And how will Bonds spin this?
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^^^ chris anderson
steroids are a problem in baseball, but there are other factors to the explosion of the home run ball, such as smaller ballparks which cheapen hr's, the mound has been lowered taking away the pichers advantage, things like that. it's not all steroids. there are so many bandbox ball parks, such as philly, houston, cincinatti, boston etc. these factors have also cheapened the game in a sense.
steroids are a problem in baseball, but there are other factors to the explosion of the home run ball, such as smaller ballparks which cheapen hr's, the mound has been lowered taking away the pichers advantage, things like that. it's not all steroids. there are so many bandbox ball parks, such as philly, houston, cincinatti, boston etc. these factors have also cheapened the game in a sense.
One thing that I wonder is in the court of law eye-witness testimony is considered to be completely valid even if no clear cut evidence is available. I don't understand how Bonds continues to get away with this stuff when there are eye-witness testimony claiming that he has taken these drugs.
And if you want any kind evidence get a picture of him in a Pirates Uniform and a picture now.
He's a cheater, just like Mark McGwire (was one of my baseball heroes) / Palimero / and Conseco. Go away Barry Bonds this sport nor does sports need you PERIOD.
And if you want any kind evidence get a picture of him in a Pirates Uniform and a picture now.
He's a cheater, just like Mark McGwire (was one of my baseball heroes) / Palimero / and Conseco. Go away Barry Bonds this sport nor does sports need you PERIOD.
The Problem is beyond just performance enhancing drugs. These athletes are being paid huge sums of money. And to protect their livelyhood they resort sometimes to cheating. Once people are paid to play a sport you are asking for corruption, cheating, and abuse. People just need to stop bitching about it.
How intriguing. You keep making rude comments about people needing to shut up and stop bitching. Why? Are you afraid the discussion may prove you wrong? (RHETORIAL question, you need not answer.)
I suggest you look around. This is a sports message board. On sports message board, people talk about - brace yourself - SPORTS. Last time I checked, baseball was still considered a sport so something like this, that has been blasted on virtually every type of media known to man and probably in outer space, is definitely a fair topic of discussion.
For the most part, people here, despite vastly different opinions, have managed to keep their conversations civil. That's one of the things about this website that I love the most.
You are the one that needs to tone it down and quit trying to stop people from having legitimate discussion about their various viewpoints. If you don't want to be part of the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
Thank you.
I suggest you look around. This is a sports message board. On sports message board, people talk about - brace yourself - SPORTS. Last time I checked, baseball was still considered a sport so something like this, that has been blasted on virtually every type of media known to man and probably in outer space, is definitely a fair topic of discussion.
For the most part, people here, despite vastly different opinions, have managed to keep their conversations civil. That's one of the things about this website that I love the most.
You are the one that needs to tone it down and quit trying to stop people from having legitimate discussion about their various viewpoints. If you don't want to be part of the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
Thank you.
I didn't post this yesterday because I didn't want to fuel the flames, but I think it's interesting. Read it and digest it, taking from it whatever you wish ... or nothing:
http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/columns/breton/story/14227257p-15051000c.html
Marcos Bretón: The charade is over for Bonds' backers
By Marcos Bretón -- Bee Sports Columnist
Published 2:15 am PST Wednesday, March 8, 2006
Two-hundred and ninety seven.
That's how many home runs Barry Bonds has hit since he began using steroids after the 1998 season, according to a new book by two San Francisco Chronicle reporters who have written the most comprehensive account ever told of steroid abuse in sports.
If we subtract those 297 from Bonds' 708 career home runs, you have 411 - a far more representative number for the lithe player Bonds was before bulking up beyond recognition.
But don't misunderstand. Not a single home run from Bonds' tainted tally will ever be subtracted, even if he slithers past Hank Aaron, the true king of homers.
Instead, Bonds' fraudulent conquering of hallowed records will be a "reality TV" muddle where truth pales before the freak show of human frailty.
Dude already dressed like Paula Abdul for his ESPN show last week. Why not wear the blonde wig during games to dispel the phony pretense of Bonds "surpassing" the honorable Aaron?
At least that would be mildly amusing, as it certainly will be come April 6 when Giants fans stand and cheer for Bonds no matter what at the home opener.
You know it's going to happen, always has before. As evidence against Bonds piled up, some of us dumbed down - screaming about "no proof" or growing drunk on Bonds' monstrous homers or claiming Bonds was the victim of racism.
That last part - about racism - is plainly a pile of manure big enough to fertilize SBC Park for life.
Did Mark McGwire's whiteness prevent him from becoming a public joke after stammering before Congress last year?
It did not. Nor can those who make excuses for Bonds hide in smoke screens any longer.
Sooner or later, the truth always comes out.
