A year wasted thanks to Monte.

#31
But the question is: What decision is a poor decision?

The answer to that question, particularly as it concerns the Kings' (undisclosed) negotiations and ultimate inaction at the trade deadline, is quite complicated. We don't know what offers were on the table. We don't know how those offers would have impacted the team with respect to salary and draft picks down the road - a question that is even more pertinent now than ever before with the implementation of the very punitive two-apron system. It's not entirely clear that there were any franchise-changing pieces available on the market. Ultimately it appears that we decided to stop our pursuit of Siakam, probably the nearest thing to a franchise-changing piece, because he was not willing to commit to staying in Sacramento beyond this season. The other players we were rumored to be after - for instance Kuzma and Grant - seem to me (and at least some others here) to be lateral moves at best with fairly heavy financial penalties.

One can certainly look at it this way: We have a young duo (Fox, Sabonis) that is capable of anchoring a championship-level basketball team, and is locked up long term (Sabonis 4 more years/Fox 2 more years and likely to stick around), and has a long window remaining (3+ years easily). We have a very exciting and still developing third piece (Murray) also locked up for 2 more years and due to RFA lockable for longer. And we have a good core of support pieces, one of whom (Monk) needs to be re-signed and others that give us good flexibility (talent and capwise) to keep or use as trade bait to better support our top players (support = Huerter, Barnes, Lyles, Vezenkov, and to be honest, now that he's signed to a very team-friendly contract, potentially Ellis). But, on the whole, we don't have the experience to get it done yet. We're a bit young, we're inconsistent, we lack focus, we're only 1.5 years into our current construction, and by any reasonable account, we're not ready to win it all. So, if we blow our future flexibility on a win-now scheme, trying to integrate a new player into an already-green team while shortening our window, is that a good decision, or a poor one? If our own history is any indication, the Webber/Peja/Divac Kings weren't nearly ready to win in year 2, had nothing but an outside chance in year 3, and were then title favorites in years 4 and 5. Those teams only changed out one core piece (the JWill/Bibby trade, and that was a clear upgrade). Patience has worked before. Maybe patience is actually the good decision here.
I'd argue it's the only route a small-market team has.

The big market teams can be short-sighted and spam win-now move after win-now move because they know they'll always be a player to reload in FA or through trade whenever a star wants out. Kings don't have that luxury.

Den and MIL have showed the blueprint in recent years on how to do this as a small-market team. We don't have a caliber of player like Jokic/Giannis but we do have 2 guys that are just a tier below. Make good decisions around them, like those teams did around their franchise guys and we'll have a fighting chance to build this thing into a contender over the next 3 years.
 
#32
Sure, if we live in a super min-max fantasy world.

Reality is, very few teams actually have a chance to win a title or win a super bowl. 49ers pretty much had everything line up this year for them and a bunch of injuries in the Super Bowl+Pat Mahomes just were too much to overcome. I mean, LeBron James went to 8 straight finals for goodness sake. How is the rest of the league supposed to compete with that?

Reality with this Kings squad is without that top 5 guy, it's going to be extremely difficult to get over that hurdle. I think if Fox/Domas are rolling at the right time, they're talented enough to make up a top 5 player gap. But they have to be damn near perfect. Keegan is showing outrageously good potential, but where does he top out at? Is he MPJ with defense? Or does he get to that Paul George/Kawhi Leonard level?

All that said, this has easily been the most enjoyable season and a half of Kings basketball since I started being a fan. I was very young during the glory years and really didn't get to enjoy them as much as I would have liked. It's just way more fun rooting for a good team and a fun team that plays our brand of basketball. Even if we never fully ascend to a title contender, I'll still enjoy these seasons way more than checking out of the year by game 50 and wondering which top 6 pick will save us the following year.
10 likes for this post, especially the last paragraph. I couldn't agree more.

