Anaheim Ducks hurting

Section 101

Section 101

All-Star
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/31/hockey-valuations-10_Anaheim-Ducks_310658.html

The skinny

Ducks owner Henry Samueli was reinstated by the league last season. He had suspended indefinitely by NHL commissioner Gary Bettman from running the team in June 2008 after entering a guilty plea to making false statements to the Securities and Exchange Commission regarding the backdating of stock options at Broadcom, the company he co-founded. It didn't help matters as the Ducks missed the playoffs and posted an operating loss. Samueli, a member for the Forbes 400, is worth $1.7 billion and is committed to maintaining control of the team along with his wife, Susan. The Ducks won the Stanley Cup in 2007 but have seen their fortunes erode on and off the ice since then. During the past three years their season ticket base has fallen from 15,000 to 10,000. The Ducks do not have a lot of room to sign high-priced talent after giving winger Bobby Ryan a five-year, $25.5 million deal. And without the benefit of an NBA team using the Honda Center, Samueli needs the Ducks to reach the second round of the playoffs to make a profit.

Major corporate sponsors are Center For New Medicine, Travel Alberta, PepsiCo (nyse: PEP), MillerCoors.
Naming rights sponsor is Honda Motor (nyse: HMC).
Click to expand...
So the Ducks are hurting, love those season ticket numbers. Ya, Anaheim is real supportive.
 
To be fair, Hockey never has had much of draw anywhere south of the Mason/Dixon, but I get the point you are making...
 
Pretty much supports what we've been saying about that market since the beginning. I think the Maloof boys really have their heads in the clouds about this move. They think their "celebrity" status is going to make them the darlings of Socal and everyone will just fill the building to soak up their presence. I think the pot of gold is fools gold.

That said, Sacramento is still a questionable market unless they come up with a financed plan for a new sports facility. It's the one thing the NBA will throw in our face time and time again until KJ and the council proves otherwise. The NBA will push for a move away from here because of the history of failure in getting a new facility built. KJ has one more home run to hit...
 
Last edited:
east_sac said:
To be fair, Hockey never has had much of draw anywhere south of the Mason/Dixon, but I get the point you are making...
Click to expand...

I don't disagree. But the LA Kings averaged 18,066 for a 99.7 percentage. The LA Kings attendace is trending upwards where the ducks is going down. In 08/09 the ducks had 98.9% to the LA Kings 89.1%.
 
Also, the LA Angels were voted the best run franchise in North America a couple a years ago. Arte Moreno knows how to run an organization as the Angels are competitive year in and year out. Heck, even their minor league teams are competitive. He cut tickets prices and showed a willingness to spend money on big name free agents. Maloofs are no where near as astute as Moreno.
 
ArcoKings said:
Maybe not for the Ducks but across the street the Angels draw 3 million fans and are stealing Dodger fans. As such, I think the same might be for the Kings/Royals in terms of support (like the Ducks) even though BB is more popular than hockey here in Socal.
Click to expand...

Really? Stealing dodger fans? Where did that come from?

So lets look at the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/33/baseball-valuations-10_Los-Angeles-Angels-of-Anaheim_338666.html

The skinny
Arte Moreno has focused on keeping fans coming out to the ballpark during the recession. The Angels average ticket price was $20 last season, 3.5% below 2008 and among the lowest in MLB. This enabled the team to draw an average of 40,000 a game to Angel Stadium, just 1,100 less than 2008. One area where the Angels are slumping is regional sports network FS West. Last season the team averaged a 1.22 rating 10% below 2008 despite capturing their third-straight AL Western Division title.
Click to expand...

