[2015] The Finals

[Bricklayer]

I don't see that adjustment you are referring to...all I'm seeing is Iguodala having himself a game and helping take some of the scoring pressure off of Steph and Klay.

The adjustment WAS Igoudala in place of Bogut.

That and the rediscovery of David Lee as a guy who could give them inside scoring.

The Warriors have 2 former All Stars they keep stashed on the bench. They turned to them.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Cavs just don't have the players to keep the pressure up, and with their poor shooting it's tough. They will have to find additional offense if they want to win game 5.

 

[PurpleHaze]

The key adjustment I saw was Livingston and his length. The 6'7" Ws guard reduced a heroic Delly back to what he is mostly, a scrub NBA player. Otherwise it was a spent severely under manned Cavs team that was underdog in the series at the beginning and still is. But it's been highly entertaining, until this game which just showed why Ws won 67 games this season and were such outstanding road Warriors.

 

[kingsboi]

looks like the real JR Smith showed up in this one

 

[The_Jamal]

Same game (the all critical Game 4), and looks like same result, as it was in the Grizzlies series. The Warriors are backed against the wall, Kerr makes a key adjustment, and the Cavs are just gassed and can't respond. LeBron in particular. You had to be concerned with that the way this series had gone. It felt like the Cavs had left absolutely everything they had on the floor already, and they keep on running out of energy in 4th quarters. All it took was one little adjustment and there are no extra troops for the Cavs to send in. And LeBron has been less than legendary.

Tonight, you saw GS's far superior talent and depth play a huge role. Bron only had the ball for 10.8 minutes tonight (about 26% of his total minutes) and GS forced other people to make plays. Mozzy stepped up, TT did his thing, but they have to get more from JR, Iman and Delly to than they did. Hard to call 20-12-8 a "bad game" from Bron, but he essentially needs to be a 40 PPG scorer if they want a chance.

Steph really is getting bailed out in this series by his teammates. He was slightly better Game 4, but again, not nearly as good as the MVP should play in the finals. Just imagine the beating Bron would be doing to this Cavs team with Steph's supporting cast.

 

[Padrino]

Tonight, you saw GS's far superior talent and depth play a huge role. Bron only had the ball for 10.8 minutes tonight (about 26% of his total minutes) and GS forced other people to make plays. Mozzy stepped up, TT did his thing, but they have to get more from JR, Iman and Delly to than they did. Hard to call 20-12-8 a "bad game" from Bron, but he essentially needs to be a 40 PPG scorer if they want a chance.

Steph really is getting bailed out in this series by his teammates. He was slightly better Game 4, but again, not nearly as good as the MVP should play in the finals. Just imagine the beating Bron would be doing to this Cavs team with Steph's supporting cast.

you could also see lebron purposefully attempting to get his teammates involved last night, passing on opportunities to be a one-man wrecking crew. he knows that he's not going to be able to drop 40 in every single game of the finals, and he knows that his teammates are going to need to hit a few shots if the cavs are going to be able to close the talent/depth gap even a little. jr smith and iman shumpert have been mostly terrible through four games. as much as i like him, the fact that timofey mozgov has become the robin to lebron's batman tells you a lot about how little 'bron has to work with...

 

[Tetsujin]

you could also see lebron purposefully attempting to get his teammates involved last night, passing on opportunities to be a one-man wrecking crew. he knows that he's not going to be able to drop 40 in every single game of the finals, and he knows that his teammates are going to need to hit a few shots if the cavs are going to be able to close the talent/depth gap even a little. jr smith and iman shumpert have been mostly terrible through four games. as much as i like him, the fact that timofey mozgov has become the robin to lebron's batman tells you a lot about how little 'bron has to work with...

Lebron is missing Robin, Batgirl, Alfred, and the Batmobile has a flat tire. The fact that the Cavs even won two games is a miracle itself.

 

[The_Jamal]

Steph finally playing like the MVP tonight. Still, it's absurd that Bron is going to lose this series because he isn't getting any help. You pretty much cannot play the game of basketball better than he is right now.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

Steph finally playing like the MVP tonight. Still, it's absurd that Bron is going to lose this series because he isn't getting any help. You pretty much cannot play the game of basketball better than he is right now.

his shooting % says otherwise

 

[The_Jamal]

his shooting % says otherwise

I view efficiency as= to the bible, but who cares? Sometimes you just have to through analytics out the window and watch what's happening. Bron is doing everything for this Cavs team and is equalizing a massive talent gap by himself on the biggest stage. The only time the Warriors are able to make a run is at the end of the game when Bron is run down from being on the floor for 40+ minutes and they have momentum on their side.

I doubt it would happen, but he should be the 2nd player ever to win finals MVP on a losing team. No one else is close.

 

[KingMilz]

The Warriors are essentially doing NBA 3.0 (something this board mocked all year) out there in the last 2 games

 

[pshn80]

I'm very happy for the Warriors. Hope they can close it out.

