ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Dallas got Flagg with very low odds, right after they gave away a top talent to the Lakers. I will never believe that was a coincidence
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Are the Kings entering a rebuild phase?
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Dallas got Flagg with very low odds, right after they gave away a top talent to the Lakers. I will never believe that was a coincidence
I also cited that as evidence in the for rigging category. It's just that there is enough examples of "there's no way they'd do that" to go the other way. For every "obviously that's rigged" there is a "no way they'd rig that". That's the point I'm trying to make.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Fair enough. They "can't" make it completely obvious every draft
This is also true. The main issue the NBA has right now is that they play favorites and everything from the draft to the officiating is suspect. Until some kind of robot AI is calling games and every play is reviewable the latter will always be suspect but I think it's high time the NBA maybe comes up with a new player allocation system.
That's not a good enough reason to rig the lottery for San Antonio. Miami is also a "solid stable organization," how come the draft never gets rigged for them?
I remember you were heavy on Jalen Johnson that draft... good call!
IIRC, I think most of us figured out either Franz or Moody would fall and that seemed like the consensus on whomever did indeed fall
Tear down=everyone not on rookie scales can and should be shopped. Meaning Keegan/Keon too. Obviously don't trade them for peanuts, but you look.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Never did understand the choice of Mitchell over Moody. Especially with the roster at that time
I don't think they've been in the lottery since the new rules went into effect (Hero and Bam their last two lotto selections).
But in their entire history they only picked in the top 3/4 once. Beasley in 2008. The crazy thing is that they have picked in the top 10 a grand total of 9 times since they entered the league in 1988 and one of those picks was from Washington and four of them were between 88-91. Talk about a model of success.
I don't know how you remember that, but you are correct
Reading through a lot of posts here to catch up - the flattened lottery odds basically dictate that "tanking" for a #1 pick is not feasible. A team should not "tank". You might get a top 5 pick if you are lucky. Maybe.
But, trading away decent vets to develop a younger team is not tanking (to me) and will (typically) naturally result in a better pick position. That's fine for where we're at right now.
All of you thinking that the draft is rigged still have no answer on why the other teams would go along with it. All the teams with a chance to win the lottery have reps in the room during the drawing, and they provide video of the drawing after. The current system is very likely 100% on the "up and up". No team would give up on a Wemby (or whoever) with a rigged draft. None. This draft rigging discussion may have been valid in the past (conspiracy theories abound about that), but the current draft - no way. Odds can be rare, but they have rewarded us one or twice as well.
The draft lottery odds/system, combined with the possibility of wasting that pick on someone like Bagley or Pervis (as we are wont to do), and the year-to-year odds of a draft class being "good" make me hesitant to bank on that as a sure-fire way to improve. Some here want to sell off everyone and stockpile picks and think we'll automatically be in the finals in 3 years. Not happening. Trading picks for good young players getting squeezed where they are at seems like a generally better use of the picks; the picks are a crapshoot and getting a known quantity is often preferable. Not always feasible, though.
Hopefully Perry is better at drafting than our wasteland of selections as detailed previously.
But, trading away decent vets to develop a younger team is not tanking (to me) and will (typically) naturally result in a better pick position. That's fine for where we're at right now.
All of you thinking that the draft is rigged still have no answer on why the other teams would go along with it. All the teams with a chance to win the lottery have reps in the room during the drawing, and they provide video of the drawing after. The current system is very likely 100% on the "up and up". No team would give up on a Wemby (or whoever) with a rigged draft. None. This draft rigging discussion may have been valid in the past (conspiracy theories abound about that), but the current draft - no way. Odds can be rare, but they have rewarded us one or twice as well.
The draft lottery odds/system, combined with the possibility of wasting that pick on someone like Bagley or Pervis (as we are wont to do), and the year-to-year odds of a draft class being "good" make me hesitant to bank on that as a sure-fire way to improve. Some here want to sell off everyone and stockpile picks and think we'll automatically be in the finals in 3 years. Not happening. Trading picks for good young players getting squeezed where they are at seems like a generally better use of the picks; the picks are a crapshoot and getting a known quantity is often preferable. Not always feasible, though.
Hopefully Perry is better at drafting than our wasteland of selections as detailed previously.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
They don't go along with it. There are fooled by the illusion, just like everyone else who believes all these coincidences happen against the odds
There are a lot of owners who just enjoy owning a team and the access and social cachet that comes with it. And the year over year increase their share of the team returns on their investment. Vivek has made his money back 10 times if valuations are to be believed and the reality is that sales always wind up going for way above their valuation.
There's revenue sharing so ultimately they don't care if there is rigging and if they get too outspoken they are put in line. When it became evident that the league was shorting us in the L2M reports they got cute with the language and rule interpretations to make it so that it was no longer the case we were getting the short end of the stick. Suddenly "contact" became open to interpretation with nonsense like "marginal" as a modifier.
But that does call back to my "why would they rig Wemby to San Antonio" question, because with revenue sharing you want your top markets in the finals, not OKC or San Antone.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
They still want enough of a spread of talent for competitive entertainment. Preferably the biggest names and talents are with the higher iQ organizations. They've already lost a lot of fans, don't want to lose more
I assume they have lost fans because the perception the league is rigged and maybe fans being priced out of attendance?
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
and interjecting politics into sports, when most use sports as entertainment to get away from that
I find that the keep politics out of sports crowd is perfectly content when the athletes share their politics. Frankly everything is political these days, even not being political. Like that damned Rush song.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
I don't. Most people don't want it as a point of focus when it comes to entertainment. It used to be a real outlet to get away from it for a while
Padrino
All-Star
It remains astonishing to me that NBA fans can't seem to square themselves with the fact that low odds does not equal no odds. I'm a college English professor who's never been particularly gifted with numbers, but I don't find it at all hard to grasp the nature of probabilistic outcomes for the effing NBA draft. The math is right there! As are the ping pong balls! On live TV! In front of the media, fans, owners, GMs, coaches, players, and other assorted stakeholders! It's about as transparent as a professional sports league can be without allowing each and every one of us to inspect the lottery process from end to end. The conspiracy-addled would be well-served by reading just a little bit about probability.
It's not even possible to keep politics out of sports: politics have been part of sports since sports happened. Some people just like to pretend that only certain things "count" as politics.
Padrino
All-Star
Uhm... when? Go as far back as the ancient Greek Olympics, and you will find politics amidst sporting event.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Some believe in lots of lower odds coincidences among suspicious circumstances and others don't
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Was never close to this extent in decades past. I think you know that
Padrino
All-Star
I'm very well-versed in the history of politics and sport. You will not find a decade in which politics and sport did not intersect in some meaningful way.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
again, I said not nearly to this extent. Where it's constantly pushed in the face of the fans. Of course politics is involved in big money business
That's not true, either.
Padrino
All-Star
What do you mean "pushed in the face of the fans"? When? And by whom? I've watched more than a dozen NBA games this season, and I can recall no such pushing.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
The kings media has said people in the organization says the kings can’t sign Keon until after the trade deadline, there has been some confusion on this. They like Keon , he knows this and so does his agent. I’d put at at 85/15 he is on the kings next year.