Now the Dodgers

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/33/baseball-valuations-10_Los-Angeles-Dodgers_338671.html

The skinny
In 2009 the Dodgers became the first team other than the Yankees to lead the league in attendance since 2002 when Seattle was tops. The Dodgers drew 3.8 million fans (over 46,000 per game), 30,000 more than their cumulative total in 2008. The team won the NL West Division for the second consecutive season with a modest big-market payroll of $113 million. The Dodgers used naming rights deals for certain sections of their stadium to generate revenue, like one with snacks retailer ampm and one that was themed around the Warner Bros. film Terminator Salvation. Although team owner Frank McCourt has postponed developing the area around Dodger Stadium into an entertainment destination because of the bad real estate market, the team did open its new spring training facility last season, Camelback Ranch-Glendale, a 13,000 person stadium it shares with the Chicago White Sox in Arizona.
Click to expand...
 
Found the forbes 2011 data.

Angels http://www.forbes.com/lists/2011/33/baseball-valuations-11_Los-Angeles-Angels-of-Anaheim_338666.html

Angels dropped to #9 from #7.

The skinny

The Angels had baseball's eighth highest payroll in 2010, but managed to win only 80 games. It was the first time since 2003 the Halos finished with a losing record. Fox Sports West has got be a little disappointed in the $500 million, 10-year deal it signed with the Angels in 2006 to televise the team's games on the regional sports channel as the team's average rating on FS West was just 1.2. The only team with a worse RSN rating in baseball was Oakland. But perhaps because the Angels had the fourth-lowest average general seating ticket price ($19) in the Major Leagues, the team's attendance held steady in 2010, averaging 40,134 per game.
Click to expand...

Dodger http://www.forbes.com/lists/2011/33/baseball-valuations-11_Los-Angeles-Dodgers_338671.html

Went from #4 to #3

The skinny

The Dodgers are caught in the middle of legal battle between owner Frank McCourt and his estranged wife, Jamie, a former executive with the team. McCourt may have to sell the Dodgers if he cannot come up with the money to buy out Jamie, who thinks the team is worth more than $1 billion. But Frank may have trouble coming up with the cash to buy her out. The holding company for the Dodgers has over $600 million in liabilities and was turned down by Major League Baseball for more credit. McCourt has already gotten an advance from Fox, the RSN that televises Dodgers game, to help him out. McCourt has also been looking for investors for loans or to buy minority stakes but has thus far been rebuffed
Click to expand...
 
Hmmm...sounds like Samueli needs the Maloofs just as much as they need him.

With all this stuff coming out in recent days I can see why and how KJ went to NY with both barrels loaded. :cool:
 
SacTownKid said:
Hmmm...sounds like Samueli needs the Maloofs just as much as they need him.

With all this stuff coming out in recent days I can see why and how KJ went to NY with both barrels loaded. :cool:
Click to expand...

both losing money??

I don't see how it would work mathematically if they are both losing money

-1 + -1 = - 2

I don't see it making ANY business sense also if another fanbase of a sports team is ailing... given that it's still struggling despite recent success and having another team alongside it right? (LA kings are near them right..)

I'd like to see the disparity between LA and Clipper fanbase, adding a third factor, the maloofs better be ready to shell out money to keep a steady flow of attendance. I don't know what they see in anaheim really.
 
Last edited:
What a great way to gauge the market! No ice ponds and no ice skating rinks, kids did not grow up playing or even caring about hockey, it just isnt in the fabric of the region, yet its a good gauge of fan support for basketball? Nice thinking there!

Basketball support>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hockey in SoCal and it isnt even close. There is no secret that hockey isnt very important here, its remarkable that they even get that many fans. The Royals would flourish here, without a doubt.

This is a basketball and baseball region. The Lakers, Clippers, Dodgers, and Angels are doing extremely well in both financials and fan support. The Royals would enjoy that success, no doubt about it.
 
Why people continually link hockey attendance to a NBA fanbase is beyond me. So cal is not a hockey market. At all.
 
DrewTheRipper said:
What a great way to gauge the market! No ice ponds and no ice skating rinks, kids did not grow up playing or even caring about hockey, it just isnt in the fabric of the region, yet its a good gauge of fan support for basketball? Nice thinking there!

Basketball support>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hockey in SoCal and it isnt even close. There is no secret that hockey isnt very important here, its remarkable that they even get that many fans. The Royals would flourish here, without a doubt.

