iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
Well it’s over. That schedule is not even worth looking at. One game at a time and find a way to win more than you lose. This hurts, we should be 4 games over .500 instead of two. What a difference.
[Game] 64/82: Kings vs. Knicks 10 MAR 2025, 7:30p PT/10:30p ET
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reptilexcq2
Bench
Team already lost when they started Monk. Monk is best off the bench because he doesn't play D. His inability to defend pick n roll put too much pressure on the team and as a result someone is going to be wide open for shots. Better to start Ellis. The fact that DeRozen and Lavine don't play D also make it that much more important to start Ellis.
Rob-The-Great
Starter
Derozens defense is worse than Monks not even gonna lie
I've watched him close. It's terrible, add his frustration "rightfully" and it gets out of hand fast.
sactowndog
All-Star
Doug’s record is pretty well correlated to having an injury which forces him to play Ellis. Our starters fit horribly and that’s on Monte.
he has done a great job of steering us into that 9/10 seed where we likely miss the playoffs and lose our draft pick. Monte excels at killing excitement and hope.
Joshyjosh31
Starter
Ya Derozan defense is way worse then monks
twslam07
All-Star
Frustrating game. Not that this was the sole reason we lost today, but we definitely still have roster imbalances we need to address during the offseason. I’m still not liking this trio of Monk, LaVine, and DeRozan.
I actually think a trade centered around Malik Monk for Cam Johnson (might need a 3rd team to take Monk and send assets to BKN) would help balance us out a lot. We’d then elevate Ellis to the starting lineup and convince DeRozan to come off the bench in favor of Johnson. With a resigned LaRavia, that leaves us with…
PG - Ellis (30) / Carter (18)
SG - Lavine (34) / Carter (6) / DeRozan (8)
SF - Johnson (26) / DeRozan (22)
PF - Murray (30) / LaRavia (14) / Johnson (4)
C - Sabonis (34) / Valanciunas (14)
LaVine = 34 min
Sabonis = 34 min
Ellis = 30 min
Johnson = 30 min
Murray = 30 min
DeRozan = 30 min
Carter = 24 min
LaRavia = 14 min
Valanciunas = 14 min
We’re probably lacking some playmaking in the starting lineup by starting Ellis at PG, but perhaps we make up for that up by having 5 excellent 3PT shooters on the floor. Not to mention we’d be bigger/longer and better defensively by swapping Monk for Ellis and DeRozan for Johnson.
We’d still have DeRozan to lead the bench unit as our super 6th man and keep our offense afloat when our starters are resting, and we’d free up more minutes for Carter to step up, develop, and carve out a nice role.
I’ll also say that this starting lineup could give Murray some opportunity to step into a bigger offensive role since Ellis and Johnson don’t nearly have the usage that Monk and DeRozan do.
Lastly, we could also still look to resign Lyles to give us some deep bench depth and give us a PF/C type player to use in certain matchups since guys like Johnson, Murray, and LaRavia are more SF/PFs.
I actually think a trade centered around Malik Monk for Cam Johnson (might need a 3rd team to take Monk and send assets to BKN) would help balance us out a lot. We’d then elevate Ellis to the starting lineup and convince DeRozan to come off the bench in favor of Johnson. With a resigned LaRavia, that leaves us with…
PG - Ellis (30) / Carter (18)
SG - Lavine (34) / Carter (6) / DeRozan (8)
SF - Johnson (26) / DeRozan (22)
PF - Murray (30) / LaRavia (14) / Johnson (4)
C - Sabonis (34) / Valanciunas (14)
LaVine = 34 min
Sabonis = 34 min
Ellis = 30 min
Johnson = 30 min
Murray = 30 min
DeRozan = 30 min
Carter = 24 min
LaRavia = 14 min
Valanciunas = 14 min
We’re probably lacking some playmaking in the starting lineup by starting Ellis at PG, but perhaps we make up for that up by having 5 excellent 3PT shooters on the floor. Not to mention we’d be bigger/longer and better defensively by swapping Monk for Ellis and DeRozan for Johnson.
We’d still have DeRozan to lead the bench unit as our super 6th man and keep our offense afloat when our starters are resting, and we’d free up more minutes for Carter to step up, develop, and carve out a nice role.
I’ll also say that this starting lineup could give Murray some opportunity to step into a bigger offensive role since Ellis and Johnson don’t nearly have the usage that Monk and DeRozan do.
Lastly, we could also still look to resign Lyles to give us some deep bench depth and give us a PF/C type player to use in certain matchups since guys like Johnson, Murray, and LaRavia are more SF/PFs.
