Any more moves?

[JoMama]

Wouldn't surprise me a bit if the Kings dealt Bibby before the regular season tipoff. Just don't think he's going to be a happy camper knowing the Kings would love to get some value for him in a trade.

 

[hrdboild]

How did we go from a classy organization with familial loyalty between players and staff to a sleazy one whose players are looking over their shoulder expecting to get stabbed in the back at any second? Or is that just my perception?

 

[VF21]

I think that might be the perception - and there was a lot of dissention last season. I think the major problem was the Webber trade. It immediately made it clear to all players that no one was safe, no one was really considered an integral part of the team - that anyone could be traded at any time. And that's just not what the Kings had been about since Petrie first started to build the team that stole our hearts...

One can only hope some lessons have been learned and that a certain pair of brothers will allow those they've hired to do a job to do said job.

But, as I mentioned above... hope springs eternal.

 

[hrdboild]

Yeah, I think you're right that the Webber trade was the beginning. I guess the break-up is always going to be messier than the the initial buildup of the relationship. It's inevitable really, there's probably an element of that in any "rebuild" situation...

But I can't help feeling like the Webber and Peja trades could have been handled better. And then there was the media flirting with Phil Jackson and eventual dismissal of Rick Adelman, and the constant Mike Bibby trade rumors from "sources" in the organization. Maybe some of that can be attributed to unfortunate and unintended information leaks, but it has established a pattern. Even more than returning to contention, I hope this organization can do something to reclaim it's once stellar reputation for honesty and loyalty over the next few years. Some say that team chemistry is just about winning, but I feel like trust with the organization plays a role as well. It's easier to cheer for a happy family (ie Webb, Bibby, Doug, Vlade, Peja, Bobby, etc) than a ragtag collection of hired guns.

I should probably add that signing Kevin Martin to an extension feels like it might be the first step in the right direction. After everything he said in that press conference, he's exactly the kind of player we want to keep in Sacramento for awhile.

 

[Bricklayer]

How did we go from a classy organization with familial loyalty between players and staff to a sleazy one whose players are looking over their shoulder expecting to get stabbed in the back at any second? Or is that just my perception?

The sleazy aspect has been remarkable, and I believe likely springs from the top with a family of spoiled rich boys throwing a tantrum over not getting what they want (although having a secretive cold fish GM does not help the warm and fuzzies once the good guy personalities have been bled away).

But the loyalty/family etc. -- that was always special and damn near unique. It may not be replicated. And you are not going to find it on any losing team, or at least any losing team that has yet to turn the corner. A guy like Bibby SHOULD be shopped, IS being shopped, WILL be shopped, because we are 10,000 miles from contention and have been deemed reduced to Atlanta Hawks level interest by the national networks.

Until we finally bottom out and get things turned around, there is always going to be tension even in the best of moves. Assuming no unexpected falloff, major injury, etc., I think the Kevin signing was reasonable and necessary. But trying to turn it into a sad parody of the Webb victory parade, complete with headlines that "Kings make Martin face fo the franchise" was shaky. Outside of the absurdity, you have to wonder what it does to Mike and Ron's mindset, since they appear at this point to be coming back. You wonder if annointing a good player, but not a world beater, puts a straight jacket on the franchise, its coaches, its other players, its cap situation. And those questions are always going to be there until the team is turned around and its future becomes clear. Portland is going to lose this year too, but they are going to lose with their lineup of the future already in town. With their roles already being defined, with a better future near guaranteed. The chaos is in their past. We are still living it.

 

[VF21]

But I can't help feeling like the Webber and Peja trades could have been handled better. And then there was the media flirting with Phil Jackson and eventual dismissal of Rick Adelman, and the constant Mike Bibby trade rumors from "sources" in the organization. Maybe some of that can be attributed to unfortunate and unintended information leaks, but it has established a pattern. Even more than returning to contention, I hope this organization can do something to reclaim it's once stellar reputation for honesty and loyalty over the next few years. Some say that team chemistry is just about winning, but I feel like trust with the organization plays a role as well. It's easier to cheer for a happy family (ie Webb, Bibby, Doug, Vlade, Peja, Bobby, etc) than a ragtag collection of hired guns.

I agree wholeheartedly. Don't forget about the wonderful big 6 out front of Arco ... and the failed "Gold Standard" campaign in an attempt to convince us of the brilliance of the emperor's (or Kings) new clothes as a sign of their respect for the fans. Arguably the most ridiculous public image campaign in the history of Sacramento. Add in the stupidity that runs rampant about the Palms, including the smarmy Party at the Palms show on cable, and you really have an organization whose image is not in keeping with what we in Sacramento are used to. And don't forget the Carl's Jr. commercial...

