He took a gamble thinking this same roster would compete with the big guns this year and boy was he wrong. We all knew we needed to make a splash in the off-season and all he did was resign an aging vet that disappeared in the playoffs. A whole year wasted due to his lack of action. We are a play-in team that could miss the playoffs. What a joke and waste of a year.
A year wasted thanks to Monte.
- Thread starter nikefutbolero
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There are so many variables to his job and performance that it is seemingly impossible to evaluate what he has done and will do. The complexities are so complicated that we can never know what direction he is forced to travel.
Last year he was a genius and EOY. Now he is trash? I can't get on that bandwagon without far, far more knowledge.
Last year he was a genius and EOY. Now he is trash? I can't get on that bandwagon without far, far more knowledge.
I'd much rather wait for Monte to make the "right" big move rather than just make a big move. Remember, it took him two years to make the right move for Sabonis to end our playoff drought. Our core is still young and signed (outside of Monk), and we have all our draft picks after this year. He made attempts to grab someone, but the price wasn't right.
Well last year he didn’t make any major moves at the trade deadline and the team went on their best run of the year.
Our hope should be that a couple of the players will step up and play above their mean.
I think Monte’s is banking on Keegan to take that next step and combine both his stellar offense and defense most every night. We really need to have Keegan take the next step for this team to make it out of the 1st round this year.
Our hope should be that a couple of the players will step up and play above their mean.
I think Monte’s is banking on Keegan to take that next step and combine both his stellar offense and defense most every night. We really need to have Keegan take the next step for this team to make it out of the 1st round this year.
For the most part I still give Monte the benefit of doubt.
It doesn’t appear to be a decent buyers market for most teams, although how much did that have to do with the quality of our available players.
In hindsight Monte messed up selecting Mitchell at 9, it didn’t make much sense then and even less now.
It doesn’t appear to be a decent buyers market for most teams, although how much did that have to do with the quality of our available players.
In hindsight Monte messed up selecting Mitchell at 9, it didn’t make much sense then and even less now.
Yes, there were a lot better options at 9 that would had made a lot more sense for the team needs.
But I think Monte may have already made up his mind that he was going to have to trade either Fox or Halliburton to get the players he needed to get this team to the playoffs. He was probably trying to get a defense stud PG to compliment whichever offensive point guard (Fox or Hali) he wound up keeping.
But I think Monte may have already made up his mind that he was going to have to trade either Fox or Halliburton to get the players he needed to get this team to the playoffs. He was probably trying to get a defense stud PG to compliment whichever offensive point guard (Fox or Hali) he wound up keeping.
Yeah- I think this is where I am too. A lot of the moves yesterday were moves for the sake of making moves, or giving up assets for minor improvements. I truly believe that with our assets and upcoming salaries, we have one big move left. You better make that move count. If you pay Monk, and ultimately pay Keegan, you are locking in on a 4 of Sabonis/Fox/Keegan/Monk. The meaningful assets you can trade are Barnes, Huerter, and the 2026, 2028, and 2030 draft picks. If you give up some of that matching salary or draft picks to make a smaller move, then you are throwing away the opportunity for the big move. We know that Monte has been hunting that big move (Beal, Siakam, Grant, Kuzma, Lavine). That seems to indicate that he knows this team needs one more big piece. Without that piece, we probably aren't winning a championship this year. So if you can't make that move, the options are wait until next year and try another big move or make immediate small moves to make you a bit better but concede the chance at the huge move. I'm guessing Monte wants to keep his powder dry for that big move.
Now this is not a full defense of Monte. The worst thing you can do is keep your powder dry for too long and see your window close. But given the contracts and age of Fox, Sabonis, and Keegan (and probably a good read he can resign Monk), Monte is probably betting he has a bit more time to find the big move.
That also doesn't mean Monte has been perfect. If Davion walks at the end of the year, not trading him for some picks will look bad. On the flip side, Davion has been playing better lately so maybe he succeeds as the backup PG the rest of the way. The Holmes trade looks bad in retrospect. Yeah, it cleaned our books and some clutter, but we now actually don't have a lot of "bad contracts" to add in salary match trades. Part of the reason we aren't in on buying some of these guys who went for second round picks is because we generally don't have bad matching salary to send away, so we actually have to send rotation players AND second round picks to make it work. Having the Holmes expiring would have been good at the deadline.
