Anyone remember in the playoffs last year...
- Thread starter Gregorius
- Start date
bozzwell
Starter
love_them_kings said:
That's a very good point. I'd rather see a player doubled up and his _free_ teammate taking up an uncontested shot then Kobe/AI/TMac-esque "let me..." shot at the end of the game/down the stretch. That's why you need 5 players a team. That is Kings' main strength. If people choose to believe that clutch only means making a very difficult, contested shot with clock expiring to tie or win the game then so be it, i will not argue. But it is very miopic view to have, IMHO.
mcsluggo
Starter
Ryle said:One thing I definitely remember was his 8 point outing in the all important game 7
Of everything that people can hold against Peja, this seems to be the one that has stuck the most. I think this is unfair. He was returning (too early) from an injury. That was NOT a choke job, it was more similar to the situation with Cwebb last season, when he first came back.
If you think that Peja hurt the team in game 7, blame the coaching staff, imho. Peja was trying to be a warrior, if he wasn't helping the coaches should have had teh guts to pull him.
bozzwell said:
I am very sorry if you take my comments for bashing. The truth is, unfortunately for me at least, that I don't currently have much faith in Pedja to put it all out on the line when it counts the most.
It that makes me a basher in your eyes, then I guess we'll just have to live with that.
It was PEDJA who announced that he no longer wanted to be a King. He made it apparent he would rather be traded anywhere than to say with the Kings. Well, as a Kings fan since the beginning, that irritated me more than a little. I love this team - and I cheer for anyone who wears the uniform. It would be nice, however, if the person I've invested my support in at least wanted to be here.
This season - not last year or the year before or the year before that - Pedja isn't hitting many shots. His percentages are down; his enthusiasm seems down; he has actually PASSED the ball away on several occasions rather than take the clutch shot.
So, is it bashing if I come out and honestly say that I, longtime Kings fan, would feel better if someone else took the critical shot at the critical juncture? I don't think so.
There's a difference between honestly criticizing someone and bashing them. Anyone who has been on this board for any amount of time can tell you how often I've remarked in the past about the beauty of Pedja's unorthodox shot, how I've marveled about the poetry in motion as the ball goes high in the air and comes back down, touching nothing but net.
This isn't about Pedja vs. Webber. Or Pedja vs. any other Kings player. If anything, it's about Pedja vs. Pedja. I would LOVE to see him get back to being one of the top shooters in the league. Why wouldn't I? He's a Sacramento King. I am not going to root for any of our players to do poorly. That's just silly.
I am not going to amend anything I said in the previous post because that would be hypocritical. The Pedja we've seen so far this year has improved greatly on defense, but he's missing easy lay-ups, he's passing up shots, he's acting like his head just isn't in his game.
If it's because of the back problems, then I hope he gets well quickly. We need Pedja - we need him focused, we need him ready AND willing to take the pressure and the clutch shot. Right now, I wouldn't take a chance on putting the ball in his hands at that juncture. But I'm not the one drawing up the plays. Adelman will do that, and if he has faith in Pedja to take AND make that shot, then you won't hear anything from me.
Packt
Starter
Kingsgurl said:
Yes, I really hate it when people make it a Webb vs. Peja vs. Bibby. Everybody has to bring his game if we want to win. This isn't a concept only for the Kings, but for all teams- even more so if you play in the deep West. You might be able to steal one here and there (like our recent game in Minny) but you'll need everybody playing well if you want the big one.
starks said:
There is an assumption that Peja would get better looks with a low post presence like Duncan, but I don't see why. You would still need to run the same plays we do here in Sac, and his defender will never be the one to collapse on Duncan.
No matter what happened in the past, I wouldn't mind seeing a play set-up for Peja in a last shot situation.
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iheartBrad
All-Star
i figured this thread would turn into a Peja this and that thread so i tried to stay away from it...but my curiousity got the best of me so i came in...and whatya know...
G_M
Starter
VF21 said:
YES!!
I'm not sure how many playoff games Peja has played in since becoming a Kings. I do remember the game 7 airball against the Lakers. Was he hurting during that series? YES! However, "special" players just seem to find a way to impact the big games.
