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zip - I'll defer to you simply because I haven't seen the conference itself. I question whether Sports Illustrated would be fabricating anything, however. They've tried to be pretty fair about this whole thing. There are very passionate people on both sides of the fence.
The SI reporter would have his OWN tape of the press conference which might or might not sound exactly the same as what you heard.
"Would" and "did" are very similar sounding, so there's a chance it was either one of those two words.
Bonds doesn't normally sign autographs (except for $$, from what I've been told) so I'm guessing he wouldn't have signed this no matter what.
If the guy who caught the ball is happy, then that's cool. And it's all pretty much moot now anyway. That ball just became a trivia collector's item, not the one that will someday be in a glass case. (Perhaps next to Babe Ruth's 714, wherever it is...)
The SI reporter would have his OWN tape of the press conference which might or might not sound exactly the same as what you heard.
"Would" and "did" are very similar sounding, so there's a chance it was either one of those two words.
Bonds doesn't normally sign autographs (except for $$, from what I've been told) so I'm guessing he wouldn't have signed this no matter what.
If the guy who caught the ball is happy, then that's cool. And it's all pretty much moot now anyway. That ball just became a trivia collector's item, not the one that will someday be in a glass case. (Perhaps next to Babe Ruth's 714, wherever it is...)
zip95843
Bench
VF21 said:
I don't get it about SI - the same article was published everywhere, not just SI. And it takes one reporter's mistake to stir controversy, espesially if it's about Bonds. Don't you find it amusing that anything true or false about him would go these days?
I agree that it's a moot point right now, but still. The guy actually said that between media, photos and all commotion he just didn't think of asking to sign the ball and was wondering where the story came from.
BawLa
Starter
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
Are you kidding me? Do you realize what you are saying? If Barry did took a picture with the kid and shook his hand then how was he being a "total dick" to him? He doen't just take pictures and greet everyone, especially in "enemy" territory. If he signs the ball for the kid that caught the ball then he's gotta sit there and give signitures for a lot of other kids.
It wouldn't have ruined his day to sign the ball but the fact is that the kid was lucky enough to catch a piece of history. But that isn't enough for some people. They gotta get it all, and when they don't, they b****. Spare me, please.
And you most certianly got off track when you started talking about money. That is the biggest problem with all of this. What is the moment more remembered for: The epic home run or how much money some lucky kid made? It isn't Barry's job to make someone else millions. Had Barry signed the ball and the kid sold it, then the scenerio looks more like winning the lottery. Go earn your money, and don't complain when you don't hit the lottery.
The problem with every "Bonds hater" is that you will always look at everything he does and maniuplate it to manifest your hatred. Give the man credit for what he is and not what he isn't.
I'm not enough of a baseball fan to "hate" Barry Bonds... what I "hate" are spoiled millionaire athletes (in all sports) that have a gratuitous sense of entitlement, and whom act like the world owes them a living, rather than the other way around. Athletes who do, in fact, feel like they're doing some guy a favor by signing a ball, when the guy is actually doing him a favor by giving a damn.BawLa said:
Everything that I've had the opportunity to observe about Barry Bonds suggests that he is just such an athlete. Hence the "hatred."
Someone said it best in the Kings forum: won't someone please think of the poor millionaires? Poor, misunderstood, downtrodden Barry Bonds... please spare *me*, sir. Quit making it sound like the guy asked for Bonds' first-born: all he wanted was a stinking baseball; that's not too much to ask.BawLa said:
BawLa
Starter
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
1. What is more entitling than having the odassity(sp) to think someone else should stop their entire routine to come do something for someone they don't care about and don't know. The guy was lucky the ball bounced to him. It's not like he was the only Giants fan in the stadium. And I shouldn't have to repeat myself but he took a picture with the guy and met him. Again that isn't enough for some people. They want it all and when they don't get it they cry. Oh wait, he didn't cry. The media and some citizens did. The guy was actually stoked about the whole thing.
2. You probably wouldn't hate millionaire atheletes if you were a millionaire yourself. So don't hate him for his successes, appreciate him. And if you can't do that they you just need to deal with the fact that money distribution in this country is all messed up.
3. Barry Bonds does not act like the world owes him everything. If you can't pick that up on your own then you are just being maniuplated by the media.
4. Every person is different. If you were a millionaire sports player would you talk to the media every waking minute about every little part of your life? Would you sit down with every fan and give them each a little time? Probably not because it is not realistic, but if you did then right on. That would be you, not him.
BawLa said:
Whoa. You're kidding, right?