GWD
Bench
Having Monk and DeRosan coming off the bench would be devastating to opponents. Their combined firepower and Monk's energy puts a tremendous amount of pressure in a second unit vs. second unit situation. Their defensive weakness would not be so glaring against bench players. If one or both player show hot, then extend their minutes.
Such a modification would leave shooters LaVine and Murray to be the primary offensive scorers, with Ellis, LaRavia Sabonis capable contributing shooters as well. The improved defensive balance is obvious if these five are the starters. Scoring is there, defense is there.
Too often the team appears to stand and watch when DeRosan has the ball. His game is to shoot first and pass when desperate. There is no doubt that he is accomplished at scoring, his stats reflect that. However, it is not team ball and is not leading to consistent winning. He brought that game with him to the Kings and is not about to change at this point in his career. His skills would be more appreciated if surrounded by lesser accomplished bench players and perhaps closing games. DeRosan helps himself at the expense of the rest of the starters.
Monk has tried mightily to become a point guard, give him credit for that. But he is primarily a shooter and offensive dynamo at times. He is a great guy to have on the team for multiple reasons. Inserted in a starting line up with multiple shooters is suppressing his talents. It has negatively affected his shooting since his main role as point guard should be to distribute. Taking a shot when other options may be available is a distraction that has not served him well. As (nearly) 6th man of the year, the team had an extended glimpse of how he can best be a major contributor.
Such an experiment fails for many reasons not related to logic. It CAN be done but, so far, nobody with the ability to attempt it has come forward to give it a try.
Such a modification would leave shooters LaVine and Murray to be the primary offensive scorers, with Ellis, LaRavia Sabonis capable contributing shooters as well. The improved defensive balance is obvious if these five are the starters. Scoring is there, defense is there.
Too often the team appears to stand and watch when DeRosan has the ball. His game is to shoot first and pass when desperate. There is no doubt that he is accomplished at scoring, his stats reflect that. However, it is not team ball and is not leading to consistent winning. He brought that game with him to the Kings and is not about to change at this point in his career. His skills would be more appreciated if surrounded by lesser accomplished bench players and perhaps closing games. DeRosan helps himself at the expense of the rest of the starters.
Monk has tried mightily to become a point guard, give him credit for that. But he is primarily a shooter and offensive dynamo at times. He is a great guy to have on the team for multiple reasons. Inserted in a starting line up with multiple shooters is suppressing his talents. It has negatively affected his shooting since his main role as point guard should be to distribute. Taking a shot when other options may be available is a distraction that has not served him well. As (nearly) 6th man of the year, the team had an extended glimpse of how he can best be a major contributor.
Such an experiment fails for many reasons not related to logic. It CAN be done but, so far, nobody with the ability to attempt it has come forward to give it a try.
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reptilexcq2
Bench
In my opinion, coach Christie has a big dilemma to make. Do you put winning over players ego? Or do you honor ego over winning for the sake of chemistry? If he desire winning, I feel that Malik need to come off the bench (which is the sole reason why he's been doing it for years for lack of defense). Trust me, defense win games!!! When Malik and Sabonis were out, the Kings play great D and were constantly giving plenty of opportunities to scores. But we can't afford to exchange baskets by not playing D, that's not the best way to win games. What if you have an off game? It's over, right? But defense always give you a chance. With the way the team is structured, they need a couple great defenders in the starting lineups to help out the team defense or it's going to be a long night. That's why Jonas and Keon actually make the team better defensively than Sabonis and Malik. We have enough scoring with Lavine, DeRozen and Keegan.
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fansinceday1
Starter
No way monk goes back to coming off the bench. No way.
this isn’t gonna get solved till the offseason. Derozans probably gonna force his way out so we’ll be good there.
this isn’t gonna get solved till the offseason. Derozans probably gonna force his way out so we’ll be good there.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
They both are pretty bad but Monk is the one having to guard the ball handler so it looks worse and likely is worse in the results.
Vinny Basketballerino
Starter
What is this talk/assumption that DeRozan will/wants to leave? Are we speculating? Is this obvious to everyone else except me? Didn't he just literally voluntarily sign with us?
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
It's a bit disappointing that Monk has not been able to improve his defense. He should have been able to by now.
I think it's psychological, where some guys get it into their head that they're not defensive players and so they just stop trying to figure out how to get better on that end
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
I think maybe the assumption is that going forward he'd want to really believe he has a chance to contend in his last couple seasons. If this team were to fail to be anywhere near that in this post season, then maybe he'd look for another team to find that chance?
fansinceday1
Starter
All you have to do is listen to his interviews. He came here expecting to play with Fox and compete. Then they fire coach brown, trade Fox and the kings aren’t sure if they will be able to compete. Dude is in his final couple of years playing. Hes not gonna waste them here. Hes as good as gone.