It came out in the case of Pete Rose, who lied for years about gambling on baseball - and attracted scores of defenders - before he finally fessed up.
And it will come out now. Consider this: Chronicle writers Mark Fainaru-Wada and Lance Williams provide exhaustive accounts of how Bonds' circle of steroid providers began injecting him in the buttocks after the 1998 season.
They show how the men behind the infamous BALCO lab in the Bay Area told federal investigators that they provided Bonds with undetectable steroids called "the cream" and "the clear."
They cite grand jury testimony from Bonds' girlfriend, who said under oath that Bonds admitted steroid use to help his aging body recover from injuries.
They describe federal evidence against Bonds, including steroid paraphernalia seized at the home of his "best friend" Greg Anderson - who allegedly kept calenders and other documents that detailed Bonds' steroid use.
It goes on and on and can be found in "Game of Shadows," set for release on March 27.
Some of you holdouts still might say that Bonds has never tested positive for steroids, but that argument is weak because the steroids Bonds claims to have used unknowingly were designed to avoid detection.
It means nothing to say you're clean when the steroids you're taking can't be detected unless someone blows the whistle - as someone did in the BALCO case.
Apologists can also claim that steroids won't help you hit a curveball, but that's another massive cop-out.
They won't help you hit a curveball, but they do help your body recuperate from the ravages of time, keeping your body strong when it otherwise would break down.
Ultimately, Barry Bonds is the first player in baseball to actually grow stronger and more dangerous at or near age 40 - when every other major slugger broke down or slowed down.
In the process, his body swelled in ways that experts cited by the Chronicle writers say is rare or impossible.
Yet the lie went on, the baseballs flew, and everyone at SBC Park cheered Bonds like a hero.
There is no doubt that Bonds was a great player before 1999, a Hall of Famer who might have reached 600 home runs and certainly would have been bronzed in a Cooperstown plaque and statue outside the Giants' current home.
What happens to him now? Only a much higher power than Commissioner Bud Selig knows for sure.
About the writer: Reach Marcos Bretón at (916) 321-1096 or mbreton@sacbee.com.
http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/columns/breton/story/14227257p-15051000c.html
Marcos Bretón: The charade is over for Bonds' backers
By Marcos Bretón -- Bee Sports Columnist
Published 2:15 am PST Wednesday, March 8, 2006
Two-hundred and ninety seven.
That's how many home runs Barry Bonds has hit since he began using steroids after the 1998 season, according to a new book by two San Francisco Chronicle reporters who have written the most comprehensive account ever told of steroid abuse in sports.
If we subtract those 297 from Bonds' 708 career home runs, you have 411 - a far more representative number for the lithe player Bonds was before bulking up beyond recognition.
But don't misunderstand. Not a single home run from Bonds' tainted tally will ever be subtracted, even if he slithers past Hank Aaron, the true king of homers.
Instead, Bonds' fraudulent conquering of hallowed records will be a "reality TV" muddle where truth pales before the freak show of human frailty.
Dude already dressed like Paula Abdul for his ESPN show last week. Why not wear the blonde wig during games to dispel the phony pretense of Bonds "surpassing" the honorable Aaron?
At least that would be mildly amusing, as it certainly will be come April 6 when Giants fans stand and cheer for Bonds no matter what at the home opener.
You know it's going to happen, always has before. As evidence against Bonds piled up, some of us dumbed down - screaming about "no proof" or growing drunk on Bonds' monstrous homers or claiming Bonds was the victim of racism.
That last part - about racism - is plainly a pile of manure big enough to fertilize SBC Park for life.
Did Mark McGwire's whiteness prevent him from becoming a public joke after stammering before Congress last year?
It did not. Nor can those who make excuses for Bonds hide in smoke screens any longer.
Sooner or later, the truth always comes out.
It came out in the case of Pete Rose, who lied for years about gambling on baseball - and attracted scores of defenders - before he finally fessed up.
And it will come out now. Consider this: Chronicle writers Mark Fainaru-Wada and Lance Williams provide exhaustive accounts of how Bonds' circle of steroid providers began injecting him in the buttocks after the 1998 season.
They show how the men behind the infamous BALCO lab in the Bay Area told federal investigators that they provided Bonds with undetectable steroids called "the cream" and "the clear."
They cite grand jury testimony from Bonds' girlfriend, who said under oath that Bonds admitted steroid use to help his aging body recover from injuries.
They describe federal evidence against Bonds, including steroid paraphernalia seized at the home of his "best friend" Greg Anderson - who allegedly kept calenders and other documents that detailed Bonds' steroid use.
It goes on and on and can be found in "Game of Shadows," set for release on March 27.