 

[lawlman91]

The Warriors are essentially doing NBA 3.0 (something this board mocked all year) out there in the last 2 games

Please. That's because they have the personnel to do so, and I commend them for doing that. We have our own weapons. Should we bend over backwards to copy "NBA 3.0"? No! I don't think it was worth destroying this year's Malone team that at least looked like it was going to see success. We shouldn't destroy seeds of hope. If we see seeds of hope under Karl, even if he runs "NBA 3.0", I'm O.K. with that.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

The Warriors are essentially doing NBA 3.0 (something this board mocked all year) out there in the last 2 games

Let me know when we get the best shooter in NBA history on our team and a great roster around him, and then maybe i'll approve some smallball BS

 

[Chubbs]

The Warriors are essentially doing NBA 3.0 (something this board mocked all year) out there in the last 2 games

I'm sure the kings would have huge success benching boogie, moving Rudy to center, and running Nik, Ben, dwill and DC with him.

We should totally try that!

 

[HndsmCelt]

Let me know when we get the best shooter in NBA history on our team and a great roster around him, and then maybe i'll approve some smallball BS

It also helps to face an opponent with 3 starters out.

 

[kingjatt]

if you count Varejao its actually 4 starters missing.

The refs continuously let smaller defenders hack, pull, shove, flop and almost wrestle big players down without calling anything, this really has helped GS be ultra aggressive in the paint and stay small all game.

This Cavs team would not make the playoffs in the east without Lebron, they basically have no ball handler besides him. I don't buy into the new wave all small ball just yet, The warriors had a pretty convenient path to this championship(if they win), nothing earth shattering and will have to do it again to consider it a true revolution to the game.

 

[IfAt1st]

Yeah, I hate how it seems the NBA is deliberately hampering big men nowadays.
The way the refs call it, the handsy defense is more viable than body defense.

What I don;t get is how Lebron can keep backing down his defender to get into the paint, and then make a spin move for a layup, but if Demarcus does that same move, the defender will flop half the time and he gets an offensive foul.

This is the 3rd time I've asked this year, but does ANYone know what the acceptable way is to back a defender down in the post without getting an offensive call?
I haven't seen one defender in the entire playoffs try to flop against Lebron's backing them down - how does that happen?!

 

[HereWeBoogie]

it's just the way the Warriors are built and the way this series is going that is allowing this to be successful. Their best players are guards and forwards, Bogut has been a detriment to them, they don't really have any other true bigs, and the Cavs don't have any bigs that can punish the Warriors for going small. So of course they are going to go this route.

If they were playing against a big man who was an offensive force in the paint, they wouldn't be able to do this

 

[est.1999]

Still think the Spurs would have wiped the Warriors out had they not given that series away to the clippers. And they would have repeated.

 

[KingsFanGER]

it's just the way the Warriors are built and the way this series is going that is allowing this to be successful. Their best players are guards and forwards, Bogut has been a detriment to them, they don't really have any other true bigs, and the Cavs don't have any bigs that can punish the Warriors for going small. So of course they are going to go this route.

If they were playing against a big man who was an offensive force in the paint, they wouldn't be able to do this

Excuse me but just from the eyetest the smallish lineup with Curry, Thompson, Iggy/Livingston, Barnes and Green was very successful all year.
Of course injuries play a huge part in the series. Of course you don't turn the Kings into a Warriors Clone. But what KingMilz said, was that this playstyle was looked down upon on this board all year, which is simply true. He didn't say the Kings should play like this. And as far I can remember no poster on this board ever said so.
You have to find ways to deal with this playstyle, while playing to your strengths. And even when you take the injuries into account, you can argue, that probably the best basketball player on this planet, has trouble beating this small ball BS by slowing it down and playing out of ISO's and posting up.

 

[KingsFanGER]

Still think the Spurs would have wiped the Warriors out had they not given that series away to the clippers. And they would have repeated.

Yes I think so too. Mainly because the Warriors don't have the experience and make too many stupid plays. But usually teams grow a lot, when they are able to compete in the Finals. So I think the Warriors will be even more dangerous the next year, if they manage to keep their players together.

 

[Chubbs]

Excuse me but just from the eyetest the smallish lineup with Curry, Thompson, Iggy/Livingston, Barnes and Green was very successful all year.
Of course injuries play a huge part in the series. Of course you don't turn the Kings into a Warriors Clone. But what KingMilz said, was that this playstyle was looked down upon on this board all year, which is simply true. He didn't say the Kings should play like this. And as far I can remember no poster on this board ever said so.
You have to find ways to deal with this playstyle, while playing to your strengths. And even when you take the injuries into account, you can argue, that probably the best basketball player on this planet, has trouble beating this small ball BS by slowing it down and playing out of ISO's and posting up.

The fact this became a series despite the cavs having 7 healthy bodies you can put on the court without cringing speaks pretty poorly of golden states style if you ask me.

The Warriors have an advantage everywhere but Lebron. Lebron is playing with 4 different starters from opening night. The Warriors have had no injuries, continuity, and vastly superior talent. And they still struggled badly for the first 3 games and were lucky to not be down 0-3. On paper, that just shouldn't have been possible.

