2013-14 Plan

[twslam07]

As the season nears, I’m getting back into my wild trade scenarios. I’ve been thinking for some time how I could possibly resurrect this roster. The GMs have definitely made it challenging for me with some of the peculiar signings, but I think I came up with a scenario that could help us down the road. Let’s get into it.

Before the Season

Sign a big body. We need a backup center desperately. There are still a few centers that could fill the void. They won’t give us much, but at least we won’t be at a size advantage when Cousins exits the game. I suggest signing Joel Przybilla to a 1 year minimum contract.

Begin negotiating a trade around Jimmer Fredette going to Utah. Fredette has played well in the preseason and I think his stock is as high as it’s ever been since he stepped onto an NBA court. With Burke going down, they need someone who can fill the void. Utah already has guys who can handle the ball and take away some of those ball handling woes from Fredette. Utah also needs floor spacing Fredette can definitely help with that. He won’t be very good defensively against a lot of the PGs in this league, but with Favors, Kanter, and even Biedrins in the paint, it shouldn’t be too big of deal.

It’s obvious that Utah is not playing for this year so it might make sense to take a flyer on a guy like Fredette and give him some big minutes consistently each game. It’s literally a win-win-win scenario for them. The team will make more money regardless of Fredettes success (1st win). If he pans out, score for them (2nd win)! If he doesn’t, they probably end up with a better pick in next year’s loaded draft (3rd win).

So what would the Jazz be willing to give up? They don’t have very much frontcourt depth. They have Favors and Kanter who are solid players, but behind them they have Biedrins, J. Evans, and Gobert. Biedrins can be good in short stints (10-15 minutes), but he is not a guy you want as your third big off the bench. Evans isn’t very skilled either. He’s yet to find his place in this league and I’m not banking on the fact that he’ll find it this year. Gobert was projected as one of the rawest prospects coming out of the draft. I’m not sure he’s ready for big time minutes.

They do have a plethora of wingers (granted some are banged up). Hayward, Burks, Rush, Jefferson, and M. Williams can all provide value. I would suggest we go after M. Williams. He’s currently hurt, but I still think he’s an upgrade over our current SFs. Plus his contract expires at the end of the year which will give us more cap to work with next offseason.

This is the trade I came up with:

Jimmer Fredette
Chuck Hayes

For

Marvin Williams

Like I noted above, Utah can’t lose by taking Fredette. He’ll bring in more revenue and either blossom or fail (which will give them a lower draft pick). Hayes will give them some more stability to their frontcourt. Hayes will be surrounded by big shot blockers which will actually give him a chance to showcase his value. He can also help develop the post defense of his young teammates (Favors, Kanter, Gobert).

Williams will give us an upgrade at SF and allow us to free up some cap space next year so we can be more active in free agency.

Utah After the Trade:
Burke/Fredette/Lucas/Clark
Burks/Rush/McNeal
Hayward/Jefferson
Favors/Hayes/Evans
Kanter/Biedrins/Gobert

Sacramento After the Trade (and Signing):
Vasquez/Thomas/McCallum
Thornton/McLemore/Salmons/Lockett
Williams/Moute/Outlaw
Patterson/Thompson/Landry
Cousins/Przybilla/Ndiaye

Trade Deadline
Clear up the log jam at PG and PF. When Landry comes back towards the trade deadline it makes our big men more expendable because we have 3 PFs who deserve playing time. Also, with McCallum waiting in the wings, it’s likely that he will begin to see some action. However, with Vasquez and Thomas in front of him, it will make it difficult for him to get playing time. I like what I see so far out of Vasquez. He likes to get Cousins the ball. For that reason, I’m putting Thomas on the chopping block. I think he can be a sixth man type player in this league which can make him a valuable trade piece.

One thing we’re still missing from this team is a big man who can knock down jumpshots, defend the post, defend athletic PFs, rebound, and block shots. There’s not many out there, but one that I particularly like is Taj Gibson. I think he would be an excellent complement next to Cousins.