This actually reminds me a bit of our CWebb glory days. The first year we were good (the lockout year) was a huge surprise, it was our first time over .500 in ages, we had legit buzz, and we nearly won a playoff series against a proud veteran team. We didn't make many changes the second year, but instead let the core grow. It was only after a disappointing second year where we barely finished 8th, lost in the first round again, and had people thinking we stalled, that we made our big move in the offseason to get Bibby. I am guessing we make the playoffs this year, don't have nearly the buzz as last year, lose in the first round, and then use the offseason (when the Barnes and Huerter contracts both have a year less and the uncertainty around our pick to Atlanta is gone) to make our big final move.
Now this is not a full defense of Monte. The worst thing you can do is keep your powder dry for too long and see your window close. But given the contracts and age of Fox, Sabonis, and Keegan (and probably a good read he can resign Monk), Monte is probably betting he has a bit more time to find the big move.
That also doesn't mean Monte has been perfect. If Davion walks at the end of the year, not trading him for some picks will look bad. On the flip side, Davion has been playing better lately so maybe he succeeds as the backup PG the rest of the way. The Holmes trade looks bad in retrospect. Yeah, it cleaned our books and some clutter, but we now actually don't have a lot of "bad contracts" to add in salary match trades. Part of the reason we aren't in on buying some of these guys who went for second round picks is because we generally don't have bad matching salary to send away, so we actually have to send rotation players AND second round picks to make it work. Having the Holmes expiring would have been good at the deadline.
This actually reminds me a bit of our CWebb glory days. The first year we were good (the lockout year) was a huge surprise, it was our first time over .500 in ages, we had legit buzz, and we nearly won a playoff series against a proud veteran team. We didn't make many changes the second year, but instead let the core grow. It was only after a disappointing second year where we barely finished 8th, lost in the first round again, and had people thinking we stalled, that we made our big move in the offseason to get Bibby. I am guessing we make the playoffs this year, don't have nearly the buzz as last year, lose in the first round, and then use the offseason (when the Barnes and Huerter contracts both have a year less and the uncertainty around our pick to Atlanta is gone) to make our big final move.
I suppose you can look at it as "a year wasted," but that's not the long view Monte and Coach Brown are taking. The company line from the get-go this season was "we may take a step backward, but it's worth it to take steps forward in the years to come." Monte said it before the season began with respect to a team's development not being linear. Coach Brown said it before the season began with respect to the Kings' defensive focus and the repercussions that might have on their offensive output.
I see the value in their strategy when I watch Keegan Murray look like a young Kawhi Leonard out there, switching like a mad man, moving his hips with the kind of defensive intuition you almost never see from a second-year wing, bodying the opposing team's best player, forcing tough shots time and again. I see the value in their strategy when I watch De'Aaron Fox get engaged on the defensive end, digging at the opposing ball handler, hounding the passing lanes, getting his hands on everything. I see the value in their strategy when I watch Kevin Huerter defending and rebounding far beyond what his speed/athleticism suggests is possible.
It definitely sucks to see the offense take such a big step backward, but we all knew the Kings were never going to be a serious contender if the defense didn't improve. And it has improved. The eye test suggests it has, and the data suggests it has. They're not world-beaters on that end by any stretch of the imagination (and the three-point line remains such a strange defensive difficulty for this team). But Denver proved last season that boasting a killer offense and an average defense might be enough to win it all in the modern NBA.
If the Kings can bounce back offensively next season while maintaining, say, a top-15 defense, this won't have been a "wasted" year. It will have been a necessary step on this team's developmental journey. It's no fun in the immediate sense, but it's very clear to me that McNair and Brown are more invested in sustainable growth and execution, and in fact anticipated the possibility of a step backward this year on the road to long-term success. They're not making desperation moves. They're not fearful of the criticism that could follow. They're committed to their vision, and we'll just have to see if their patience and diligence ultimately pays off.
