A year wasted thanks to Monte.
- Thread starter nikefutbolero
- Start date
I fixed it for you. As much as I loved Petrie and our glory years, we also need to keep the proper perspective. For as wonderful as those years were, we made it to exactly one WCF. Think about that- we had the best team in the NBA for at least two seasons (2002 and 2003), were one of the very top teams in 2004, and had a good young team seeded in the top 4 in 2001, and our results were WCF (2002) and 3x Western Conference Semifinals (2001, 2003, 2004). That is a pretty poor return.
You can have an amazing, beloved team that is widely recognized as the best in the league and not win anything, or even really come close. The NBA is hard and sometimes it takes time for good teams to become great. And that "great" team might not do much. In fact, that "young team" in 2001 that got swept was already in year 3 of a rebuild, kind of how this current team is in year three of our rebuild around Domas and Fox. I think this team is probably still some tweaks away from being a major contender, but that doesn't mean there isn't progress and improvement. Hoping that we can take a meaningful step into the top 4-6 of the Western Conference this year and then continue to build into next year.
You can have an amazing, beloved team that is widely recognized as the best in the league and not win anything, or even really come close. The NBA is hard and sometimes it takes time for good teams to become great. And that "great" team might not do much. In fact, that "young team" in 2001 that got swept was already in year 3 of a rebuild, kind of how this current team is in year three of our rebuild around Domas and Fox. I think this team is probably still some tweaks away from being a major contender, but that doesn't mean there isn't progress and improvement. Hoping that we can take a meaningful step into the top 4-6 of the Western Conference this year and then continue to build into next year.
He isn’t a great GM. List the moves he has made in hindsight you would repeat.
1) drafting Haliburton.
2) Bagley trade for Lyles
now list his moves you would avoid
1) Davion Draft
2) Huerter Trade
3) Tillman for Woodard trade
4) Kenyon Martin Jr for cash trade 2021 2nd
5) Corey Joseph 2nd for Delon Wright 2nd
6) Chris Duarte for 2 2nds
7) Richaun Holmes and Prosper for cash
1) drafting Haliburton.
2) Bagley trade for Lyles
now list his moves you would avoid
1) Davion Draft
2) Huerter Trade
3) Tillman for Woodard trade
4) Kenyon Martin Jr for cash trade 2021 2nd
5) Corey Joseph 2nd for Delon Wright 2nd
6) Chris Duarte for 2 2nds
7) Richaun Holmes and Prosper for cash
Last edited:
I think I literally flipped my mind on this after last night.
I went into this year basically thinking him and Brown were safe, no matter what. I think that was with the assumption though that we'd stay competitive for the playoffs and either make the play-in or a playoff series. Or even if we got knocked out, it was another 45 win season.
We're really on the verge of this thing toppling over I think though. Like a Philly Sixers sort of lost season. It's hard to see how this team starts winning games until they figure out the massive problem they have at the 3pt line, on both ends of the court.
I went into this year basically thinking him and Brown were safe, no matter what. I think that was with the assumption though that we'd stay competitive for the playoffs and either make the play-in or a playoff series. Or even if we got knocked out, it was another 45 win season.
We're really on the verge of this thing toppling over I think though. Like a Philly Sixers sort of lost season. It's hard to see how this team starts winning games until they figure out the massive problem they have at the 3pt line, on both ends of the court.
You missed several:
3) Haliburton trade for Sabonis
4) Keegan draft
5) DeRozan S&T
6) Monk signing
7) Monk re-signing
8) Keon Ellis UDFA
9) Brown hire
10) Holmes salary dump
We'll have to see on the Carter draft.
Of all the things you list as negatives, only the Davion draft is one I look back at and figure that there was an obvious better pathway. The Huerter trade cost us a first but got us a good player who started for 2+ years and was a key part of getting to the playoffs. The rest that you list is tiny stuff, shuffling the deck chairs at the back of the rotation, the kind of stuff that every team does and mostly goes unnoticed. Like, you've listed passing on a player who has averaged 2.7 PPG over his career and is below average in all his advanced stats AND getting a huge salary dump in the process as a BAD thing? If you count Prosper's basically wasted salary and Richaun's player option that's something like $38M saved. That should 100% be on the "good" list.
So I'm looking at 10 good to very good moves compared to 1 bad move and a bunch of stuff that is pretty neutral and/or small stuff. I'm talking myself into this Monte guy!
Edited to add Keegan draft after I stupidly overlooked it the first time. Yikes!
3) Haliburton trade for Sabonis
4) Keegan draft
5) DeRozan S&T
6) Monk signing
7) Monk re-signing
8) Keon Ellis UDFA
9) Brown hire
10) Holmes salary dump
We'll have to see on the Carter draft.
Of all the things you list as negatives, only the Davion draft is one I look back at and figure that there was an obvious better pathway. The Huerter trade cost us a first but got us a good player who started for 2+ years and was a key part of getting to the playoffs. The rest that you list is tiny stuff, shuffling the deck chairs at the back of the rotation, the kind of stuff that every team does and mostly goes unnoticed. Like, you've listed passing on a player who has averaged 2.7 PPG over his career and is below average in all his advanced stats AND getting a huge salary dump in the process as a BAD thing? If you count Prosper's basically wasted salary and Richaun's player option that's something like $38M saved. That should 100% be on the "good" list.
So I'm looking at 10 good to very good moves compared to 1 bad move and a bunch of stuff that is pretty neutral and/or small stuff. I'm talking myself into this Monte guy!
Edited to add Keegan draft after I stupidly overlooked it the first time. Yikes!
Last edited:
IMO you don’t dump your GM and coach after two straight years of winning basketball. 2 out of the 10 total winning seasons you’ve had as a franchise don’t forget.
