All-inclusive DMC non-game discussion thread

whats it like to support a NBA franchise where somthing goes right every so often??? :(

if we **** up again im tempted to walk.... the kings in the three years i have supported them and the year before that of following them have done nothing but bring me down.... being from the UK i have to ties to the area and could move but dont want to..... but im tempted....
 
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LWP777 said:
Thanks for the info on Calipari. What would you do about Cuz if you were in charge?
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Well I'd go get a good solid head coach that has had success handling young players. But since thats a long shot, I'd try to teach Cousins a lesson he won't forget. I'd suspend him for a month, maybe more. I wouldn't allow him in the locker room or let him sit on the bench. I'd make it clear to him that he has issues he has to work on and change, and thats his responsibility, not mine. I'd offer him professional help, and advise him that if he takes the help, it will shorten the suspension. I'd make it clear to him, that I don't like doing these things, but rules are rules, and if life, like it or not, you have to abide by rules, otherwise you might find yourself behind the counter at a 7/11, or worse yet, lifting weights in a federal prison.

His responses are out of habit. Habits learned in his short time in the world. Habits can be changed or modified, but only if the person is willing to do the work. That has to be impressed on Cousins. Being a great player isn't just about scoring and rebounding, but about the intangibles you bring that allow you the opportunity to do those things. And that includes respecting officials, other players, and your head coach, even if you don't agree with him. If you don't agree with the way the head coach is doing things, then do what he asks, and let the results prove to the powers that be, that what he's doing isn't working. Don't let him use your lack of cooperation as an excuse for his failure.

I've never excused Cousins actions. What I've criticized is how his actions have been responded to by management and the coaching staff. Westphal made everything public, instead of keeping it in house. Petrie stood by and basicly did nothing. Its as though he doesn't even exist at times. Nary a peep from the Maloofs. Smart, in my opinion, tried to befriend Cousins, and thats always a mistake. All in all, its a very bad inviroment for a player like Cousins, who is very smart, very talented, but very immature. He's in need of a strong coach that he respects and believes in, and I don't see that in the immediate future. So the best thing for Cousins might be to just remove him from the equation for a while, and let him clear his head.

Send him home. Remove his contact with the team and let him concentrate on dealing with personal issues. Right now, thats all thats separates him from being a very good basketball player. Thats what I would do. I doubt thats what will happen.
 
LWP777 said:
Thanks for the info on Calipari. What would you do about Cuz if you were in charge?
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Bajaden has already answered this. He would send him to a good psychiatrist. People have called Cousins bipolar, a nutcase, crazy, sulky, etc and it seems obvious to me he has a mental illness along with about 25% of the population. So if he is mentally ill what do we do? Punish him? That seems to be the best idea from this mob. But let's back up because there are other issues.

#1) Is Cousins mentally ill? Most likely. It's either that or a brain tumor.
#2) Is mental illness a medical problem. Of course as much as people resist this idea, it is very much a medical problem.
#4) If it is a medical problem, why is he treated different than Tyreke. Tyreke is given a free pass because of this mysterious bruise of his knee which seems to be taking an eternity to heal if that is indeed his problem. Is he suspended without pay? Of course not because he has a medical problem.
#5) Is Cousins getting treatment for his medical problem and why is he suspended without pay for having such a medical problem?

What distinguishes a bruise from depression other than prejudice against the mentally ill as being weak, a nutcase, crazy, or however you want to see?

A week ago I said Cousins was going to blow up as I do watch him closely and have some knowledge of mental illness. Well, he did blow up. I remember thinking to myself that the best thing for Cousins would be to take a few weeks off and get some treatment. I don't mean hospitalization as that is over kill but start some treatment and take some time off to decompress. Take some time off to take care of himself and quit this expectation that he is supposed to make everyone else happy. He has already tried to make everyone happy and a great majority are just angry at him. Let us say he is depressed as his behavior could fit that. There are other options. So we have a 22 year old depressed kid who has the weight of the franchise on his shoulders. That's a lot of responsibility.

So do we dump him, do we trade, or do we treat him? What's best for the franchise?
 
OK hold on a min this from Sam A's article... "Cousins, according to one of the people, used extensive profanity while sharing his latest frustrations."

but seriously how many of us have been in the same place as Cousins when it comes to Smart and his coaching... WE think its bad?? could you imagine actually being on the freaking team and having Smart, this nut job telling you what to do and not making sense everyday???!!! WE WOULD ALL LOSE OUR MINDS!!!

is cousins immature? yes... is he mentally ill because he used profanity while sharing his frustrations??? i dont think so... we are all blowing cousins making this a bigger deal...

