2007 Draft
- Thread starter no1kingsfan
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i'm not trying to dog on the guy or anything and i think i've changed my mind on picking mcroberts over him, but there are a lot of holes in his game especially defensively. and the mystery about his age bothers me too. it's just as of this moment i wouldn't pick him over noah or horford. too many int'l prospects that fit his description have fallen flat on their face and the signs are there that it can very well happen to him too. he's just a typical high risk high reward int'l big who lacks strength.
Here's an excerpt from a Chad Ford article that talks about international prospects, including Yi Jianlian and Tiago Splitter:
Yi Jianlian, F, 19 years old, China
Is Yi the next Yao?
Not really, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.
After almost being in the draft last year, Yi (or rather his Chinese team) announced that he'd be allowed to enter the 2007 draft. He hired agent Dan Fegan and has the buzz of a late lottery pick at the moment.
The similarities to Yao are there, but somewhat superficial. They both are Chinese and have dominated the Chinese Basketball Association league. But that's about it.
Yi is an athletic 7-footer who likes to play on the outside. He runs the floor, dunks on people and has a pretty nice handle. Some scouts compare him to Toni Kukoc.
Scouts are pretty evenly split on his draft prospects at the moment. A few of them love him and think he could go in the top 10 this year. Others are more skeptical and have him ranked as a mid-first rounder.
One interesting question: Does being from China help or hurt Yi?
On one hand, Yao's been immensely popular, and teams such as the Golden State Warriors and Seattle SuperSonics -- with potentially huge Asian fan bases -- would love to get Yi.
On the other hand, the team that drafts Yi will also have to deal with the red tape and the demanding offseason tournament schedule that Yi will have to play for his national team.
There's also the question of his age. Most scouts believe that Yi is actually 22, not 19 as he is listed by his team. Either way Yi is young. But his dominance over junior competition is not as impressive if he is three years older than everyone else.
Some scouts have seen Yi a lot more than others have, while some are relying on evaluations that are two years old. Especially for the latter group, workouts likely will be the key in determining where he falls on draft night.
Tiago Splitter, F/C, 21 years old, Brazil
By now, every draftnik in the world knows Splitter's name. He declared for -- and withdrew from -- the last three drafts. Even before that, he was on the NBA radar screen. He has played prominent roles for an elite Euroleague team, Tau Ceramica in Spain, and for the Brazilian national team. Exposure isn't a problem.
He's 7-feet tall, athletic and an excellent defender, with an improving offensive game. He's averaging 9.1 points per game and 6.1 rebounds in 24 minutes in Euroleague play this season. And finally, because of draft rules for international players, Splitter is in the draft automatically, and he can't withdraw.
Splitter has a couple of problems.
One, his contract requires a very large buyout with Tau Ceramica. Two drafts ago he had a window to get out of it, but NBA lottery teams didn't show enough interest in him, so he went back to Spain. With the Fran Vazquez fiasco fresh in everyone's mind, no one wants to spend a lottery pick on a guy unless they are sure he can come when they want him to.
Second, Splitter has lost the upside factor. His stock was especially damaged a couple of summers ago when he came to do a large group workout in front of 100 or so NBA talent evaluators in Chicago. I was there and Splitter didn't look great. (To be fair, he had just gotten off a plane from Spain and had never been in an environment like that before.) Before that event his stock had been very high -- afterward, not so much.
Since then he's improved in all facets of his game. His body has matured. And he's gotten wonderful experience playing against some of the best talent in the world. One of his former teammates, former Hawks player Travis Hansen, has raved to me about his work ethic and talent. But for some, Splitter, at 21, is practically a has-been.
Still, in most drafts he would be a top-10 pick. In this loaded draft, with the issues he's facing, I'm not so sure. He needs to come over and do workouts with individual teams, but his season might not end early enough. Furthermore, he needs to clarify his buyout situation with NBA teams.
I've still got him in the late lottery on the Big Board. But his stock is still a little too volatile to peg him exactly.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2007/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&id=2740257
Yi Jianlian, F, 19 years old, China
Is Yi the next Yao?
Not really, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.
After almost being in the draft last year, Yi (or rather his Chinese team) announced that he'd be allowed to enter the 2007 draft. He hired agent Dan Fegan and has the buzz of a late lottery pick at the moment.
