Allen Iverson - MERGED

[nbrans]

First off, this has been an interesting few days. I can't help but think you could cut and paste many comments I've been seeing/hearing, and they would sound eerily familiar:

"The Kings need a spark"
"The Kings roster is too lackadaisical, we need someone new, with fire"
"He gets a clean slate here, watch how he meshes"
"This is what the fans need to get excited"

Well, just a few months after the Kings got Ron Artest, here we are again. Sure, many things are different. But I think there's a reason why Geoff has been so successful, he doesnt jump just because it looks good on paper.

I think caution is necessary, and I think its too easy to give into the hype of something new, no matter how fun and flashy it looks.

That being said....

I wanted to have fun like everyone else, so here's my idea, which works under the cap.

I can't see the Kings trading Brad (as rough a year as he's having), because he really is there ONLY big man. Yes, you could get Dalembert back, but he just signed a fat extension last summer, and I'm not sure you want to take that on with AI's contract, and Ron's impending opt out clause.

So here's what I think:

Philly trades:

Iverson
Iguodala

Sac trades:

Bibby
Martin
Williamson

Here's why:

Now all of a sudden, you have the #1 guy in steals at the 3 spot, #2 at PG, and #4 at SG. That's a pretty quick defensive lineup. Iggy is only 22, and can jump out of the gym.

Yes, you give up K-Mart, but you gotta give to get. As much as I love Kevin Martin, he isnt the most dimensional player in the game. He scores, and is athletic, but that's about it. Iggy does just about everything else better than K-mart (especially rebound), except score. But with the NBA's leading scorer on your team now, why stunt Kevin's growth? Iggy already knows the score, having played with AI.

You also keep your one big man in Brad, and you have a quick defensive team, that can also run and gun pretty well.

Iverson
Dalembert
Artest
(that's a pretty good start)
KT/SAR
Miller


Just my 4 cents

Bricklayer is Carmichael Dave?



Also, great to hear your thoughts, CD.

 

[carmichaeldave]

Bricklayer is Carmichael Dave?

uh oh. did i not read the thread, and thus end up echoing someone else? sorry.. If that's the case, count me in with whoever had the original thought.

 

[Cal-Kings]

Larry Brown is only interested in one thing: Larry Brown. Sorry, but any argument that includes reference to him and his abilities is not going to carry much weight in my book.

You're entitled to your opinion. And Brown is only one of many coaches that have tried to work with AI.

I think if a trade brings Iverson to Sacramento we have to at least give him the opportunity to show how he can fit in. Why wouldn't we? Assuming ahead of time that he won't work is defeatist IMHO... And it's not like any of us have any real say in the matter anyway.

I'm still maintaining that people should at least be willing to keep an open mind.

I think history is a solid basis for predicting someone's behavior in the future, especially when many coaches have tried to alter this players game for many years and have not been successful.

The odds have to be against him suddenly becoming a team player for more than a handful of games.

 

[thatguy]

Iverson
Dalembert
Artest
(that's a pretty good start)
KT/SAR
Miller

Just my 4 cents

I think you meant Iggy, right? But either way, meet the 76ers West. And the Kings East for that matter.

 

[G_M]

Iverson
Dalembert
Artest
(that's a pretty good start)
KT/SAR
Miller


Just my 4 cents

Iguodala??

 

[VF21]

You're entitled to your opinion. And Brown is only one of many coaches that have tried to work with AI.



I think history is a solid basis for predicting someone's behavior in the future, especially when many coaches have tried to alter this players game for many years and have not been successful.

The odds have to be against him suddenly becoming a team player for more than a handful of games.

Erm, okay...

I don't agree with you. I'm not going to agree with you. And you aren't going to agree with me. Can we just let it go at that?

 

[carmichaeldave]

Iguodala??

edited. thanks.

 

[Troy]

"Friday on ESPN, Stephen A. Smith reported that Iverson, who has demanded to be traded, lately had shown more interest in being in Atlantic City than at practice. Perfect! Trade Iverson to the Connecticut Sun, the WNBA team owned by the Mohegan Sun casino. Iverson would be a great draw on game nights. And, instead of attending practices, he can spend his time in the casino - losing his money back to the team owner."
http://www.nypost.com/seven/12112006/sports/dealing_iverson_is_no_gamble_sports_phil_mushnick.htm

The Maloofs have the Palms so AI should be happy getting a jet there to gamble. I really see the Maloofs stepping in like they did with Artest and wining and dining AI to get him here. GP is the parent authority and the Maloofs are the kids that whine for what they want, in the end they will probably go over GPs head and put forth a good effort getting AI to Sac.