I should probably add that signing Kevin Martin to an extension feels like it might be the first step in the right direction. After everything he said in that press conference, he's exactly the kind of player we want to keep in Sacramento for awhile.

I agree with this, too, but everything has to flow from the top. The ownership of the club, IMHO, has played an integral part in mucking up the whole thing. The Maloofs are passionate about the team and WINNING, but they really need to stay out of the spotlight more and let guys like Petrie and Theus do their jobs.

 

[GoGoGadget]

Until we finally bottom out and get things turned around, there is always going to be tension even in the best of moves. Assuming no unexpected falloff, major injury, etc., I think the Kevin signing was reasonable and necessary. But trying to turn it into a sad parody of the Webb victory parade, complete with headlines that "Kings make Martin face fo the franchise" was shaky. Outside of the absurdity, you have to wonder what it does to Mike and Ron's mindset, since they appear at this point to be coming back. You wonder if annointing a good player, but not a world beater, puts a straight jacket on the franchise, its coaches, its other players, its cap situation. And those questions are always going to be there until the team is turned around and its future becomes clear. Portland is going to lose this year too, but they are going to lose with their lineup of the future already in town. With their roles already being defined, with a better future near guaranteed. The chaos is in their past. We are still living it.

Also have to wonder about the long term ramifications.

I like Kevin as a player, I really do, but I don't think he is/will be a REAL franchise player. So what happens if the team finally makes a move that brings a franchise player within the next season or two? Continue to back Kevin and pee off the new guy, or back the new guy and add the "until we get something better" footnote to Kevin's status as "face of the franchise?" Either one is icky. And neither are particularly fair to Kevin, for that matter.

I've said it before, and I'm sure I'll say it again: I continue to support the team, but haven't been a very proud fan of the organization as a whole for quite some time now.

 

[VF21]

I was really surprised that they made such a big deal of the Kevin signing. Yes, I'm extraordinarily glad they did extended his contract but to have Kevin fly back from Florida to be shown off like a prize race horse just didn't make much sense to me.

Why they didn't just make an announcement of the new contract and leave it at that is just another question to me that does nothing to improve my opinion of those in charge of marketing and public image.

And I'm sure everyone knows how much I like Kevin Martin, so it's not about that in any way.

Both Brick and G3 have made valid points. The guys who are being paid the big bucks to endear the team to the public just don't follow any kind of logic I've been able to identify. I still harbor the secret fear they're actually long-term moles from Los Angeles.

 

[Kingster]

Jump the shark...

It was done first on Happy Days, when Fonzi (leather jacket and all) was on water skis on vacation (in Hawaii?) and performed a difficult stunt by jumping over a tank with a shark in it.

It's come to refer to the moment in time when a TV show reaches its peak and starts to lose momentum. For example, a lot of people think Henry's death in M.A.S.H. was the Jump the Shark moment even though the series continued on for quite a while.

At www.jumptheshark.com you can actually read about the episodes of various shows...

Thanks for the pop-culture education!

 

[VF21]

Why, certainly. After all, I am the "Information Ninja."

 

[Kingster]

I was really surprised that they made such a big deal of the Kevin signing. Yes, I'm extraordinarily glad they did extended his contract but to have Kevin fly back from Florida to be shown off like a prize race horse just didn't make much sense to me.

Why they didn't just make an announcement of the new contract and leave it at that is just another question to me that does nothing to improve my opinion of those in charge of marketing and public image.

And I'm sure everyone knows how much I like Kevin Martin, so it's not about that in any way.

Both Brick and G3 have made valid points. The guys who are being paid the big bucks to endear the team to the public just don't follow any kind of logic I've been able to identify. I still harbor the secret fear they're actually long-term moles from Los Angeles.

To me the King's actions on Artest and Martin reak of one thing: desperation. The Artest trade was borne of desperation - a quick way out. The Martin hoopla was borne of the PR desperation: What else have they got to publicize? Miki Moore? Unfortunately, as some have indicated, putting Martin on the pedestal may lead to potential player friction. This Martin publicity does absolutely nothing to reinforce the notion of "team", but does reinforce the notion of "I". Is that what you want to do on a team that already is racked by chemistry problems? Also, it really makes me wonder about the organizational structure of the Kings. It looks like the general manager has no influence over the PR arm of the Kings. It's like they both have an agreement: You do you're thing, I'll do mine. To me, if your organization is really together, you don't have that separation - you're all on the same page

 

[VF21]

I think "racked by chemistry problems" is misleading, especially based on what I'm hearing about how well Mike, Ron, Brad, Quincy and a couple of the new kids are working out (literally) at the practice facility every day. (I think Garcia and Kevin will be joining them now that they're back in town.) And Kevin Martin is the ultimate TEAM player so the notion of "I" doesn't really apply to him.

