Another Seattle perspective

[Trueblood]

For those who aren't familiar with the site, Sonicscentral.com is run by Brian Robinson. He spearheaded the movement to keep the Sonics in Seattle by not only running the website but by starting the grassroots group known as "SOS" or simply "Save our Sonics".

While unsuccesful in the long run as the team left for OKC, he was definitely the face of the fans and he kept pressure on civic leaders to do something. Unlike Sacramento, there was no KJ in the mayor's seat nor did they have an ownership group like the Maloofs, who are committed to keeping the team in town. Therefore, Robinson became the guy to do the heavy lifting and it proved too big a task.

Surprisingly, the site is still up and running and his blog starters regular get over 100 comments despite no new arena on the horizon for a new Sonics team. Regardless, here's his view of the Kings situation. The blog starter is actually a story he wrote that was supposed to be published in the Bee but according to him, never came to fruition.

http://sonicscentral.com/blog/?p=2915#more-2915

 

[stevetaebo]

Agreed with everything that Robinson wrote. This is more devastating to Sacramento. At least Seattle has 2 pro teams and a Pac 10 program. We have none. Our identity is gone.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

In the wake of the Sonics leaving Seattle's MLS team the Sounders have actually become the most popular ticket in town. Sacramento isn't even on the radar for MLS let alone another major sports league.

Good article, a bunch of sad comments from delusional Sonics fans that think they have a chance at stealing the Kings. If they must go I hope it is back to Kansas City.

 

[ArcoKings]

What? The Kings becoming Sonics 2.0?? Reminds me of a small kid eye-ing another small kid's toys. I don't see Seattle getting a team until an arena deal is negotiated and I don't see the Kings moving back to KC, either. BTW, I read the comments after the blog and I have to say that those Seattle folks have class. They genuinely feel bad for the Sacramento situation and had good things to say about the Kings and the Maloofs. The Sonics fans got the rug pulled underneath them. Hopefully they get a team soon (but not our Kings).

 

[kennadog]

Too many Sonics fans are delusional. They seem to think Key Arena is fine, if the owner says its fine. That simply isn't true. Stern has let the city know that Arco is not an NBA-quality arena. Heck, the NCAA won't accept it for college ball anymore. No new arena in Seattle + no NBA team for Seattle. The Maloofs are not taking the team there or anywhere where they don't have a good arena or sure deal for a new arena in place, before they move.

Robinson says they didn't realize the deal was already done when they tried to save the team and that you have to be willing to pay the price. They don't think Sacramento has any business having an NBA team. Well, we'll be the only top twenty media market with no pro-sport team, if the Kings leave. I don't think the Maloofs want to leave. I know the Kings fans don't want to leave. None of that will stand up to economic reality in the long run.

What I've come to realize, is the fans in a city have no real control at all over what happens to their team. You have to have enough citizens willing to finance a new arena/entertainment venue. Without the support of enough non-basketball fans, you will fail. I still hold out a tiny ray of hope, especially if a plan can be arrived at that does not require a vote of the public.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

What I've come to realize, is the fans in a city have no real control at all over what happens to their team.

Is there any effort in Sacramento to mobilize Kings fans into a political force? Portland was able to do this with soccer which is less proven of a money maker and we had to displace our AAA baseball franchise to do it which upset many. I would think something similar would be possible with Kings fans?

 

[kennadog]

Is there any effort in Sacramento to mobilize Kings fans into a political force? Portland was able to do this with soccer which is less proven of a money maker and we had to displace our AAA baseball franchise to do it which upset many. I would think something similar would be possible with Kings fans?

You know, Kings fans just don't make up the majority of residents in the city. Now if people were ready to support a new sports/entertainment venue as of benefit to the city with or without the Kings, maybe. I just don't think the numbers are there and would likely cause a backlash from the anti-arena folks.

Unfortunately, a lot of the fans live outside city boundaries and in surrounding counties (like me), so I don't know how much political influence non-residents can have. I could show up at city council meetings (Maybe sometimes), but not sure they're going to pay attention to non-residents on this issue.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

You know, Kings fans just don't make up the majority of residents in the city. Now if people were ready to support a new sports/entertainment venue as of benefit to the city with or without the Kings, maybe. I just don't think the numbers are there and would likely cause a backlash from the anti-arena folks.