1. Having the audacity to think someone should stop their entire routine? What the heck are you talking about? The attempt at sardonic irony is totally without merit in this situation.
2. Don't hate him for his successes, appreciate him? His successes? He bleeping CHEATED. And, as a matter of fact, he's done a lot of other stuff that's pretty much being pushed under the carpet. If people don't like him, they don't like him.
3. As a matter of fact, Barry Bonds acts exactly like the world owes him everything...and more. And he acts like he hasn't done a thing wrong EVER and he's always being maligned.
4. That's just about the silliest thing I've ever read. There are a number of stars who will talk to fans. They will talk to the media. And they aren't spouting self-serving rhetoric on the most ridiculous sports show ever created. "Bonds on Bonds" is laughable.
Barry Bonds is a jerk. He's a very lucky jerk who is able to hit home runs. He's self-absorbed, he's spoiled and he cheated the game and the fans who made him a household name.
If you can choose to ignore that to give him your respect, that's fine for you. That's your right. But don't try to convince those of us who lost all respect for him that we're totally off-base. Our standards are different. Not a matter of who's right and who's wrong. It's just different perspectives.
Bonds' routine was not stopped. This guy didn't come up to him in a restaurant. He didn't call him in his hotel room. He didn't go up to him during BP, or during the game. He asked for an autograph during a point and time after the game when it should be reasonably expected for professional athletes to make themselves available for that exact purpose. Without the people that Bonds "doesn't care about and doesn't know," he wouldn't have the venue to make the kind of money that he makes doing what he does for a living. People in the profession that Bonds finds him in should have a greater sense of perspective than most of them have, realize that they *are* just playing a game, and show more appreciation for the "nobodies" that make it possible for them to enjoy their exorbitant lifestyle.BawLa said:
Given that the Giants were on the road, I wouldn't be so quick to make that statement.BawLa said:
And I shouldn't have to repeat *myself*, but Bonds was a dick when the guy asked for an autograph. He could have declined to autograph a ball without being a dick about it, so no, the fact that Bonds posed for a picture doesn't change or make up for the fact that he acted like a dick.BawLa said:
And the only reason why he even bothered to meet with the guy in the first place is because he wanted his ball back.
Don't assume.BawLa said:
I don't "hate" him for his success. I "hate" him because he acts like a jerk. Money is only going to make a person more of what they are. To paraphrase Deion Sanders, if you're a jerk poor, then you're going to be a jerk with money. And that's all that Bonds is: a jerk with money.BawLa said:
Apparently you've never listened to a Barry Bonds press conference... I don't know if there's anyone in the history of the world who has ever had a higher opinion of himself.BawLa said:
BawLa
Starter
VF21 said:
1. It was never in Bonds' routine to sign autographs for Houston fans after the game. I'll bet he was going to soak in the spa to help his messed up leg...which is much more important than satisfying one fan. Because if he doesn't stick to his routine to keep his mangled knee healthy, then he knows he will lose the fans he cares about in San Fran, not one fan in Houston.
2. Yes I appreciate him for his successes. Obviously STERIODS is not one of them! He is the greatest player of our time hands down and that is my opinion. So I appreciate that fact and the fact that he has done most of it for my team.
3. Again with the perception that the world owes him something. You and slim see the same thing and I'm sure there are more people that would agree with you. I see confidence...a swagger...maybe a little cockyness. And when you are one of the best players of your time then you have a right to be confident. This confidence is the same thing you see when you watch Ron Artest talk to the media. Except in his case you actually like Ron. It is obvious you don't like Barry either so I won't attack your feelings.
4. Yes I agree, lots of stars talk to the media. Barry doesn't. This is nothing new.
5. If you think Barry is a jerk then fine. But lucky? 714 times? Gimme a break. He was lucky that his father was Bobby Bonds and that he grew up around Willy Mays. Wipe out 100 of his home runs due to steriods. Wipe out more if you like. Fine. He is still a phenomenal player. He stole most of his 500+ bases before the steroid era. He got his gold gloves before and during the steriod era. Steriods does not make another manager pitch around you. Steriods cannot build hand eye coordination, it cannot make you a better hitter. It just added 50 feet to an already 400 foot longball. It just made his home runs epic. And it allowed his body to regenerate faster. But it also weakened his bones which is why he has missed so many games. In my opinion, he would have had 600+ home runs without steriods and he wouldn't have been injured last year so he would have more than that. And not to mention how many f***ing times he got walked in his career. Both intentionally and unintentionally. He would have hit over 1000 home runs if he got pitched to a little more, even without steriods.
