Am I the only one who feels like the Kings are even weaker now?

TheJewishKing

TheJewishKing

G-League
I admit I have not followed much about the Kings lately, or about the NBA in general, and I haven't been watching the Sacramento Kings fan in a consecutive manner as I used to do before, mostly since I have joined the army, but I have this feeling that the current Kings roster is weaker than the previous roster of last year.

I mean we obviously have gone weaker and lost strength in the point guard spot, losing Rajon Rondo who averaged a double-double with us last season is a huge disadvantage for us, as much as I love Darren Collison I reckon that he is still not due to lead an NBA team as a starting player, we also lost Seth Curry which can be very explosive of the bench and he displayed it as the season was winding down....
We signed Ty Lawson which in my opinion was once a very decent player, but probably not anymore, wasn't able to prove himself in Houston and Indiana, I feel like he has passed his prime.

I have the same feeling towards players like Matt Barnes (which I personally dislike due to his aggressive manner on and off the court) and Aaron Aflalo, I reckon that they are both have passed their prime as well, maybe they both can add some experience to the squad but I am not sure how they are going to contribute really....

I am not going to write much about Malachi, Labbissiere and Papagiannis because as I have mentioned before in this thread I haven't been following the Kings moves in this offseason...

Just wanted to share my thoughts and see if there are people feeling the way I feel although I hope I am concerned for no reason...
 
I think you can argue that we're weaker for losing Rondo (but plenty of smart people, Aaron Bruski for one, were saying all along that we're better off without him). There was no pick-up that "makes up" for the loss or Rondo I agree with that. I am a Rondo fan and sorry we didn't re-sign him.

However, the very idea that it was a big deal to lose Seth Curry just grinds on me then and now. imo he isn't important. So many people are hanging their hat on George Karl's statement that "he might be our best on-ball defender" - the same people who would disregard Karl's judgement and character in every other aspect by the way. But I took that Karl statement as a very backward compliment - like he was really calling out the other guys saying "you're not even as good as the little rook".

I don't bet anymore... but I'll be astonished if Seth is a key contributor to the Mavs. Don't hate him but he has never proved he's more than an end-of-bencher, no a few spurts in late season garbage time don't prove it. Nobody has explained to me why, if he's such a commodity, we couldn't fetch anything in trade for him and why none of the other 28 teams besides Dallas and Sacramento outbid the $3M?? Mourning of the loss of Seth Curry was a great exaggeration imo.

But are we worse off? Possible right now. Loss of Rondo netted against the pickup of a new coaching staff and a bigger tougher bench = close. Seems very unlikely any of the draft day acquisitions make any difference this year.

I really liked our draft, and with Bogdan on the way over after this season, and the kids in the pipeline I am very optimistic Kings fan right now and can't wait to start the process. The tough vets are a nice touch and I think will make the team gritty and watchable. Ty Lawson is a total dice roll and I don't feel any poorer for it if he just sucks and gets cut fast... and if he works out - yay!
 
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Okay, I'll bite.
I think you can make an argument that position by position we are about as strong as we looked on paper last year. But last year we sucked as a team, partly due to a past-his-prime coach and partly due to certain underperforming players. Vivek's dream of playing 4 on 5 was on display for much of the season!
This season it is more likely that we will play as a team, and that should improve out standing (both in terms of wins and respect). That's partly due to the personnel we have this year and the new coaching staff. Some will mention the new arena, but I don't think Karl would have won a single game more had last year's team been playing at the Golden1 Center.
 
Beyond this coming year, we're looking much better than we were a year ago. And that's Vlade's work. We've got at least 3 rookies to watch them grow this year, and Bogdan to watch for next year. So whatever happens this year in terms of wins, we've at least got a good mix of veterans and young prospects coming thru the pipeline to help build an even better future.
 