ASK YOURSELF THIS .... would Cousins be doing this under Greg pop? or Phil Jackson? or a coach that actually knows how to coach?? maybe he would act out a lil bit. but this whole thing is due to the Maloofs #1 for not spending to get a real coach, then #2 Smart for being an idiot!!!! and forcing people to blow up!
 
DeMarcus Cousins needs real strong mentor he can look up too, give great respect and admiration too - most of all emulate to get out of this endlessly stupid, destructive, immature behavior. Kings have tried his former high school coach which didn't much work. They assigned a handful of former players coming and going as mentors, but there's one individual I'd like to see take him under his wing, crushing him under it if he has too, to really try to get through to the spoiled rotten big kid. Shaquille O'Neal. Shaq is as impossing a physical presence as Cuz - even more so. Shaq believes in hard core discipline, accountability, respect for authority, and had it growing up in strong two parent household with his US Amry drill seargent step father. Shaq would be great if he'd agree to come on board as personal life and basketball coach just for Cousins with a team he made jokes about - calling them "the Queens." It might not work in the end, but worth a try since aren't we all just about at our wits end with this continuing problem child nonsense?!
 
PurpleHaze said:
Shaq believes in hard core discipline, accountability, respect for authority,
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LOL! i nominate this as joke post of the year! Shaq had respect for authority??? so like all those times he argued with Kobe and Phil Jackson that was out of respect???
hard core discipline? you mean hard core weight gain? and hard core lack of conditioning?
and who the hell was he accountable to?
 
some players don't want a mentor, and aren't receptive to someone saying "here's a mentor, enjoy"

They have to be seen as someone who is there to help and not just another authority figure to get on your back. You have to want to be coached, taught etc etc.
 
sactownfan said:
LOL! i nominate this as joke post of the year! Shaq had respect for authority??? so like all those times he argued with Kobe and Phil Jackson that was out of respect???
hard core discipline? you mean hard core weight gain? and hard core lack of conditioning?
and who the hell was he accountable to?
Click to expand...

Thanks for nomination and I proudly accept for your pleasure. Shaq respected authority without question as he was never suspended that I'm aware of for repeated incidents like Cousins has merry-go-round bad history. Obviously, Shaq respected Kobe and Jackson just enough to not take it to insane levels - and just win in the end. O'Neal has all those rings as proof he did it all the proper way but not without some minor, and I emphasis minor bumps along the way.
 
as if this team wasn't already unwatchable enough, now the only 2 players worth keeping on this team are not going to be playing the next couple games.
 
Reke 13 Havoc said:
as if this team wasn't already unwatchable enough, now the only 2 players worth keeping on this team are not going to be playing the next couple games.
Click to expand...

..... and I have found that games at times like this have been most interesting and enjoyable.

The two best players you refer to are also the two most unreliable players on the team.
 
You know, I am not the biggest Keith Smart fan, but even I know he is not the issue in why this team is so bad. Why is it that we always want to fire the coach when things go bad. The Kings organization has hired Musselman, Theus, Natt, Westphal and Smart.... AND THE TEAM STILL SUCKS!!!!!

So I would like to ask two questions:

1. If Smart is fired, who should the Kings hire?
2. If another coach is hired, do you really think the situation would change?

In my view, until there is a massive house cleaning from the owners to the basketball players, we are stuck with this situation as Kings fans.
 
WOW,
mental illness, trade for peanuts, seriously!!!!!
I should not be upset with what is in my opinion drivel against Kings best player which would be understandable only if it is coming for someone rooting to get Cousins from us, but I am.

Do not know, maybe new low of mental illness invocation and degradation of its meaning triggered me.
What kind of mental illness we are talking about? Where are those actions that 6'11' professional athlete did that show his danger to anyone? In last 3 years there is exactly 1 incident that involves anything physical (Green) and that's it. Please spare me Mayo's whining that guy he does not like touched his privates.
Where are those out of control incidents in bar clubs (knifes, guns), gambling debt airplane fights, on court fights, heck any fights, crazy ideas, incoherent ramblings....

He is yelling. On 8-18 team he is unhappy. On team that not a single poster here is happy about, oh my gosh, he is yelling. On a coach that none of us wants to see, he is yelling.... damn we are all mentally ill.
In completely unstable professional environment, 22 year old is not showing stability and growing up. Is that really unexpected?
What is it that makes this not to be maturity issue?

Not all of us cheer for Kings because of our location, for some of us it is a choice. For me, it is the magic of potential of Reke and Cousins reaching their potential together, and little bit of habit since other fellow serbs played here. And despite enjoying posts of some of the exceptionally funny and interesting posters (Baja+Brick), departure of either of this guys will mean departure for me.
It is delusion to think that any other player on this team can be anything than 3-4th player on anything that would be decent team, and magic is gone.