I see the value in their strategy when I watch Keegan Murray look like a young Kawhi Leonard out there, switching like a mad man, moving his hips with the kind of defensive intuition you almost never see from a second-year wing, bodying the opposing team's best player, forcing tough shots time and again. I see the value in their strategy when I watch De'Aaron Fox get engaged on the defensive end, digging at the opposing ball handler, hounding the passing lanes, getting his hands on everything. I see the value in their strategy when I watch Kevin Huerter defending and rebounding far beyond what his speed/athleticism suggests is possible.
It definitely sucks to see the offense take such a big step backward, but we all knew the Kings were never going to be a serious contender if the defense didn't improve. And it has improved. The eye test suggests it has, and the data suggests it has. They're not world-beaters on that end by any stretch of the imagination (and the three-point line remains such a strange defensive difficulty for this team). But Denver proved last season that boasting a killer offense and an average defense might be enough to win it all in the modern NBA.
If the Kings can bounce back offensively next season while maintaining, say, a top-15 defense, this won't have been a "wasted" year. It will have been a necessary step on this team's developmental journey. It's no fun in the immediate sense, but it's very clear to me that McNair and Brown are more invested in sustainable growth and execution, and in fact anticipated the possibility of a step backward this year on the road to long-term success. They're not making desperation moves. They're not fearful of the criticism that could follow. They're committed to their vision, and we'll just have to see if their patience and diligence ultimately pays off.
Thankfully, Monte has patience and isn't super emotional like us fans. He makes decisions based on what he thinks is the long term health of the club, not short term fixes.
Now, of course he can be wrong. Davion looking like a failed pick, the TT trade, etc. But his decision making has lead us to our only 2 successful years in a 20 year span. That deserves some level of leash, unlike what a lot of fans are complaining about him for.
Now, of course he can be wrong. Davion looking like a failed pick, the TT trade, etc. But his decision making has lead us to our only 2 successful years in a 20 year span. That deserves some level of leash, unlike what a lot of fans are complaining about him for.
I had a feeling it would only be small moves, and I'm cool with it.
Did anyone here actually want Kuzma or Lavine (before his injury)? Because that's what was out there in terms of "splashy" trades.
It's on Mike and the players now. This team has so much room for organic improvement, whether that's from the continued development of our young defensive players like Ellis or Edwards or Fox not being a sadboi anymore, we can get better without moves.
Did anyone here actually want Kuzma or Lavine (before his injury)? Because that's what was out there in terms of "splashy" trades.
It's on Mike and the players now. This team has so much room for organic improvement, whether that's from the continued development of our young defensive players like Ellis or Edwards or Fox not being a sadboi anymore, we can get better without moves.
Bibby was acquired after the 3rd year of that run, in 2001. The season after the Kings won their first series, then were swept by the Lakers in the 2nd round....which felt like a stall out, because they had beat LA in both home games the season before in the first round.
It's easy to forget that Bibby's big shot in game 5 against LA, was his first season with the Kings
It's easy to forget that Bibby's big shot in game 5 against LA, was his first season with the Kings
Oh wow- the memory fades over time I guess. For some reason I though Bibby came in year 3 during the sweep by LA, but you are right. But the general sentiment holds. I feel like Monte is trying to let his core grow (like Geoff did) and waiting for the surgical strike. Geoff found his surgical strike. It will be interesting to see if Monte can find his as well.
I think it was a mistake not finding an upgrade on Harrison Barnes from the summer to this trade deadline.
The Kings FO could find it hard to trade for anyone good in the off-season, unless those players really want to join the Kings. That's because it seems like there will only be a few sellers... and there are some teams who can easily outbid the Kings with the assets those teams can send out in trades (such as OKC, Houston, Utah).
The Kings FO could find it hard to trade for anyone good in the off-season, unless those players really want to join the Kings. That's because it seems like there will only be a few sellers... and there are some teams who can easily outbid the Kings with the assets those teams can send out in trades (such as OKC, Houston, Utah).