Well if you do it by position:
Center: Same. Still Boogie and Koufos.
Pf: Probably slightly better this year. Willie is hopefully better than last year, we also added Tolliver and Skal for depth + it will help not to play Rudy there.
SF: Slightly better depth this year because Barnes > Butler
SG: Better this year because Afflalo, Temple, Ben > Ben, Belinelli, Curry
PG: Better, deeper last year. Collisons suspension really hurts.
Coach: Joerger >>> Karl
Overall I would say were about the same talent wise. But keep in mind that last years talent level was better than 33 wins would indicate. If you also add Joerger I think it is reasonable to hope for a .500 season.
 
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The team is deeper at the bottom, and the coaching might be better. But unless Afflalo has a rebirth on defense, Ben wises up, and Lawson finds inner peace, 500 will be a struggle.
 
Forgot to take coach Joerger and the Golden 1 center under consideration, it can totally give us a different impact for this season...

But still I don't think that our squad is better than last season's I don't know why, but I can't see where Barnes can add something that we are missing while having both Casspi and Gay, Afflalo is obviously better than Belinelli, but I don't know if he is going to fit right with the squad, I actually fear that there are too many ball hoggers on this current Kings team.

As for the PF spot, a very problematic spot for us, an unexperienced rookie and a sophomore are the ones filling the roles, you can't really trust on that, I mean Willie is a good defender but he is not a very talented or gifted offensive player, we'll need to see how it works out for us.

I would really love to read what are the strong suits and the weakness points of our new rookies and how do you think they will mix in our team in this current season, will they have a crucial role on the team or not so much...
 
We are a deeper team with a better coach, easy theory to establish until we win more games this next season. I like this new team more than last year. If Gay gets traded I will re-evaluate my opinion.
 
TheJewishKing said:
I admit I have not followed much about the Kings lately, or about the NBA in general, and I haven't been watching the Sacramento Kings fan in a consecutive manner as I used to do before, mostly since I have joined the army, but I have this feeling that the current Kings roster is weaker than the previous roster of last year.

I mean we obviously have gone weaker and lost strength in the point guard spot, losing Rajon Rondo who averaged a double-double with us last season is a huge disadvantage for us, as much as I love Darren Collison I reckon that he is still not due to lead an NBA team as a starting player, we also lost Seth Curry which can be very explosive of the bench and he displayed it as the season was winding down....
We signed Ty Lawson which in my opinion was once a very decent player, but probably not anymore, wasn't able to prove himself in Houston and Indiana, I feel like he has passed his prime.

I have the same feeling towards players like Matt Barnes (which I personally dislike due to his aggressive manner on and off the court) and Aaron Aflalo, I reckon that they are both have passed their prime as well, maybe they both can add some experience to the squad but I am not sure how they are going to contribute really....

I am not going to write much about Malachi, Labbissiere and Papagiannis because as I have mentioned before in this thread I haven't been following the Kings moves in this offseason...

Just wanted to share my thoughts and see if there are people feeling the way I feel although I hope I am concerned for no reason...
Click to expand...
We will not be weaker but we sure aren't better. We added average rookies and below average free agents. Every time I post that I get blasted but I am not sure how someone can say Tolliver, Temple, and Barnes are good players. Affalo is starting to be over the hill. I get it better culture blah blah blah but at the end of the day you need talent, which those guys aren't. Malachi could be good in a couple of years, Skal the same, and Papa doubtful.
 
We've had the worst SG rotation in the NBA the last few years, From Thornton to Ben, somehow Marco caught the bug too. It's nearly historically bad. You should see a massive improvement in competence starting and off the bench.

We've got more depth at the 3-4 with Barnes and Tolliver options. You've got a tough/nasty die hard veteran you can use or for a stretch 4 a guy who can nail a shot reliably.

I've never understood peoples fascination with bench guys who've never done anything in their careers, (Seth Curry). Reminds me of people who fall in love on their first dates. Did we lose Mitch or something?

Where Rondo will hurt if you ask me is with WCS, I'm not sure Collison will be able to find him as well. Lawson probably would be able to similar to how he worked with Faried however, but he's a better fit off the bench.

Coaching upgrade.

I'm not sure how we are worse considering everything.

If Collison gets suspended however, there is risk we struggle and whatever hole we get in may psychologically really bring us down. Some risk there.
 