The similarities to Yao are there, but somewhat superficial. They both are Chinese and have dominated the Chinese Basketball Association league. But that's about it.
Yi is an athletic 7-footer who likes to play on the outside. He runs the floor, dunks on people and has a pretty nice handle. Some scouts compare him to Toni Kukoc.
Scouts are pretty evenly split on his draft prospects at the moment. A few of them love him and think he could go in the top 10 this year. Others are more skeptical and have him ranked as a mid-first rounder.
One interesting question: Does being from China help or hurt Yi?
On one hand, Yao's been immensely popular, and teams such as the Golden State Warriors and Seattle SuperSonics -- with potentially huge Asian fan bases -- would love to get Yi.
On the other hand, the team that drafts Yi will also have to deal with the red tape and the demanding offseason tournament schedule that Yi will have to play for his national team.
There's also the question of his age. Most scouts believe that Yi is actually 22, not 19 as he is listed by his team. Either way Yi is young. But his dominance over junior competition is not as impressive if he is three years older than everyone else.
Some scouts have seen Yi a lot more than others have, while some are relying on evaluations that are two years old. Especially for the latter group, workouts likely will be the key in determining where he falls on draft night.
Tiago Splitter, F/C, 21 years old, Brazil
By now, every draftnik in the world knows Splitter's name. He declared for -- and withdrew from -- the last three drafts. Even before that, he was on the NBA radar screen. He has played prominent roles for an elite Euroleague team, Tau Ceramica in Spain, and for the Brazilian national team. Exposure isn't a problem.
He's 7-feet tall, athletic and an excellent defender, with an improving offensive game. He's averaging 9.1 points per game and 6.1 rebounds in 24 minutes in Euroleague play this season. And finally, because of draft rules for international players, Splitter is in the draft automatically, and he can't withdraw.
Splitter has a couple of problems.
One, his contract requires a very large buyout with Tau Ceramica. Two drafts ago he had a window to get out of it, but NBA lottery teams didn't show enough interest in him, so he went back to Spain. With the Fran Vazquez fiasco fresh in everyone's mind, no one wants to spend a lottery pick on a guy unless they are sure he can come when they want him to.
Second, Splitter has lost the upside factor. His stock was especially damaged a couple of summers ago when he came to do a large group workout in front of 100 or so NBA talent evaluators in Chicago. I was there and Splitter didn't look great. (To be fair, he had just gotten off a plane from Spain and had never been in an environment like that before.) Before that event his stock had been very high -- afterward, not so much.
Since then he's improved in all facets of his game. His body has matured. And he's gotten wonderful experience playing against some of the best talent in the world. One of his former teammates, former Hawks player Travis Hansen, has raved to me about his work ethic and talent. But for some, Splitter, at 21, is practically a has-been.
Still, in most drafts he would be a top-10 pick. In this loaded draft, with the issues he's facing, I'm not so sure. He needs to come over and do workouts with individual teams, but his season might not end early enough. Furthermore, he needs to clarify his buyout situation with NBA teams.
I've still got him in the late lottery on the Big Board. But his stock is still a little too volatile to peg him exactly.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2007/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&id=2740257
No offense, but that's just plain stupid. So he doesn't pan out and you now have ABSOLUTELY nothing to show for it, whereas if you get the sure bet you now have a player who at least has VALUE around the league. If you get enough value there is usually 1 star player traded every year. If you put yourself in a position to acquire that star player through VALUABLE assets you now have the sure fire STUD to build your team around. I'd MUCH rather go that route than hope the some POTENTIAL freak won't flop(there's more evidence that they'll flop than they'll succeed in that range). You feel me?
so u want solid players? we got em buddy. so you wanna give a team a few good players, and theyll give you a "sure fire STUD." 1 star each year? please name the players that are "sure fire STUD(s)" theyre studs because theyre in their prime. this makes sense if you have veterans, and wanna win NOW. kevin garnet, allen iverson are/were on the trading block. now what would getting those guys do us if all we have are developing players? do you not see a flaw in your plan? that no GOOD gm would give you a star for role players? and if they would do that, these players are at their prime or after it, and you dont have the time to build your team around them. then what do you have left? a 33 year old all star past his prime sitting on a 20 million contract. congrats.
potential freak? unless you have some kind of pass to scout players, your source is just as good as mine. and in this age, misinformation is EVERYWHERE. we are BOTH shooting in the dark with these players. ALL of these players. give me a break dude.