If you take away his media personality and the steriods this is the greatest player ever. I appreciate it. You don't have to.
BawLa
Starter
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
1. The only person who determines when and where Barry Bonds signs an autograph is Barry Bonds. Other people may sign them after the game, but obviously not Barry...and especially not in another stadium.
2. Saying People in Barry's profession should appreciate the "nobody's" is an opinion, hence you using the word should. Barry should do whatever he wants to do. It is obvious that doesn't make for the best role model, but nobody said he was a good role model. In fact, a person of his stature has the choice to be a good role model and we all know what he did with that.
3. I will not try to convince you Barry is not a dick. You are entitled to your own opinions which are undoubtedly shaped by the media. In fact I think he is a dick too because of what the media has shown me. But I can appreciate the good that he has done for the game and my team...and I take it with the bad. Barry is not the only person to take steriods but he takes all the heat for steriods. He takes the heat because he is the only really good player to use them.
4. Just because you are a professional sports player that makes millions does not mean you are at the beck and call of the media and public. Fortunately for us, most of them make themselves available.
5. Thinking the world owes you something and confidence can be confused when perceived. You not liking him can also affect that perception.
BawLa said:
That would suit me just fine.
BawLa said:
Finally, something we agree on.
Edit: You've made your points clearly and I do undertand where you're coming from. We'll just never see eye to eye on this. Part of it might be generational. I used to be a BIG Giants fan. I listened to games with my dad on the radio. Willie Mays was my hero, followed closely by Willie McCovey. They ALWAYS made time for the fans. Maybe they were a dying breed; maybe I expect too much from today's gazillionaire ball-players.
Have a nice evening.
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BawLa
Starter
VF21 said:
Mays and McCovey have always been fond icons of mine as I grew up, partly because of the love my father had for them and the game of baseball. I'm lucky to have him share that with me. They might be a dying breed but I wouldn't blame the players. The media constantly hounds people to the point where their privacy is non-existent. If you show any grace to the media all they do is ask for more... So that they can line their pockets. I think that back in the day there were less celebrities so it meant more to the players to mingle with the fans and media. And also the fact that we are talking about this on a KINGS website shows that baseball isn't necessarily America's pasttime anymore. We have spread our fandom(if there is such a word) to too many players in different sports instead of just one or two.
Anyways, cheers.
RoyalDiva
Starter
uolj said:So?
He apparently doesn't like to sign his autograph so people can make money off him. Not necessarily what I would choose, but certainly not a classless decision.
I can't stand Bonds, but I side with him on this one. The guy just wanted the ball signed so that it would be worth more. Bonds didn't want to give into crap like that, who could blame him?
RoyalDiva
Starter
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
It's people having ulterior motives that probably upsets most celebrities. The fan doesn't want the autograph because the celebrity is their favorite and they want that signature as a keepsake, they want the autograph just so that they can profit off of it. That's twisted logic IMHO.
I disagree; it's irresponsible on the part of the athlete to assume that somebody who proclaims himself to be a Bonds fan wants the autograph so that they can sell it. Now, the guy who catches 714, who claims outright that he doesn't like Bonds, and will only give him the ball back for cash, you can make that argument, but it's bad policy for an athlete to assume the worst out of his fans from jumpstreet; if the guy keeps treating his fans like **** because he chooses to assume that every fan that comes up to him for an autograph is trying to turn a profit, it's not going to be long before he doesn't have any fans, other than the sort of obsequious bootlickers that will ride his jock no matter how much of a dickhead he is, just because he can crush the ball.RoyalDiva said:
Far too often, celebrities and professional athletes lose sight of the fact that they are dependant on the support of the common man to make their living, rather than the other way around.
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LilMissDiva
Bench
QueensFan said:
But you see, the difference is that - as others have been "outed" for using the juice, they dropped out of baseball.
He did not, and he continues to try to break records and pretend he is one of the greatest players to ever live. Maybe he is, and maybe he isn't... we will never know because of his "alleged" drug use.
RoyalDiva
Starter
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
Good points about assumptions. But in this age where fans can make sooo much money off of something such as a signed ball, I'd reckon to say that is exactly why the majority of fans do want autographs-so that they can profit off them. In fact, some "fans" have even started their own little businesses of hiring people just to scope out celebrities and ask for their autographs, and then making a profit off of them on ebay. I don't blame celebrities at all for refusing autographs now. It's gone from being something nice and innocent to just plain greed.
