Amick: Kings find themselves at another turning point

[pshn80]

I'm only going to say this once cause it's been bothering me, and then I'm not participating in any more Mike Malone related discussions because they go nowhere.

If you weren't on board with Malone when he was here than you'll never get it because it's about a lot more than just 15 games. I liked Malone the first time I heard him speak. Knew nothing about him but he was genuine, no nonsense. and it was obvious that he really loved coaching defense. I liked him even more when I saw him playing better man-to-man defense against prospects in pre-draft workouts than half the players on our team did during the season. This is before he coached a single game. The roster he inherited was a mess, it took some time to sort that out, but what was clear in the time he was here is that he earned the respect of his players. And for a brief moment in time we became a team that was actually surpassing expectations. We didn't just win more than we lost early that season, we were playing tough perennial playoff teams and blowing them out. We were playing the best team defense I've seen a Kings team play since 2002.

Apparently this is a difficult concept to understand because I'm still reading nonsense about there being some kind of cult dedicated to the memory of 15 regular season games. That's not it at all. The reason this is so hard to give up for some of us is because we spent nearly a decade watching a revolving door of supposed coaching prodigies say all the right things and then do all the wrong ones and finally we had a guy here who talked very little but practiced what he preached. There was even a brief moment where it looked like we were actually going to be the up and coming team the rest of the league was worried about and then it was over. And now we'll never know. And everything that's happened after that has only made it harder to swallow.

Some of the folks here who've defended management the hardest for the past 10 years have finally said enough is enough. I see a lot of new names stepping in to pick up that fight, which is their prerogative. Maybe they're lurkers who've just recently decided to join in. I'm not accusing anyone of anything. Just don't condescend to call those of us unreasonable who are fed up with the dysfunction and maybe even a little angry about it. Just because I don't want to explain in every post exactly why I liked Coach Malone doesn't mean it's something as arbitrary and reductive as a 15 game sample.

Am I unreasonably hard on George Karl because he represents everything our misguided front office openly pined for as they tried to justify firing a coach that our franchise player loved playing for? Probably. But if he had the team playing well I'd get over it. If his running junkball basketball actually had us in first place I'd have to show him respect, even though it's not how I think basketball should be played. But it's not working. It's not working and it's terrible to watch. Screw waiting a full season. The precedent has been set. Get him the hell out of here.

Is Vivek finally willing to admit he was wrong? I would hope so. Businessmen don't usually experience the level of success he has without a certain amount of common sense and survival instinct and the willingness to admit to themselves, if no one else, when they're wrong. We'll see.

Excellent summation of Malone and his positive ways with the team and defense. It reflects my sentiments about him.

He is gone. The FO gross error is behind us. They were forced to hire a new coach. They hired Karl. Forty percent of the way into the season it s not working and it is unclear whether it will work and get better.

Talking about Malone adds nothing to our current situation. Your post is an excellent one in my eyes until it concludes that Karl mus go.

 

[hrdboild]

I liked Malone, and I think it was a big mistake to fire him- mostly because it seemed like he had a good relationship with Cousins.
I never thought he was a great coach (I can name on one hand the guys I put in that category) but he was decent (he had his issues which a lot of people complained about at the time).
But I do think that he is being glorified here, and it is mostly about those 15 games (and also the way it ended).

Malone is now the coach of the Denver Nuggets- which is one of only 4 teams who's defense is worse than ours.
His first season we had one of the worst defenses in the league (23th).
And even during that famous 9-6 run- our defense was nothing more than average (15th).
What helped us was that we led the league in FT attempts, and enjoyed a very low opponent 3pt percent- both are arguably unsustainable since the FT rate was far higher than normal, and research showed that the measure of a good 3pt defending team is in the number of attempts and not 3pt% (especially since we are talking about a short span- and in the year before under Malone we were amongst the worst at 3pt%) and we were one of the worst at the number of attempts we allowed from 3 (26th).

So there is a lot of people who sing his praises a little too much, but I agree that the mistake of firing him and alienating Cuz in the process is something that we are still paying for.

There's something else though that I don't think I conveyed as well as I wanted to. Part of the reason I hold Malone in such high regard (while acknowledging that he was not perfect either and needed to continue learning more about offensive game planning) is that he represented the first attempt by this franchise to finally abandon our illustrious past as offensive trendsetters and forge a new identity in the trenches as a meat and potatoes defense and rebounding team. We weren't all the way there yet but with an All Star big man in the post and a Gregg Popovich disciple on the sideline you could see where we were headed.