Unfortunately, a lot of the fans live outside city boundaries and in surrounding counties (like me), so I don't know how much political influence non-residents can have. I could show up at city council meetings (Maybe sometimes), but not sure they're going to pay attention to non-residents on this issue.

It was probably a few hundred here that were able to get things done. And even out of that group maybe a few dozen real strong voices. Arco's average attendance is higher than that of the USL Timbers games though the new facility should accomodate slightly more.

The interesting thing about soccer is that there is this huge do it yourself element to the fan base with all the celebration displays, etc and so there are a lot of fans that invest personal money into the team beyond tickets and the usual team-approved apparel. So they already had the network in place through the Timbers Army to turn it into a political faction and one that began working with the team instead of on its own.

I'm thinking that a group of dedicated fans could try and get a meeting with team management to see what the fans and community can do to save the team. Then maybe the team would allow this group to set up some tables at Arco events to try and expand into a force. Does anything like that presently go on?

 

[kennadog]

Well you have to realize that California is probably the hardest state to try and get financing for an arena. The anti-tax group are basically against almost anything that might involve even the slightest increase in taxes or expenditure of government money. Although most are totally ignorant about how much gets spent by governements everywhere to support private business development.

I could help, but I'm too far away from Sacramento to be a regular driving force behind something like this. I work even farther away from Sacramento.

Maybe some where here wants to form a committee? Any one here want to recruit a group of fans to at least see if we can talk to the ownership? Anyone willing to be part of such a group?

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Believe me I understand. Of course remember that the extreme anti-taxers are also a minority - they're just mobilized and also have the advantage of having been at it since at least the 70s. I share your frustration in being far away.

 

[kennadog]

A very powerful minority. They are the ones that were able to pass the initiative requireing a 2/3s vote for anything that raises taxes for a specific purpose (and to pass the State budget, no wonder there's been major gridlock since!) I'm not real far away, but I live in Yuba City. Its 45 minutes from Arco and of course it means I'm not a voter in the city or county of Sacramento. I work in Oroville, an hour and a half away.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

One of the major benefits to getting common people behind the push is to take away the talking point that this is just a gift to richie rich Maloofs and land developers. Because we all know the Kings are just one part of the equation.

 

[Mike0476]

Maybe some where here wants to form a committee? Any one here want to recruit a group of fans to at least see if we can talk to the ownership? Anyone willing to be part of such a group?

I'm willing to be a part of this group. I plan on being at City Hall tomorrow. They're supposed to have some kind of discussion on the arena issue, but I don't expect much to be discussed. I'll see what I can find out tomorrow morning first.

 

[Trueblood]

Robinson says they didn't realize the deal was already done when they tried to save the team and that you have to be willing to pay the price.

That angle is sort of awkward. He says that the deal was already done but had they passed the Renton tax, Bennett would've had no choice but to stay. In fact, he was the architect of the Renton proposal and would've had a signed lease in place from the get go. Most people pretty much agree that he would've flipped the team, meaning sell it for a larger price than what he paid for it. From there, he would've worked on getting a different team for OKC.

It was a win win all the way for Clay Bennett. Either have a team in OKC or sell the Sonics for at least $50 million more than what he paid for it due to the presence of a new arena being built.

The problem with Seattle was that they had Bennett due all the groundwork for the arena. The fact that they think he had one foot out the door from the get go is all the more reason why they should've taken a hands on approach towards getting a new arena done much like KJ is doing here. The fact they not only allowed Bennett to dictate the terms of a new Renton arena, reject it before it even got to the house and then have a mayor sellout by taking the lease payoff even though they still had 2 years to go, makes me less sympathetic to what went down.

Don't get me wrong. I respect Brian for all he did. Fans like him deserve better. But the politicians up there did everything possible to sabotage having a team up there. They are the ones who should take the majority of the blame but it somehow gets tossed to Stern.