This is a basketball and baseball region. The Lakers, Clippers, Dodgers, and Angels are doing extremely well in both financials and fan support. The Royals would enjoy that success, no doubt about it.
Click to expand...

No they wouldn't. SoCal is Laker town, and the Kings wouldn't do any better than the Clippers (if that). The Kings have it made up here, and hopefully this is where they will stay. LA does not need another basketball team.
 
DrewTheRipper said:
What a great way to gauge the market! No ice ponds and no ice skating rinks, kids did not grow up playing or even caring about hockey, it just isnt in the fabric of the region, yet its a good gauge of fan support for basketball? Nice thinking there!

Basketball support>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hockey in SoCal and it isnt even close. There is no secret that hockey isnt very important here, its remarkable that they even get that many fans. The Royals would flourish here, without a doubt.

This is a basketball and baseball region. The Lakers, Clippers, Dodgers, and Angels are doing extremely well in both financials and fan support. The Royals would enjoy that success, no doubt about it.
Click to expand...

lol
 
DrewTheRipper said:
This is a basketball and baseball region. The Lakers, Clippers, Dodgers, and Angels are doing extremely well in both financials and fan support. The Royals would enjoy that success, no doubt about it.
Click to expand...

Did you read my other posts where the Angels arent getting TV ratings? The only reason their attendance has remained up is because they are on the bottom of ticket prices. What happened with the Rams?

The market is the biggest fair weather fans on the planet. The only time they show up consistantly is for a title contender.
 
Section 101 said:
Did you read my other posts where the Angels arent getting TV ratings? The only reason their attendance has remained up is because they are on the bottom of ticket prices. What happened with the Rams?

The market is the biggest fair weather fans on the planet. The only time they show up consistantly is for a title contender.
Click to expand...

This!!!^^^

Edit: everything is a novelty in the land of 'the mouse'...the 'Rally Monkey' brought quite a few people out to the Big A during their World Series run a few years back...then people jumped on the Ducks wagon when they were on their Stanley Cup run a few years back too, and now have jumped off in just a few short years. Guess the NHL novelty wore off pretty quick there too. If the Kings were even just a competitive playoff team, we'd be SRO at Arco, like always the past 26 years...no novelty here, thank you!
 
Last edited:
No novelty? Why aren't you guys selling out now then? I understand you had an impressive sting of sellouts. That's expected considering, the Kings are the entertainment of your town and the only show. They literally have no competition. Why haven't you guys been selling out the past few years though? You don't like the product on the court? I though die hard fans went no matter what or something? Considering there is absolutely no other alternative and not much else to do there, you would think that arena would still be selling out.

The last few years, I have seen a good amount of Laker fans in your very own building with MVP chants for Kobe. You can't tell me all of those people traveled all the way from LA. I remember in the early 2000's there were nothing but Kings fans up there, now I see more and more Laker fans. What happened? You would never ever see Staples overrun with other fans. You don't even see that at Clipper games. It appears you have fairweather fans of your own.

Listen, you guys have passionate fans and we have passionate fans. We do have fairweather fans and you have fairweather fans. You aren't any different than anyone else.
 
Last edited:
Drew, you seem like a passionate sports fan. And yes, every region has it's share of passionate fans as well as bandwagon fans.

But you have to understand our perspective as Kings fans. We KNOW we love basketball and specifically this team. On the other hand, the response from Anaheim residents as a whole about possibly getting the Kings/Royals seems completely muted.

Why is news about the move buried in the back of the OC Register? More than that, how is it that Randy Youngman seems to be the only columnist reporting on this whole ordeal - with poor or nonexistant research at that?

Outside of yourself I haven't seen ANY Anaheim/OC residents (save for ones that were already long time Kings fans) posting on this board, ostensibly the largest and most active message board of the team?

I would imagine that Anaheim/OC residents that are NBA fans have already given their allegiance to the Lakers, Clippers or their home team if they are transplants. Can you honestly tell me that most of them will switch allegiances to the Kings/Royals?