What would the Bulls want for him? Chicago has an extremely good starting lineup (Rose, Butler, Deng, Boozer, Noah), but their bench could be improved. This is where Sacramento comes in. Other than Gibson, Chicago has a 36 year old Mohammed and a 2nd round rookie PF (Murphy). They need some frontcourt depth badly.

Their guard depth is also not very good. They have Hinrich who can swing back and forth between PG and SG. I happen to like Hinrich a lot, but he’s getting up there in age and he’s not as efficient from the floor as he used to be. After Hinrich, they have Teague, who rarely saw the floor last year, Lucas, and Christopher who both are undrafted signings. You could argue Snell could probably swing over and play SG, but his natural position is SG. I’m not sure if the Bulls want to start their rookie out playing out of position.

This is the trade I came up with:

Patrick Patterson
Jason Thompson
Isaiah Thomas

For

Taj Gibson
Tony Snell

Like I mentioned before, this trade gives Chicago some much needed depth in both the backcourt and frontcourt which sets them up for another deep run into the playoffs. It might be hard to pry Snell away in this deal so if Chicago isn’t having it, we can include one of the undrafted signings to make salaries match.

If we can bring over Snell, he will be a promising SF prospect for us in the future. He’s a 3 and D type player who has the ability to be a lockdown defender. There were reports that we were interested in him before the draft. We just weren’t in the right position to take him.

Chicago After the Trade:
Rose/Thomas/Teague/Lucas
Butler/Hinrich/Christopher
Deng/Dunleavy
Boozer/Patterson/Murphy
Noah/Thompson/Mohammed

Sacramento After the Trade:
Vasquez/McCallum
Thornton/McLemore/Salmons/Lockett
Williams/Moute/Outlaw/Snell
Gibson/Landry
Cousins/Przybilla/Ndiaye

Offseason
During the offseason, we will have Vasquez, Salmons, Williams, and Przybilla coming off the books. Vasquez will be a restricted free agent next season. Although he is refreshing player to watch, I don’t see him leading our team to a championship. I would prefer someone who is a plus defender at PG with so many elite scoring PGs around, you have to be able to slow them down somewhat. Lowry will be a free agent this offseason. He’s a player I always liked. He’s a competitor who will give you everything he’s got. If we sign him to around 5-7 mil a year, we’ll be right around 55-57 mil.

I suggest next year that we try and move Landry’s contract for an expiring. Across Cousins, Gibson, and Landry, that is way too much money to be dumping into a 3 player frontcourt. We can find a very serviceable third big for around 3.5-4 mil. If we are able to trade Landry away, we’ll be sitting at around 35-40 mil in the 2015 offseason. Giving us approximately 20-25 mil to make a splash in free agency and finally sure up that SF position for good!

Our future roster could look something like…

PG - Lowry/McCallum
SG - McLemore
SF - FA or 2014 draft pick/Snell
PF - Gibson
C – Cousins

I think that could be a very good core for years to come.

 

[TyFreak Evans]

That Bulls deal AIN'T gonna happen. NO CHANCE we give up so much for so little in return.

 

[Hadlowe]

That Bulls deal AIN'T gonna happen. NO CHANCE we give up so much for so little in return.

Really? Taj Gibson was a better version of Jason Thompson last year. He is an athletic plus defender and a decent (though not elite) rim protector. His game around the rim isn't great, but he added a 15 foot jumper in the offseason to make him something other than an offensive liability. He isn't going to take touches away from Cousins either.

Tony Snell is the prize in that trade. He has the length and athleticism to be a lesser Batum. I kind of doubt the Bulls pull that trigger for that reason.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Really? Taj Gibson was a better version of Jason Thompson last year. He is an athletic plus defender and a decent (though not elite) rim protector. His game around the rim isn't great, but he added a 15 foot jumper in the offseason to make him something other than an offensive liability. He isn't going to take touches away from Cousins either.

Tony Snell is the prize in that trade. He has the length and athleticism to be a lesser Batum. I kind of doubt the Bulls pull that trigger for that reason.

