A Conversation between Rick Adelman and Shareef A-Rahim

[Purple Reign]

Here is a conversation that i hopes will happen between Coach Adelman and Abdur-Rahim

SETTING
As Shareef is shooting free throws at the end of practice today before boarding the plane to Orlando, Coach Adelman calls Shareef over to the side in private.

COACH ADELMAN: Reef, I think that you played a great game last night under very difficult circumstances. You are a warrior and the effort will not go unnoticed.

SHAREEF: UMMHUM, HUMMUM, MUM (Translation through the Wire speak )Thanks coach, I appreciate that.

RA: I just want to let you know that I will be starting Kenny throughout this road trip and for the indefinate future.

SAR: UMMHUM, HUMMUM, MUM (Translation through the Wire speak) Why coach? I know that it is going to take me some time to get back into condition, but after a while, I'll be alright and ready to go.

RA: I know and I understand that, but Kenny is playing so well right now, and I do not want to mess up what we have going. We do not need any internal distractions at this point and if I go back to the way things were, I am afraid that we will lose certain players as far as chemestry.

SAR: Uh Huh (as Shareef nods his head and gives a look in a disagreeable but mutual understanding)

RA: Besides, I know that you are able to handle this and still be wonderfully productive off of the bench with significant minutes and contribute to this ball team. You can not say that about everybody.

SAR: I understand.

RA: Reef, please trust me on this. And if things begin to turn, i will get you back in there. But until then, Kenny will be starting.

SAR: UMMHUM, HUMMUM, MUMBLE, MUMBLE, MUMBLE (Translation through the Wire speak) OK coach, I just want to win.


AUTHORS NOTE: This is the conversation I think should take place right now. Because if Adelman does it any other way, this team is screwed and we can kiss this season goodbye. Not because of Shareef, but because of other players who can not handle their role. Keep listening, because Coach will have the same conversation with Kevin Martin when #42 is ready to return .

 

[playmaker0017]

Wait... wait... wait...

AUTHORS NOTE: This is the conversation I think should take place right now. Because if Adelman does it any other way, this team is screwed and we can kiss this season goodbye. Not because of Shareef, but because of other players who can not handle their role. Keep listening, because Coach will have the same conversation with Kevin Martin when #42 is ready to return .

Let me get this straight - Shareef ought to take the bench, even though he has been more productive, efficient and consistant than Kenny Thomas, because we don't want to break "chemistry" and because Kenny is playing well.

But, when Bonzi returns ... Martin, who is playing phenominal and quite consistantly, ought to head to the bench?

That seems like completely bogus logic.

Unless the whole reason for not putting Thomas on then bench is because he'll whine and complain ... and if that is the case ... he ought to not be on the team as he is looking out for himself over the team.

PS - On the poll you have the reason for Reef not losing his spot is because he shouldn't due to injury. That is NOT my reasoning. My reasoning is that he's a superior player and has performed better than anyone on the team up to this point. There just isn't an off-game in his resume really.

 

[Purple Reign]

Hear me out.

Back at the beginning of training camp, Kenny Thomas declared that he should be the starter. Through out this first half of the season his body language, his production and his words through the media showed that he was not down with coming off of the bench.

In the past three weeks that kenny Thomas has been the starter, kings have played reasonably well, including the two biggest wins of the season against Phoenix and the Lakers. Kenny Thomas has played a significant role in both wins including his first triple double.

Shareef, still has a long way to go to get into condition, including the proceedure to remove the wiring from his jaw which will not happen for another three weeks. So more than likely Thomas will be starting throughout this road trip and maybe more than that.

YES, I DO AGREE THAT SHAREEF IS THE BETTER PLAYER and should be starting. But if you take Kenny out of the line up when he has done everything he has been asked to do, you are asking for trouble IMHO. Based on his past behavior.

In the case of Bonzi, we all know that when Bonzi was in Portland and in Memphis, the only reason why he had problems was because of his playing time. If you do not put that guy back into the lineup, all hell will break out again based on past behavior of Bonzi Wells.

I know this is not right, but that is coaching in the NBA. You are dealing with personalities and trying to manage conflict.

 

[Diabeticwonder]

If KT is not traded then I personally think that he should start. Whether or not he gets more minutes than Reef is up to RA, but KT has proven that he is a complete dud coming off the bench. Reef on the other hand had a better game last night in his only appearance so far off the bench than KT has had all year off the bench. I believe that Reef is a more talented player than KT, but the team will be more complete and much deeper if he comes off the bench. I doubt that RA will do that, but who knows.