I loved watching "the greatest show on court" as much as anyone, but Geoff Petrie seemed handcuffed by the unfulfilled promise of that team as much as the Maloofs' dwindling finances. He was perpetually looking for the next Peja, the next Doug, the next Bobby and it just wasn't going to happen. Lightning wasn't going to strike twice. We needed to move on and establish a new identity.

This is also where the irrational hatred for the recent success of that other Northern California basketball team comes from. For most of their existence I had nothing against them and probably wouldn't now if not for the obvious magnetic pull they've exerted on our new owner, and frankly, for most of the league. There's exactly one Steph Curry in the NBA. No Seth Curry is not anywhere close to being the same player, and likely never will be. Not every franchise is going to find success running their system. And yet here's a wide eyed new owner caught up in the delirium of his apopted team in the Bay, now handed the keys to his very own sports franchise and eager to prove he belongs. So now we're back in crazy town trying to run and chuck and win with style points instead of grit and determination. Color me not amused.

 

[Kingster]

Somehow they weren't when Malone was the coach.

Karl has become separated from the team. He talks in terms of "them" "the team", very different that Malone always using "we" and putting himself with, and behind them, while still managing to hold the team accountable. Holding a team accountable can be done without pointing a finger and making what feel like accusations, which really only serve to sever you from the team emotionally. I was very, very impressed at how Malone did this, and, I think it is an essential skill for an NBA coach. Pop does this too. You speak as a Sergeant, on the ground, in the fight, WITH your team. You don't speak as a General, removed from the action.

The hell they weren't! Cousins career, including his tenure with Malone, is of long draughts of mental midgetry - moodiness, frustration, TOs, smirks, and referee attacks - with short stints of mental toughness. They had a good twenty game stretch with Malone in his second year and now one-fourth of one season is held out as evidence of mental toughness? By definition, mental toughness requires consistency over long periods of time, not a minor vacation from petulance, moodiness, woe-is-me self-pity, selfishness, and arrogance.

 

[funkykingston]

There's something else though that I don't think I conveyed as well as I wanted to. Part of the reason I hold Malone in such high regard (while acknowledging that he was not perfect either and needed to continue learning more about offensive game planning) is that he represented the first attempt by this franchise to finally abandon our illustrious past as offensive trendsetters and forge a new identity in the trenches as a meat and potatoes defense and rebounding team. We weren't all the way there yet but with an All Star big man in the post and a Gregg Popovich disciple on the sideline you could see where we were headed.

I loved watching "the greatest show on court" as much as anyone, but Geoff Petrie seemed handcuffed by the unfulfilled promise of that team as much as the Maloofs' dwindling finances. He was perpetually looking for the next Peja, the next Doug, the next Bobby and it just wasn't going to happen. Lightning wasn't going to strike twice. We needed to move on and establish a new identity.

This is also where the irrational hatred for the recent success of that other Northern California basketball team comes from. For most of their existence I had nothing against them and probably wouldn't now if not for the obvious magnetic pull they've exerted on our new owner, and frankly, for most of the league. There's exactly one Steph Curry in the NBA. No Seth Curry is not anywhere close to being the same player, and likely never will be. Not every franchise is going to find success running their system. And yet here's a wide eyed new owner caught up in the delirium of his apopted team in the Bay, now handed the keys to his very own sports franchise and eager to prove he belongs. So now we're back in crazy town trying to run and chuck and win with style points instead of grit and determination. Color me not amused.

If I were to jot down my idea of a blueprint for building (or rebuilding) a winning NBA franchise it would look like this:

• A franchise level player
• One definite all-star level player or two near all-star level players that compliment the main guy
• A coach who has a sustainable but flexible system that maximizes his team's talent
• A GM with great talent evaluation skills who works in concert with his coach to fill out the roster with needed role players and with the foresight to build for near term and long term success.
• An owner with the deep pockets and commitment to spending to field a winning team while leaving basketball decisions to his GM and coach
• The patience to let things build while the roster, coach and GM all grow together

Vivek's first decision was whether or not he felt Cousins was/is a franchise player. He decided that he was. Rudy Gay (and this season Rondo) were acquired as the secondary stars.

We can argue about Boogie being the right guy, argue over how good Rudy & Rajon are and whether they fit well with Cousins, but the logic was there.