 

[Burrito06]

"Friday on ESPN, Stephen A. Smith reported that Iverson, who has demanded to be traded, lately had shown more interest in being in Atlantic City than at practice. Perfect! Trade Iverson to the Connecticut Sun, the WNBA team owned by the Mohegan Sun casino. Iverson would be a great draw on game nights. And, instead of attending practices, he can spend his time in the casino - losing his money back to the team owner."
http://www.nypost.com/seven/12112006/sports/dealing_iverson_is_no_gamble_sports_phil_mushnick.htm

The Maloofs have the Palms so AI should be happy getting a jet there to gamble. I really see the Maloofs stepping in like they did with Artest and wining and dining AI to get him here. GP is the parent authority and the Maloofs are the kids that whine for what they want, in the end they will probably go over GPs head and put forth a good effort getting AI to Sac.

There is an Insider Article from ESPN by Broussard who talks about the Kings and AI. However, I don't know what the article says because I dont have INSIDER. If anyone has it would they mind on letting us know what it says.

 

[Kingzrool]

in the end they will probably go over GPs head and put forth a good effort getting AI to Sac.

Sounds like they are letting GP do the dealing, if they do the shmoozing, that is not necessarily going over GP's head. I would guess that GP is on board with this. Man, can you imagine how bad of a shmoozer GP is? Good thing the Maloofs are around for that.

 

[Elise10]

Maybe...maybe not

ESPN.com reported that the Sixers were inclined to make their move tonight or tomorrow, and said via a source that Minnesota was not seriously involved and that overblown attention (presumably by the media) was being paid to interest from Boston and Denver. At the same time, the Boston Globe was reporting, also through a source, that the Sixers had narrowed their list of the most serious suitors to six teams: Minnesota, Golden State, the Los Angeles Clippers, Boston, Indiana and Denver.

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/basketball/16214240.htm

 

[Denio]

I think if a trade brings Iverson to Sacramento we have to at least give him the opportunity to show how he can fit in. Why wouldn't we? Assuming ahead of time that he won't work is defeatist IMHO... And it's not like any of us have any real say in the matter anyway.

I'm still maintaining that people should at least be willing to keep an open mind.

Everyone will give him a chance. that is not the problem.. The chemistry on the team is not the best, and AI is not going to help.

Right now there is a problem with Ron and Bibby.. Problem is Bibby's lack of defense and I am sure Ron has got on Mike about it.. other than that and K9's complaining, the team seems to have a pretty good chemistry.

Iverson will bring his own "chemistry set" to the team... nobody has been able to play with him and everybody is happy to leave. If Chris Webber can't play with him, do you think the group we have here will like it..

Nobody will, or has said anything about him while still on the same team..
The man is a great player.. how can you criticize him.. ( Ron will )..
Everybody just tries to do their part, but not liking it..

I hope it doesn't happen, but if it does I will welcome him, and we will have some interesting basketball to watch.. another plus is his trade value if things go south..

 

[VF21]

Erm, I think most of that stuff is pretty out-dated Elise.

 

[VF21]

Just a request, folks?

Rumors have been flying all day. We're starting to get a lot of duplicatons on stuff. If you find something that has been out there for more than an hour, chances are it was already posted...

 

[Bricklayer]

Also, I'd just like to point out that peopel usually point to Iguodala as somone hampered by AI, but what about Kyle Korver? I mean, the guy makes a very good living off of AI's kickouts. Shouldn't he be the Kevin comparison?

Given that Kevin will be hardpressed to match Korver's 13ppg after the trade, sure.

Just not enouogh balls to go around, and really if you get A.I. you don't WANT there to be enough balls to go around. The whole key to A.I.s aura is the relentless constant atttack attack attack. If he were to step back and become more of a "team" player, he would also lose what makes him special and jsut be another good little player. So A.I. to the rescue, and at least if we have any hopes of this thing not blowin up, ron as the clear #2. Everybody else will jsut be scraps and might as well be replaced by hustlers , reboudners, defenders.