 

[Jerryaki]

i disagree with the second post.

i think for the past few weeks, a decent chemistry has developed between our new "starters" and i think it would be good for the team to keep KT in the lineup but not martin.

to me, KT and reef have been comparable (when they're on, of course; dead-weight kenny does not count). so, if one guy can stomach coming off the bench to score (reef), and the other one seems to play better starting (KT), then let's go with it. it may be selfish of KT to feel that way, but the results speak for themselves (he can't play off the bench) and i don't see any takers for his contract. so we use him or we lose him.

bonzi vs. martin is different. kevin, as good as he's been playing, is still not consistent and he's flashing his ability, but he needs more maturation. on the other hand we have bonzi, a (seemingly) +10 rpg guy for us with emotion and some defensive intensity. who's also in a contract year. i'd rather start him over martin.

 

[love_them_kings]

Hear me out.

Back at the beginning of training camp, Kenny Thomas declared that he should be the starter. Through out this first half of the season his body language, his production and his words through the media showed that he was not down with coming off of the bench.

In the past three weeks that kenny Thomas has been the starter, kings have played reasonably well, including the two biggest wins of the season against Phoenix and the Lakers. Kenny Thomas has played a significant role in both wins including his first triple double.

Shareef, still has a long way to go to get into condition, including the proceedure to remove the wiring from his jaw which will not happen for another three weeks. So more than likely Thomas will be starting throughout this road trip and maybe more than that.

YES, I DO AGREE THAT SHAREEF IS THE BETTER PLAYER and should be starting. But if you take Kenny out of the line up when he has done everything he has been asked to do, you are asking for trouble IMHO. Based on his past behavior.

but then we are rewarding him for pouting.

I like the way Kenny has been playing, but frankly, I could do without his attitude. I agree with starting Kenny for the next couple of weeks, because I think Shareef's amazing to be playing at all, and I don't think he'll be up to large #'s of minutes for a while. But, if you really believe that Shareef is a better player, is it fair to give Kenny the starting position just because he's a pain in the *** if he doesn't start?

 

[playmaker0017]

YES, I DO AGREE THAT SHAREEF IS THE BETTER PLAYER and should be starting. But if you take Kenny out of the line up when he has done everything he has been asked to do, you are asking for trouble IMHO. Based on his past behavior.

That's my point - you can't reward someone for poor behavior.

They ought to look quickly at trades. If Reef can perform by the trade deadline, then move KT.

Reef will quietly come off the bench. He'd be hurt, but he'd do it for the team.

If KT won't ... then he really isn't part of the team. He's a one man operation and it will go well for only as long as he gets what he wants.

As someone pointed out - he wouldn't let his children act that way.

Let KT sit on the bench and stew. I'm not too worried with the emergence of Martin and Cisco. They are coming into their own. It's not such a fear factor having them in the game. If KT wants to drag that down, keep him nailed to the pine. I promise Corliss would love a few minutes.

 

[Yoda]

It is about the wins, not the productivity, right?

Bench SAR, actually start Thomas would be a better way to put it.

 

[nbrans]

Right now the Kings need borderline career games out of Bibby and Miller in order to win. The youngsters are showing promise and step up from time to time, but they tend to give up as many points through rookie defense, mistakes, poor decision making, as they put in. Luckily for the Kings Bibby and Miller have mostly been showing up. But they are the only two difference makers on the team right now. If they have good games it trickles down to everyone else.

The difference between KT and Shareef is that Shareef can get his own shot, and usually get a good one. At least on the offensive end, Shareef is a difference maker. With him in the starting lineup and playing 35 minutes a night the Kings can afford an off night from Bibby or Miller because Shareef can pick up a lot of the slack on the offensive end. KT is just not that type of player.

KT's going to pout when he goes back to the bench? Boo hoo. Blackmail should not earn you a spot in the starting lineup.

 

[Jerryaki]

understand the logic for benching poor behavior, but it comes down to is RA (in the last year of his contract) looking for warm-and-fuzzies, to build a likeable team? or does he want to win?

 

[quick dog]

I like Rahim, but Kenny deserves the nod as the starter. He is working his butt off for the team, and the flow has been very good. Rahim is a man, and I doubt that he will raise hell about coming off the bench.

Rahim will get minutes because I think Adelman will give more rest to Miller, just like he started to do last night. It will work.

 

[Yoda]

oh and while Thomas is playing well as a starter and putting up numbers, actively shop him to some poor GM who puts too much value in numbers.