I'm hoping Peja will find a way when it counts.
DdeeznutzZ
Prospect
All i gotta say is personally i would love the ball in bibby's hands at the end of any game
bozzwell
Starter
VF21 said:
Well, that statementalone makes it much clearer for me. If I understood you correctly, you are saying that Pedja is not getting it done _this year_. I took it that you were implying that Pedja is unreliable and least clutch player on our team for whatever _other_ reason (that was not apparent from your previous posting). I cannot possible have any objections to your comments if they are based on your lack of faith/trust in Pedja.
However, having read a number of posts where you went out of your way to instill faith (in Pedja) in others who were bashing him on this forum, I hope that you can understand why that (lack of trust/faith) didn't jump out at me and why I assumed that you are bashing Pedja "passively" (how very Pedja-esque would that be
). In no way did I mean to imply that you are any less of a Kings superfan and a great moderator because I think you came down hard on Pedja. You make it apparent that it is team first with you. You're waiting for Pedja to "show you the money" and I cannot argue with that.
I still believe in Pedja.
bozzwell said:Well, that statementalone makes it much clearer for me. If I understood you correctly, you are saying that Pedja is not getting it done _this year_. I took it that you were implying that Pedja is unreliable and least clutch player on our team for whatever _other_ reason (that was not apparent from your previous posting). I cannot possible have any objections to your comments if they are based on your lack of faith/trust in Pedja.
However, having read a number of posts where you went out of your way to instill faith (in Pedja) in others who were bashing him on this forum, I hope that you can understand why that (lack of trust/faith) didn't jump out at me and why I assumed that you are bashing Pedja "passively" (how very Pedja-esque would that be
In no way did I mean to imply that you are any less of a Kings superfan and a great moderator because I think you came down hard on Pedja. You make it apparent that it is team first with you. You're waiting for Pedja to "show you the money" and I cannot argue with that.
I still believe in Pedja.
I want to... I really, really do!
Napred kraljevi!!!
acisking said:
I think, in this case, there has been a very interesting exchange of ideas. As one of the people who was discussing the idea with someone with a differing view, I found it frankly satisfying to be able to reach an understanding.
GO KINGS - all of them!!!!!
Solution to Pedja's playoff choking
Maybe Pedja should give this a try in playoffs:
[font=arial,helvetica,verdana][/font][font=arial,helvetica,verdana]The Heimlich Maneuver for CHOKING
[/font][font=arial,helvetica,verdana]When you choke, you can't speak or breathe and you need help immediately. Follow these steps to save yourself from choking: [/font]
[font=arial,helvetica,verdana]See a physician immediately after rescue. [/font]
[font=arial,helvetica,verdana]
[/font]
http://www.heimlichinstitute.org/howtodo.html
Maybe Pedja should give this a try in playoffs:
[font=arial,helvetica,verdana][/font][font=arial,helvetica,verdana]The Heimlich Maneuver for CHOKING
[/font][font=arial,helvetica,verdana]When you choke, you can't speak or breathe and you need help immediately. Follow these steps to save yourself from choking: [/font]
- [font=arial,helvetica,verdana]Make a fist and place the thumb side of your fist against your upper abdomen, below the ribcage and above the navel.[/font]
- [font=arial,helvetica,verdana]Grasp your fist with your other hand and press into your upper abdomen with a quick upward thrust.[/font]
- [font=arial,helvetica,verdana]Repeat until object is expelled. [/font]
[font=arial,helvetica,verdana]See a physician immediately after rescue. [/font]
[font=arial,helvetica,verdana]
http://www.heimlichinstitute.org/howtodo.html
Gregorius
G-League
Wow, I didn't mean to start up all this Peja vs. Webb. vs. Bibby type stuff. I was just thinking wouldn't it be cool if Peja could "practice" for the playoffs by shooting big shots. Certainly if Webber or Bibby is more open they should take the shot, but it would be awesome if Peja could become a clutch performer too.
bdouble013
Bench
Welcome to the board Gregorius. Unfortunately this is how is tends to be around here (at least lately). 