I suppose that's what makes the prospect of losing the team I grew up with more painful for me - that I haven't seen any signs that the market that would be getting them is even excited by the idea.
 
Trust me, there are people that are excited down here, but a large amount of people don't even know about it. For some reason, this is hardly reported it seems. More and more people do not read newspapers these days, and its not like its front page news on ESPN.com, and even when you go to the Los Angeles/OC section of ESPN, there might be one story every two days, it seem ESPN lags with this news. I see several small pages on facebook popping up with people looking forward to the move, many of those pages appear to be increasing in likes. One already has over 700 and I see it increasing every day as the news continues to circle through the region.

People in Anaheim do enjoy basketball. I remember when the Clippers plaid there for a few games in the 90's every game was sold out. This was around the time when the Clippers move to Anaheim was a very real possibility. The next season, attendance for the Clippers dipped in Anaheim as it was well known that the Clippers would be moving into Staples. This also proves that LA =/= Anaheim. Anaheim wants its own stuff, and many feel humiliated that the Angels call themselvse the LA Angels, yet they still support.

I found this site two days ago, but I really had to shut down the myth that there are nothing but bandwagon fans here and nowhere else. Every city has it...AND I MEAN EVERY CITY. If a team puts out a bad product for a long period of time, people will stop pumping their money into it eventually, and thats how it should be. No one should be putting their hard earned money into a bad product, it doesnt make sense. Especially when there are other alternatives.
 
Last edited:
funkykingston said:
Drew, you seem like a passionate sports fan. And yes, every region has it's share of passionate fans as well as bandwagon fans.

But you have to understand our perspective as Kings fans. We KNOW we love basketball and specifically this team. On the other hand, the response from Anaheim residents as a whole about possibly getting the Kings/Royals seems completely muted.

Why is news about the move buried in the back of the OC Register? More than that, how is it that Randy Youngman seems to be the only columnist reporting on this whole ordeal - with poor or nonexistant research at that?

Outside of yourself I haven't seen ANY Anaheim/OC residents (save for ones that were already long time Kings fans) posting on this board, ostensibly the largest and most active message board of the team?

I would imagine that Anaheim/OC residents that are NBA fans have already given their allegiance to the Lakers, Clippers or their home team if they are transplants. Can you honestly tell me that most of them will switch allegiances to the Kings/Royals?

I suppose that's what makes the prospect of losing the team I grew up with more painful for me - that I haven't seen any signs that the market that would be getting them is even excited by the idea.
Click to expand...

They had the same problem in Portland with the Blazers for a good handful of seasons, they love the game and they love there Blazers, but couldn't put 12,000 butts in seats in a 20,000 seat arena. The Blazers are the only game in town and are loved by the entire state of Oregon and have been the past 40 years...so there was no question of loyalty during the down years, people were frustrated by the attitude of the team and its mismanagement during the rebuild...look at them now, with all the new blood and incredible blue collar attitude by the TEAM...people came out of the hibernation they were in as fans for a few dismal, discouraging years. The same can happen here in Sacramento...I can't say they would have the same fortunes as we have the past few years...with the Lakers and Clippers owning that market already the past 30-50 years.
 
Last edited:
Let's be honest here. The move to Anaheim has been rumored for months and confirmed by Anaheim's mayor nearly a month ago. And it was reported on ESPN, local news here AND in Anaheim, basketball sites like RealGM, and commented on directly by Phil Jackson, the crew at TNT etc.

In this day and age when people sign up for twitter accounts to hear every word their favorite celebrity says the instant they say it and when the internet means the evening news is now 6 hours behind the news cycle, how can it be possible that the basketball fans in Anaheim are just now discovering this proposed move?

Again, I don't doubt that YOU are excited. And I don't doubt that there ARE a lot of fans that would adopt the Kings and be passionate about them. But I am old enough to remember when the Kings came to Sacramento. It was front page news and the city was abuzz about it. Not to mention a market half the size of the OC (and substantially smaller then) already had more than 3 times as many season ticket pledges at what would be roughly the same equivalent time.