Outside of that the Kings under Vivek have broken every single rule.

Meddling owner, lack of teamwork between GM and coach, no stability, no cohesive or logical system on offense or defense, a disregard for the long term health of the team (cap room, traded 1st rounders), and most of all zero patience or willingness to let things build.

Now every move seems like a reaction instead of a plan. And the team still isn't poised to move forward. Karl will either be fired or coach out his contract but even at best he's a band-aid, not a building block.

I really like Malone but acknowledged that he wasn't a great head coach. But he had the potential to be and was exactly the type of coach that you could see being in place for a decade or more. He and Vlade working hand in hand could possibly be the type of foundation a winning team needs.

Instead I think the Kings will likely end up firing another coach and/or doing a complete rebuild and either option means more losing seasons to come. Possibly lots of them.

I've never been in favor of it before but maybe it really is time to blow things up completely.

 

[pshn80]

Funkykingston, I think yout second to last paragraph unfortunately is an accurate picture of where we are and what that means. Either Karl or Cuz has to go. It seems most want that to be Karl. If so, that leaves us with Cuz. That for me is worse than leaving s with Karl. I do believe that Karl's biggest problem is Cuz and it would be the same for any coach. So it is a tough problem either way. The only sliver of hope is to continue to see if they can work it out and make a better match and play scheme and better conditioning and commitment from Cuz. If that would happen our other problems- Gay, defense, turnovers, winning- would begin to fall into place. Maybe a sliver of hope.

 

[The Hammer]

The hell they weren't! Cousins career, including his tenure with Malone, is of long draughts of mental midgetry - moodiness, frustration, TOs, smirks, and referee attacks - with short stints of mental toughness. They had a good twenty game stretch with Malone in his second year and now one-fourth of one season is held out as evidence of mental toughness? By definition, mental toughness requires consistency over long periods of time, not a minor vacation from petulance, moodiness, woe-is-me self-pity, selfishness, and arrogance.

And it's the only time in the last five years where they put together a stretch of more than 5 games consistently showing that type of attitude.

How can you ignore that?

Just so happens to have been the final 20 games Malone coached. Hm. Weird.

 

[The Hammer]

I'm only going to say this once cause it's been bothering me, and then I'm not participating in any more Mike Malone related discussions because they go nowhere.

If you weren't on board with Malone when he was here than you'll never get it because it's about a lot more than just 15 games. I liked Malone the first time I heard him speak. Knew nothing about him but he was genuine, no nonsense. and it was obvious that he really loved coaching defense. I liked him even more when I saw him playing better man-to-man defense against prospects in pre-draft workouts than half the players on our team did during the season. This is before he coached a single game. The roster he inherited was a mess, it took some time to sort that out, but what was clear in the time he was here is that he earned the respect of his players. And for a brief moment in time we became a team that was actually surpassing expectations. We didn't just win more than we lost early that season, we were playing tough perennial playoff teams and blowing them out. We were playing the best team defense I've seen a Kings team play since 2002.

Apparently this is a difficult concept to understand because I'm still reading nonsense about there being some kind of cult dedicated to the memory of 15 regular season games. That's not it at all. The reason this is so hard to give up for some of us is because we spent nearly a decade watching a revolving door of supposed coaching prodigies say all the right things and then do all the wrong ones and finally we had a guy here who talked very little but practiced what he preached. There was even a brief moment where it looked like we were actually going to be the up and coming team the rest of the league was worried about and then it was over. And now we'll never know. And everything that's happened after that has only made it harder to swallow.

Some of the folks here who've defended management the hardest for the past 10 years have finally said enough is enough. I see a lot of new names stepping in to pick up that fight, which is their prerogative. Maybe they're lurkers who've just recently decided to join in. I'm not accusing anyone of anything. Just don't condescend to call those of us unreasonable who are fed up with the dysfunction and maybe even a little angry about it. Just because I don't want to explain in every post exactly why I liked Coach Malone doesn't mean it's something as arbitrary and reductive as a 15 game sample.

Am I unreasonably hard on George Karl because he represents everything our misguided front office openly pined for as they tried to justify firing a coach that our franchise player loved playing for? Probably. But if he had the team playing well I'd get over it. If his running junkball basketball actually had us in first place I'd have to show him respect, even though it's not how I think basketball should be played. But it's not working. It's not working and it's terrible to watch. Screw waiting a full season. The precedent has been set. Get him the hell out of here.