And I say that as a fan spurned by the GM4 and GM6 travesties in 2002, forever feeling like we had our title stolen from us. It's a bitter pill to swallow even to this day. I don't believe I'm speaking out of turn in saying that all that lived through that era wants this franchise to win as much as anyone, so having a patient or positive attitude ain't the easiest thing.

Lastly, I'm sorry to hear that you didn't get to enjoy that era and that team to its fullest. Hearing stories like that make me want this franchise to reach that level again even more -- so fans like you can finally be rewarded for your loyal fandom.

I was 14 when the KINGS moved to SAC and fell for the NBA and KINGS hard. From 1986 - 1996 all KINGS fans endured some of the worst basketball ever. Including a 1-40 road record in 1990/91 IIRC. That made the 96 playoffs then the 1998-2006 era mean a helluva lot more.

I'm sure the same will be true again if/when this franchise gets it figured out.
 
#33
I will never understand this mentality.

Reason being is it should make you value the rare opportunities to win, and want them to not be squandered by poor decisions instead of the "just be thankful for what you get".
You can be in favor of both, I don’t think the move to take advantage of the opportunity to “win” (be in the title picture) is there right now. Monte has to be patient because his next big move will be his last one in terms of constructing this core. We have way more flexibility to trade for a big piece in the off-season if we make the Playoffs and give up the 2024 pick, I think that’s when Monte will strike. None if the available players would have made us title contender ms right now anyways.
 
#34
I had season tickets for those lean 80’s and 90’s teams but they where my team, the Kings.
Moved out of California in 98 so I have not had the chance to witness those playoff teams and enjoyed last year’s playoffs.

I like many have wanted to see a upgrade to the starting lineup but also did not want to go backwards. Well we stood pat the last 2 years of trade deadlines and the off season with a change.
I get the letting the team get more time together but after them having over 100 games together this is what we have.

I feel we will not get better without improving the starting 5. Bringing in more backups that can actually contribute should be a priority at this point in the season. I see lyles and monk the only ones that really contribute to the second 5.

we will see if we are in a playin position or a top 6 team in the west but I will not be happy if we finish 9th or worse after staying put.
 
#35
It's ok.. it's only one year. Imagine how many years divic wasted for not drafting Luka Doncic when he was there for the taking. I'd say at minimum 20 years. Come on Kings fans.. we've been through worse
 
#36
I'd argue it's the only route a small-market team has.

The big market teams can be short-sighted and spam win-now move after win-now move because they know they'll always be a player to reload in FA or through trade whenever a star wants out. Kings don't have that luxury.

Den and MIL have showed the blueprint in recent years on how to do this as a small-market team. We don't have a caliber of player like Jokic/Giannis but we do have 2 guys that are just a tier below. Make good decisions around them, like those teams did around their franchise guys and we'll have a fighting chance to build this thing into a contender over the next 3 years.
I think that Monte's banking on Keegan becoming that future #1 or #2. Seeing that we are not a FA destination, just about the only way we become a perennial Championship title contender is for Keegan to make the leap over Fox or Sabonis (or both) to become the clear #1 or #2 option. It may take a year or 2 more, but if Keegan can make that leap, we will be in the mix for championships for many years.
 
#37
You can be in favor of both, I don’t think the move to take advantage of the opportunity to “win” (be in the title picture) is there right now. Monte has to be patient because his next big move will be his last one in terms of constructing this core. We have way more flexibility to trade for a big piece in the off-season if we make the Playoffs and give up the 2024 pick, I think that’s when Monte will strike. None if the available players would have made us title contender ms right now anyways.
We don't need a core. We need role players. The Kings core of Webber, Divac, and Peja was there. The surrounding players all changed year in year out. We have Sabonis, Fox, and Keegs.

There were players to be had to move the pieces around and we aren't getting any better. Opportunities to build around the core are thinning and the cap situation isn't good to sign a FA. Trading is the only way to improve this team at this point and the FO is failing to do their jobs.
 
#38
We don't need a core. We need role players. The Kings core of Webber, Divac, and Peja was there. The surrounding players all changed year in year out. We have Sabonis, Fox, and Keegs.

