Amick: Kings find themselves at another turning point
- Thread starter Double-K
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I
Im Still Ballin
Guest
Malone was good for 10 games
It just so happens it was at the start of the season
It just so happens it was at the start of the season
King Baller
All-Star
Read my Signature Brother.
That's revisionist history. Malone's first year was full of bad defense, no hustle etc. IT was often referred to by many here as the only one who played with heart all the time.
King Baller
All-Star
In Denver, not when he was in Sacto.
The Hammer
All-Star
IT played with "heart" because he was sucking the heart out of everybody else on the team, by way of the ball.
A few roster tweaks and shipping out IT, Malone had a GREAT morale going. Keep in mind the culture around here at the time was horrible, full of players who knew their career was either coming to a close, or not in Sac for the long term. And there was coaching debacle upon coaching debacle. It took time for Malone to change things, but he did. Karl in a sense benefitted from that, and had even better, more mature players, and higher morale going into the season. Real, actual vets, with playoff and even championship pedigree... he's managed to squander that in a matter of months. The trend on Malone was up, and towards cohesion and morale. The trend on Karl is down, and towards low morale.
The Hammer
All-Star
Malone preached defense above all else. And he held them accountable, time after time, without being an ass, but with relentless commitment. Issue with him with the offense was that he was tinkering with a few systems. He eventually stopped that, and was building an offense centered around, guess what, our best player.
J
JoseCousins
Guest
At this point look to the future. I'd advocate cleaning house trade cuz and Rudy. Hire a different coach. Fresh team for the new arena maybe with a couple youngsters to watch jump out the gym. Unfortunately we won't be in the Ben Simmons sweepstakes thanks to Vlade.
I
Im Still Ballin
Guest
I'm trying to find the article but I do remember Malone being quoted as saying he wanted to up the tempo
King Baller
All-Star
The last comment I recall is in my signature.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
This was the heart of the debate. There was no questioning his athleticism except on draft day for some reason. I didn't think he fit and he still wouldn't although Karl might think differently.
People might forget but Malone had some real problems like when to call a time out. I think most of us were willing to put up with his mistakes as the overall feel around the team was great. BTW, this kinda proves that a coaching change could make a world of difference.
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He did ask your first question above and several others just as tough. He was not easing up on his tough questions. He did a god job but you know how such questions are answered. Questions were good, answers were as expected. It was an interesting interview.
We need to see something change for the better in the way our team plays.
We cannot wrap up Rondo with an extension. He's here on a one-year contract and is an unrestricted free agent at the end of the year.
SacKings384
Starter
He can sign a new contract now, no,?
SacKings384
Starter
Oh. I didn't know that.
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
ask vivek that
Well I'm in agreement with the IT thing because I did not like having him here. My point is that we simply were not this team that played hard every night and was a super good defensive team or whatever in the bulk of Malone's time here. We didn't win much, we didn't play very hard, and our defense was just as bad. Except for a stretch of maybe 20 games after a full season.
The whole "trend on Karl is down" is only because there were high expectations going into this season that have not been met, alongside the whole why was Malone fired etc. It's not the winning vets that are feeling lost in the system by the way, it's Cousins and maybe Gay. Rondo has excelled, Casspi has excelled. Karl HAS made adjustments which the few here hellbent on criticizing him fail to recognize.
But the in-thing to do now is to just bash on Karl and worship Malone, so what do I know.
In a way, glad IT is gone, so I don't have to puke reading comments like the above. The vitrol towards IT is seriously one of the oddest "group thinks" around here. Meanwhile, the "heartless" IT is the #1 option for a good Boston team that's going to be in the playoffs. While we fight for 30 wins again.
How did Karl benefit from the almighty Malone? He has an entirely new roster! But no, since he's not Malone, he doesn't get afforded the same luxury of having a year to work through the team.
Honestly just sick of the 15-game Malone stretch. People use it as gospel, when the sample of games wasn't nearly large enough to see if we could keep it up, especially when Boogie went down, and I KNOW the FT rate we were shooting at wasn't sustainable, since we were on pace for being the greatest team in NBA history at getting to the line.
K
KingMilz
Guest
Didn't the GOAT 9-6 coach want to keep the 'heartless' IT and not extend Rudy which both right now look like the correct moves.
IT has really impressed me in Boston, was not a fan of his at the time but he's changed my mind.
It's been a few seaosns but it seems we're finally in agreement over something
Siranthony
Starter
IT had talent coming out of his ears. I could see it plain as day. I never got the brain trust here who hated him because he was too small and ball dominant. The guy played his ass off and I knew he would be good. But they threw him out like so much trash. they didn't even try to get anything for him. I also could see Cousins would be good possibly great. Unfortunately he is high maintenance and too difficult to work with. He hasn't changed all that much in five years.
I'm only going to say this once cause it's been bothering me, and then I'm not participating in any more Mike Malone related discussions because they go nowhere.
If you weren't on board with Malone when he was here than you'll never get it because it's about a lot more than just 15 games. I liked Malone the first time I heard him speak. Knew nothing about him but he was genuine, no nonsense. and it was obvious that he really loved coaching defense. I liked him even more when I saw him playing better man-to-man defense against prospects in pre-draft workouts than half the players on our team did during the season. This is before he coached a single game. The roster he inherited was a mess, it took some time to sort that out, but what was clear in the time he was here is that he earned the respect of his players. And for a brief moment in time we became a team that was actually surpassing expectations. We didn't just win more than we lost early that season, we were playing tough perennial playoff teams and blowing them out. We were playing the best team defense I've seen a Kings team play since 2002.