I don't know if you can say that Gibson was a "better" version of JT. Gibson definitely had more blocked shots than JT, but aside from that JT was equal to or beat Gibson out on all the per-36 stats. Maybe Gibson is a better defender; he's also making $2M more per year than JT for the same length deal.

Gibson is, at best, a small upgrade to JT and even then only on the defensive end. For that upgrade we give up IT and PPat? No thanks.

I do note that this sequence of trades sends away three big men and gets one back. While Landry is out we would be relying on some sort of major question mark to be a major rotation player (our #3 big!) Przybilla? Dude is done. Even N'Diaye, whom Malone is praising left and right would hardly seem ready (or able?) for 20+ minutes.

Ultimately, here we're looking at sending IT/JT/Patterson/Hayes (that's 3.5 rotation players) for Gibson/Williams/Snell (maybe 1.5 rotation players, if Williams reaches 0.5 of a rotation player at this point). Nuh-uh. Not for me.

 

[Hadlowe]

I don't know if you can say that Gibson was a "better" version of JT. Gibson definitely had more blocked shots than JT, but aside from that JT was equal to or beat Gibson out on all the per-36 stats. Maybe Gibson is a better defender; he's also making $2M more per year than JT for the same length deal.

Gibson is, at best, a small upgrade to JT and even then only on the defensive end. For that upgrade we give up IT and PPat? No thanks.

I do note that this sequence of trades sends away three big men and gets one back. While Landry is out we would be relying on some sort of major question mark to be a major rotation player (our #3 big!) Przybilla? Dude is done. Even N'Diaye, whom Malone is praising left and right would hardly seem ready (or able?) for 20+ minutes.

Ultimately, here we're looking at sending IT/JT/Patterson/Hayes (that's 3.5 rotation players) for Gibson/Williams/Snell (maybe 1.5 rotation players, if Williams reaches 0.5 of a rotation player at this point). Nuh-uh. Not for me.

I'm kind of assuming that IT will not be back next year. I'd like to see the Kings turn him into something valuable rather than just let him walk.

From watching lots of the Bulls and Kings over the last few years, Taj is definitely the better defender out of JT and Taj. Part of that is definitely attributable to Thib's system, but I think he just has better defensive instincts in general. He is certainly more athletic. Ideally, you'd want an elite rim protector next to Cousins, but there are only about 5 of those in the league at any one time and we don't have a fast track on any of them. Barring that, you want a solid post defender with decent rim protection. Gibson gets you that plus the new mid-range jumper.

I just don't see the Bulls letting him go. I think they are planning to use him to replace Boozer in the front court.

 

[macadocious]

I dont understand either of those deal, they make us marginally better. What is the point?

 

[twslam07]

I don't know if you can say that Gibson was a "better" version of JT. Gibson definitely had more blocked shots than JT, but aside from that JT was equal to or beat Gibson out on all the per-36 stats. Maybe Gibson is a better defender; he's also making $2M more per year than JT for the same length deal.

Gibson is, at best, a small upgrade to JT and even then only on the defensive end. For that upgrade we give up IT and PPat? No thanks.

I do note that this sequence of trades sends away three big men and gets one back. While Landry is out we would be relying on some sort of major question mark to be a major rotation player (our #3 big!) Przybilla? Dude is done. Even N'Diaye, whom Malone is praising left and right would hardly seem ready (or able?) for 20+ minutes.

Ultimately, here we're looking at sending IT/JT/Patterson/Hayes (that's 3.5 rotation players) for Gibson/Williams/Snell (maybe 1.5 rotation players, if Williams reaches 0.5 of a rotation player at this point). Nuh-uh. Not for me.

This statement is false. If you read my post more carefully, you would have realized I would not have left our team in this circumstance. We traded Hayes away at the beginning of the season and signed Przybilla. That means we would have Cousins, Thompson, Patterson, Przybilla, and Ndiaye as bigs. I count 3 bigs before our FA signing would be inserted into the rotation. At the trade deadline, when Landry is supposed to be back (3-4 month recovery and trade deadline is 4 months away), we trade away Patterson and Thompson and get back Gibson. That means we would have Cousins, Gibson, Landry, Przybilla, and Ndiaye as bigs. I count 3 bigs before our FA signing would be inserted into the rotation.