I really think we underachieved greatly last season so, to me, it is going to be at least as good a team if not better.

I have nothing to back it up, but just changing coaches to Joerger feels like it will have a tremendous impact on our wins. Our star player and coach starting out on the wrong foot had to have affected everyone in that locker room. No one enjoys coming to work in a tense, drama filled environment and performance will suffer.

If the team can buy into a grind it out, work hard on defense mentality along with most of the new additions better suited for such an identity, I think we will improve our record over last seasons by more than a little.
 
Losing Rondo is very much addition by subtraction. His counting stats were pretty, but he dominated the ball, whoever played SG and PF with Rudy Cuz and himself, to fight for scraps. People also don't want to admit he was one of the worst defensive players in the league last season. Many of our defensive problems started with his incredibly lazy effort.

So if we accept that premise, we're going to be a lot better this year. Major coaching and depth upgrade. The problem is, this roster feels like it's capped out at 42 wins, which likely doesn't get us into the playoffs. And then we're facing Boogie expiring year missing the playoffs once again.
 
Rondo's defense and Karl's toxic bull**** heavily outweighs every move our team made this off season...

This team is light years better than last year's roster. Not to mention the energy of the G1C opening up.
 
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We're weaker for a few reasons:

- Not replacing Rondo's talent at PG will hurt, no matter how you shake it. We all know his weaknesses, but his strengths will be missed.
- Our top wing and #2 scorer is still Rudy Gay. Rudy isn't an efficient enough scorer to be your #2, he isn't great from 3P and doesn't take enough shots there to space around Cuz, his defense is iffy as is his passing. We need a serious upgrade here to be a contender.
- We made the kind of additions that perennial playoff teams make in the offseason: fix your bench with roleplayers and character guys. I think our signings were sensible and reasonable, but won't push the needle forward in the W-L column. Afflalo is a decent stopgap, but shouldn't be a starter at this stage of his career. I do not expect our rookies to make substantial contributions in year one, but I love a good surprise.
- Meanwhile, other teams in the West are set to improve over last year, namely, Utah, Denver and Minnesota. The other playoff teams in the West will still be contenders, albeit Dallas (age), Memphis (age) and Houston (D'Antoni) may be ones to watch re: decline.

However, I believe Dave Joerger will do a great job getting the most out of this roster, especially on defense. I expect more improvement from Big Cuz (who has added a wrinkle to his game every year and looks to be in better shape). I boldly think Ty Lawson will surprise some people as a solid backup PG, getting back some of his mojo on a bounce-back year. I expect the energy, excitement and optimism to be fantastic in the sparkly new G1C.

But given our lack of improvement where we need it - our main starters - I don't see us cracking 40 wins nor the playoffs this season with the roster as it stands today.*

*but I will more than happily eat my words come late April 2017!
 
weaker at the PG position, yeah I can see that. Weaker as in the entire team? lots of role players have been brought in with defensive mindsets, the team got a defensive head coach...they might surprise us and win 35 games, that's their ceiling IMO.
 
The analytics say we're better off with Collison starting than Rondo. And certainly if Joerger's goals are to improve the defense and move the ball more then Rondo was a square peg in a round hole anyway.

PG depth is obviously a concern though. Can Lawson provide what Collison did off the bench last year?

Well, if we ignore last season and hope for a revival of the Lawson of two seasons back then the answer is that per 36 you see a guy that put up a similar number of shots but had worse percentages across the board. On the upside though, Lawson was a MUCH better playmaker.

So in the best case scenario you have a low usage, dependable starter who lets Cousins and Gay get lots of touches with more of a quarterback coming off the bench who can help the second unit get easy scores.

But that's assuming Lawson can return to form. If he can, I think the PG talent is worse than last year but the impact might be better given what Coach wants to do. Especially as you have more versatility on the bench with a small, scoring PG and a bigger, defensive combo guard.
 
TheJewishKing said:
Forgot to take coach Joerger and the Golden 1 center under consideration, it can totally give us a different impact for this season...