Some of you holdouts still might say that Bonds has never tested positive for steroids, but that argument is weak because the steroids Bonds claims to have used unknowingly were designed to avoid detection.
It means nothing to say you're clean when the steroids you're taking can't be detected unless someone blows the whistle - as someone did in the BALCO case.
Apologists can also claim that steroids won't help you hit a curveball, but that's another massive cop-out.
They won't help you hit a curveball, but they do help your body recuperate from the ravages of time, keeping your body strong when it otherwise would break down.
Ultimately, Barry Bonds is the first player in baseball to actually grow stronger and more dangerous at or near age 40 - when every other major slugger broke down or slowed down.
In the process, his body swelled in ways that experts cited by the Chronicle writers say is rare or impossible.
Yet the lie went on, the baseballs flew, and everyone at SBC Park cheered Bonds like a hero.
There is no doubt that Bonds was a great player before 1999, a Hall of Famer who might have reached 600 home runs and certainly would have been bronzed in a Cooperstown plaque and statue outside the Giants' current home.
What happens to him now? Only a much higher power than Commissioner Bud Selig knows for sure.
About the writer: Reach Marcos Bretón at (916) 321-1096 or mbreton@sacbee.com.
That says what I feel very, very well...
Armstrong and Getty made an observation yesterday. If fans can overlook this and still go to baseball because, more than anything else, they want to see Bonds smack a high fast ball into McCovey Cove that's fine with them. They now look at baseball the same way they look at the WWE. The sport isn't important; it's all about the entertainment.
Armstrong and Getty made an observation yesterday. If fans can overlook this and still go to baseball because, more than anything else, they want to see Bonds smack a high fast ball into McCovey Cove that's fine with them. They now look at baseball the same way they look at the WWE. The sport isn't important; it's all about the entertainment.
No one told you you could not post your opinion OF THE TOPIC. Read my comments again. I was really pretty specific. I was saying you can reply without resorting to "in your face" comments about whining, etc. I'm sorry if you're unable to comprehend the difference between the two.
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captain bill - The WWE is fiction. Entertainment, but fiction. Baseball was competition. Entertaining, but not false or contrived. If people don't care whether or not some players have a distinct advantage over others because they choose to take substances that will artificially alter their performance, ability to recover from injuries, etc. then IMHO baseball is now more about being entertained than it is about watching top athletes compete on a level playing field.
When I look back on the game in the 60s and up until it became more about home runs than anything else, it was totally different. I don't know how old you are, but perhaps we're just speaking from totally different perspectives.
Going to a game didn't mean just wanting to see homeruns, although they were certainly fun. It was about seeing Mays come barreling in from center field to make one of his patented bucket catches. It was seeing Jose Pagan stealing second with seconds to spare. It was about seeing Don Drysdale or Sandy Koufax come into San Francisco and try and keep Mays and McCovey from ruining their day. It was watching a sweet double play to end a rally.
Slowly but surely that seemed to change. More and more emphasis is placed on the sluggers and less and less, IMHO, on the other players on the field. How often do you really hear people talking about golden glove shortstops? Catchers don't receive anything NEAR the respect they should garner.
It's all about the home runs. And it's about doing whatever it takes so players will be able to hit those long bombs and get the fans out of their seats. It's no longer just the joy of the entire game...and that's sad.
So, again in my most humble opinion, I walked away from watching a game I grew up loving. And at times I guess I still miss it ... and resent what's been done to it.
Just like basketball is about so MUCH more than just a showtime dunk, baseball used to be about so much more than just the big lug who could hit the ball out of the park more than anyone else.
I hope that makes sense...
Peace.
---------------------------------------------------
captain bill - The WWE is fiction. Entertainment, but fiction. Baseball was competition. Entertaining, but not false or contrived. If people don't care whether or not some players have a distinct advantage over others because they choose to take substances that will artificially alter their performance, ability to recover from injuries, etc. then IMHO baseball is now more about being entertained than it is about watching top athletes compete on a level playing field.
When I look back on the game in the 60s and up until it became more about home runs than anything else, it was totally different. I don't know how old you are, but perhaps we're just speaking from totally different perspectives.
Going to a game didn't mean just wanting to see homeruns, although they were certainly fun. It was about seeing Mays come barreling in from center field to make one of his patented bucket catches. It was seeing Jose Pagan stealing second with seconds to spare. It was about seeing Don Drysdale or Sandy Koufax come into San Francisco and try and keep Mays and McCovey from ruining their day. It was watching a sweet double play to end a rally.
Slowly but surely that seemed to change. More and more emphasis is placed on the sluggers and less and less, IMHO, on the other players on the field. How often do you really hear people talking about golden glove shortstops? Catchers don't receive anything NEAR the respect they should garner.