Regarding this incident, good moves.
Despite awful awful state of the Kings organization, nothing sends the message louder and makes you grow up then isolation from the team and your teammates.
One of the rare good moves by organization.
Second needed move is tougher. It requires stability that would be able to handle young talents and develop them. That would require that Smart becomes adjective,owners have money and team has its place for the long term. Otherwise, there will be no place for any young, emotional, intelligent or skillful person to be, nor for a fan like me.

Happy Holidays and sorry for rant.
 
LWP777 said:
Good for them! Glad they had the courage to do the right thing. And, yes, this season is a complete mess but this is a good start in fixing the problem. Look for the Kings to start playing much harder in the games to come.
Click to expand...

You're in for a lot of disappointment.
 
A few less Kings games to watch this season I guess thus far without Cousins 0-3 two 20points blow outs vs Lakers/Portland (both who we easily beat with him) and a 10 point loss to a Bucks team that played trash. Suspending him while we have two very winnable games vs Portland where the whole team including Cuz can get his confidence back is dumb.
 
This is what happens when your owners are more concerned about trying to find a new city to play in than improving the team.
 
PurpleHaze said:
Maybe Cousins was raised in family where his mother (don't know if it was two parent family) tried to be his friend instead of the parent in charge. That's one of if not the biggest problem I see in modern American society. Parents wanting to be kids best friend above all else. Enforces family dysfunction and discord. Totally agree with your sentiments here Baja. (opps, meant this post to be in response to Bajaden about Calipari, etc.)
Click to expand...

It was a one parent family. Just his mother. I don't know the reasons for his not having a father, but I met his mother at summer league a couple of years ago, and she's a very nice lady, and she told me she was happy Cuz ended up in sacramento, because first, he's a small town boy, and secondly she didn't think he'd do well in a big city like New York or Chicago. What kind of relationship she had with Cuz is something I can't answer, but I do know that if she beckens, he comes, so I believe he has respect for her. Lest we forget, Cuz isn't the only child she had. He has a younger brother thats just as big as he is. He doesn't appear to be as talented though.
 
Purple Reign said:
You know, I am not the biggest Keith Smart fan, but even I know he is not the issue in why this team is so bad. Why is it that we always want to fire the coach when things go bad. The Kings organization has hired Musselman, Theus, Natt, Westphal and Smart.... AND THE TEAM STILL SUCKS!!!!!

So I would like to ask two questions:

1. If Smart is fired, who should the Kings hire?
2. If another coach is hired, do you really think the situation would change?

In my view, until there is a massive house cleaning from the owners to the basketball players, we are stuck with this situation as Kings fans.
Click to expand...

When you listed all the coaches, I think you answered your own question. Not a proven coach amongst them. What have any of them done since leaving the Kings. Yes, I think a good coach would make a difference. If a good coach doesn't matter, then why spend big bucks on Phil Jackson or Popivich. Just hire some highschool coach and give him free reign. Oh wait, they did that already with Gary St. Jean. How'd that one work out?

The ultimate way a coach gets respect is by putting together a plan that leads to winning. Players will buy into any plan for a while, especially if the coach is a good seller, like Smart, and before him Musselman. The players have heard Smarts ideas and the result is, were losing. Keep it up, and its just a matter of time before the coach loses the team. Smart is on his way. The only difference between Smart and Westphal, is that Westphall is taller, and Smart is a better talker. Otherwise, I don't see a lot of difference.

Whats painful, is to watch other NBA teams play, which I do on a regular basis, and then come back and watch the Kings. I have no idea what kiind of offense the Kings are running. I have no idea what their prioritys are as to who they're running plays for. I see players like Johnson, Outlaw, etc. get the ball, and wa la, some kind of shot is about to go up. While at the same time, A Thornton or a Jimmer or a IT is standing on the right or left wing wide open. I'm at the point where I'm starting to throw things at my TV. So now I have to make sure there aren't any hard objects within reach before the game.

Hire a Van Gundy, a Larry Brown or any proven head coach with a good record, and I guarantee you you'll see a difference.
 
andjel said:
WOW,
mental illness, trade for peanuts, seriously!!!!!
I should not be upset with what is in my opinion drivel against Kings best player which would be understandable only if it is coming for someone rooting to get Cousins from us, but I am.