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Wasted year? How about wasted thread? That’s more accurate.
There are far too many entitled, instant gratification fans around these parts. That also don’t understand how teams are built. They aren’t built through lack of patience.
Denver sure had a few “wasted” years in developing their team before finally reaching the mountain top last season.
OKC is a franchise and Sam Presti a GM many here at KF have lauded for how they’ve been building their team and amassing picks for years. Have they been “wasting” years too? Because up til this season they hadn‘t reached the postseason the previous 3 years.
And guess what? If they lose in the first round this season, they’ll bring back most of the same team the very next season.
It ain’t about rushing “the process”. It’s about remaining patient, picking your spots when the right moves/players become available, and avoiding doing anything stupid.
Sometimes that amounts to building a consistent winner. Sometimes it doesn’t.
However panicking and making moves for the sake of making moves is almost always a recipe for disaster.
I sure am glad Monte McNair is in charge of things rather than the weekend warrior expert GM’s here at KF.
There are far too many entitled, instant gratification fans around these parts. That also don’t understand how teams are built. They aren’t built through lack of patience.
Denver sure had a few “wasted” years in developing their team before finally reaching the mountain top last season.
OKC is a franchise and Sam Presti a GM many here at KF have lauded for how they’ve been building their team and amassing picks for years. Have they been “wasting” years too? Because up til this season they hadn‘t reached the postseason the previous 3 years.
And guess what? If they lose in the first round this season, they’ll bring back most of the same team the very next season.
It ain’t about rushing “the process”. It’s about remaining patient, picking your spots when the right moves/players become available, and avoiding doing anything stupid.
Sometimes that amounts to building a consistent winner. Sometimes it doesn’t.
However panicking and making moves for the sake of making moves is almost always a recipe for disaster.
I sure am glad Monte McNair is in charge of things rather than the weekend warrior expert GM’s here at KF.
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We won a heck of a lot of games last year on DeAaron’s out of this world clutch player of the year performance. Looking at the history of clutch shooting stats (of the very greats) his performance last year was highly unlikely to happen again and I think we are seeing the impact of that to some extent. If last years team dropped a few of those “deaaron clutch wins”, and we were a 44 win team, would this years trajectory feel a bit more normal? I get it, I get highly frustrated by their inconsistent effort and play this year, but to some extent we skipped a couple steps last year that put unreal expectations on this group of players. Banking on continuity and growth to go from a 44 win team to a close to 50 win team, seems much more normal, than expecting this same group to all of a sudden become title contenders this year.
WTF, some people are making such threads ....
In general speaking, only 1 team wins NBA title - does it mean that rest of 29 teams wasted their year? Yes, some teams are choosing to tank and still they have the purpose: to get better draft pick. Some are pushing hard and reaching finals. Some learning what they lack and trying to be better next year.
People who know basketball good, they predicted that no big moves will be made this trade deadline due huge financial risk and this has happened...
Here are some info about upcomming changes:
" ... it's the final trade deadline before onerous restrictions to rein in spending go into full effect this summer....
... starting with the first day of the offseason, teams over the second apron in 2023-24:
Teams in the first and second apron had better like their own players and also have a strong pro personnel department, a team executive told ESPN, because it will become more difficult to add from the outside -- especially if teams do not control their first-round picks. (The Clippers, Bucks, Nuggets, Wolves and Suns are projected to fall into this category).
If a team finishes over the second apron after the 2024-25 season, its 2032 first-round pick is frozen and cannot be traded....."
In general speaking, only 1 team wins NBA title - does it mean that rest of 29 teams wasted their year? Yes, some teams are choosing to tank and still they have the purpose: to get better draft pick. Some are pushing hard and reaching finals. Some learning what they lack and trying to be better next year.
People who know basketball good, they predicted that no big moves will be made this trade deadline due huge financial risk and this has happened...
Here are some info about upcomming changes:
" ... it's the final trade deadline before onerous restrictions to rein in spending go into full effect this summer....