 

[MrCLM]

SonicsCentral.com guy here

Hey all, saw your link to our site (I'm Big Chris, one of the admin's on SC.com) and just wanted to thank you for the link and weigh in a bit.

The general feeling is that we in no way want to steal someone else's team. We've been kicked in the nuts that way ourselves, and know the pain all to well.

Brian Robinson wrote that article for your newspaper to give you guys a warning/heads up so you indeed wouldn't lose the Kings like we lost the Sonics. By the time the thousands of people got involved in the Save Our Sonics campaign, things were already decided, which we obviously had no clue about. Unfortunately Brian's article was never run, so you all first found it on our site, quite a long time after it was originally written.

But heed his words, Brian like no other knows what he is speaking about in this area. The unfortunate reality is that David Stern will stab you in the back in a heartbeat to put another dollar in the owner's pockets.

And while yes some of our commenter will get carried away about the idea that we might land your team please take that in the context of a beggar wishing for morsel of food. Sonics fans have been starved for a while now, so from time to time we get carried away dreaming about food. And the Kings look tasty. So please be gracious with us.

And to make matters worse, not only did we lose our team, but we lost what is becoming a really good team - it kills to watch Kevin Durant light it up every night. It killed to watch them in the playoffs.

I do indeed hope the Kings stay put. If any team moves it should be to get Shinn out of ownership of the Hornets. But I don't wish the loss of a franchise on anybody. So keep your heads in the game, and take action sooner rather than later, or as Brian warns may come to pass.

--Big Chris

 

[Trueblood]

Hey all, saw your link to our site (I'm Big Chris, one of the admin's on SC.com) and just wanted to thank you for the link and weigh in a bit.

The general feeling is that we in no way want to steal someone else's team. We've been kicked in the nuts that way ourselves, and know the pain all to well.

Brian Robinson wrote that article for your newspaper to give you guys a warning/heads up so you indeed wouldn't lose the Kings like we lost the Sonics. By the time the thousands of people got involved in the Save Our Sonics campaign, things were already decided, which we obviously had no clue about. Unfortunately Brian's article was never run, so you all first found it on our site, quite a long time after it was originally written.

But heed his words, Brian like no other knows what he is speaking about in this area. The unfortunate reality is that David Stern will stab you in the back in a heartbeat to put another dollar in the owner's pockets.

And while yes some of our commenter will get carried away about the idea that we might land your team please take that in the context of a beggar wishing for morsel of food. Sonics fans have been starved for a while now, so from time to time we get carried away dreaming about food. And the Kings look tasty. So please be gracious with us.

And to make matters worse, not only did we lose our team, but we lost what is becoming a really good team - it kills to watch Kevin Durant light it up every night. It killed to watch them in the playoffs.

I do indeed hope the Kings stay put. If any team moves it should be to get Shinn out of ownership of the Hornets. But I don't wish the loss of a franchise on anybody. So keep your heads in the game, and take action sooner rather than later, or as Brian warns may come to pass.

--Big Chris

Hey Big Chris, thanks for dropping by. I couldn't agree more. One thing I hated about Seattle losing the Sonics was that you had 41 years of support go down the drain. Like Robinson, I wanted to see a situation where George Shinn stayed in OKC, Seattle figured out an arena deal and Bennett would wind up flipping the team to Ballmer or something. New Orleans had a grand total of 3 years of lame support so I figure that if anyone should lose their team, it was them.

With Sacramento, it's similar. You have 26 years of strong support and it would just be painful to watch Sacramento lose their team. Hopefully, the on again, off again saga of Shinn's sale to Chouest stays off and he has no choice but to sell to out of town owners. If Seattle and Dow get something done, that would be the perfect home for CP3 and co.

 

[TheWileyVet]

Anyone see this?

http://www.kcra.com/download/2010/0630/24099535.pdf

 

[mr. moustache]

A very powerful minority. They are the ones that were able to pass the initiative requireing a 2/3s vote for anything that raises taxes for a specific purpose (and to pass the State budget, no wonder there's been major gridlock since!) I'm not real far away, but I live in Yuba City. Its 45 minutes from Arco and of course it means I'm not a voter in the city or county of Sacramento. I work in Oroville, an hour and a half away.