As far as the two sides of MSE go, I think the market and sales answer to John Thomas while basketball operations are under Petrie... They're actually phsyically separated, I believe, as the basketball ops people are in the practice facility and the "pencil pushers" are in the main building at Arco.

If there's desperation, I truly believe it's on the part of the Maloofs and the sales/marketing people. They've bungled quite a few things lately - including some playoff ticket fiascos that had a lot of people upset a year or two back.

 

[hrdboild]

Also have to wonder about the long term ramifications.

I like Kevin as a player, I really do, but I don't think he is/will be a REAL franchise player. So what happens if the team finally makes a move that brings a franchise player within the next season or two? Continue to back Kevin and pee off the new guy, or back the new guy and add the "until we get something better" footnote to Kevin's status as "face of the franchise?" Either one is icky. And neither are particularly fair to Kevin, for that matter.

I don't see how the celebration of Kevin Martin is potentially a problem. He's a small town guy who the team has shown loyalty to and confidence in by signing him to an extension (and a generous one at that). I don't see Kevin Martin ever being an ego problem, and that he thinks of Sacramento as his adopted home is exactly what the Kings PR department should be trying to emphasize. No he's not the franchise savior, but nobody is treating him like one either. "Face of the franchise" doesn't have to mean max-salary superstar, it could also mean that they plan to keep him around for a long time. I'm okay with that. It would be a refreshing change of pace after all the recent roster turnover (and more to come).

Some of you are pointing out that the facade of a PR bonanza slapped over what would otherwise be a relatively quiet routine contract extension indicates that the Kings braintrust still doesn't get it. I can understand that point of view, and given everything else that has happened in the last few years, it's probably true. Like I said before, they've established a rather ugly pattern. But regardless of the painfully transparent spin campaign, signing Kevin longterm was the smart move. He's a hardworking team player and a rising star. That's the kind of personality you want on your team.

I've said it before, and I'm sure I'll say it again: I continue to support the team, but haven't been a very proud fan of the organization as a whole for quite some time now.

I'll second that, and throw out an "amen". I still begrudgingly support the Kings, and hope the franchise can turn it around, but I'm losing faith quickly. And that's not because of anything the players are doing (or not doing).

 

[GoGoGadget]

I don't see how the celebration of Kevin Martin is potentially a problem. He's a small town guy who the team has shown loyalty to and confidence in by signing him to an extension (and a generous one at that). I don't see Kevin Martin ever being an ego problem, and that he thinks of Sacramento as his adopted home is exactly what the Kings PR department should be trying to emphasize. No he's not the franchise savior, but nobody is treating him like one either. "Face of the franchise" doesn't have to mean max-salary superstar, it could also mean that they plan to keep him around for a long time. I'm okay with that. It would be a refreshing change of pace after all the recent roster turnover (and more to come).

There IS a certain connotation with being publicly appointed the "franchise" guy, however. Typically, a team would save that distinction for the best guy on the court -- you make that allegiance with a superstar, not a good player with a heart of gold.

And this is the part that concerns me about that technicality: Either it's an indication that we're not in search of anyone better than Kevin Martin in the next few years, and we're destined to flat out suck for that time; or we ARE still looking for that guy, and when we get him Kevin's reign as franchise guy is abruptly, unceremoniously and unfairly ended.

Neither of these concerns have a bit to do with Kevin as a player or as a person, mind you. I like the kid and I'm glad we're keeping him. He's just not quite there yet, and I think it was skeevie and unfair of the organization to potentially jerk him around in an attempt to make the... overly loyal?... masses smile.

 

[VF21]

And this is the part that concerns me about that technicality: Either it's an indication that we're not in search of anyone better than Kevin Martin in the next few years, and we're destined to flat out suck for that time; or we ARE still looking for that guy, and when we get him Kevin's reign as franchise guy is abruptly, unceremoniously and unfairly ended.

That concerned me at first, but I think Kevin is grounded enough to understand that a lot of this right now is some kind of hype. From what I've heard, he didn't really want any of the hoopla anyway... And I don't think it will go to his head.

But, regardless of how he might react, I think the mere possibility of the Maloofs once again doing something smarmy is too real to ignore. And that just gives me a yucky feeling ... again.