And what happens when the kid/teenager/young adult that an athlete tells to pee off really just wanted a stinking autograph? Like I said before, it's bad policy for an athlete to assume the worst.
An athlete has a hell of a lot more to gain (in terms of publicity, new fans, and merchandising) by being nice to people and signing autographs than they have to lose (which, quite frankly, is not a damned thing) if somebody sells said autograph. Conversely, they have a hell of a lot more to lose by being a dick (every kid that they tell to pee off is a lost fan, and if they do that everytime someone asks for an autograph, it's only a matter of time before there aren't any fans left) than they have to gain by knowing that nobody's going to sell their autograph.
An athlete has a hell of a lot more to gain (in terms of publicity, new fans, and merchandising) by being nice to people and signing autographs than they have to lose (which, quite frankly, is not a damned thing) if somebody sells said autograph. Conversely, they have a hell of a lot more to lose by being a dick (every kid that they tell to pee off is a lost fan, and if they do that everytime someone asks for an autograph, it's only a matter of time before there aren't any fans left) than they have to gain by knowing that nobody's going to sell their autograph.
uolj
Starter
I'm not sure if you read my reply or not, I'll assume you did. I gave two possible explanations I could think of for your comment, and then explained why neither of those made sense to me. If you can explain why one of those explanations makes sense, or why neither are accurate, that would make the meaning of your post more clear.Mr. S£im Citrus said:
In the above post, are you saying that if someone is an *******, all of their actions should never be defended or rationalized, even if those particular actions are benign? Or are you saying that the actions described in the article are "*******"-type actions? I completely disagree with the first notion, and if that's the case I find that to be a much larger problem for our society. If it is the second, then why not just pay a little more attention and say that?
QueensFan
Bench
I just read a really good article on ESPN.com that clarifies a lot of my feelings about Bonds and even helped ME figure out why I still side with the guy. Let's not forget, when the Babe set his record, he only had to face white competition. The game changes, and you have to evaluate players within their era. I think that's a key point that this article reminds us of. But there are other key points in here too that I'm not going to get into. If you're interested, check it out:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=murphy/060525
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=murphy/060525
My response to your second post in this thread is fairly simple to understand, and I don't know why you're having trouble with it:uolj said:
What I'm *saying* is that we, as a society, should discourage people from acting like *******s. And, as I said before, if I have to explain to somebody *why* we should discourage people from acting like *******s, then it's too late for our society, because we've become so far removed from any sense of moral relativity, that we're all doomed.
T
thesanityannex
Guest
Professional's signatures are not quite worth what they used to be, either are their sports cards. Go look on ebay if you'd like, you may be surprised.RoyalDiva said:
I remember when I was younger and collected cards, they were extremely valuable. I have every Ken Griffey Jr. rookie card in mint condition, had I sold them years ago, I could have made a hefty profit. Today, they are not even worth selling. I actually just got every Ron Artest card, including all rookie cards, for a mere 10 bucks. What ever happened to trading card value?
uolj
Starter
Ok, that's fine. You just didn't understand my post. I was saying that Bonds was not being an ******* in this instance- he took a picture with the guy, and was not, in my opinion, rude in declining the autograph request. Therefore, while we should as a society discourage people from being *******s, I was not in any way defending or rationalizing such behavior, because that behavior, in my opinion, didn't take place here. So that statement doesn't make much sense in the context of the thread, which is what I was trying to say.Mr. S£im Citrus said:
The only other option I can think of is that you did understand my post, but consider the opinion that it was not a classless act to be not only incorrect but completely invalid as well. If that was the case, then that's too bad. I can see how it would be easy to dismiss the opinion of somebody who thinks that Bonds never took steroids and is a great person and just completely misunderstood, but doing that in this case would be taking it too far, and still doesn't make sense to me.
T
thesanityannex
Guest
An ***hole is anyone who refuses to sign an autograph, yet requires the signature requester to sign something for him.
uolj
Starter
Seriously?thesanityannex said:
When did he "require" and when did he "refuse"?
The way I read it, a fan asked Bonds to sign a ball, Bonds declined. The fan asked Bonds for a picture, Bonds accepted. Bonds asked the fan to sign the waiver, and the fan accepted. (Not necessarily in that order.) Nobody forced anybody to do anything.
As I said before, I would probably not have done the same thing, but that doesn't make it classless, it makes it his decision.
slugking50
All-Star
You can pretty much kill the price of a ball if you personalize it. Unless its a ball of some significance the ball will be near worthless to a collecter.
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