 

[nbrans]

Given that Kevin will be hardpressed to match Korver's 13ppg after the trade, sure.

Just not enouogh balls to go around, and really if you get A.I. you don't WANT there to be enough balls to go around. The whole key to A.I.s aura is the relentless constant atttack attack attack. If he were to step back and become more of a "team" player, he would also lose what makes him special and jsut be another good little player. So A.I. to the rescue, and at least if we have any hopes of this thing not blowin up, ron as the clear #2. Everybody else will jsut be scraps and might as well be replaced by hustlers , reboudners, defenders.

Well, if you put Korver on another team I don't think he would start averaging 20 points per game. All I meant is that Korver, relative to his ability level, is doing very well with AI.

 

[Elise10]

Erm, I think most of that stuff is pretty out-dated Elise.

Umm, it was posted today....and the sentence before that says the following:

ESPN.com reported that the Sixers were inclined to make their move tonight or tomorrow(same as insider said), and said via a source that Minnesota was not seriously involved and that overblown attention (presumably by the media) was being paid to interest from Boston and Denver.

Hence the title maybe.....maybe not, depends on what newspaper happens to be reporting it

 

[VF21]

The newspapers are just about hopelessly unable to keep up with late-breaking stuff because of the Internet. As much as I detest ESPN, I think they're able to get better stuff than publications like the Boston Globe. That's what I meant by "out-dated"...

 

[CruzDude]

Every player that has come to the Kings with baggage has been given a clean slate. And almost always it's worked out.

IF Allen Iverson came to the Kings, I would be willing to bet he'd surprise a lot of people. For one thing, is there any doubt he would want to show that he wasn't the problem, that he can play with a team, etc?

IF Iverson came, there would be excitement in Kings land once again. That leads to positive feelings about the team and that could easily lead to a better feel about building a new arena.

I have a contradictory view of AI: he is a great scoring guard who gets 8-10 assists a night, but he has an attitude that in Philly at least, created problems on and off the court. Team players make all the practices and all the PR requirements for players. At least in Sacramento they do.

Historically AI creates problems. Are they 100% his fault? No, more like 50-75%. But what were the issues team wise? Why hasn't he been to the finals more than once considering the teams/coaches they have had? Can he be a team player? Can he be satisified with 25/10 and help Kevin get 20/10reb? The idea of AI kicking out to Kevin or Brad or even Ron Ron is definitely exciting. But I just have a problem with his attitude over the years. If there are extenuating circumstances then we need to know what they are before making such a deal.

His Bling and his Attitude were the deal in Philly. But Sac Town is 1000% different and what plays in Philly likely won't play in Sacto. Maybe more important than being a Team Player might be "could he even live in a cow town (compared to Phlly) like Sacramento without destroying the town and the team and himself?"

And lastly, can he and Ron Ron co-exist together and make the Kings a better team? Does Ron Ron have to run the team? and could AI deal with that in a positive manner for 2-3 years? Arrrggghhhhhhhhhh................ agonizing thoughts. Poor Geoff....

 

[Troy]

The newspapers are just about hopelessly unable to keep up with late-breaking stuff because of the Internet. As much as I detest ESPN, I think they're able to get better stuff than publications like the Boston Globe. That's what I meant by "out-dated"...

Based on what I heard yesterday we should have a decision on AI tonight or tomorrow. I think our offer if it is Bibby and some expiring contracts is as good as Philly will see. This gives them flexibility going into next season and will help them rebuild. I'm not apposed to seeing some big guys come here as well if we do get in a 2+ team deal and move some of our "moveable pieces" finally. While we were probably wanting to hold onto our expiring contracts to mid season, or just let them come off the books after this year....the offer of AI is too good to pass up and while Bibby is good and has been hampered by his wrist....the writing on the wall with his player option there is a good chance he will walk anyways at the end of the season. Also Bibby would come off the 6ers books if he did go so they'd be happy with that anyways and freeing themselves totally of AI and his huge contract.

While AI is a huge risk, we can always ship him off later if it doesn't work out. There isn't a shortage of teams that want him, even after a Kings 1-2 year rental!

Well at that point, 2 years down he is 33 and his contract will come off the books anyways. I think 2-3 seasons of AI is o.k. We are in a passive rebuilding mode anyways so what the heck. If you are going to do it...make a splash not a little ripple!!!!