... starting with the first day of the offseason, teams over the second apron in 2023-24:
- can't take back more salary in a trade;
- are not allowed to aggregate contracts;
- are restricted from sending out cash in deals;
- and are restricted from using preexisting trade exceptions to acquire a player.
Teams in the first and second apron had better like their own players and also have a strong pro personnel department, a team executive told ESPN, because it will become more difficult to add from the outside -- especially if teams do not control their first-round picks. (The Clippers, Bucks, Nuggets, Wolves and Suns are projected to fall into this category).
If a team finishes over the second apron after the 2024-25 season, its 2032 first-round pick is frozen and cannot be traded....."
If you have been paying attention, Monte will act or make a move, when the opportunity presents itself. He didn’t overpay for any of the available. He’s shown he will make a bold move if remembering the Hali Domas deal and bringing in Huerter. He will make a low level deal to bring in role players or players who will have a future with us in time….Lyles, Kessler, Keon, Colby, etc
Also, bringing in Sasha and Duarte and Javale is not exactly running it back although these have been smaller role players to date ( Sasha most likely will have a bigger role at some point) but seems to me he has earned a very long leash.
Despite a lot of injuries for the team this year, this team is exceeding the expectations set out by the National talking heads and Vegas aren’t they?
Also, bringing in Sasha and Duarte and Javale is not exactly running it back although these have been smaller role players to date ( Sasha most likely will have a bigger role at some point) but seems to me he has earned a very long leash.
Despite a lot of injuries for the team this year, this team is exceeding the expectations set out by the National talking heads and Vegas aren’t they?
Yeah, always go for top shelf. And I think Monte is. Even though it would have been nice for him to set himself up to pivot a little at the deadline by either creating flexibility or picking up need pieces, he's not just sitting on his hands. The finish to the season will be intriguing for sure because teams that dangle everything but 3 guys that rely on the dangled ancillary pieces as much as the Kings do offensively sometimes crumble from within. Brown has a test before him to keep this together.
Sure, if we live in a super min-max fantasy world.
Reality is, very few teams actually have a chance to win a title or win a super bowl. 49ers pretty much had everything line up this year for them and a bunch of injuries in the Super Bowl+Pat Mahomes just were too much to overcome. I mean, LeBron James went to 8 straight finals for goodness sake. How is the rest of the league supposed to compete with that?
Reality with this Kings squad is without that top 5 guy, it's going to be extremely difficult to get over that hurdle. I think if Fox/Domas are rolling at the right time, they're talented enough to make up a top 5 player gap. But they have to be damn near perfect. Keegan is showing outrageously good potential, but where does he top out at? Is he MPJ with defense? Or does he get to that Paul George/Kawhi Leonard level?
All that said, this has easily been the most enjoyable season and a half of Kings basketball since I started being a fan. I was very young during the glory years and really didn't get to enjoy them as much as I would have liked. It's just way more fun rooting for a good team and a fun team that plays our brand of basketball. Even if we never fully ascend to a title contender, I'll still enjoy these seasons way more than checking out of the year by game 50 and wondering which top 6 pick will save us the following year.
Reality is, very few teams actually have a chance to win a title or win a super bowl. 49ers pretty much had everything line up this year for them and a bunch of injuries in the Super Bowl+Pat Mahomes just were too much to overcome. I mean, LeBron James went to 8 straight finals for goodness sake. How is the rest of the league supposed to compete with that?
Reality with this Kings squad is without that top 5 guy, it's going to be extremely difficult to get over that hurdle. I think if Fox/Domas are rolling at the right time, they're talented enough to make up a top 5 player gap. But they have to be damn near perfect. Keegan is showing outrageously good potential, but where does he top out at? Is he MPJ with defense? Or does he get to that Paul George/Kawhi Leonard level?
All that said, this has easily been the most enjoyable season and a half of Kings basketball since I started being a fan. I was very young during the glory years and really didn't get to enjoy them as much as I would have liked. It's just way more fun rooting for a good team and a fun team that plays our brand of basketball. Even if we never fully ascend to a title contender, I'll still enjoy these seasons way more than checking out of the year by game 50 and wondering which top 6 pick will save us the following year.
But the question is: What decision is a poor decision?