Joshyjosh31
Starter
We’re simply cooked with that starting group
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
I think that's fair,...although I'd bet he prefers Christie as a head coach over Brown
Joshyjosh31
Starter
Have no problem trading him and he should be looking at Fox he’s the one that quit mid season
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
I wonder if Jack tweeted about the Kings being the number one defense for the last 7 games prior to the Knicks game.
Vinny Basketballerino
Starter
And do you see him forcing a trade like Fox?
Vinny Basketballerino
Starter
Um... the changes this season have been good. Brought in one of his best friends. Significantly improved the roster on trade deadline. Team is excelling under Christie.
You think he signed here because of Mike Brown? Come on man.
I don't know where you people come up with this stuff.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
No.....but privately asking for or being open to a trade after this season ends wouldn't surprise me
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Rob-The-Great
Starter
If kings was smart they would gladly trade him for a PF and balance the roster while he still has some value left. Next year of course. This year I'm happy to have him.
Now if Monk and Rozen wouldn't shoot so dam much id be a happy man. Lavine and Murray should be taking the most shots, followed by Rozen then monk.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
so in the last month and some change, the Kings have only beaten two Playoff teams, the Wolves on February 3rd and the Rockets on March 1st. The rest of the wins are against sub par and lottery teams. The Kings are what they are at this point and have been all season long with Brown too. In the off season, hopefully Monte makes some necessary changes rather than giving this group of players another run with Christie, should he get an extension.
sactowndog
All-Star
The LaVine trade will go down as one of the worst in Kings history
* you blocked your highest net rating player from his best position and your lottery pick that was so talented you had to draft yet another point guard.
* you used up available cap space you needed to sign a wing
* you made sure you were good enough to lose your draft pick but bad enough to miss the play-offs (quite a feat)
* you made the team much older
* you lost the confidence of your two best players and the good players who can get out of town will.
* you blocked your highest net rating player from his best position and your lottery pick that was so talented you had to draft yet another point guard.
* you used up available cap space you needed to sign a wing
* you made sure you were good enough to lose your draft pick but bad enough to miss the play-offs (quite a feat)
* you made the team much older
* you lost the confidence of your two best players and the good players who can get out of town will.
Joshyjosh31
Starter
We we never gonna tank so that pick talk is nonsense and even if we traded fox for straight picks only we still lose our pick with all the bad teams.
Derozan doesn’t fit so next year ellis should be starting when Derozan is traded so we didn’t block ellis. Unless we trade DD for a bigger wing and Ellis still comes off the bench
Vinny Basketballerino
Starter
It just absolutely blows my mind that a seemingly significant percentage of of this board just assumes DeRozan will be traded. Are you all listening to the same deranged podcast? I seriously missed the memo on this. It's so weird.
He's been a fantastic signing.
sactowndog
All-Star
a fantastic signing would get you in the play-offs versus the 9/10 playin seed. Only on a Kings fan board would anyone dare say a signing that resulted in a 9/10 seed was fantastic.
GWD
Bench
Vinny, I agree with your opinions 99.9% of the time. The DeRosan issue just happens to be a point of divergence.
There is no doubt that DeRosan has game. That game could fit on any team and it would not change one iota. As a scorer, he will get his points regardless of the offensive scheme, player construct, or need. And that is where he detracts from the Kings.
The Kings have plenty of players with offensive talent (some of those with defensive skills as well). Being ball-dominate, DeRosan deprives those teammates from contributing their offensive production. When he gets the ball, the players pause and wait for the inevitable shot or move to rebounding position. Only under extreme pressure is he willing to give up the ball. LaVine, Murray, and even Monk could easily handle the offensive load of the starters.
DeRosan would be most useful with other bench players in the game when a strong offensive player can carry the load. Since that is not a likely scenario, it would be best for him to move on and be dealt for a player that fills team needs while he still has trade value.
DeRosan's offense production, while impressive, is offset by a lack of defensive expertise. Some forum member more skilled than me likely has the precise data on this issue. But by appearances, his point production is given back by half on the defensive end.
The only way to test these opinions is for DeRosan to sit out games due to injury or illness and evaluate the results. Of course, that circumstance is not a goal so we are only able to speculate.
sactowndog
All-Star
Ellis is not big enough or strong enough to play the three. The dude is rail thin.
Good luck on that bolded part. Kings fans has been fantasizing about trading X smaller guard or Y player we don’t want for a bigger wing for 5 years and it has not happened yet. It’s Jim Jones level of delusion.
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