Al Horford

[Sac.1989]

No Movement Toward Extension
The Hawks All-Star big says there’s no movement in contract extension talks with Atlanta. From the AJC: “Horford said there’s been no movement on contract extension negotiations between his representatives and the Hawks. ‘We are still talking to the team,” he said. “I just hope it gets done.’ Agreement on an extension must be reached by Nov. 1 or he will become a restricted free agent next summer.”

http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2010/10/al-horford-no-movement-toward-extension/

potentially worth monitoring, could really do a job for us

 

[kingsboi]

I see him resigning. We got no shot at him.

 

[Bricklayer]

No Movement Toward Extension
The Hawks All-Star big says there’s no movement in contract extension talks with Atlanta. From the AJC: “Horford said there’s been no movement on contract extension negotiations between his representatives and the Hawks. ‘We are still talking to the team,” he said. “I just hope it gets done.’ Agreement on an extension must be reached by Nov. 1 or he will become a restricted free agent next summer.”

http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2010/10/al-horford-no-movement-toward-extension/

potentially worth monitoring, could really do a job for us

The real problem is that if he does not resign there, its probably because he's looking for stupid franchise player type money. I like Horford. Horford for $12mil a year becomes problematic.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

The real problem is that if he does not resign there, its probably because he's looking for stupid franchise player type money. I like Horford. Horford for $12mil a year becomes problematic.

they should have let joe johnson walk. now they are being stingy w/ money on players that are the future of the franchise

 

[bajaden]

they should have let joe johnson walk. now they are being stingy w/ money on players that are the future of the franchise

You could be right. Johnson played well for them during the season however, despite not playing well in the playoffs. Personally I think they overpaid, but someone would have offered him just as much. Like the Knicks, who had the money to spend, and were desperate to show the fans improvement. The problem that the Hawks have is that their total salaries are at just over 69 mil for this coming season. Putting them into the luxury tax. The only players coming off the books at the end of next season that have significant salaries, are Horford, Bibby, and Jamal Crawford. Bibby would probably be the most expendable because of his age. But resigning even one of them would put them over the cap, and two of them would probably put them in luxury tax range again. Of course a lot of this speculation is based on the old CBA.

As for the Kings. If we were to let Dalembert walk, and perhaps Landry as well, we would be around 33 mil under the cap. So signing Horford would certainlly be a possiblilty. But as Bricky says, it would probably take somewhere around 12 mil a year. I'll admit that the idea of Horford and Cousins starting in the frontcourt, with Thompson and Whiteside as backups is an inticing thought. It would allow Horford to play his natural position of PF. How they'd all fit together is another matter.

Right now the Hawks are playing lowball with Horford and Crawford, who I like by the way, and who played very well for them last year. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

 

[Prince_XY]

If Horford means more than 10M a year, I'd rather have a legit shot-blocker Dalembert, and the future frontcourt of Cousins, JT, and Whiteside ( with a little bit of Greene at PF). IMO, we are actually set with our front court. Most of our frontcourt guys just need time to develop nicely.

 

[mr. moustache]

Horford's a nice player, but not really what we need out of the PF posistion. Really, we need a Rodman. JT is actually one of the better matches for us at PF. It would be great if he could get better defensively and establish some consistency.

 

[Sparky6string]

IDK, I'm pretty happy with our bigs.

 

[Sac.1989]

Horford's a nice player, but not really what we need out of the PF posistion. Really, we need a Rodman. JT is actually one of the better matches for us at PF. It would be great if he could get better defensively and establish some consistency.

There stats are very similar really and it just comes down to what were willing to pay JT

 

[UK_King]

I'd rather have J smoove; he'd take us to the next level.

 

[Bricklayer]

I'd rather have J smoove; he'd take us to the next level.

You'd rather have a SF?

If defense wins championships, and it does, a defensive stalwart at PF like Horford could be abig thing. And like all great centers, Cousins will need that sidekick/enforcer at some point. But the real issue is money. We have not only 1 max player coming up in future years, but could have 2. Once you get that sort fo structure, paying $12mil a year for anybody else becomes borderline untenable. At the very least they have to absolutely be your #3 option in that case, because then there really is no money for anybody else except roleplayers.

 

[kingsboi]

I hope some of you are not counting out JT just yet. He still is young as is Horford, and Horford is obviously the more polished and better player, but...I still want to see what JT can provide for us and I am sure we will figure out sooner rather than later if he is starter material for us or just suited for a 6th man energy type big.