There were players to be had to move the pieces around and we aren't getting any better. Opportunities to build around the core are thinning and the cap situation isn't good to sign a FA. Trading is the only way to improve this team at this point and the FO is failing to do their jobs.
Only if the Kings are set at the top of their talent pool. Right now the onus is on whoever is that third guy.
 

hrdboild

Hall of Famer
#39
We don't need a core. We need role players. The Kings core of Webber, Divac, and Peja was there. The surrounding players all changed year in year out. We have Sabonis, Fox, and Keegs.

There were players to be had to move the pieces around and we aren't getting any better. Opportunities to build around the core are thinning and the cap situation isn't good to sign a FA. Trading is the only way to improve this team at this point and the FO is failing to do their jobs.
Fox, Sabonis, Monk and Murray are the offense. Just replace everyone else with defenders and we win tonight's Phoenix game and probably the Detroit and OKC games too. Trading baskets every time down the floor and then losing on ref related shenanigans has gotten old fast.
 
#40
Fox, Sabonis, Monk and Murray are the offense. Just replace everyone else with defenders and we win tonight's Phoenix game and probably the Detroit and OKC games too. Trading baskets every time down the floor and then losing on ref related shenanigans has gotten old fast.
This is exactly what I was just about to type. I am so tired of Brown playing favorites when we have good defensive players on the bench. I just don't get it. You can't put this all on Monte. That and Browns small ball lineup tonight in the fourth was horrible.
 
#41
Fox, Sabonis, Monk and Murray are the offense. Just replace everyone else with defenders and we win tonight's Phoenix game and probably the Detroit and OKC games too. Trading baskets every time down the floor and then losing on ref related shenanigans has gotten old fast.
Having some better defenders would have helped but in the end that big shot making by Durant and Book sealed the deal. They are pretty much unguardable when they have it going. We had Kessler on Durant earlier and he was getting absolutely killed.

I can’t recall if you watch much college ball but check out Ryan Dunn from Virginia. That is the guy we need. Game changing defense. If we miss the playoffs he would be in our range. If we make it, find a way to trade for him.
 
#42
This is exactly what I was just about to type. I am so tired of Brown playing favorites when we have good defensive players on the bench. I just don't get it. You can't put this all on Monte. That and Browns small ball lineup tonight in the fourth was horrible.
We've been saying all year Barnes needs to be parked on the bench but he has 3-4 good games and people think that makes up for him disappearing all season. Lyles, Murray, Sasha need to be the forward rotation. They consistently out produce him in rebounds and defensively.
 

hrdboild

Hall of Famer
#43
Having some better defenders would have helped but in the end that big shot making by Durant and Book sealed the deal. They are pretty much unguardable when they have it going. We had Kessler on Durant earlier and he was getting absolutely killed.

I can’t recall if you watch much college ball but check out Ryan Dunn from Virginia. That is the guy we need. Game changing defense. If we miss the playoffs he would be in our range. If we make it, find a way to trade for him.
It's definitely really hard to guard stars in the NBA right now with the way the game is called. These guys are just gifted free throws when they miss even if there's little or no contact from the defender. But if we manage to play a full 48 minutes of defense and hold our opponents to below average shooting we would be giving up about 10-15 less points every game and it shouldn't be close enough for these guys to go hero-mode and win the game.

I used to watch a lot of college ball. I just don't have the time for it these days. We most likely don't have a first round pick this year but in general I'd rather we draft defenders than scorers. That's what I'm hoping for in the draft every year.
 
#44
This fan base over-reacts to every bad game and any sort of adversity. I’m just as guilty of it, so I pretend like we’re a lottery team and just watch Domas do his thing. It’s not time to panic we have most of our assets going forward and I think we’re pretty close. The commitment to defense has done in many a coach around her Jagger, Malone. Let’s act like we’ve been here before and handle the swings. We’ve got the Clippers tonight and honestly I’m not expecting a win. Will be thrilled if they prove me wrong but not expecting it.
 