Having said that Monte does need to make a move at the deadline. He needs to make a deal not “have interest” I said it in the trade thread but I hope he targets a duo as I think we are two forward/bigs away. I gave Time Lord/Murray Kessler/Collins DFS/ Sharpe as examples.
If we don’t show massive improvement at years end then ownership will have to decide if it’s a faulty build out, coaching that isn’t maximizing the players or the team is just short on talent. If it’s the build out, Monte is fired, if it’s underperformance Brown is fired and if it’s the latter Fox asks for a trade and we move him for a couple young player and picks. I don’t want any of them to happen.
Having said that Monte does need to make a move at the deadline. He needs to make a deal not “have interest” I said it in the trade thread but I hope he targets a duo as I think we are two forward/bigs away. I gave Time Lord/Murray Kessler/Collins DFS/ Sharpe as examples.
If we don’t show massive improvement at years end then ownership will have to decide if it’s a faulty build out, coaching that isn’t maximizing the players or the team is just short on talent. If it’s the build out, Monte is fired, if it’s underperformance Brown is fired and if it’s the latter Fox asks for a trade and we move him for a couple young player and picks. I don’t want any of them to happen.
so I left two items off on purpose.
on Keegan. If you went back with hindsight I don’t think you draft Keegan. Especially given how he is shooting this year. Banchero and Holmgren stay where they are. Williams moves up. I’m not saying Keegan is a bad pick which is why I didn’t list it but in hindsight he doesn’t go 4th in that draft.
On Sabonis. I think many of our problems trace back to Sabonis defensive limitations. We have discussed it previously but a number of good basketball people are convinced you cannot win with him at a high level. People I know think we could have and should have gotten a good wing.
I disagree on the Holmes salary dump. I thought it was a horrible move. It was done to resign a guy to a max contract who has not shown he can lead you to the playoffs. In fact, if you look at this year has pretty much proven he can’t.
if Keegan and Sabonis were such good moves we would not be sitting in 12th in west 2 games under 500.
on Keegan. If you went back with hindsight I don’t think you draft Keegan. Especially given how he is shooting this year. Banchero and Holmgren stay where they are. Williams moves up. I’m not saying Keegan is a bad pick which is why I didn’t list it but in hindsight he doesn’t go 4th in that draft.
On Sabonis. I think many of our problems trace back to Sabonis defensive limitations. We have discussed it previously but a number of good basketball people are convinced you cannot win with him at a high level. People I know think we could have and should have gotten a good wing.
I disagree on the Holmes salary dump. I thought it was a horrible move. It was done to resign a guy to a max contract who has not shown he can lead you to the playoffs. In fact, if you look at this year has pretty much proven he can’t.
if Keegan and Sabonis were such good moves we would not be sitting in 12th in west 2 games under 500.
i dont think moves like this really changes much for this team. Are they really going to be anything close to contenders if they get any of those guys? I highly doubt it. two of the best players on that list would have to come off the bench behind Sabonis and would probably cost multiple 1sts. I really hope they dont trade the future for a bench player.
They are all difference makers on the defensive end which is what we need. We have three all star level players, a sixth man of the year type and an ascending young player plus a 2 way guard that everyone is sleeping on (Carter). What exactly are we waiting for? Giannis or Luka are not walking through that door. Maximize the talent you have and see what happens and worry about a rebuild later.
Walkers a difference maker, but how many mpg would he be getting 10-15?(id love him as a starting C btw)
Time Lords injured 50% of every season. John Collins isnt a good defender despite what his stocks tell you.
The key would be to find someone that can play beside Domas and that player probably has to be a tier or two higher then anyone on that list to sacrifice the future for and to actually make any noise in the conferance.. Just my imo tho. Those future picks are probably going to be high so it better be worth it.
Time Lords injured 50% of every season. John Collins isnt a good defender despite what his stocks tell you.
The key would be to find someone that can play beside Domas and that player probably has to be a tier or two higher then anyone on that list to sacrifice the future for and to actually make any noise in the conferance.. Just my imo tho. Those future picks are probably going to be high so it better be worth it.
Yeh there is risk in all of those combos. The Collins Kessler trade is interesting to me because you get a defensive anchor that you can use in certain matchups ( could even slide Domas over to the 4 for short stretches) and then you get a bouncy 4 who can be a lob threat for Monk, plays physical and rebounds and can shoot it (Collins).
As far as finding a big 4 that can start next to Domas, that’s probably a tough ask. There just aren’t many long athletic 4s that can shoot available in trade. IMO, Carter is the likely future starting two so imagine something like this:
Fox Monk
Carter Ellis
Deebo ____
Keegs Collins
Domas Kessler
Or
Fox Monk
Carter Ellis
Deebo
Keegan Kris
Domas Time Lord
I also like guys like Santi Aldama but if he is available it would be in the offseason.
As far as finding a big 4 that can start next to Domas, that’s probably a tough ask. There just aren’t many long athletic 4s that can shoot available in trade. IMO, Carter is the likely future starting two so imagine something like this:
Fox Monk
Carter Ellis
Deebo ____
Keegs Collins
Domas Kessler
Or
Fox Monk
Carter Ellis
Deebo
Keegan Kris
Domas Time Lord
I also like guys like Santi Aldama but if he is available it would be in the offseason.
Yeh it’s easy to forget we were 8-6 a little over a week ago haha. We were a top 7 or 8 offense and top 13 defense despite the awful shooting and 3 point defense. Unfortunately those things coupled with the injuries finally caught up to us.
My goal is for us to be 6-4 over our next 10 games. Get back to .500 and then start working the phones looking for the things we need.