 

[beb0p]

The Hawks are too deep in the win-now mode to let Horford walk. They pretty much have to re-sign big Al to justify the other expensive signings; my guess is Horford and the Hawks will reach an agreement eventually and Horford will get his $12 millions a year or something close to it.

If the Hawks' plan to eventually replace Bibby in the starting lineup with Jeff Teague and Jamal Crawford in the rotation with his namestake Jordan works out as planned, and then they trade Bibby for expiring and let Crawford walk; they will have a little breathing room to absorb Big Al's contract; maybe even make it a back-loaded contract. It's not an all-or-nothing deal, there is room here for the Hawks to play around with the numbers and make things fit.

 

[gunks]

I like JT.

Horford is the better player, but I think the gap in talent is a lot smaller than the gap in what each guy will command contract wise. I admit I'm a bit of a JT homer (he won me over by being our first big to actually rebound since Webb), but I think this year he can make that jump to a 15/10/1blk PF for us (mpg permitting). Granted, Horford's D is way better than JTs, but... I'm optimistic that Whiteside can eventually be that defense playing sidekick to Cuz. Definately a leap of faith at this point but uh..In Petrie I trust

 

[UK_King]

You'd rather have a SF?

If defense wins championships, and it does, a defensive stalwart at PF like Horford could be abig thing. And like all great centers, Cousins will need that sidekick/enforcer at some point. But the real issue is money. We have not only 1 max player coming up in future years, but could have 2. Once you get that sort fo structure, paying $12mil a year for anybody else becomes borderline untenable. At the very least they have to absolutely be your #3 option in that case, because then there really is no money for anybody else except roleplayers.

Smith is a SF but can play PF; and anyway he's one of the best shot blockers in the league; 1000 career blocks already. Also contributes 15/16 points and 8 boards a game. Just think he's a quality player.

Watched the Hawks last night and they were sluggish as hell (whats new) but Jordan Crawford was fantastic. This guy will probably surprise a few people if he gets good minutes.

 

[Kingster]

You could be right. Johnson played well for them during the season however, despite not playing well in the playoffs. Personally I think they overpaid, but someone would have offered him just as much. Like the Knicks, who had the money to spend, and were desperate to show the fans improvement. The problem that the Hawks have is that their total salaries are at just over 69 mil for this coming season. Putting them into the luxury tax. The only players coming off the books at the end of next season that have significant salaries, are Horford, Bibby, and Jamal Crawford. Bibby would probably be the most expendable because of his age. But resigning even one of them would put them over the cap, and two of them would probably put them in luxury tax range again. Of course a lot of this speculation is based on the old CBA.

As for the Kings. If we were to let Dalembert walk, and perhaps Landry as well, we would be around 33 mil under the cap. So signing Horford would certainlly be a possiblilty. But as Bricky says, it would probably take somewhere around 12 mil a year. I'll admit that the idea of Horford and Cousins starting in the frontcourt, with Thompson and Whiteside as backups is an inticing thought. It would allow Horford to play his natural position of PF. How they'd all fit together is another matter.

Right now the Hawks are playing lowball with Horford and Crawford, who I like by the way, and who played very well for them last year. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

So if we had $23 mill under the cap and Horford would cost $12 mill, why not? I'd like to know how many power forwards are better than Horford. Maybe none. Cousins/Horford/Whiteside sounds good to me.

 

[asakkings]

Horford would be a perfect compliment to Reke/Cousins. He can hit a midrange jumper with somewhat consistency and is already one of the best defenders/rebounders in the game. Lineup of Cousins/Horford/JT/Whiteside would be pretty beastly for years.

 

[bajaden]

So if we had $23 mill under the cap and Horford would cost $12 mill, why not? I'd like to know how many power forwards are better than Horford. Maybe none. Cousins/Horford/Whiteside sounds good to me.

I went back and looked at the Kings salary situation. Used Shamsports this time as I've found it to be one of the most accurate. According to Shamsports the Kings will have more money under the cap than anyother team. Now understand, thats as it stands today. Some of that could change between now and the next freeagency period. But as of now, if the Kings were to relinquish their rights to both Dalembert and Landry, and I'm talking about Bird rights because both are unrestricted freeagents, the Kings total salaries would be 28.1 mil. That would also include letting all the one year contacts signed this year walk as well.

