dropped.
Spurs getting wemby was actually perfect for the NBA. They dont entirely hate small markets, they hate incompetent small markets. Spurs arent that, they've had 20 years of sustained success and proven development of bigs.
This year im heavily expecting Indiana to get the #1 pick so Hali has a long term star next to him. I also expect Boston to "jump" if they find themselves outside the playoffs.
What happens after that between sac, Brooklyn, Utah, washington, Charlotte? I dont think the NBA really cares.
So imagine indiana gets #1, Boston jumps to 3, thats predetermined. Now the rest of the junk teams truly go into a lotto for the rest od the spots.
Thats just my opinion
Grant has 2.5 years on his deal. If we gave them Domas we could realistically ask them to include one of their young bigs plus at least two future firsts arguable they’d still need to add to that package. Then we’ll have a stack of expiring deals over the next few years we can move for picks. Don’t want a bunch of useless “movable pieces” Portland has failed to move during the past few major trading windows (two offseasons and one trade deadline).
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
This has honestly been the least political season of basketball I can remember in a long while. Even the big scandals have somehow skirted any sort of political angle despite the FBI being involved in one of them.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Honestly feels like the Scoot ship left the harbor when they got Dame back and is now fully sailed into the horizon with the whole “Coach getting arrested” thing.
Might not be a bad “buy low” candidate as a part of a trade tbh
Scoot, Clingan, Grant + two FRP for Domas and Dennis?
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Think I’d rather take a lesser piece from them than Clingan and get a third pick out of it instead
In a heartbeat.
(I don’t love Clingan)
Dime Dropper
All-Star
Yeah, I really don't care about mock draft consensus. My opinion may change, but right now Brown Jr looks to have the clearest route to stardom. He really has everything - size, athleticism, handles, shooting, high IQ, and leadership. While there are other great prospects, they have more question marks over them. Brown Jr reminds me of an even bigger, more athletic Lillard. Which is potential All-NBA territory.
That's great and all, but let's get down to what actually matters.
What's his standing reach?
Dime Dropper
All-Star
Funnily enough, his arms look freakishly long to me, so it's probably pretty high.
Obviously, what we're really waiting to see is his double jump...
Joshyjosh31
Starter
Isn’t Miami I always in the playoffs the last draft pick they had in the top 10 was 2015 at 10 how could they rig that big of a jump pre new lottery
No fewer than two teams have jumped for 14 to 1. If it were rigged, it shouldn't be that hard. Frankly, if it were rigged, why would it even make a difference whether it's a new system, or not? You don't believe it's legit, anyway.