But still I don't think that our squad is better than last season's I don't know why, but I can't see where Barnes can add something that we are missing while having both Casspi and Gay, Afflalo is obviously better than Belinelli, but I don't know if he is going to fit right with the squad, I actually fear that there are too many ball hoggers on this current Kings team.

As for the PF spot, a very problematic spot for us, an unexperienced rookie and a sophomore are the ones filling the roles, you can't really trust on that, I mean Willie is a good defender but he is not a very talented or gifted offensive player, we'll need to see how it works out for us.

I would really love to read what are the strong suits and the weakness points of our new rookies and how do you think they will mix in our team in this current season, will they have a crucial role on the team or not so much...
Click to expand...

I don't think Pf will be a problem for us. Willie should have arguably gotten closer to 30 min per game than 20 min last year. Yes, summer league was not encouraging but playing next to Boogie, Rudy, Afflalo an Collison makes him the fifth option which is much better suited to his game than being asked to create out of the post like in summer league.

Here is a highlight video of his 2015/2016 season:

Watching it, it seems like he has a very good feeling for getting behind his man as soon as someone drives in his direction and then get the pass and dunc it. What's encouraging is that is was not just Rondo who threw this passes, a lot were also from Collison, Rudy and Boogie. I also want to see him use his quickness out of the post more often like he did a few times.

But we got a lot of other players that can play PF as well, f.e if we decide to use Willie as a back up C: You can argue that backup PF is Casspis best spot, Tolliver can also give you 18 min a game and hit his open shots and Skal is a wild card who I think is more ready to play than many believe.

To your question regarding the rookies:
Papagiannis had a very tough summer league. He looked very out of shape, slow and heavy. Granted, he was hurt for the first games but there were concerns about his weight even before summer league. His feel for the game was atrocious. He got stripped as soon as he put the ball on the floor and his passing was not good. He got called for a 5 second post foul which is really rare.
The positive side? Well this guy is huge and has some hidden athletic ability and skill. Even while being out of shape he still altered shots at the rim with his size even though I don't think he blocked a single shot. He didnt get killed that much in the P&R as I expected. He had one nice athletic dunk and hit an elbow jumper.

Richardson played different than in college. He was really passive it times, to the point where he sometimes was too passive. But he showed that he is able to defend as he played really good defense on Buddy Hield for one half. He also made some nice shots but has to get more consistent with his shot. He can nail a contested 3 and then come down on the next posession and airbail a wide open shot.

Skal was really the bright spot for this team. This kid has talent! He can scoren in nearly every way to you can think of: Out of the post, of the dribble, shooting threes. I am also encouraged by his box-out technique but he has to get stronger and consistent to make use of that better more often.
 
Defensively the Kings are better than last season and it is not close. Defense is Joerger's calling card. Afflalo, Temple, Barnes and Tolliver all can defend better than the guys whose spots they took. Skal and Malachi can defend and WCS should be better this season.

People are dissing Tolliver on this board but I see him as a contributor off the bench. I loved this play from him:


And his response:


He can even score a little:

 
The Kings probably took a step back offensively with the loss of Rondo and other pieces this offseason but between the firing of defensive caveman George Karl, the hiring of Dave Joerger, and the offseason acquisitions, this team is going to be far better defensively.

The ability to throw out plus defenders like Kosta (his last year under Joerger, he was ranked as one of the best defensive bigs in the league), Barnes (a player who doesn't exactly play a brand of basketball effected all that much by age), and Garrett Temple (versatile defender who could become even better on D in the Joerger/Turner system) off the bench could make a huge difference.

The starting lineup remains essentially unchanged from the Michael Malone hot-start team with the exception of Willie replacing the now-in-China Jason Thompson, a lineup that gutted out some great defensive performances despite not necessarily being a collection of great individual defenders. If Joerger can tap into more of that and Darren isn't suspended for a huge chunk of the season, things may not be all that doom and gloomy.
 
Nobody is expecting much from Isaiah Cousins. 6' 4" defends and shoots the 3. I think he surprises folks this season.



He hits a game winner:

 
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