 

[bajaden]

The Hawks are too deep in the win-now mode to let Horford walk. They pretty much have to re-sign big Al to justify the other expensive signings; my guess is Horford and the Hawks will reach an agreement eventually and Horford will get his $12 millions a year or something close to it.

If the Hawks' plan to eventually replace Bibby in the starting lineup with Jeff Teague and Jamal Crawford in the rotation with his namestake Jordan works out as planned, and then they trade Bibby for expiring and let Crawford walk; they will have a little breathing room to absorb Big Al's contract; maybe even make it a back-loaded contract. It's not an all-or-nothing deal, there is room here for the Hawks to play around with the numbers and make things fit.

There's no doubt that the Hawks will have the last say in where Horford plays since he's a restricted freeagent. But the team Has a big payroll and only has two big salaries coming off the books at the end of the season. One of those being Horford. If your going to trade Bibby for an expiring contract, you need to do it this season, because the following season he's an expiring contract, so you gain nothing from trading an expiring contract for another expiring contract. If the Hawks just let Jamal Crawford walk that would put their salaries at 53.2 mil. Barely under the current cap. Resign Horford for 12 mil and your back up to 65 mil, and back into luxury tax territory.

They may go ahead and do it, but they wouldn't have much flexability for the future. Its also easy to say just let Jamal Crawford walk, but he was an important player for the Hawks last year, averaging 18 pts a game. There were a lot of games they wouldn't have won without Crawford. The Hawks would have almost all their money tied up in four players. Marvin Williams, Josh Smith, Joe Johnson, and Al Horford. All very good players, but none are superstars.

Replacing Bibby with Teague would be a step down in my opinion. At least in the short term. The eastern division has gotten tougher, and the Hawks aren't going to improve. With the loss of Crawford, and no money under the cap to do much, I don't see any championships in their future. I think your looking at a team that has leveled out, with little room to improve. Not exactly where you want to be. Very good, but with little chance to be good enough. Joe Johnson was a big mistake in my opinion...

 

[Kingster]

I went back and looked at the Kings salary situation. Used Shamsports this time as I've found it to be one of the most accurate. According to Shamsports the Kings will have more money under the cap than anyother team. Now understand, thats as it stands today. Some of that could change between now and the next freeagency period. But as of now, if the Kings were to relinquish their rights to both Dalembert and Landry, and I'm talking about Bird rights because both are unrestricted freeagents, the Kings total salaries would be 28.1 mil. That would also include letting all the one year contacts signed this year walk as well.

I don't think the Kings management would bat an eyelash about giving up Landry and Dalembert to get Horford. It's almost obscene how much they covet that guy. As Westphal said: "Competitiveness is a skill." Well, Horford is very, very skilled in that regard. Some NBA players (maybe many) his size would whine about playing center, even make waves with the coach, or ask to be traded. This guy just continues to battle guys bigger than him. That gives him mega points in my book.

 

[bajaden]

I don't think the Kings management would bat an eyelash about giving up Landry and Dalembert to get Horford. It's almost obscene how much they covet that guy. As Westphal said: "Competitiveness is a skill." Well, Horford is very, very skilled in that regard. Some NBA players (maybe many) his size would whine about playing center, even make waves with the coach, or ask to be traded. This guy just continues to battle guys bigger than him. That gives him mega points in my book.

No argument from me. I'd love to have Horford. There aren't many guys on the freeagent list that I'd spend 12 mil on, but he would be one of them.

 

[Bricklayer]

Again, here is the issue. Under the current salary structure (the future may change obviously, but the basic percentages are unlikely to0:

Reke $15mil
Cousins $15mil (potentially)
Horford $12mil
entire rest of the roster (10 players min) = $20mil or so before you hit the luxury tax. Average of $2mil a player.

When you get the double max/superstar type thing going, you are in great position to contend, but you are also really scraping the barrel financially. You have to be comfortable with Horford as your #3, perhaps one $4mil type player to provide a little outside shooting or scoring punch, and then a whole bunch of roleplayers, and not elite roleplayers either.

Now obviously if you can time it right, if your owners are suddenly financially flush again, and if the new rules still allow it, you can go ahead and resign your own guys up above the tax threshhold and keep the team together at a cost of $80mil or so (+$20mil in lux tax payments). But that's hard to cout on.