In no shape or form do I leave Przybilla as our third big off the bench.

I don't agree with your rotation player argument (3.5 vs. 1.5). Part of the problem with this team is we have too many rotational players. In my eyes, it is time to upgrade some of those players. In your eyes, you don't think Gibson is that much of an upgrade over Thompson. You're right, they do look very similar on paper. I will give you the differences I see between them from watching both of them play. Gibson is definitely more athletic and knows where to be on defense as well as offense (some might call it BBIQ). Gibson is a much better defender and that is not to put down Thompson's defense which I think is adequate, but Gibson knows what he is doing on that side of the ball. As someone mentioned, he is not an elite shot blocker, but he'll net you a couple of blocks a game if you give him starters minutes. We need a player like that who can deny our opponents easy buckets when they get past our weak perimeter defenders (Vasquez, Thomas, Fredette, Thornton).

Again, you're right in saying they are similar players. The main difference is that I can point out what Gibson is better at than Thompson but I can't do that the other way around.

I think you are underestimating Snell's value too. I think he can be a very solid player in this league. Hes has the makings of a complimentary role player in a starting lineup. Great defender, athleticism, length, and shooting.

 

[twslam07]

I dont understand either of those deal, they make us marginally better. What is the point?

I guess the question you have to ask yourself is who do you see as the future of this team? I see Cousins, McLemore, and McCallum. I would include Thompson as our third big of the future and Thomas as our sixth man of the future, but those players are normally added to a team once your core players are on your roster. We don't have that yet. It's very difficult to add core players to a team full of role players because they take up a lot of your salary cap.

I still think this team needs to be refreshed pretty thoroughly, and if we hold on to guys like Thompson, Patterson, Thomas, Fredette, and Hayes it gives us less flexibility to set out and find that core that we can start building around. This is why most of my proposals either gives us cap space to acquire a core player (cap relief from M. Williams) or they actually bring a core player onto the team (Gibson).

Basketball is a game of quality, not quantity. Unfortunately, the Kings are heavily tilted towards the quantity side.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I'm kind of assuming that IT will not be back next year. I'd like to see the Kings turn him into something valuable rather than just let him walk.

I'm leaning that way as well - that IT will likely not be back. Naturally I would also prefer to trade him for something valuable rather than to just let him walk. But I think we give up too much in this particular trade relative to what we get back.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

If you read my post more carefully, you would have realized I would not have left our team in this circumstance. ... At the trade deadline, when Landry is supposed to be back (3-4 month recovery and trade deadline is 4 months away), we trade away Patterson and Thompson and get back Gibson. That means we would have Cousins, Gibson, Landry, Przybilla, and Ndiaye as bigs. I count 3 bigs before our FA signing would be inserted into the rotation.

You are correct, I failed to note that the second trade was intended to be a deadline trade. Under the assumption that Landry is back in action at the time of the trade, we would retain a legitimate 3-man big man rotation (Cuz/JT/Patterson before the trade, Cuz/Gibson/Landry after). Still, we do have 3.5-4 rotational bigs right now even with Landry hurt so we do take a bit of a hit trading Hayes away preseason.

I continue to disagree with the idea of signing Przybilla. He played 68 whole minutes last year. Over the last four years combined he has only made an appearance in 1 out of every three possible games. He's done.

I don't agree with your rotation player argument (3.5 vs. 1.5). Part of the problem with this team is we have too many rotational players. In my eyes, it is time to upgrade some of those players. In your eyes, you don't think Gibson is that much of an upgrade over Thompson.

We do have a decent number of rotation players now. We do need to consolidate a bit. But if we're going to essentially drop two rotation players in trade, I'd like to get a serious upgrade. JT to Gibson looks like a minor upgrade at best (it's possible it doesn't even work out, especially considering Gibson's extra salary).