WA just passed that same 2/3 tax law yesterday.

 

[kennadog]

Anyone see this?

http://www.kcra.com/download/2010/0630/24099535.pdf

Very interesting read and seems to be a pretty balanced study. I didn't read the whole thing right now, but enough to go back and read more later. Thanks.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Very interesting read and seems to be a pretty balanced study. I didn't read the whole thing right now, but enough to go back and read more later. Thanks.

Too big for me to read during the day but I did see a few things that caught my eye. They brought up the Pearl in Portland which is a huge success story in downtown Portland's rejuvenation and really not something that should be out of reach for Sacramento. And just seeing Old Sac on the front I can't help but be reminded how that whole area was slated to be demolished until a few brave souls decided it was worth investing in despite the ridicule of the community. Prior to the Kings' arrival that was pretty much the main attraction of the city yet too many with no vision wanted to see it paved over.

 

[Arco Thunder]

I don't know what to make of this, but there are some big rumors going around in media circles here in Sacramento that aren't leaning toward the Kings staying in Sacramento. I just heard something else this week. It makes me a little sick to my stomach. I hope they're wrong... I really, really do.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

It's hard to be optimistic when its feeling like they are being run out of town.

 

[Bricklayer]

I don't know what to make of this, but there are some big rumors going around in media circles here in Sacramento that aren't leaning toward the Kings staying in Sacramento. I just heard something else this week. It makes me a little sick to my stomach. I hope they're wrong... I really, really do.

Can you be more specific?

 

[Arco Thunder]

Unfortunately, I can't mention specific names, but most of you (in this area) would know who I was talking about. I'm a Kings fan just like most who post on this forum. Apparently, there's just too much negative chatter going on behind the scenes, but I'm personally going to keep the faith as long as we have Kevin Johnson as our Mayor. The Kings don't belong anywhere but right here in Sacramento!!

I know that you don't know me, but my sources are very, very good. That's all I can say...sorry.

 

[Mike0476]

I don't know what to make of this, but there are some big rumors going around in media circles here in Sacramento that aren't leaning toward the Kings staying in Sacramento. I just heard something else this week. It makes me a little sick to my stomach. I hope they're wrong... I really, really do.

The media can talk all they want, but I know from within MSE they want to stay. KJ is not giving up. Quite frankly neither am I. There are quite a few developers who feel they have something that can work out so let's wait until January and find out what happens next.

 

[Arco Thunder]

The media can talk all they want, but I know from within MSE they want to stay. KJ is not giving up. Quite frankly neither am I. There are quite a few developers who feel they have something that can work out so let's wait until January and find out what happens next.

It disgusts me that some within the media (while among each other) are saying that they are guaranteeing that the Kings are going to leave (they even supposedly know where they are going - yes, I've heard where). Where is the TRUE support??? It makes me sick. No, I haven't given up either, but it's hard when so many are seemingly against it. I hope KJ proves them all wrong!

 

[Sac.1989]

surely you can let us know what you've heard from your sources

 

[Bricklayer]

surely you can let us know what you've heard from your sources

I would settle for knowing whether said media types were within the Kings umbrella, and hence possibly in the know, or outsiders whom you would have to suspect of speculation.

 

[Sac.1989]

yeah anything will do me, the kings are our identity. Not knowing how this is going to pan out is just killing me, it seems headed to a slow death which hardly makes things any more bearable

 

[Arco Thunder]

I would settle for knowing whether said media types were within the Kings umbrella, and hence possibly in the know, or outsiders whom you would have to suspect of speculation.

The ones making these comments are deeply connected with the local media here (television). Whether the ones making these comments within the media are privileged to be specially connected with the Kings, I'm not sure. You know how things can leak out sometimes. I just want people to understand that there is a lot of crap being said behind the scenes (not in front of the cameras). Rumors are spreading, and I hope that they get stopped in their tracks soon.

My heart can't stand the thought of the Kings being anywhere else but right here in Sacramento. This is where they belong. Period.