Danny....Peja and Thomas for Peirce and ________

 

[Jerryaki]

and if nothing else, we've seen where reef starting, kenny benched gets us. let's try it the other way for a while. =)

 

[Wuster]

That's my point - you can't reward someone for poor behavior.

They ought to look quickly at trades. If Reef can perform by the trade deadline, then move KT.

Reef will quietly come off the bench. He'd be hurt, but he'd do it for the team.

If KT won't ... then he really isn't part of the team. He's a one man operation and it will go well for only as long as he gets what he wants.

As someone pointed out - he wouldn't let his children act that way.

Let KT sit on the bench and stew. I'm not too worried with the emergence of Martin and Cisco. They are coming into their own. It's not such a fear factor having them in the game. If KT wants to drag that down, keep him nailed to the pine. I promise Corliss would love a few minutes.

Ditto.

The better player should start. And I think it is clear that over the course of the season, SAR is that player.

Thomas is apparently more comfortable and productive in a starting role and has had some highly productive games, like last night's. But, iff he is not professional enough to accept his role as a dynamic 6th man and elevate the team, then he's not on the right team.

 

[playmaker0017]

i think for the past few weeks, a decent chemistry has developed between our new "starters" and i think it would be good for the team to keep KT in the lineup but not martin.

I just don't buy this "chemistry" thing.

Bibby has played better because he has been allowed to run free rather than be asked to play as a PG. That's difference #1.

Difference #2 is that we aren't allowing a bench to come in and hand over our leads. Our starting unit was not unproductive before the injuries. Our bench was abysmal.

KT can be part of the solution by bringing this same gritty play from the bench.

I'll full out admit that I'm making more of a stink than Reef would - but it's dumb to reward KT for deciding not to play off the bench.

to me, KT and reef have been comparable (when they're on, of course; dead-weight kenny does not count). so, if one guy can stomach coming off the bench to score (reef), and the other one seems to play better starting (KT), then let's go with it.

I disagree. Reef has been far more efficient defensively and has really not had any "not on" nights ... compared to KT who may or may not decide to show up on any given night.

it may be selfish of KT to feel that way, but the results speak for themselves (he can't play off the bench) and i don't see any takers for his contract. so we use him or we lose him.

If that is HIS attitude than lose him. I'd rather buy out his contract and send him packing than allow him to dictate a starting lineup by having attitude, pouting or not playing in the situation he's placed in.

bonzi vs. martin is different. kevin, as good as he's been playing, is still not consistent and he's flashing his ability, but he needs more maturation. on the other hand we have bonzi, a (seemingly) +10 rpg guy for us with emotion and some defensive intensity. who's also in a contract year. i'd rather start him over martin.

Bonzi has not been very good defensively. He's been just a scratch around average. He's certainly not a true 10 RPG guy - his lifetime stats agree with that assessment ... although I think he's good for 6-7 a night if he wasn't grabbing the cheapies by jumping in front of Reef.

You just can't reward a guy for not playing off the bench or having a pee-poor team attitude. It sets a standard.

I mean, what if Reef or Martin or whomever decide they'll pout instead of playing too.... since it got KT what he wanted. It's dangerous to play that game.

 

[playmaker0017]

It is about the wins, not the productivity, right?

If that's the case - then bench Bonzi too.

It's a LARGE leap to assume that KT is the sole reason that this team is producing right now. I just don't buy it.

 

[Yoda]

If that's the case - then bench Bonzi too.

It's a LARGE leap to assume that KT is the sole reason that this team is producing right now. I just don't buy it.

SAR is a proven winner, a difference maker, he gets teams over the top...right?

 

[Jerryaki]

which goes back to the point of what RA is trying to do. i don't think he cares any longer about building a team, he just wants to gut out as many wins as he can.

and while reef is more talented than KT and has been productive as a starter, something is just off. i can't explain it, but it doesn't all seem to work or flow that well. maybe it's the total dynamic of the starting five rather than just reef. but KT is okay, and i remeber the KT from the last half of last season, who gave us something.

 

[nbrans]

SAR is a proven winner, a difference maker, he gets teams over the top...right?

It's pretty funny, now that SAR has played with a broken jaw people can't really make the soft/no heart argument. If the Kings start winning does that mean people will stop making the "proven winner" argument as well?

Or how about judging someone by how they play night in night out and not on how their crappy teams have done in the past?

 

[playmaker0017]

SAR is a proven winner, a difference maker, he gets teams over the top...right?

And Kenny Thomas is?

Come on.