Jaylee209
G-League
I think Peja can make those shots if he actually tried (like the game in Detroit). But more than often he tries to draw the foul or he adjusts his naturally awkward looking shot to an even more awkward shot ( like when he is guarded by Bowen or Hassell). He does't seem to know that he has a height advantage over both of them and all he has to do is jump over them. Sometimes it seems like he is scared of getting fouled instead of being focus on shooting the shot the way he always shoots them.
I would also like to see pump fake more. His defendors are usually playing really tight and all he has to do when he gets a screen and use a little pump fake and either draw the foul or try to get to the hole.
I would also like to see pump fake more. His defendors are usually playing really tight and all he has to do when he gets a screen and use a little pump fake and either draw the foul or try to get to the hole.
mcsluggo
Starter
piksi said:
Actually, when I watched the championship game I was really disappointed by both Peja's and Vlade's play down the stretch. They both played well enough to get their team into a position to win, but when it was time to deliver the final product they both were less than the task. Puttting the final nails into the coffin fell to their team-mates.
Diabeticwonder
Bench
Gregorius said:
With all due respect Gregorius, the notion that the team should let Peja shoot a couple of game ending threes or shots in order to get him ready for the playoffs is ridiculous. You either have IT or you don't. IT being the moxy and inate ability to make a game winning or game changing shot. Those kinds of shots are not like free throws that can be worked on in order to shoot better in the playoffs, say 16/30 in a Game 7. Additionally, there is no way that the Kings would potentially sacrifice a game only to give Peja the opportunity to become more clutch. The bottom line is that you either have IT or you don't and IMO I don't believe that Peja has what it takes to step up and hit a game winning basket. That's not to say that he won't do it because I would love to see him do it, but I just don't think he has IT.
Furthermore, I don't think that the Kings' style of play and execution is best suited to give Peja an open look at the end of a game. For one, the other team will be keying on him since he is one of the best shooters around and two, the ball usually goes through the high post and he (Miller or Webb) will take the shot or find an open man, which usually is not going to be the guy guarded by someone like Bruce Bowan. Plus, when you have guys on the floor that have proven to step up and make big shots and if they get even the slightest of openings, they are going to take the shot. Those guys being Bibby, Webb, Miller, and even Cat.
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SaCKiNgS24 said:
I can't remember who we were playing (I want to say the Clippers) when Peja hit at least four clutch free throws to ice the game for us. I'm pretty sure that there were more clutch free throws in that streak that we've forgotten. That's not a good reason to call Peja a choker.
Packt
Starter
Jaylee209 said:
I've been wondering that, myself. He has an awkward shot and I wonder if that is the reason defenders are able to bother him so much. Like does his shot need more room than an orthodox shot and can he fit a pump fake in without changing his shooting method? With his strength and size, he should be able to muscle his way over most defenders. I know putting the ball on the floor has been a weak spot in his game, and doing so is what defenders want him to do, but that's a move he absolutely needs. He doesn't need to be able to get to the hole, but it gives him more options and helps draw fouls, especially if he can incorporate a pump fake into that.
His shot may be unorthodox, but it's his shot. If you try to change it, you run the very real risk of him loosing the touch forever.
Peja is a catch and shoot specialist. He works best when he puts it up with little to no thought, and actually when he's just a little off-balance. Trying to get him to incorporate a pump fake into his repertoire just isn't something I'd have a lot of hope he can do.
Peja is a catch and shoot specialist. He works best when he puts it up with little to no thought, and actually when he's just a little off-balance.
Trying to get him to incorporate a pump fake into his repertoire just isn't something I'd have a lot of hope he can do.
Kool Keith
G-League
peja will hit a few clutch shots by the end of the season and prove all doubters wrong
btw, even MJ missed some clutch opportunities
GO PEJA, GO SON!!!
btw, even MJ missed some clutch opportunities
GO PEJA, GO SON!!!