Is Vivek finally willing to admit he was wrong? I would hope so. Businessmen don't usually experience the level of success he has without a certain amount of common sense and survival instinct and the willingness to admit to themselves, if no one else, when they're wrong. We'll see.

Egg ****ing zackly.

 

[KingMilz]

Yeah, it's weird. I find myself agreeing with you and KingMiiz most of the time now. Strange times indeed.

Yeah I was thinking about that the other day in regards to you and Mac must be the climate or something.

 

[Albatros]

The team needed to be blown up before this season IMO. Said it at the time and I still think it. The best thing about not doing that has been getting to see a genuine offensive genius like Rondo do his thing in a Kings uniform, probably one of the last times we'll see a truly great player in purple for a very long time.

 

[funkykingston]

Funkykingston, I think yout second to last paragraph unfortunately is an accurate picture of where we are and what that means. Either Karl or Cuz has to go. It seems most want that to be Karl. If so, that leaves us with Cuz. That for me is worse than leaving s with Karl. I do believe that Karl's biggest problem is Cuz and it would be the same for any coach. So it is a tough problem either way. The only sliver of hope is to continue to see if they can work it out and make a better match and play scheme and better conditioning and commitment from Cuz. If that would happen our other problems- Gay, defense, turnovers, winning- would begin to fall into place. Maybe a sliver of hope.

There are legitimate reasons to think about trading Cousins but to me George Karl absolutely isn't one of them.

You don't reshape a roster to fit a coach who has one or two seasons left before retirement.

From the beginning Karl was a reaction to the idiocy of firing Malone and the disaster that was Corbin's stint. The thought was that Karl was the only guy who could salvage things because he had a track record of doing just that. And then the hope was that Karl could get this team into the playoffs this season, keep building momentum for a season or two more and then a new coach would be brought in to succeed Karl and hopefully step things up further. George Karl was never going to be THE guy, but he was hopefully going to be someone that could turn things around.

But for whatever reason it didn't happen. The Kings under Karl didn't finish the season strong. And this year they are on pace to be as bad or worse than last year which was an absolute dumpster fire of a season.

If you trade Cousins it can't be for Karl's benefit. Because that's another short term approach that won't pan out.

And if you trade Cousins you accept that you almost certainly won't get true market value for him. His baggage means he's a guy several teams won't even consider and his misuse under Karl and inability to lead his team to a single winning season hurts his trade value even more. Cousins for Arron Afflalo and Porzingis works under the cap but I don't think the Knicks even think about it before they say no. I don't see any potential all-star talents out there that teams would dangle for Cousins. It would end up being picks and trade pieces.

And Gay would have to go too otherwise you'd watch his value drop faster than his shooting percentages if he's the first option on offense.

To top it all off, if the Kings DID decide to use the nuclear option and blow things apart and tank this season those pick swaps from Philly would actually be pretty meaningful. No chance to get Ben Simmons and everybody else is as much of a gamble as lottery picks always are. We should know, we've watched the Kings blow a slew of them in recent years.

And you don't fire Karl to appease Cousins. The ONLY reason you fire Karl is if you legitimately think this team is capable of making the playoffs and Karl's coaching is what is holding them back. I hate what I see out there from GK's offensive and defensive schemes but I'm not convinced this team could compete or become a possible contender with Red Auerbach or Gregg Popovich at the helm.

There isn't a quick fix here.

 

[Albatros]

I don't think Karl even has this season left him let alone one or two more. And I mean no disrespect to the man, but I don't see an ounce of energy or passion in him at this point.

 

[The Hammer]

There are legitimate reasons to think about trading Cousins but to me George Karl absolutely isn't one of them.

You don't reshape a roster to fit a coach who has one or two seasons left before retirement.

From the beginning Karl was a reaction to the idiocy of firing Malone and the disaster that was Corbin's stint. The thought was that Karl was the only guy who could salvage things because he had a track record of doing just that. And then the hope was that Karl could get this team into the playoffs this season, keep building momentum for a season or two more and then a new coach would be brought in to succeed Karl and hopefully step things up further. George Karl was never going to be THE guy, but he was hopefully going to be someone that could turn things around.

But for whatever reason it didn't happen. The Kings under Karl didn't finish the season strong. And this year they are on pace to be as bad or worse than last year which was an absolute dumpster fire of a season.