The answer to that question, particularly as it concerns the Kings' (undisclosed) negotiations and ultimate inaction at the trade deadline, is quite complicated. We don't know what offers were on the table. We don't know how those offers would have impacted the team with respect to salary and draft picks down the road - a question that is even more pertinent now than ever before with the implementation of the very punitive two-apron system. It's not entirely clear that there were any franchise-changing pieces available on the market. Ultimately it appears that we decided to stop our pursuit of Siakam, probably the nearest thing to a franchise-changing piece, because he was not willing to commit to staying in Sacramento beyond this season. The other players we were rumored to be after - for instance Kuzma and Grant - seem to me (and at least some others here) to be lateral moves at best with fairly heavy financial penalties.
One can certainly look at it this way: We have a young duo (Fox, Sabonis) that is capable of anchoring a championship-level basketball team, and is locked up long term (Sabonis 4 more years/Fox 2 more years and likely to stick around), and has a long window remaining (3+ years easily). We have a very exciting and still developing third piece (Murray) also locked up for 2 more years and due to RFA lockable for longer. And we have a good core of support pieces, one of whom (Monk) needs to be re-signed and others that give us good flexibility (talent and capwise) to keep or use as trade bait to better support our top players (support = Huerter, Barnes, Lyles, Vezenkov, and to be honest, now that he's signed to a very team-friendly contract, potentially Ellis). But, on the whole, we don't have the experience to get it done yet. We're a bit young, we're inconsistent, we lack focus, we're only 1.5 years into our current construction, and by any reasonable account, we're not ready to win it all. So, if we blow our future flexibility on a win-now scheme, trying to integrate a new player into an already-green team while shortening our window, is that a good decision, or a poor one? If our own history is any indication, the Webber/Peja/Divac Kings weren't nearly ready to win in year 2, had nothing but an outside chance in year 3, and were then title favorites in years 4 and 5. Those teams only changed out one core piece (the JWill/Bibby trade, and that was a clear upgrade). Patience has worked before. Maybe patience is actually the good decision here.
The answer to that question, particularly as it concerns the Kings' (undisclosed) negotiations and ultimate inaction at the trade deadline, is quite complicated. We don't know what offers were on the table. We don't know how those offers would have impacted the team with respect to salary and draft picks down the road - a question that is even more pertinent now than ever before with the implementation of the very punitive two-apron system. It's not entirely clear that there were any franchise-changing pieces available on the market. Ultimately it appears that we decided to stop our pursuit of Siakam, probably the nearest thing to a franchise-changing piece, because he was not willing to commit to staying in Sacramento beyond this season. The other players we were rumored to be after - for instance Kuzma and Grant - seem to me (and at least some others here) to be lateral moves at best with fairly heavy financial penalties.
One can certainly look at it this way: We have a young duo (Fox, Sabonis) that is capable of anchoring a championship-level basketball team, and is locked up long term (Sabonis 4 more years/Fox 2 more years and likely to stick around), and has a long window remaining (3+ years easily). We have a very exciting and still developing third piece (Murray) also locked up for 2 more years and due to RFA lockable for longer. And we have a good core of support pieces, one of whom (Monk) needs to be re-signed and others that give us good flexibility (talent and capwise) to keep or use as trade bait to better support our top players (support = Huerter, Barnes, Lyles, Vezenkov, and to be honest, now that he's signed to a very team-friendly contract, potentially Ellis). But, on the whole, we don't have the experience to get it done yet. We're a bit young, we're inconsistent, we lack focus, we're only 1.5 years into our current construction, and by any reasonable account, we're not ready to win it all. So, if we blow our future flexibility on a win-now scheme, trying to integrate a new player into an already-green team while shortening our window, is that a good decision, or a poor one? If our own history is any indication, the Webber/Peja/Divac Kings weren't nearly ready to win in year 2, had nothing but an outside chance in year 3, and were then title favorites in years 4 and 5. Those teams only changed out one core piece (the JWill/Bibby trade, and that was a clear upgrade). Patience has worked before. Maybe patience is actually the good decision here.