I think you are underestimating Snell's value too. I think he can be a very solid player in this league. Hes has the makings of a complimentary role player in a starting lineup. Great defender, athleticism, length, and shooting.

I just wanted to point out that you said we had too many rotation players, then tried to sell Snell on the basis that he might become a rotation player.

 

[Hadlowe]

I just wanted to point out that you said we had too many rotation players, then tried to sell Snell on the basis that he might become a rotation player.

I took what he said as Snell being the SF of the future. He is definitely a 3 and D guy. He shot 39% from the college 3 and did well in summer league and in limited minutes in preseason. He is 6'7" in shoes with a 7' wingspan. He weighs in at just a shade under 200 lbs, but only has 4% body fat. He will have to add some muscle.

For comparison sake, Nicolas Batum is 6'7.5" in shoes with a 7'.5" wingspan.

 

[KingMilz]

I would love Tony Snell and Taj Gibson would be a perfect fit next to Cousins, he's better than Thompson without any question, I would do that deal for sure.

 

[twslam07]

You are correct, I failed to note that the second trade was intended to be a deadline trade. Under the assumption that Landry is back in action at the time of the trade, we would retain a legitimate 3-man big man rotation (Cuz/JT/Patterson before the trade, Cuz/Gibson/Landry after). Still, we do have 3.5-4 rotational bigs right now even with Landry hurt so we do take a bit of a hit trading Hayes away preseason.

I continue to disagree with the idea of signing Przybilla. He played 68 whole minutes last year. Over the last four years combined he has only made an appearance in 1 out of every three possible games. He's done.

I think you're getting way too hung up on Przybilla. He was just an example I was using of a guy we could sign. Collins, Diop, Petro, Gooden, and Barron are other options we could consider.

We do have a decent number of rotation players now. We do need to consolidate a bit. But if we're going to essentially drop two rotation players in trade, I'd like to get a serious upgrade. JT to Gibson looks like a minor upgrade at best (it's possible it doesn't even work out, especially considering Gibson's extra salary).

I guess you don't see what the rest of us see in terms of Gibson's skill level, and that is why we're butting heads on this trade.

I just wanted to point out that you said we had too many rotation players, then tried to sell Snell on the basis that he might become a rotation player.

You are right. I think Snell can become a great rotational player. Do I think he is one right now? Of course not, but maybe one day. With that logic in mind, that means we would only be getting back "1.5 rotational players" in these two trades with the potential of developing another one in the future. Hopefully by this time, we would have rid ourselves of some of these other rotational players we can do without.

 

[twslam07]

I took what he said as Snell being the SF of the future. He is definitely a 3 and D guy. He shot 39% from the college 3 and did well in summer league and in limited minutes in preseason. He is 6'7" in shoes with a 7' wingspan. He weighs in at just a shade under 200 lbs, but only has 4% body fat. He will have to add some muscle.

For comparison sake, Nicolas Batum is 6'7.5" in shoes with a 7'.5" wingspan.

I'm not sure I would call him our SF of the future as I tend to think we're going to need to find our #2 option at SF (Cousins #1, McLemore #3). I don't think Snell has that potential. I could be wrong, but that's just my opinion. I could see him being an outstanding backup winger for McLemore and our #2 option at SF.

If we end up having our #2 option at PG, I see no reason why Snell couldn't be our SF of the future. I see him carving out a role similar to Sefolosha. I just worry having two of our top scorers at PG and SG, but with McLemore's offball movement and sharpshooting, it's possible. It's when you get two ball dominant guys in the backcourt is when you usually have trouble (e.g. Jennings/Ellis).

 

[twslam07]

I would love Tony Snell and Taj Gibson would be a perfect fit next to Cousins, he's better than Thompson without any question, I would do that deal for sure.

I agree. I think this deal would help us tremendously going forward.

Do you see the Bulls going for it? I mentioned they might only do it if we left Snell out of the offer.

 

[randymoss1881]

Bulls arnt trading Gibson let alone snell for what we have.

 

[hrdboild]

Now that the season has actually started, I don't see a lot of urgency to patch these holes in our rotation right now. If it wasn't already obvious that this would be a lost season, the Landry injury and the revelation that Mbah A Moute might not be healthy the entire season removed all uncertainty. But while I'm not all that thrilled about watching the games right now, I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing for the franchise. Cousins, McLemore, and Malone are what this season is about and to a lesser extent the PG situation with IT, Vasquez, and McCallum. The Landry signing looks like a mistake unless we can find a taker for Jason Thompson but his injury puts him on the shelf at least long enough for JT to prove his worth to possible suitors. We're almost in position now to take advantage of someone talented slipping through the cracks either because their GM is jettisoning talent in exchange for lottery tickets (Philly, Phoenix, Utah, Boston) or they're capped out and can't afford another big deal (New York, OKC, Houston, Miami, Minnesota). If DeMarcus and Ben continue to develop as planned, all it really takes is one good deal to return this team to relevancy. But it has to be the right deal for the right player. In the meantime, patience is the key. You don't want to see some other team score big on a great young player because you've blown your resources pursuing Nene or Al Jefferson or Rudy Gay.

 

[sdballer]

Saw something similar posted on a Bulls board and with a few tweaks, could see this as a possibility for the Kings. Not sure Utah gets enough but if they fear Hayward would leave, maybe they'd consider:

Kings out:
Jason Thompson
Marcus Thornton
Chuck Hayes

Kings in:
Taj Gibson
Brandon Rush
Richard Jefferson
Chicago 1st round pick

____________
Bulls out:
Luol Deng
Taj Gibson
Tony Snell
Marquis Teague
1st round pick (Chi)
1st round pick (Cha)

Bulls in:
Gordon Hayward
Jason Thompson
Marcus Thornton

____________
Jazz out:
Gordon Hayward
Brandon Rush
Richard Jefferson

Jazz in:
Luol Deng
Tony Snell
Marquis Teague
Chuck Hayes
1st round pick (Cha)

 

[twslam07]

Saw something similar posted on a Bulls board and with a few tweaks, could see this as a possibility for the Kings. Not sure Utah gets enough but if they fear Hayward would leave, maybe they'd consider:

Kings out:
Jason Thompson
Marcus Thornton
Chuck Hayes

Kings in:
Taj Gibson
Brandon Rush
Richard Jefferson
Chicago 1st round pick

____________
Bulls out:
Luol Deng
Taj Gibson
Tony Snell
Marquis Teague
1st round pick (Chi)
1st round pick (Cha)

Bulls in:
Gordon Hayward
Jason Thompson
Marcus Thornton

____________
Jazz out:
Gordon Hayward
Brandon Rush
Richard Jefferson

Jazz in:
Luol Deng
Tony Snell
Marquis Teague
Chuck Hayes
1st round pick (Cha)

I would do that in a heartbeat. We get cap space, our PF of the future next to Cousins, and a 1st round pick next year? That sounds like a no brainer.

Lineup after Trade:
PG - Vasquez/Thomas/Fredette/McCallum
SG - Rush/McLemore/Salmons
SF - Jefferson/Outlaw/Moute
PF - Gibson/Landry/Patterson
C - Cousins/Ndiaye

Lineup excluding players who are free agents next year:
PG - McCallum
SG - McLemore
SF - Outlaw/Moute
PF - Gibson/Landry
C - Cousins

If we're able to move Landry for a player that actually makes sense to have on our roster or cap relief for the 2015 season (when Outlaw and Moute come off the books), we'll be set to start building our team around a core of Cousins, Gibson, McLemore, McCallum, Sac 2014 1st round pick, Chi 2014 1st round pick, Sac 2014 2nd round pick, Sac 2015 1st round pick, and Sac 2015 2nd round pick.

We would be free of all of our useless players. That's something to get excited about. Well at least for me it is.