There hasn't been anything to convince me in any conceivable way that the community's overall reaction to the notion they might get the Kings is anything other than either blase "who cares?" or "Queens suck, but at least it will be a shorter drive to a few Lakers games".
 
DrewTheRipper said:
Trust me, there are people that are excited down here, but a large amount of people don't even know about it. For some reason, this is hardly reported it seems. More and more people do not read newspapers these days, and its not like its front page news on ESPN.com, and even when you go to the Los Angeles/OC section of ESPN, there might be one story every two days, it seem ESPN lags with this news. I see several small pages on facebook popping up with people looking forward to the move, many of those pages appear to be increasing in likes. One already has over 700 and I see it increasing every day as the news continues to circle through the region.

People in Anaheim do enjoy basketball. I remember when the Clippers plaid there for a few games in the 90's every game was sold out. This was around the time when the Clippers move to Anaheim was a very real possibility. The next season, attendance for the Clippers dipped in Anaheim as it was well known that the Clippers would be moving into Staples. This also proves that LA =/= Anaheim. Anaheim wants its own stuff, and many feel humiliated that the Angels call themselvse the LA Angels, yet they still support.

I found this site two days ago, but I really had to shut down the myth that there are nothing but bandwagon fans here and nowhere else. Every city has it...AND I MEAN EVERY CITY. If a team puts out a bad product for a long period of time, people will stop pumping their money into it eventually, and thats how it should be. No one should be putting their hard earned money into a bad product, it doesnt make sense. Especially when there are other alternatives.
Click to expand...

LOL a LOT of people don't even know about it yet?

And the reason our attendance is down because of;
A) Economy
B) Magoofs spending no money on the team
C) Ticket prices going up while team talent goes down

That being saif you saw what happened when the Kings put a good product on the floor at the end of the season? After they got Thorton? Yah that's right. Attendance was up past 16k again on average. (17317 selout). Give us something to root for and we will be there.

You guys don't need another team down there. We need it up here.. So go back to anaheimroyalty.. kthx.
 
Circa_1985_Fan said:
They had the same problem in Portland with the Blazers for a good handful of seasons, they love the game and they love there Blazers, but couldn't put 12,000 butts in seats in a 20,000 seat arena. The Blazers are the only game in town and are loved by the entire state of Oregon and have been the past 40 years...so there was no question of loyalty during the down years, people were frustrated by the attitude of the team and its mismanagement during the rebuild...look at them now, with all the new blood and incredible blue collar attitude by the TEAM...people came out of the hibernation they were in as fans for a few dismal, discouraging years. The same can happen here in Sacramento...I can't say they would have the same fortunes as we have the past few years...with the Lakers and Clippers owning that market already the past 30-50 years.
Click to expand...

An interesting compare and contrast there. Both small market teams with a long history of rabid support who saw attendance dip despite being the only game in town as it were.

In Portland's case it was a matter of turning off the fans by continuing to bring in talented but troubled players such that nationally they were known as the "Jail Blazers". In that instance bad management pushed loyal fans away.

In Sacramento, I think it was a combination of factors. Higher ticket prices in a down economy is the biggest part. Combine that with the team having some of its worst seasons (record wise) since they've been in Sacramento after being an actual contender just a few year's prior and the looming cloud of relocation and it's not hard to see why the numbers are down.

But again, let's be honest. How many teams would have had the same string of sellouts that the Kings did in the 80's and 90's while being perennial doormats. Sacramento has nothing to prove regarding it's loyalty to its team. If somehow an arena deal is struck and the team stays put you'll see Arco (and it will always be Arco to me) packed again next year, provided the lockout doesn't wipe out the season altogether.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Mike0476
Are NBA's Kings Anaheim-bound?
Replies
5
Views
1K
hrdboild
hrdboild
Circa_1985_Fan
LA Times: 'Honda Center owners, Anaheim start project to lure Sacramento Kings.'
Replies
8
Views
2K
kennadog
kennadog
VF21
Kreidler: Anaheim man will tell it as it is
Replies
5
Views
2K
gman23
gman23
Back
Top