 

[BMiller52]

I have a contradictory view of AI: he is a great scoring guard who gets 8-10 assists a night, but he has an attitude that in Philly at least, created problems on and off the court. Team players make all the practices and all the PR requirements for players. At least in Sacramento they do.

Historically AI creates problems. Are they 100% his fault? No, more like 50-75%. But what were the issues team wise? Why hasn't he been to the finals more than once considering the teams/coaches they have had? Can he be a team player? Can he be satisified with 25/10 and help Kevin get 20/10reb? The idea of AI kicking out to Kevin or Brad or even Ron Ron is definitely exciting. But I just have a problem with his attitude over the years. If there are extenuating circumstances then we need to know what they are before making such a deal.

His Bling and his Attitude were the deal in Philly. But Sac Town is 1000% different and what plays in Philly likely won't play in Sacto. Maybe more important than being a Team Player might be "could he even live in a cow town (compared to Phlly) like Sacramento without destroying the town and the team and himself?"

And lastly, can he and Ron Ron co-exist together and make the Kings a better team? Does Ron Ron have to run the team? and could AI deal with that in a positive manner for 2-3 years? Arrrggghhhhhhhhhh................ agonizing thoughts. Poor Geoff....

How anybody going to help our 6'7'' skinny shooting guard get 10 rebounds?

 

[Fresno King]

The 76ers are a 5-14 basketball team. Why in the hell would we try to get Iverson, Iggy AND Dalembert? Makes NO sense.

 

[VF21]

How anybody going to help our 6'7'' skinny shooting guard get 10 rebounds?

If Iverson takes a lot of shots, he's going to miss a number of them. If Martin is in position, he could well be the recipient of a number of offensive rebounds.

He isn't afraid to go inside and grab boards.

 

[BMiller52]

If Iverson takes a lot of shots, he's going to miss a number of them. If Martin is in position, he could well be the recipient of a number of offensive rebounds.

He isn't afraid to go inside and grab boards.

Haha, so even if AI didn't make our team better and we made the deal, atleast it'd make team's who have Kevin in a fantasy league better

 

[BonziFan]

Ezekielbear is reporting on his site that he just talked to his source and was told that the Kings are in very detailed talks right now.
Williamson, Bibby, Garcia, #1, Hart for Iverson, Ollie, Henderson. He did say that could change because it would not be able to be completed until the 15th because of Henderson. He said he was told that Sacramento was leading all talks right now.

 

[tyrant]

i dont give a d*m how many assists we average a game. an artest/iverson backcourt would be awesome. who cares about assists when you have 2 players that can score at will. and if we keep miller you know he'll set some hard picks and make good passes.

 

[Bricklayer]

Oh lordy -- if people think Iverson is going to come here and make Kevin, or ANYBODY, better, agin, they haven't been watching. This isn't Nash. If Iverson comes, its about what Iverson can do for us. Everybody else will suffer. And that's actually just fine so long as he can take us where we want to get. Just a very real question of whether he can or not. In any case, Kevin and Brad will have to walk that fine line between being patient, and being passive. They'll shoot when and where A.I. and sometimes Ron want them to, not otherwise. Neither is going to average 20. Nor likely even 15. A.I. arriving has never been a good career move for basically anyone, with the possible exception fo Eric Snow who of course notriously did not WANT to shoot. But again, if we could somehow dupe the success fo those 01 Sixers and make it to the Finals on the back of the A.I. show, then its all good. Kevin will just have to make the most of his 10 shots, and Brad the most of his 8.

 

[NBAGURU]

Do you have a link? or anthing?

 

[BMiller52]

i dont give a d*m how many assists we average a game. an artest/iverson backcourt would be awesome. who cares about assists when you have 2 players that can score at will. and if we keep miller you know he'll set some hard picks and make good passes.

Wow I think hell just froze over-tyrant made a positive comment about Miller!

 

[Smills91]

Ezekielbear is reporting on his site that he just talked to his source and was told that the Kings are in very detailed talks right now.
Williamson, Bibby, Garcia, #1, Hart for Iverson, Ollie, Henderson. He did say that could change because it would not be able to be completed until the 15th because of Henderson. He said he was told that Sacramento was leading all talks right now.

Pretty close to what I thought...I'd say they either add Hunter instead of Henderson or they we should subtract Garcia/1st rounder.