It's all about the home runs. And it's about doing whatever it takes so players will be able to hit those long bombs and get the fans out of their seats. It's no longer just the joy of the entire game...and that's sad.
So, again in my most humble opinion, I walked away from watching a game I grew up loving. And at times I guess I still miss it ... and resent what's been done to it.
Just like basketball is about so MUCH more than just a showtime dunk, baseball used to be about so much more than just the big lug who could hit the ball out of the park more than anyone else.
I hope that makes sense...
Peace.
T
The only problem I have with Bonds is the fact that he lied. Just admit it dude, get it over with.
Steroids were widely used during that time period. I have a close friend who played for the Padres and he admitted to doing them as well, reason being he had to "keep up with the league". Bonds needs to step up and just admit it, had he done so long ago, all this would have been forgotten. People have forgotten and forgiven Sosa and McGwire, it could have been the same for Bonds. But......the guy has some screws loose. I can't wait for this to become concrete evidence so Bonds is finally proven the liar that he is.
Steroids were widely used during that time period. I have a close friend who played for the Padres and he admitted to doing them as well, reason being he had to "keep up with the league". Bonds needs to step up and just admit it, had he done so long ago, all this would have been forgotten. People have forgotten and forgiven Sosa and McGwire, it could have been the same for Bonds. But......the guy has some screws loose. I can't wait for this to become concrete evidence so Bonds is finally proven the liar that he is.
Well I would disagree... if he was on the juice (which I think it's pretty clear that he was) then he broke Federal Law, which happens to trump MLB rules.
IMO the last decade of baseball is a complete joke. What records are real and which are from the juice?. Bring on the WWF!
I can hardly bring myself to watch anymore and I used to be a diehard... baseball used to be my favorite of the pro sports. I question that any of this past decade is legit. Even some of the great pitchers I have to question.
Selig is by far the worst commish of any sports, possibly of all time. What a way to run one of the most popular sports into the ground. He is part of the problem, I put the blame on the players but Selig and the Players assoc sat on their hands way to long.
Remember the reasons we all heard for why BigMac/Sammy Corker/Bonds were hitting more HR's?
Ball wound tighter or the ole pitching was worse because of more teams....I remember a 20/20 special dedicated the ball being wound tighter.
Now they probably have roids that are undetectable again. It's going to be hard to question when in 10 years or so all these players in the past era will start dropping like flies.
IMO the last decade of baseball is a complete joke. What records are real and which are from the juice?. Bring on the WWF!
I can hardly bring myself to watch anymore and I used to be a diehard... baseball used to be my favorite of the pro sports. I question that any of this past decade is legit. Even some of the great pitchers I have to question.
Selig is by far the worst commish of any sports, possibly of all time. What a way to run one of the most popular sports into the ground. He is part of the problem, I put the blame on the players but Selig and the Players assoc sat on their hands way to long.
Remember the reasons we all heard for why BigMac/Sammy Corker/Bonds were hitting more HR's?
Ball wound tighter or the ole pitching was worse because of more teams....I remember a 20/20 special dedicated the ball being wound tighter.
Now they probably have roids that are undetectable again. It's going to be hard to question when in 10 years or so all these players in the past era will start dropping like flies.
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big time. all the changes that have been made are watering down the sport
smaller ball parks, lower mounds, too many teams!!!!! the game is being geared towards hitting home runs ( thus the smaller parks, steriods etc) which will draw fans in. i like home runs and all, but hell, give me a 1-0 win for the home team, a fight and claw win, that is MUCH more entertianing then seeing a much of bandbox home runs and terrible pitchers.
all that and the yankees. their spending is OUT OF CONTROL, it's ridiculous they are allowed to spend the money they do. i know, i know they are doing what they are allowed to do, but it's such a joke. ah well, the good news is as the payroll goes up, their playoff stock has gone down. gotta love that!
smaller ball parks, lower mounds, too many teams!!!!! the game is being geared towards hitting home runs ( thus the smaller parks, steriods etc) which will draw fans in. i like home runs and all, but hell, give me a 1-0 win for the home team, a fight and claw win, that is MUCH more entertianing then seeing a much of bandbox home runs and terrible pitchers.
all that and the yankees. their spending is OUT OF CONTROL, it's ridiculous they are allowed to spend the money they do. i know, i know they are doing what they are allowed to do, but it's such a joke. ah well, the good news is as the payroll goes up, their playoff stock has gone down. gotta love that!
The law states the OJ is innocent. End of the argument. And Barry Bonds hasn't been caught so even though everyone and their mother suspects something the letter of the law has not been broken. With everyones knee-jerk reaction to Bonds one would think that we are witnessing a modern day witch trail. If he floats then he is a witch, if he sinks he is innocent but dead.