Kenny Thomas in Vancouver ... that team wins 10 games.

Let's get real. Reef may not be a leader or have the ability to shoulder an entire team ... but he's head and shoulders more talented than KT.

 

[playmaker0017]

and while reef is more talented than KT and has been productive as a starter, something is just off. i can't explain it, but it doesn't all seem to work or flow that well. maybe it's the total dynamic of the starting five rather than just reef.

Just so we are ALL clear - the starting unit this year has outperformed offensively the team from last year in PPM. They are also more successful than this current lineup.

The issue before is that we kept letting the bench kill us. There was no productivity.

It wasn't an issue with the starters .... and if I need to go drudge up statistics to prove this point AGAIN, I'll do it.

 

[Jerryaki]

reef is more talented than KT, but like many people have analyzed before, the starting line-up needs some role players. keep reef on, fine. then bench another scorer to put in a hustler (e.g. peja swapped with cisco). do SOMETHING. the original starting five isn't working properly. neither is the bench.

 

[Yoda]

It's pretty funny, now that SAR has played with a broken jaw people can't really make the soft/no heart argument. If the Kings start winning does that mean people will stop making the "proven winner" argument as well?

Or how about judging someone by how they play night in night out and not on how their crappy teams have done in the past?

My point isnt too say SAR has no heart, or even that he a a loser (which at this point-he is). My point is that SAR does not need too start for us to win. If KT is only going to produce when he start and Rahim is going to produce in both cases, then start KT. Get the most out of your players. And hopefully while you are at it, get KT tradeable so we can rebuild this franchice.

 

[Jerryaki]

Just so we are ALL clear - the starting unit this year has outperformed offensively the team from last year in PPM. They are also more successful than this current lineup.

The issue before is that we kept letting the bench kill us. There was no productivity.

It wasn't an issue with the starters .... and if I need to go drudge up statistics to prove this point AGAIN, I'll do it.

\

1) correlation does not equal causation. stats are numbers that may or may not tell the whole story. the stat i care about is W-L.

2) earning more points per game isn't great when you're not getting wins. see bryant, kobe, 1/19/2006.

3) bench wasn't working before. perhaps with reef coming off it it will? just saying we can give it a shot.

 

[Yoda]

The issue before is that we kept letting the bench kill us. There was no productivity.

I can agree with that.

 

[AriesMar27]

well if reef is a loser for not making it to the playoffs then so is elton brand.....

the problem isnt with thomas and reef.... its the bench and peja.... if peja were averaging 20+ppg we wouldnt be having this conversation. if peja and miller had hit their wide freaking open shots last night we wouldnt be having this conversation because we would have won in regulation and thomas would have netted 10 pts, 10 rbs and and however many assists since bibby wouldnt have gotten or needed those last few shots from thomas if miller and peja had hit their shots from bibby.... damn that was a long sentence.

but reef should start and thomas should suck it up and score on opposing teams bench players, he did it against walton.

oh and thomas played 46 minutes last night.... i dont see him playing that much for the rest of the season..... why didnt skinner or corliss play? i would have thought that corilss would have come in when kobe was out.....

 

[gilly420]

reef will handle coming off the bench alot more professionally than Kenny does, and i think he has value working in with the second unit. Unless Kenny is traded, why not start him and try to get him off to a good start rather than with the second unit where he obviously cant produce consistently. What matters most is who is in for the finish and that should be Reef when he gets his legs back.

 

[LPKingsFan]

I don't care about Reef or KT's respective past histories. Look at the bigger picture here, which is the team.

The facts are:

1. Kenny has performed admirably as a starter.

2. Reef is still not 100%

Adelman indicated the starting position is up for grabs at the beginning of the season, and I see nothing to show that Reef's earning it at the time did anything to make it permanent all season. I think Rick will continue to bring Reef off the bench until his jaw is completely healed and/or Kenny falls off. Kenny's been playing well and Reef still needs to recover all the way, so until one or both of those conditions change I see no reason for the starting PF to change.

 

[DocHolliday]

You made a mistake in your conversation there. Everytime Shareef said something it would say

Shareef: *Indefinable sound*

Rick Adelman: What??

Sharee: *mumble mumble mumble*

His jaw is still wired shut. lol.

 

[HndsmCelt]

You made a mistake in your conversation there. Everytime Shareef said something it would say

Shareef: *Indefinable sound*

Rick Adelman: What??

Sharee: *mumble mumble mumble*

His jaw is still wired shut. lol.

Ha Ha Ha I was going to post the same thing! Great minds and all