If you trade Cousins it can't be for Karl's benefit. Because that's another short term approach that won't pan out.

And if you trade Cousins you accept that you almost certainly won't get true market value for him. His baggage means he's a guy several teams won't even consider and his misuse under Karl and inability to lead his team to a single winning season hurts his trade value even more. Cousins for Arron Afflalo and Porzingis works under the cap but I don't think the Knicks even think about it before they say no. I don't see any potential all-star talents out there that teams would dangle for Cousins. It would end up being picks and trade pieces.

And Gay would have to go too otherwise you'd watch his value drop faster than his shooting percentages if he's the first option on offense.

To top it all off, if the Kings DID decide to use the nuclear option and blow things apart and tank this season those pick swaps from Philly would actually be pretty meaningful. No chance to get Ben Simmons and everybody else is as much of a gamble as lottery picks always are. We should know, we've watched the Kings blow a slew of them in recent years.

And you don't fire Karl to appease Cousins. The ONLY reason you fire Karl is if you legitimately think this team is capable of making the playoffs and Karl's coaching is what is holding them back. I hate what I see out there from GK's offensive and defensive schemes but I'm not convinced this team could compete or become a possible contender with Red Auerbach or Gregg Popovich at the helm.

There isn't a quick fix here.

Well written and thoughtful post, but I disagree with you towards the end.

See, I think this team absolutely is capable of a playoff push with a good coach. In fact, any decent coach. What this team tends to do is look for a savior, be it a coach or whatever. But we don't need one. Aside from Malone, we've not had a string of mediocre coaches. We've had a string of absolutely inept coaches who've never gone on to coach in the NBA again. Think about that. Mussleman, Theus, Westphal, Corbin...

All we need, is simply an NBA caliber coach. You might be thinking, well, George Karl isn't? And I would say, no, not anymore. And that is simply by virtue of his inability to coach to the talent. Vlade clearly had a vision when he signed all those players, and it's pretty clear it's not the junkball version that Karl has insisted upon.

We need a young, hungry, smart, non-ideological, just basic coach. We don't need a savior. We have the talent. Not potential talent. We have the seasoned, veteran talent. Just need a coach who's competent and isn't coming in with a serious inability to coach TO that talent. And this was always the danger with Karl. It's what a lot of us warned against from the get go. We knew Karl had to let go of his agenda. There were reports he had begun to "mellow", or that he was turning over more of the coaching duties to his top assistants. Well, turns out that hasn't been the case. "Mellowing" and "turning things over" looks like it's code for semi-retired and/or losing the team to the point where they're not connecting with you.

 

[pshn80]

Well written and thoughtful post, but I disagree with you towards the end.

See, I think this team absolutely is capable of a playoff push with a good coach. In fact, any decent coach. What this team tends to do is look for a savior, be it a coach or whatever. But we don't need one. Aside from Malone, we've not had a string of mediocre coaches. We've had a string of absolutely inept coaches who've never gone on to coach in the NBA again. Think about that. Mussleman, Theus, Westphal, Corbin...

All we need, is simply an NBA caliber coach. You might be thinking, well, George Karl isn't? And I would say, no, not anymore. And that is simply by virtue of his inability to coach to the talent. Vlade clearly had a vision when he signed all those players, and it's pretty clear it's not the junkball version that Karl has insisted upon.

We need a young, hungry, smart, non-ideological, just basic coach. We don't need a savior. We have the talent. Not potential talent. We have the seasoned, veteran talent. Just need a coach who's competent and isn't coming in with a serious inability to coach TO that talent. And this was always the danger with Karl. It's what a lot of us warned against from the get go. We knew Karl had to let go of his agenda. There were reports he had begun to "mellow", or that he was turning over more of the coaching duties to his top assistants. Well, turns out that hasn't been the case. "Mellowing" and "turning things over" looks like it's code for semi-retired and/or losing the team to the point where they're not connecting with you.

You have a clear picture of Karl and the team. Get rid of Karl and a modestly decent coach will do the trick. I wish I had your confidence in Cuz but I don't yet. That's why I push for the slim chance of staus quo and hoping Cuz can pull himself up by his bootstraps and begin to play as he has before, first step, getting himself in shape to do it. Slim but it's better than getting rid of Karl or Cuz right now.