Do not know, maybe new low of mental illness invocation and degradation of its meaning triggered me.
What kind of mental illness we are talking about? Where are those actions that 6'11' professional athlete did that show his danger to anyone? In last 3 years there is exactly 1 incident that involves anything physical (Green) and that's it. Please spare me Mayo's whining that guy he does not like touched his privates.
Where are those out of control incidents in bar clubs (knifes, guns), gambling debt airplane fights, on court fights, heck any fights, crazy ideas, incoherent ramblings....

He is yelling. On 8-18 team he is unhappy. On team that not a single poster here is happy about, oh my gosh, he is yelling. On a coach that none of us wants to see, he is yelling.... damn we are all mentally ill.
In completely unstable professional environment, 22 year old is not showing stability and growing up. Is that really unexpected?
What is it that makes this not to be maturity issue?

Not all of us cheer for Kings because of our location, for some of us it is a choice. For me, it is the magic of potential of Reke and Cousins reaching their potential together, and little bit of habit since other fellow serbs played here. And despite enjoying posts of some of the exceptionally funny and interesting posters (Baja+Brick), departure of either of this guys will mean departure for me.
It is delusion to think that any other player on this team can be anything than 3-4th player on anything that would be decent team, and magic is gone.

Regarding this incident, good moves.
Despite awful awful state of the Kings organization, nothing sends the message louder and makes you grow up then isolation from the team and your teammates.
One of the rare good moves by organization.
Second needed move is tougher. It requires stability that would be able to handle young talents and develop them. That would require that Smart becomes adjective,owners have money and team has its place for the long term. Otherwise, there will be no place for any young, emotional, intelligent or skillful person to be, nor for a fan like me.

Happy Holidays and sorry for rant.
Click to expand...

You must remember that mental illness is a very general term. It can mean anyone with dysfunctional thinking, to a homicidal maniac. I realize that the term in and of itself has a bad connotation to it. My stepson is Bi-Polar, and without his medication, you never know who your dealing with. One is a very gentle person, and the other one is an angry, and sometimes violent person. And, you never know whats going to set him off. However, he leads a normal life thanks to his med's. I have a friend who is a Psychiatrist, and he told me once that he believed that every person on the planet is mentally ill to some some degree. Its the degree that matters.

Now I'm not saying that Cousins is Bi-Polar, or that he has serious mental problems. But he does have attitude problems that probably stem from his childhood. He's a big kid, and he's probably been bigger than everyone else his own age for a long time. When a kid that big blows, everyone just gets out of his way. Now when I was his age, and I blew my top, there was always someone there that was willing to let me know, that he wasn't impressed, and he was more than willing to help instruct me on the finer aspects of boxing.

In other words, if you reward bad behavior, your going to get more bad behavior. The key is to remember to reward good behavior. Thats how I used to train hunting dogs, and it worked everytime. Of course every once in a while I had to use a shock collar. Hmmmm, I wonder what Cousins neck size is?
 
Propbably needed to happen, but its a huge risk. What you have to aim for is a reset since you a) have destroyed his trade value and b) have no chance at all at getting a talent in the same stratosphere in trade anyway.

Now:

1) this is going to need to last for a bit

2) get Webb on a plane pronto -- if you are the Maloofs it might even be worth springing for air fare. Coach of course. Heck, get Vlade on a plane if he still comes to the sttes. And Coachie, if he's still well enough to travel. Point is during this downtime you need to try to bring in a major voice, and a Kings voice to just talk to DeMarcus. Sidle up and have a chat about things. Can't be organizational. He's already heard those and they just suspended him. Needs to be a significant figure. More than one would be cool too.

3) Tyreke needs to come back from his terrible bruise of death and play well. He's no vocal leader, but he has to become the focal point Smart refuses to assign in order to give us stability and a sense of order and an alternate, sane, leader. When Cousins comes back he needs to come back to a team with some sense of identity without him.

4) we need a trade. Several of them. And not for kids. In fact the other way around. We need a trade for a significant steadying vet to put next to Reke as we try to establish order. And adding another vet or two -- and I mean real hoary I've won it all but now need a cane vets -- beyond the main one to establish order. I've suggested names of pros that might be available. Too quiet, too old...but the stability we need here. One of them needs to be a big man. This hasn't worked. So we need to create a safe and sane steady veteran environment with Reke hopefully playing at some level of starhood supported by steady people from steady systems. Then you return Cousins to the mix where his antics would stand out like a sore thumb and he'll have soem sort of team culture/identity to try to conform too.

5) obviously we need to have the standard sitdown with Boogie, the "coach", the agent etc.

6) if this lasts for any time, like until after the holidays to give the team time to stablize without him, some delegation of any veteran teammates who can actually stand him needs to show up at his doorstep, play ping pong wiht him or something while talking about needing him back, but all the nonsense has to end. somebody needs ot take the lead on being frend/mentor/person to catch Cuz's eye when he starts to lose it and bring him down.