#45
This fan base over-reacts to every bad game and any sort of adversity. I’m just as guilty of it, so I pretend like we’re a lottery team and just watch Domas do his thing. It’s not time to panic we have most of our assets going forward and I think we’re pretty close. The commitment to defense has done in many a coach around her Jagger, Malone. Let’s act like we’ve been here before and handle the swings. We’ve got the Clippers tonight and honestly I’m not expecting a win. Will be thrilled if they prove me wrong but not expecting it.
Love this post! And hey, the Kings got it done. More special wins incoming, i suspect. :cool:
 
#46
This fan base over-reacts to every bad game and any sort of adversity. I’m just as guilty of it, so I pretend like we’re a lottery team and just watch Domas do his thing. It’s not time to panic we have most of our assets going forward and I think we’re pretty close. The commitment to defense has done in many a coach around her Jagger, Malone. Let’s act like we’ve been here before and handle the swings. We’ve got the Clippers tonight and honestly I’m not expecting a win. Will be thrilled if they prove me wrong but not expecting it.
It’s some of the fan base……not everyone overreacts.
 
#48
He took a gamble thinking this same roster would compete with the big guns this year and boy was he wrong. We all knew we needed to make a splash in the off-season and all he did was resign an aging vet that disappeared in the playoffs. A whole year wasted due to his lack of action. We are a play-in team that could miss the playoffs. What a joke and waste of a year.
Why do you think the team wouldn't get better? It was a new team pretty much. Look at what Vlade, and Webber era did.. They didn't even get out of the first round until their third year together. That third year they moved from Nick Anderson to Christie so I can see that there were some changes made, but after year two, unless you want to talk about the Peja starting over Corliss, and getting Anderson to replace TAW. After getting swept by the Lakers in the 3rd year of making the playoffs (in round 2) they replaced Williams with Bibby, and then made Western Conference Finals, and the two years after that made the second round and pushed to 7 with Minnesota, and 6 when Webber was injured the year after the WCF.

What I expect to happen this year is that if we are 1 and done again I can see us replacing Barnes and Huerter. Or Starting Monk if we can get him back, and trading Huerter for a couple bench guys. Barnes would be replaced by Lyles or something of the sort.
 
#49
I didn't mind monte bringing back barnes and lyles, Just wish barnes contract was shorter.. perhaps 2 years instead of 3 or if he's getting 3 years he should have been paid less.. at around 15 million. Lyles was also overpaid at 8 million when he's more of a 5 million dollar player, but on the positive side at least it's only for 2 years for lyles. Both the guys production just haven't lived up to their contract this season. It's not the end of the world, but the kings do lose a little bit of flexibility to make future changes.
 
#50
I didn't mind monte bringing back barnes and lyles, Just wish barnes contract was shorter.. perhaps 2 years instead of 3 or if he's getting 3 years he should have been paid less.. at around 15 million. Lyles was also overpaid at 8 million when he's more of a 5 million dollar player, but on the positive side at least it's only for 2 years for lyles. Both the guys production just haven't lived up to their contract this season. It's not the end of the world, but the kings do lose a little bit of flexibility to make future changes.
Barnes’ contract was a slight overpay, especially with his sharp decline in athleticism/defense, but Lyles’ contract is fine imo. $8M/yr is very solid for a top 8 rotation player on a Playoff team. He can be inconsistent but so are a vast majority of bench players.
 
#51
Thankfully, Monte has patience and isn't super emotional like us fans. He makes decisions based on what he thinks is the long term health of the club, not short term fixes.

Now, of course he can be wrong. Davion looking like a failed pick, the TT trade, etc. But his decision making has lead us to our only 2 successful years in a 20 year span. That deserves some level of leash, unlike what a lot of fans are complaining about him for.
just a point. 15 year span. But I agree we have proven worse GM’s exist in Vlade and Pete.