 

[ParniValjak]

This post really sums it up for a lot of us. Malone had the players believing in the defensive scheme because it worked. That little era of defensive spark was incredible. Defense is sustainable and that group was getting it done.

On top of that, our current roster arguably has better defenders on it than the one Malone had playing solid defense. This team certainly has much more depth.

Our problem in Malone's last season here was the lack of depth! Our starters statictically were the best defensive starting 5 in the league and they would build the lead against team. Then comes in the bench full of scrubbers and we lose the lead. This team has good players, good depth and solid defenders at every position. I have no doubt that this team, with Malone at the helm would have been playing over .500 ball on the season right now and would be a good defensive team.

Karl has showed no interest in teaching solid defense. He has his crappy switching scheme that does not work and never will with this team. Karl is more interested in juicing up the offense. His comments about not having defensive players is a hogwash. WCS was getting yanked all the time and was getting limited minutes for him. When teams neede stop, he would get his all offense team out these hoping to out run and out gun the opponents. Karl was a very good coach in his career but like all the old coaches who did not experience the ultimate sucess, they lose their mind toward the end of their career because they thing they have figured out a way and keep on persisting even when its obvious to everyone that it is not working.

His offense would have worked in Denver with his roster at the time and the advantages of playing at a high altitude. That crap wouldn't work for over half the teams out there. It's time for him to reconsider his approach and if he is not willing to do so, time to move on from this insane, washed up coach!

 

[206Fan]

I honestly think our first step is to wrap-up Rondo with an extension and trade Collison. Collison won't accept limited minutes and the Rondo/Collison combo is TERRIBLE. They DO NOT WORK together! It's infuriating! Bledsoe and Knight don't work together. Clarkson and Russell don't work together. Bledsoe and Dragic didn't work together. Lawson and Miller didn't work together. It's just awful. It doesn't work. I don't understand why anyone would think it would work. Collison can't shoot for crap, and Rondo CERTAINLY can't shoot for crap. They're both worthless off the ball. Add Rudy Gay who is also worthless off the ball to Cousins and you leave ONE guy on the floor that can play without the ball in his hands (Cassipi or Marco). It's just absurd how anyone thinks this would work.

Let's put it this way. It creates ZERO mismatches offensively, and creates a TON of mismatches defensively. There's just no benefit. It hurts my brain just thinking about it. Oh, and while we ship off Collison lets get rid of Karl too. Happy New Year everyone.

I'm sorry, but hell no. If Vlade gives Rondo a contract extension right now, I'm done with the Kings. Hell, I'll become a Bighorns fan.

That would be such a terrible move..

*Edit, I'm not sure we can even give Rondo an extension right now either.

 

[The Hammer]

I'm sorry, but hell no. If Vlade gives Rondo a contract extension right now, I'm done with the Kings. Hell, I'll become a Bighorns fan.

That would be such a terrible move..

*Edit, I'm not sure we can even give Rondo an extension right now either.

The guy leads the league in assists... and it's still not enough for you.

Ok. Makes sense.

 

[206Fan]

The guy leads the league in assists... and it's still not enough for you.

Ok. Makes sense.

Because the NBA is all about assists? He's turning 30 soon, his game is declining, and he no longer plays defense. He's only worthy of an extension for Cousins.. Let's be honest, Rondo would probably only start on 3-4 teams right now. Knicks, Sixers, Lakers, and maybe the Jazz because of injuries. He's not exactly tearing up the league...maybe if he played defense.

 

[dude12]

It's time for him to reconsider his approach and if he is not willing to do so, time to move on from this insane, washed up coach!

Isn't this really Vlade's dilemma or choices he has to be contemplating? Either Karl steps up and coaches to the strengths of his roster or Vlade trades Cuz and Gay and whomever to give Karl his "players". If Karl isn't willing to do the former, and he's not, then Karl has to go.

Give this roster a coach who will coach to Cuz and Gays strengths, values defense as a priority and then see what happens.

 

[The Hammer]

Because the NBA is all about assists? He's turning 30 soon, his game is declining, and he no longer plays defense. He's only worthy of an extension for Cousins.. Let's be honest, Rondo would probably only start on 3-4 teams right now. Knicks, Sixers, Lakers, and maybe the Jazz because of injuries. He's not exactly tearing up the league...maybe if he played defense.