 

[KingsFanGER]

The fact this became a series despite the cavs having 7 healthy bodies you can put on the court without cringing speaks pretty poorly of golden states style if you ask me.

The Warriors have an advantage everywhere but Lebron. Lebron is playing with 4 different starters from opening night. The Warriors have had no injuries, continuity, and vastly superior talent. And they still struggled badly for the first 3 games and were lucky to not be down 0-3. On paper, that just shouldn't have been possible.

They switched their starting 5 to small ball in game 4. And won 2 consecutive games. Even in the first 3 games, the small ball lineup was pretty effective. In the OT victory of game 1 they played the lineup in OT and the Cavs had really troubles to score at all.
I do not deny, that this series is decided by injuries. But GS was the best team in the NBA for a reason. They are in the finals for a reason. And they have run teams off the court with this small ball all year.
There is no reason to look down on it and act like this is some kind of fluke.
GS has all the tools to play big. Bogut is a decent center, Lee is an above average PF. But still Kerr decides to go small even versus teams, who should be able to punish it.

 

[Albatros]

it's just the way the Warriors are built and the way this series is going that is allowing this to be successful. Their best players are guards and forwards, Bogut has been a detriment to them, they don't really have any other true bigs, and the Cavs don't have any bigs that can punish the Warriors for going small. So of course they are going to go this route.

If they were playing against a big man who was an offensive force in the paint, they wouldn't be able to do this

Like Marc Gasol or Z-BO?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I do not deny, that this series is decided by injuries. But GS was the best team in the NBA for a reason. They are in the finals for a reason. And they have run teams off the court with this small ball all year.
There is no reason to look down on it and act like this is some kind of fluke.

On the contrary, I think the bolded sentence is exactly why it's reasonable to call this a fluke.

No matter how this series plays out, we're going to see our fifth different championship team in the last six years: that's the most different champions in a single decade since the seventies, and the decade is only half over. None of the previous champions this decade played particularly like each other, and none of them played particularly like either of the teams in the Finals right now. So, there's no real reason to believe that there's any trend that you can bet the farm on. As you already pointed out, the Warriors didn't just get a couple of lucky breaks, they got all the breaks.

If you're a person who likes the style of basketball that the Warriors play (and I feel obliged to admit that I'm not), and you took offense to all the people who denigrated their style of play (and I feel obliged to admit that I did) then, if you want to pop your collar and thump your chest and say, "I told you so!" about the Warriors winning, then you get to do that. But, given what's already happened this decade, it's entirely reasonable to call it a fluke until they do it again, or at least get back to the Finals.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Like Marc Gasol or Z-BO?

IIRC, Gasol averaged almost 20/11, and Randolph averaged something like 17/9, on 50 percent shooting. Let's not pretend that the Grizzlies lost because the Warriors stopped those guys, or because feeding them didn't work.

If anything, these playoffs have reinforced my belief that defense is more important than offense. Specifically, you need versatility about your defense: you need to have multiple guys who can defend multiple positions, guys who can guard either guy, coming off a switch. That, and depth: if the Cavaliers had nine guys that could play, this would be a very different series.

 

[Chubbs]

They switched their starting 5 to small ball in game 4. And won 2 consecutive games. Even in the first 3 games, the small ball lineup was pretty effective. In the OT victory of game 1 they played the lineup in OT and the Cavs had really troubles to score at all.
I do not deny, that this series is decided by injuries. But GS was the best team in the NBA for a reason. They are in the finals for a reason. And they have run teams off the court with this small ball all year.
There is no reason to look down on it and act like this is some kind of fluke.
GS has all the tools to play big. Bogut is a decent center, Lee is an above average PF. But still Kerr decides to go small even versus teams, who should be able to punish it.

And the reason they are the best team is because they have the most overall talent and the best defense.

They played small ball last year. And the year before. And in every 4th quarter this entire series. Switching iggy in wasn't revolutionary. He was already playing almost 35 mpg (31, 36 and 36 minutes the first three games).

The cavs as currently assembled should not be able to punish the Warriors in any way on any court at any time anywhere in the world. Lebron is great, but, I mean, that's one of the least talented finals teams you'll ever see in the cavs. How many of the cavs 7 healthy bodies would even make the Warriors team? Mozgov as backup? Thompson as a deep bench guy? Delly Jones and shumpert would not make the Warriors team. And they wouldn't want, or need, a guy like JR smith.

This series is grossly lopsided.

They're not running the cavs off the court. They've held them to 91 or less the last two games and 100 or less every game. That's why they won.

They win with defense just like every other NBA champ. And this playoff run has been about as easy as any title team has ever had. They faced teams with significant guard injuries every single round when that is their clear strength.

Small ball still makes no sense for the Kings as currently constructed. And to continue a poor mans attempt at copying them will continue to fail as the FO as yet has shown no indication they understand why the Warriors small ball works. And it's cause of great defense and an excess of talent. Who else has two former all stars on their bench?

 

[Ryan]

Is anyone watching this right now?

 

[PurpleHaze]

Cleveland turnovers, Cleveland air balls, not a great start as GSW taking advantage w/ 8 pt lead late Q1.