Apparently this is a difficult concept to understand because I'm still reading nonsense about there being some kind of cult dedicated to the memory of 15 regular season games. That's not it at all. The reason this is so hard to give up for some of us is because we spent nearly a decade watching a revolving door of supposed coaching prodigies say all the right things and then do all the wrong ones and finally we had a guy here who talked very little but practiced what he preached. There was even a brief moment where it looked like we were actually going to be the up and coming team the rest of the league was worried about and then it was over. And now we'll never know. And everything that's happened after that has only made it harder to swallow.
Some of the folks here who've defended management the hardest for the past 10 years have finally said enough is enough. I see a lot of new names stepping in to pick up that fight, which is their prerogative. Maybe they're lurkers who've just recently decided to join in. I'm not accusing anyone of anything. Just don't condescend to call those of us unreasonable who are fed up with the dysfunction and maybe even a little angry about it. Just because I don't want to explain in every post exactly why I liked Coach Malone doesn't mean it's something as arbitrary and reductive as a 15 game sample.
Am I unreasonably hard on George Karl because he represents everything our misguided front office openly pined for as they tried to justify firing a coach that our franchise player loved playing for? Probably. But if he had the team playing well I'd get over it. If his running junkball basketball actually had us in first place I'd have to show him respect, even though it's not how I think basketball should be played. But it's not working. It's not working and it's terrible to watch. Screw waiting a full season. The precedent has been set. Get him the hell out of here.
Is Vivek finally willing to admit he was wrong? I would hope so. Businessmen don't usually experience the level of success he has without a certain amount of common sense and survival instinct and the willingness to admit to themselves, if no one else, when they're wrong. We'll see.
If you weren't on board with Malone when he was here than you'll never get it because it's about a lot more than just 15 games. I liked Malone the first time I heard him speak. Knew nothing about him but he was genuine, no nonsense. and it was obvious that he really loved coaching defense. I liked him even more when I saw him playing better man-to-man defense against prospects in pre-draft workouts than half the players on our team did during the season. This is before he coached a single game. The roster he inherited was a mess, it took some time to sort that out, but what was clear in the time he was here is that he earned the respect of his players. And for a brief moment in time we became a team that was actually surpassing expectations. We didn't just win more than we lost early that season, we were playing tough perennial playoff teams and blowing them out. We were playing the best team defense I've seen a Kings team play since 2002.
Apparently this is a difficult concept to understand because I'm still reading nonsense about there being some kind of cult dedicated to the memory of 15 regular season games. That's not it at all. The reason this is so hard to give up for some of us is because we spent nearly a decade watching a revolving door of supposed coaching prodigies say all the right things and then do all the wrong ones and finally we had a guy here who talked very little but practiced what he preached. There was even a brief moment where it looked like we were actually going to be the up and coming team the rest of the league was worried about and then it was over. And now we'll never know. And everything that's happened after that has only made it harder to swallow.
Some of the folks here who've defended management the hardest for the past 10 years have finally said enough is enough. I see a lot of new names stepping in to pick up that fight, which is their prerogative. Maybe they're lurkers who've just recently decided to join in. I'm not accusing anyone of anything. Just don't condescend to call those of us unreasonable who are fed up with the dysfunction and maybe even a little angry about it. Just because I don't want to explain in every post exactly why I liked Coach Malone doesn't mean it's something as arbitrary and reductive as a 15 game sample.
Am I unreasonably hard on George Karl because he represents everything our misguided front office openly pined for as they tried to justify firing a coach that our franchise player loved playing for? Probably. But if he had the team playing well I'd get over it. If his running junkball basketball actually had us in first place I'd have to show him respect, even though it's not how I think basketball should be played. But it's not working. It's not working and it's terrible to watch. Screw waiting a full season. The precedent has been set. Get him the hell out of here.
Is Vivek finally willing to admit he was wrong? I would hope so. Businessmen don't usually experience the level of success he has without a certain amount of common sense and survival instinct and the willingness to admit to themselves, if no one else, when they're wrong. We'll see.
whozit
Starter
I loved your post. I do have to wonder that because of the rash moves of the past if it hasn't caused a paralysis of sorts, afraid to make the next mistake. If it goes right, Divac gets the credit. If it goes wrong, it's Vivek's impatience again and he gets the blame.
King Baller
All-Star
This post really sums it up for a lot of us. Malone had the players believing in the defensive scheme because it worked. That little era of defensive spark was incredible. Defense is sustainable and that group was getting it done.
That tends to happen when you rely on 360 degree turns when you're lost
I liked Malone, and I think it was a big mistake to fire him- mostly because it seemed like he had a good relationship with Cousins.
I never thought he was a great coach (I can name on one hand the guys I put in that category) but he was decent (he had his issues which a lot of people complained about at the time).
But I do think that he is being glorified here, and it is mostly about those 15 games (and also the way it ended).
Malone is now the coach of the Denver Nuggets- which is one of only 4 teams who's defense is worse than ours.
His first season we had one of the worst defenses in the league (23th).
And even during that famous 9-6 run- our defense was nothing more than average (15th).
What helped us was that we led the league in FT attempts, and enjoyed a very low opponent 3pt percent- both are arguably unsustainable since the FT rate was far higher than normal, and research showed that the measure of a good 3pt defending team is in the number of attempts and not 3pt% (especially since we are talking about a short span- and in the year before under Malone we were amongst the worst at 3pt%) and we were one of the worst at the number of attempts we allowed from 3 (26th).
So there is a lot of people who sing his praises a little too much, but I agree that the mistake of firing him and alienating Cuz in the process is something that we are still paying for.
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