 

[NME]

If we keep either Dalembert or Landry you're probably talking at least $8 million anyway for a one-way player and not that much extra to spend on the rest of the roster. Playing alongside an elite lead guard and two monster bigs, the right type of bargain roleplayer suddenly looks a lot better.

 

[DeMoN]

So if we had $23 mill under the cap and Horford would cost $12 mill, why not? I'd like to know how many power forwards are better than Horford. Maybe none. Cousins/Horford/Whiteside sounds good to me.

Most likely he will want a long contract. If Cousins and Evans both want max contracts would you be ok with letting them walk, not affording them because of a 12+ million contract for Harford?

 

[Section 101]

It's really pointless at this point to even discuss it. We have no clue what the new CBA will bring as far as salaries or even being a FA.

 

[Prince_XY]

Again, here is the issue. Under the current salary structure (the future may change obviously, but the basic percentages are unlikely to0:

Reke $15mil
Cousins $15mil (potentially)
Horford $12mil
entire rest of the roster (10 players min) = $20mil or so before you hit the luxury tax. Average of $2mil a player.

When you get the double max/superstar type thing going, you are in great position to contend, but you are also really scraping the barrel financially. You have to be comfortable with Horford as your #3, perhaps one $4mil type player to provide a little outside shooting or scoring punch, and then a whole bunch of roleplayers, and not elite roleplayers either.

Now obviously if you can time it right...........

Good post. It kind of support one of my theories on why some of our player's development seems like being delayed by the coaching staff. I can just imagine the financial problem it will bring the stingy Kings if both Greene and Casspi turn into superstud role players as soon as next year. .....

 

[Big Cuz 15]

Joe Johnson was a monumental mistake in my opinion...

i fixed it they should have let him go and get a trade exception. the guy is not a game changer and is being paid like one.

 

[Kingster]

Again, here is the issue. Under the current salary structure (the future may change obviously, but the basic percentages are unlikely to0:

Reke $15mil
Cousins $15mil (potentially)
Horford $12mil
entire rest of the roster (10 players min) = $20mil or so before you hit the luxury tax. Average of $2mil a player.

When you get the double max/superstar type thing going, you are in great position to contend, but you are also really scraping the barrel financially. You have to be comfortable with Horford as your #3, perhaps one $4mil type player to provide a little outside shooting or scoring punch, and then a whole bunch of roleplayers, and not elite roleplayers either.

Now obviously if you can time it right, if your owners are suddenly financially flush again, and if the new rules still allow it, you can go ahead and resign your own guys up above the tax threshhold and keep the team together at a cost of $80mil or so (+$20mil in lux tax payments). But that's hard to cout on.

You don't need to average out the $20 mill over ten players. You need five other key players for an eight man rotation. So if you want to average, maybe $3.5/player for the five guys with the minimum for the remaining five guys. Or you pay a couple of guys $6 mill apiece and the other three guys $1.8 mill.

Three does appear to be the magic number: Garnett, Pierce, Allen; Kobe, Gasol, Odom; LBJ, Wade, Bosh (Riley seems to think three will do it). Utah with two players - Malone and Stockton - was never enough, and oh so frustrating for Utah fans.

 

[bajaden]

You don't need to average out the $20 mill over ten players. You need five other key players for an eight man rotation. So if you want to average, maybe $3.5/player for the five guys with the minimum for the remaining five guys. Or you pay a couple of guys $6 mill apiece and the other three guys $1.8 mill.

Three does appear to be the magic number: Garnett, Pierce, Allen; Kobe, Gasol, Odom; LBJ, Wade, Bosh (Riley seems to think three will do it). Utah with two players - Malone and Stockton - was never enough, and oh so frustrating for Utah fans.

Well they did sort of have a big three when they had Jeff Hornacek on the team. And thats when they were at their best. Unfortuantely that seemed to coinside with some of the greatest teams in the NBA. Just bad luck to come along at the wrong time.

 

[fnordius]

Well they did sort of have a big three when they had Jeff Hornacek on the team. And thats when they were at their best. Unfortuantely that seemed to coinside with some of the greatest teams in the NBA. Just bad luck to come along at the wrong time.

And then there were a couple of our old nemeses:
1) Kobe, half of Shaq, and the other half of Shaq
2) MJ, Scottie Pippen, and sometimes a fairly clear #3, but usually not

I think it's pretty clear that one guy can't carry a team into the finals, but I don't think there's a clear answer as to how many it will take.