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Superman said:
Yes, and I think that's the thing really -- Peja NEVER, since perhaps his teen years, has been the clutch goto guy for his teams. Could he be? Possibly, but I doubt it. And its not even a choking issue so much as an issue with his game. Peja has trouble creating his shot. He has trouble with defenders up inside his shirt. He's never developed that post move he needs, or the ability to beat a good attentive defender off the dribble. So when things get tight in big moments, he has few options and is going to consistently struggle to get off good shots. Peja might choke, he might not, but I would argue that he rarely is able to get off good enough shots in those situations to even put the issue to the test.
P.S. Interesting sidelight -- I might even argue that last year Peja may not necessarily have choked against Minnesota in the playoffs, he may simply have not been as good on offense as Hassel was on defense. I think there is enough evidence to put forth the theory that maybe its not a question of mentality/toughness with Peja, maybe its a question of ability. (i.e. Hassel kicked his butt during the regular season too (and yes, both before and after Webber returned), so maybe it wasn't the pressure of the playoffs at all, maybe it was the other guy just being better).
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shaka zulu
Bench
The style of his shot is the reason why his shot isn't block as often then if he had a traditional shooting form.He has what Bird had a behind the head unblockable stroke which is cool because he can get the shot off with no room really He always has Big fly swatter hands in his face on the regular on his 3's alot of the time he is smothered when he hits shots but no one wants to mention this.But his shooting form is not the reason why defenders bother him.He gets mugged alot grabbed and held on constantly moving through picks and screens.He also doesn't get enough isolation plays called for him to use his ball handleing abilty.He can put the ball on the floor which people seemed to not understand.You must realize you have 10 guys on the floor who are at the average height of 6'7 6'8 if we were as fans of the game to be able to experience being out on that floor in peja's body or regualr by stander we would understand that it isn't that much room to operate from jump.This is why there was talk and still is to widen the lanes and expand the tiny area in the corner three point regions to open more free lance play.This is also the reason defensive TEAMS for the past 10 to 12 seasons have dominated NBA play.It is real easy for defenders to clogg the lanes jump the little guys and smother the passing lane because of the lack of space that the OFFENSE has to work with.Peja can handle the ball but he doesn't get the ball in isolation spots on teh floor and this due to the high post offense were the 4 and 5 spots dictate the offensive flow.If he were to get the ball in some clear out or soft spot areas on the floor then we would see a different peja and we would see his ball handleing skills at work.Packt said:
But presently we see a peja get the ball in last second shot clock activity and in congested offensive spots which we see turn overs and lack of ball handleing executions.Peja is the 3rd best ball handler on the starting 5 3rd behind mike bibby and cuttino.Webber is a good dribbler for a #4 player but the difference in webber creating his own shot versus peja is the soft spots webber gets the basketball and then webber has more confidence to take the ball to the hole.But his dribble drives are suspect and he looses the handle alot but the difference he will keep taking the ball regardless of a TO or sloppy play.peja's problem is confidence and the coaching staff don't give him soft spots to use his handle.
Larry bird had a similar game to peja and bird only used one hand on the handle.But this is all he needed some times you only need a little space to work and this can be done with one jab step or a dribble to the left and one dribble back to your strong hand to get a high percentage shot off.Bird knew the soft spots and exposed his defender by using them.Peja must learn the soft areas and the only way he will learn is with oppurtunity and he has to want the ball more.He doesn't need to be kobe or mcgrady off the dribble.He can do just the same or be just as efficent.He has the size he has the bulk and shooting touch to tear defenders apart.He has dribble people but he has to find the spots on the floor and the coaching stafff should isolate him more,Because he is the type of player like Bird who can put a defender in triple threat.Which is pass when they rush and jump you,use your height when you are isolated and don't allow those little dudes to body you when you back them down.Watch bird be bird when you post up.Bird had the mind of a killer on court and domique wilkins saw this,kareem saw this kareem said after gane 4 celtics and lakers that he thought that larry would have killed for that game that the celtic took in game 4.Bird wasn't going to allow a littl bony dude to body him up or anyone else for the matter.Peja must do the same in the post he must stand up straighter with his fall away's to command the space.He has the skills but he must execute it on the floor.
shaka zulu
Bench
true enoughVF21 said:
