Vlade4GM
All-Star
That's not what I meant. I meant two guards that rely primarily on having the ball in their hands to be effective.
2009-10 Kings draft position thread
- Thread starter fnordius
- Start date
That's not what I meant. I meant two guards that rely primarily on having the ball in their hands to be effective.
Vlade4GM
All-Star
I read somewhere that Aldrich has a 7'5 wingspan. Now that's not the same as standing reach, but still that's pretty good for a guy who's probably 6'10 barefoot.
hammystyle
Starter
See that sounds all wrong to me and doesn't jive with what I've seen at all. Defensive wimp? He was the defensive player of the year in the conference. He hads 11 rebounds and 2.7 bpg in 29.6 mpg. And he looks very long on the court to me. Long, mobile, body with very long arms. Like a thicker Kevin McHale. I obviously can't verify it now, but I'll bet he measures out taller than Hawes, and will certainly have a taller reach.
If anything, the 6'11" might not be giving him enough credit.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
hammystyle
Starter
Magic Johnson and Norm Nixon....though thats not perfect since Nixon eventually wanted out of town.
John Salmons and Derrick Rose played together well last year...though not as well this year.
Shoot...how bout Tony Parker and Manu? Manu can shoot, but both their strengths are in driving and scorning near the rim.
Gilbert Arenas and Larry Hughes played well together their last year in Washingtoon.
Its difficult to find good comparisons, not because it can't work, but because its difficult to find a lot of comps to Evans.
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MassachusettsKingsFan
All-Star
I would be against drafting anyone that would be a liability on defense. Aldrich is a nice player, but that fact that he isnt an above average defender turns me off.
This year was nice, We drafted two average to above average defenders in Evans and Casspi .. I dont want to go back to the Doubys ( cant defend because hes undersized ) or the Hawes ( cant defend because he is a soft player ) ..
We need to keep drafting capable defenders.
This year was nice, We drafted two average to above average defenders in Evans and Casspi .. I dont want to go back to the Doubys ( cant defend because hes undersized ) or the Hawes ( cant defend because he is a soft player ) ..
We need to keep drafting capable defenders.
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Vlade4GM
All-Star
How is Aldrich soft or undersized?
Oscar Robertson and Adrian Smith
MassachusettsKingsFan
All-Star
I didn't say he was. Douby was undersized ( meaning I don't want us to draft a player that IS undersized because that makes that player a liability on defense )
Aldrich has decent size for a bigman, but he isn't a great defender, and at this point I rather draft a great defender ( maybe that's alabi, maybe it isn't ) than a great scorer.
Vlade4GM
All-Star
You're rarely going to find a great scorer or defender in the draft, it normally takes some time for them to become great. However, I don't know if Aldrich will ever be a great defender, a solid defender probably. Alabi has the tools to be a big time shot blocker. Still, you take the bpa, not whoever has an outside shot at being something specific like a great shot blocker. If Alabi looks like a good defending big like Theo Ratliff by the end of the year, but Motiejunas is looking like a Dirk/Pau type player then I might have to go with him.
MassachusettsKingsFan
All-Star
No doubt Montiejunas and aldrich have a better offensive games than Alabi, but do we really want to draft based offensive potential again? When do we draft someone based off of defensve potential? Unless montejunas and aldrich are prolific scorers from the INSIDE I want no part of them. We can't afford to have anymore outsid big men on this team unless we rid ourselves of the ones that are on our team right now. Were never going to improve our D unless we get players who are capable of playing good defense.
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Kingster
Hall of Famer
I must have seen in him on a day in which he looked particularly small. He just didn't have a defensive presence out there. Will be tuning into his games this year to see if my initial size estimate was wrong.
Vlade4GM
All-Star
I wouldn't really consider Aldrich to have that much offensive upside in the NBA, more than Alabi probably but I wouldn't classify him as an offensive player, but a rebounder/shotblocker who can probably develop into a good garbage point and pick and pop player.
First of all I'd like to clear up that I'm in no way saying that I believe Motiejunas will be the next Dirk or Gasol, I have no idea, but I'm just making a point that if we thought he would than we'd be better off taking him because players like that have far more value. Now if the disparity between perceived overall value is not significant, then yeah you go with need, but if it is significant then you have to go with greater value and work out the kinks later, or perhaps even on draft night. It's not ideal to be moving guys around constantly, but we first have to build a valuable young core before we're ever able to become contenders, drafting role players with top 5 picks is not going to get us anywhere. Although I'm not trying to condemn Alabi to that, just making a point.
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Kingster
Hall of Famer
If you're looking at these players, you weigh the pluses and minuses, and you really think that their overall talent is pretty much the same, then you're darn right we better choose the defensive guy over the offensive guy, because we need interior defense. And I think you just have to give athleticism a bigger weight in your weighted average analysis than shooting. It's exactly like Reynolds has said with Tyreke - you can improve your shooting, but not your athletic ability.
I really think this last draft was a watershed event for Kings management. I don't think it was just a one-off event in which they they decided to give more weight to athleticism and toughness. I think they got their soft, nice shooting faces rubbed into it repeatedly last year and they are forever traumatized by the experience. I expect next year's draft to be more of the same - an emphasis on athleticism and toughness. That translates to more DEFENSE.
hammystyle
Starter
Where or who said Aldrich can't play D? Awards are not the end-all be-all....but he was the (co) Big 12 Defensive Player of the year! He's a great rebounder who blocks shots. He's long, mobile and has a thick enough body to anchor the post. I'm not saying he's the second-coming of Bill Russell, but he'll be a solid defensive center in the pro's.
I've seen Alabi too, he catches your eye with that size and mobility, that's for sure. If he looks like a young Olajuwon this year, count me in. But if he looks like Thabeet...I'd rather have Aldrich.
Alabi in particular will have a lot of NBA-caliber big men to deal with in the ACC. So that'll be interesting.
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MassachusettsKingsFan
All-Star
I just don't buy Aldrichs defense. He isn't vey athletic... He just kind of slow and seems uncordinated to me. He could prove me wrong this year, but I think he'll have a tough time guarding a lot of NBA centers unless he improves his foot speed and lateral quickness. It's been almost a year since I've seen him play, but he just doesn't do it for me..
Please don't take this the wrong way though. I'm not saying I want Alabi.. I have to see him play ALOT more before I make that judgement, but as of now I'm more excited by his potential than I am with Aldrich ( or Monroe ) because he has better physical attributes when it comes to defense.
I disagree with you about Thabeet. If Alabi shows me what Thabeet did this year ( ability to change shots ) I'd consider that a big positive for Alabi... I think it's crazy that Memphis isn't playing Thabeet right now.
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Kingster
Hall of Famer
I thought Alabi showed more offensively than Thabeet last year and as much defensive potential. Better hands, better coordination. better footwork, and even showed a jump hook on rare occassions that looked pretty darned fluid. Definitely a work in progress, but at least with Alabi you can see that he has the athleticism to get there eventually. It will be fun watching him this year to see if he's gotten better or not.
Has anyone else heard of this guy? DeWayne Dedmon
He won't be in the draft this year, but it was an interesting story anyway and he might be a prospect to possibly keep an eye on in the future (if only to see how much of the hyperbole is true).
He won't be in the draft this year, but it was an interesting story anyway and he might be a prospect to possibly keep an eye on in the future (if only to see how much of the hyperbole is true).
Widowmaker2k
Bench
If the season ended today, we'd be picking 16th. 
It's a good thing that we're only 8 games in.
Anyways, assuming we fall off, but not as hard as last year, we could realistically be picking in the 8-12 range (again). On the plus side, there should be some good defensive bigs in that range (though nbadraft.net has us taking 2 small forwards, which would put us at 6 small forwards). Larry Sanders looks interesting, he's an athletic 6'10", but with a 7'7" wingspan. Nbadraft.net has a pretty good little blurb on him that certainly piques my interest: "Already a bigtime shot blocker and is on his way to becoming an absolutely dominant one. As a freshman he averages just 16 minutes per game but is already tied for 10th in the country in blocked shots at 3.0 per game. His block per minute average is the best in the country." He's very raw on the offensive end, but we have Spence and JT to score points down there (theoretically), so I could totally be on board with picking Sanders (assuming, of course, that we don't have a chance at Wall, Favors, Davis, or Aldrich).
It's a good thing that we're only 8 games in.Anyways, assuming we fall off, but not as hard as last year, we could realistically be picking in the 8-12 range (again). On the plus side, there should be some good defensive bigs in that range (though nbadraft.net has us taking 2 small forwards, which would put us at 6 small forwards). Larry Sanders looks interesting, he's an athletic 6'10", but with a 7'7" wingspan. Nbadraft.net has a pretty good little blurb on him that certainly piques my interest: "Already a bigtime shot blocker and is on his way to becoming an absolutely dominant one. As a freshman he averages just 16 minutes per game but is already tied for 10th in the country in blocked shots at 3.0 per game. His block per minute average is the best in the country." He's very raw on the offensive end, but we have Spence and JT to score points down there (theoretically), so I could totally be on board with picking Sanders (assuming, of course, that we don't have a chance at Wall, Favors, Davis, or Aldrich).
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I'm late to this one, but I just had to jump in here. Aldrich is a lot more athletic than your giving him credit for. I had people telling me last year that Griffinn wasn't very athletic. Duh! Aldrich made a huge jump last year. He has a very good post game, and good timing on blocking shots. He has good technique blocking out for rebounds. He has very good length. Alabi is already a good defensive player. Very athletic, and as far as the Thabeet comparison. He's already head and shoulders ahead of Thabeet offensively. Now thats not saying much. But what I'm trying to say is that he gets it. Thabeet didn't, and apparently still doesn't.
But before we start passing judgement, I think it might be a good idea to wait and see them play this year. Both players, with a little luck should make the tourney.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
bajaden
Hall of Famer
If the season ended today, we'd be picking 16th.
Anyways, assuming we fall off, but not as hard as last year, we could realistically be picking in the 8-12 range (again). On the plus side, there should be some good defensive bigs in that range (though nbadraft.net has us taking 2 small forwards, which would put us at 6 small forwards). Larry Sanders looks interesting, he's an athletic 6'10", but with a 7'7" wingspan. Nbadraft.net has a pretty good little blurb on him that certainly piques my interest: "Already a bigtime shot blocker and is on his way to becoming an absolutely dominant one. As a freshman he averages just 16 minutes per game but is already tied for 10th in the country in blocked shots at 3.0 per game. His block per minute average is the best in the country." He's very raw on the offensive end, but we have Spence and JT to score points down there (theoretically), so I could totally be on board with picking Sanders (assuming, of course, that we don't have a chance at Wall, Favors, Davis, or Aldrich).
At the moment, this is a good draft for bigs. doesn't mean it will stay that way, but I don't think that appraisal will change much. When you start listing them all you start to want two first round picks.
Ed Davis: 6'9" PF. North Carolina, Soph.
Gani Lawal: 6'9" PF. Georgia Tech. Jr.
Patrick Patterson: 6'8" PF/SF. Kentucky. Jr.
Larry Sanders: 6'9" PF. VCU
Derrick Favors: 6'9" PF. Georgia Tech. Fr.
Dexter Pittman: 6'10" C/PF. Texas. Sr.
Cole Aldrich: 6'11" C. Kansas. Jr.
DeMarcus Cousins: 6'10" PF. Kentucky. Fr.
Craig Brackins: 6'10" PF. Iowa St. Jr.
Greg Monroe: 6'11" PF. GeorgeTown. Soph.
Soloman Alabi: 7'1" C. Flordia St. Soph.
Jerome Jordan: 7'0" C. Tulsa. Sr.
Andrew Oqilvy: 7'0" C. Vanderbilt. Jr.
Michael Washington: 6'10" PF. Arkansas. Sr.
Arinze Onuaku: 6'10" C/PF Syracuse. Sr.
John Henson: 6'10" C/PF. North Carolina. Fr.
Jarvis Varnado: 6'9" PF. Mississippi St. Sr.
Renardo Sidney: 6'9" PF. Mississippi ST. Fr.
Keith Benson: 6'11" C/PF. Oakland. Jr.
These are all guys to keep an eye on if your looking for a big. Obviously their not all going to be lottery picks. Or even first roung picks. But some of them will climb the boards this year, and some will fall. My pick to fall is DeMarcus Cousins. I hope I'm wrong. He has a good coach, so maybe he'll light a fire under him...
It certainly looks like a given at this point, but they just have to lose one game in the tournament to be out of it. Stranger things have happened.
I'm curious why you're down on Cousins bajaden. All I've seen of him was the McDonald's game. A lot of highly-touted players failed to impress me in that game, but Cousins actually looked pretty intriguing just from a raw tools perspective. He's got ideal size for a big man (the best in his rookie class) and a pretty good outside shot to go with his inside moves. I was pretty disappointed that all of the big men played pretty soft in that game, so perhaps he just came out looking better in comparison.
The guy who seems most likely to drop off to me is Renardo Sidney. He spent that whole game hoisting threes and playing no defense on anybody. And then add to that the obvious questions around his eligibility and work-ethic which forced him into playing for Mississippi State, and he could fall out of the first round entirely. Actually, looking at the latest mock drafts, that seems to be the consensus now on this guy.
I'm curious why you're down on Cousins bajaden. All I've seen of him was the McDonald's game. A lot of highly-touted players failed to impress me in that game, but Cousins actually looked pretty intriguing just from a raw tools perspective. He's got ideal size for a big man (the best in his rookie class) and a pretty good outside shot to go with his inside moves. I was pretty disappointed that all of the big men played pretty soft in that game, so perhaps he just came out looking better in comparison.
The guy who seems most likely to drop off to me is Renardo Sidney. He spent that whole game hoisting threes and playing no defense on anybody. And then add to that the obvious questions around his eligibility and work-ethic which forced him into playing for Mississippi State, and he could fall out of the first round entirely. Actually, looking at the latest mock drafts, that seems to be the consensus now on this guy.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I've read a lot about Cousins. Scouting reports that I suscribe to, and also watched him in the McDonalds and USA against the world games. He is reported to have a very bad work ethic. He's been able to dominate at every level up to now. But he's been bigger than everybody up till now. I probably shouldn't pre-judge him. He's a young kid, and I doubt Kentucky will put up with any nonsense. There's no doubt that he's talented.
I agree with you about Sidney, but he's not ranked as high, so the fall wouldn't be that far. I also agree that Kentucky should be one of the favorites going in. But were basing that on some young players jelling quickly, if at all. But if Wall and Cousins both turn out to be the real deal, then they should make a good run. Most of the time, not always, but mostly, the team that wins the NCAA tourney has a good mix of seniors, juniors, and up and coming sophmores and freshmen. Sometimes experience will win out over better talent.
Update:
1. NJN 0-13 .000
2. Minn. 1-11 .083
3-4. Cha/NYK 3-9 .250
5. Was 3-8 .273
6-7. Mem/GSW 3-9 .333
8. LAC 5-9 .357
9. NO 5-8 .385
10.SAS 4-6 .400
11. Phil/Det 5-7 .417
12. Sac 5-6 .455
Forecast: continued lousy position between now and the 28th. After that, expect fairly steady improvement through April 13th.
1. NJN 0-13 .000
2. Minn. 1-11 .083
3-4. Cha/NYK 3-9 .250
5. Was 3-8 .273
6-7. Mem/GSW 3-9 .333
8. LAC 5-9 .357
9. NO 5-8 .385
10.SAS 4-6 .400
11. Phil/Det 5-7 .417
12. Sac 5-6 .455
Forecast: continued lousy position between now and the 28th. After that, expect fairly steady improvement through April 13th.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
....and zones can throw the young guys for a loop.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
The Clipps continue to make new "heights" with their ineptitude. Their failure is an amazing phenomenon. WAS is not going to be in bottom 10. NJN should skyrocket after injured get back.
hammystyle
Starter
The one caveat about Cousins' reputation for a poor work ethic and attitude is that I heard similar things about Tyreke Evans heading into last year. Doesn't mean its not true, but Tyreke was all business his Freshman year at Memphis, and sure as hell looks serious now. Maybe Cousins will respond to better coaching and competition in a similar way. Or maybe he never will. I think one of the good things is that the extremely talented Wall, Bledsoe, Patterson, Orton group around him at Kentucky seems to be very driven as well. If he's lackadaisical it will stand out.
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