-- TRob will have his chance to prove he's not a bust. Now or never kid.
 
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I wonder what the argument was over, what was said, how both parties reacted to the other and why the players seemed like they were in a such a good mood after half time. It is hard to know what to make of this without knowing the answers to these questions.
 
Bricklayer said:
Propbably needed to happen, but its a huge risk. What you have to aim for is a reset since you a) have destroyed his trade value and b) have no chance at all at getting a talent in the same stratosphere in trade anyway.

Now:

1) this is going to need to last for a bit

2) get Webb on a plane pronto -- if you are the Maloofs it might even be worth springing for air fare. Coach of course. Heck, get Vlade on a plane if he still comes to the sttes. And Coachie, if he's still well enough to travel. Point is during this downtime you need to try to bring in a major voice, and a Kings voice to just talk to DeMarcus. Sidle up and have a chat about things. Can't be organizational. He's already heard those and they just suspended him. Needs to be a significant figure. More than one would be cool too.

3) Tyreke needs to come back from his terrible bruise of death and play well. He's no vocal leader, but he has to become the focal point Smart refuses to assign in order to give us stability and a sense of order and an alternate, sane, leader. When Cousins comes back he needs to come back to a team with some sense of identity without him.

4) we need a trade. Several of them. And not for kids. In fact the other way around. We need a trade for a significant steadying vet to put next to Reke as we try to establish order. And adding another vet or two -- and I mean real hoary I've won it all but now need a cane vets -- beyond the main one to establish order. I've suggested names of pros that might be available. Too quiet, too old...but the stability we need here. One of them needs to be a big man. This hasn't worked. So we need to create a safe and sane steady veteran environment with Reke hopefully playing at some level of starhood supported by steady people from steady systems. Then you return Cousins to the mix where his antics would stand out like a sore thumb and he'll have soem sort of team culture/identity to try to conform too.

5) obviously we need to have the standard sitdown with Boogie, the "coach", the agent etc.

6) if this lasts for any time, like until after the holidays to give the team time to stablize without him, some delegation of any veteran teammates who can actually stand him needs to show up at his doorstep, play ping pong wiht him or something while talking about needing him back, but all the nonsense has to end. somebody needs ot take the lead on being frend/mentor/person to catch Cuz's eye when he starts to lose it and bring him down.


-- TRob will have his chance to prove he's not a bust. Now or never kid.
Click to expand...

ive said this since day 1. Webber would be an awesome role model for Cousins on and off the court. id love to see Chris work with DeMarcus on his game, and his attitude as well
 
bajaden said:
You must remember that mental illness is a very general term. It can mean anyone with dysfunctional thinking, to a homicidal maniac. I realize that the term in and of itself has a bad connotation to it. My stepson is Bi-Polar, and without his medication, you never know who your dealing with. One is a very gentle person, and the other one is an angry, and sometimes violent person. And, you never know whats going to set him off. However, he leads a normal life thanks to his med's. I have a friend who is a Psychiatrist, and he told me once that he believed that every person on the planet is mentally ill to some some degree. Its the degree that matters.

Now I'm not saying that Cousins is Bi-Polar, or that he has serious mental problems. But he does have attitude problems that probably stem from his childhood. He's a big kid, and he's probably been bigger than everyone else his own age for a long time. When a kid that big blows, everyone just gets out of his way. Now when I was his age, and I blew my top, there was always someone there that was willing to let me know, that he wasn't impressed, and he was more than willing to help instruct me on the finer aspects of boxing.

In other words, if you reward bad behavior, your going to get more bad behavior. The key is to remember to reward good behavior. Thats how I used to train hunting dogs, and it worked everytime. Of course every once in a while I had to use a shock collar. Hmmmm, I wonder what Cousins neck size is?
Click to expand...

I understand the range of mental illnesses (have some Bi-Polar folks in my family too) and heard the same saying that all of us are mentally ill to some degree from my Psychiatrist cousin :-)

Casually tossing diagnosis without any proof just to support some posters years long view that Kings are better if they get rid of Cousins is really really low.
I did not see anything with Cousins that would indicate any level of severity. There are no incidents that are not caused during or immediately after the highly physical and stressful events.

Unprofessional, immature... sure. Unusual and indication of anything to be blown out of proportion... not.
Heck, check those "crazy and immature" Chandler and Noah last night. There were couple of elbows there that were not intended for chasing mosquitoes, and forehead contacts were not love taps. Noah is playing today. Chicago and New York office must be dialing phones to get rid of them.
 
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