It's a lot about assists, yes, and for guards, yeah, that's kind of a major thing. Kind of like rebounding is for bigs. Or scoring is for first and second options. Assists, just so you are aware, lead directly to points, and points, turns out, IS what the NBA is all about. So assists are right up there with being what the NBA is, actually, "all about".

Starting on 3-4 teams?

His defense isn't what it used to be, but it's not that bad.

The dude pushes for a triple double more than any guard in the league right now. But Rondo is not the type of player that will just play anywhere. He's extremely self-determining in his career. Frankly, I think more players should be. The guy is one of the smartest players in the league. IF he was inclined to play for any number of teams and had a coach that would not get in the way of his floor generalship, he would be starting on 20 of the teams in the league.

 

[King Baller]

In my opinion A defensive minded coach is needed. If the Kings play good defense everything thing else should come easier. At this point I would be happy with a Coach who would stress defense and rebounding. A Coach who would play WCS and just generally play the defensive players the Kings do have.

I also would like to see a more traditional approach to the lineup and style of play. The Kings have Cousins and Gay to pound the ball inside and now they have some good 3 point shooters along with a deep bench.

This should not be the rocket science and I would think a change of coaches is what is needed.

 

[King Baller]

PS - I'm sick of the dribble drive offense.

 

[sdballer]

It's a lot about assists, yes, and for guards, yeah, that's kind of a major thing. Kind of like rebounding is for bigs. Or scoring is for first and second options. Assists, just so you are aware, lead directly to points, and points, turns out, IS what the NBA is all about. So assists are right up there with being what the NBA is, actually, "all about".

Starting on 3-4 teams?

His defense isn't what it used to be, but it's not that bad.

The dude pushes for a triple double more than any guard in the league right now. But Rondo is not the type of player that will just play anywhere. He's extremely self-determining in his career. Frankly, I think more players should be. The guy is one of the smartest players in the league. IF he was inclined to play for any number of teams and had a coach that would not get in the way of his floor generalship, he would be starting on 20 of the teams in the league.

I think you are overrating him more than a little. His defense is far below average and there are a good number of teams that wouldn't start him specifically because he needs every bit of offense to run through him and his shooting, while improved, makes pairings a challenge.

 

[Amit149]

In my opinion A defensive minded coach is needed. If the Kings play good defense everything thing else should come easier. At this point I would be happy with a Coach who would stress defense and rebounding. A Coach who would play WCS and just generally play the defensive players the Kings do have.

I also would like to see a more traditional approach to the lineup and style of play. The Kings have Cousins and Gay to pound the ball inside and now they have some good 3 point shooters along with a deep bench.

This should not be the rocket science and I would think a change of coaches is what is needed.

I don't think that you can make a great defensive team out of this roster (of course there is a lot that can be improved).

Rondo is a bad defender, and DC is not working defensively with him.
Ben is arguably our best perimeter defender and he is average at best, Marco is flat out bad.
Rudy is a bad defender at the 3, and though Omri is playing with a lot of heart and hustle he is far from a lockdown defender.
WCS is a good (potentially great) defender but he is a rookie and him and Kosta don't work together.
Cousins could be a very good defender but has flaws (that are being discussed all over this forum) and Kosta is potentially a good defender but since he doesn't really work next to Cousins or WCS he doesn't make a difference.

I don't think you can turn this roster with the lack of perimeter defenders into a top-10 defensive team.

 

[KingMilz]

It's a lot about assists, yes, and for guards, yeah, that's kind of a major thing. Kind of like rebounding is for bigs. Or scoring is for first and second options. Assists, just so you are aware, lead directly to points, and points, turns out, IS what the NBA is all about. So assists are right up there with being what the NBA is, actually, "all about".

Starting on 3-4 teams?

His defense isn't what it used to be, but it's not that bad.

The dude pushes for a triple double more than any guard in the league right now. But Rondo is not the type of player that will just play anywhere. He's extremely self-determining in his career. Frankly, I think more players should be. The guy is one of the smartest players in the league. IF he was inclined to play for any number of teams and had a coach that would not get in the way of his floor generalship, he would be starting on 20 of the teams in the league.

There is no proof Rondo is even the best PG on the team and for the past two seasons compared to DC he has not been and he's only capable of playing one way and that's dominating the ball.

If Darren got the same type of freedom and did nothing but try get assist s his numbers would look great as well. Darren is a better shooter, scorer and defender than current Rondo. Maybe we are playing the wrong guy out of position, Rondo did the same thing to Monta last season.

 

[VF21]

I'm sorry, but hell no. If Vlade gives Rondo a contract extension right now, I'm done with the Kings. Hell, I'll become a Bighorns fan.

That would be such a terrible move..

*Edit, I'm not sure we can even give Rondo an extension right now either.

He's on a one-year contract that expires at the end of the season. It cannot be extended and his contract can not be renegotiated before it ends.

 

[k_dubb90]

It's a lot about assists, yes, and for guards, yeah, that's kind of a major thing. Kind of like rebounding is for bigs. Or scoring is for first and second options. Assists, just so you are aware, lead directly to points, and points, turns out, IS what the NBA is all about. So assists are right up there with being what the NBA is, actually, "all about".

Starting on 3-4 teams?

His defense isn't what it used to be, but it's not that bad.

The dude pushes for a triple double more than any guard in the league right now. But Rondo is not the type of player that will just play anywhere. He's extremely self-determining in his career. Frankly, I think more players should be. The guy is one of the smartest players in the league. IF he was inclined to play for any number of teams and had a coach that would not get in the way of his floor generalship, he would be starting on 20 of the teams in the league.

A lot about assists? I think the raptors are damn near dead last in the league in assists and they're playing very good basketball and winning games

 

[The Hammer]

A lot about assists? I think the raptors are damn near dead last in the league in assists and they're playing very good basketball and winning games

I think you should research a bit about logical fallacies. If A then B, if B then C, it does not follow that if A then always C, or if C then always A and B. And it does not reduce the effectiveness of A in causing C.

 

[k_dubb90]

I think you should research a bit about logical fallacies. If A then B, if B then C, it does not follow that if A then always C, or if C then always A and B. And it does not reduce the effectiveness of A in causing C.

Thanks for the lesson nobody asked for it's greatly appreciated

 

[Im Still Ballin]

Not that far away from a team environment for sustained success. Just press the button Vlade. Cut the cancer out.

 

[ParniValjak]

I don't think that you can make a great defensive team out of this roster (of course there is a lot that can be improved).

Rondo is a bad defender, and DC is not working defensively with him.
Ben is arguably our best perimeter defender and he is average at best, Marco is flat out bad.
Rudy is a bad defender at the 3, and though Omri is playing with a lot of heart and hustle he is far from a lockdown defender.
WCS is a good (potentially great) defender but he is a rookie and him and Kosta don't work together.
Cousins could be a very good defender but has flaws (that are being discussed all over this forum) and Kosta is potentially a good defender but since he doesn't really work next to Cousins or WCS he doesn't make a difference.

I don't think you can turn this roster with the lack of perimeter defenders into a top-10 defensive team.

What a very selective analysis. It would be great to have great individual defenders but not a lot of teams have those. Good defensive teams are good because they have good defensive schemes where they defend as a team. Again I go back to Malone's starting five last year and there are no big defensive names there.

Collison in Malone's scheme was a lot better defender than he is now. McLemore again was a better defender under Malone's tutelage. Rudy Gay was infinitely better defensively. JT was a good defender and Cousins was and still is a good defender.

WCS is a defensive stud in the making and at least on par with JT.

Bottom line is that this team, as it stands now should be a lot better team defensively than Malone's team from last year because we have a lot more good defenders now than we did last year. We had the best defensive starting 5 in the entire league and there was not an elite defender amongst them. Our issue was the lack of depth which Vlade addressed in the off-season.

This roster, as it is now, would be a very good defensive team with a coach than preches defense and has a scheme to get these guys defending as a team.

Before the start of last season, during the training camp, all we heard from the players and the coaches was how we were practicing how to defend and how defense was what we were working on the most. During Karl's first training camp all we heard was how we were practicing offense and how we are even doing so with a reduced shot clock. There in lies the problem. It's not the players on the roster, it is the laughable defensive scheme that Karl has implemented that will never work. Whenever we need a stop in the game, he sends out the offensive team out there trying to outscore the opponents. He even mentioned yesterday that he is thinking of moving Marco into the starting line up despite the team breaking down defensively constantly. Therein lies our biggest problem. Instead of getting these guys practicing defense, making adjustments to his defensive scheme, he is considering brining in arguably our worst defender into the starting line up!

And then people say that Karl is not the problem. No wonder he lost the team with that crap because he is losing anyone that knows anything about basketball.