"sure bet?" the nba draft? sure bet? did you read this? its all a gamble buddy. no one knows who will pan out and who wont. im just sayin that perhaps the extra gamble might be worth it. and if not? lets say we draft a big who might be a superstar, but not right now, and he doesnt pan out. whats his trade value? nothing? ask darko how many people wnat him STILL. hell, go over to the darko thread and read. people want this kid, and whats he proved? nothing. big men with potential ALWAYS have value. nene got signed to 60 mil for what? his knee problem? think about it.
plain stupid? you want to trade 3 role players for one stud? especially a big man? this only happens in nba live 07(i know, ive done it). this is reality kiddo. you know what? your route may just be better. in fact, your route may be the best ever. too bad your route doesnt really exist in the context that im talking about. were not denver whos one star away from contention, or hcicago whos so packed with young talent and potential that they can be in every trade they want. were the kings, we have very little trade value, and were overdue for a rebuild.
potential freak? unless you have some kind of pass to scout players, your source is just as good as mine. and in this age, misinformation is EVERYWHERE. we are BOTH shooting in the dark with these players. ALL of these players. give me a break dude.
"sure bet?" the nba draft? sure bet? did you read this? its all a gamble buddy. no one knows who will pan out and who wont. im just sayin that perhaps the extra gamble might be worth it. and if not? lets say we draft a big who might be a superstar, but not right now, and he doesnt pan out. whats his trade value? nothing? ask darko how many people wnat him STILL. hell, go over to the darko thread and read. people want this kid, and whats he proved? nothing. big men with potential ALWAYS have value. nene got signed to 60 mil for what? his knee problem? think about it.
plain stupid? you want to trade 3 role players for one stud? especially a big man? this only happens in nba live 07(i know, ive done it). this is reality kiddo. you know what? your route may just be better. in fact, your route may be the best ever. too bad your route doesnt really exist in the context that im talking about. were not denver whos one star away from contention, or hcicago whos so packed with young talent and potential that they can be in every trade they want. were the kings, we have very little trade value, and were overdue for a rebuild.
If you look carefully, the guy, whom Paul posterized, isn't Yi because that guy is number 12 whereas Yi is number 12.
However, I think Yi is too weak to be an impact player in the NBA at this moment. Yi is a project player who can blossom into a good starter (maybe slightly below all-star level) after three years in the NBA. Thus, I think the Kings should pick him if they only have a 10th or lower pick.
However, I think Yi is too weak to be an impact player in the NBA at this moment. Yi is a project player who can blossom into a good starter (maybe slightly below all-star level) after three years in the NBA. Thus, I think the Kings should pick him if they only have a 10th or lower pick.
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dude, pau has alot of experience in the nba. yi does not. did you see yi come back and dunk on the spaniards? i love his face after he threw it down. 
that fiery kind of attitude. it shows that he won't stand to be disrespected on one end w/o dishing it back on the other.
i'm pretty high on this guy after seeing some more footage of him that i haven't seen. his skillset could be a potential matchup problem for alot of teams.
that fiery kind of attitude. it shows that he won't stand to be disrespected on one end w/o dishing it back on the other. i'm pretty high on this guy after seeing some more footage of him that i haven't seen. his skillset could be a potential matchup problem for alot of teams.
There is some editing done on that clip. Yi schools Pau first, then Pau comes back with his stuff a few minutes later. You can tell by looking at the score and time.
Still it's good to see that he has some cockiness to his game. Might be the difference between cowering when NBA players work him, or biting back.
Still it's good to see that he has some cockiness to his game. Might be the difference between cowering when NBA players work him, or biting back.
wont help him right now, but who knows what he can be, and how this attitude will help him in the nba.
yao never had that swagger until now, which (i think) is what enabled him to take that next level this season. u can see it in his facial expressions now. he yells, he screams, theres even youtube footage of him talkin sh*t to others. its great to see him not back down. yi already has this.
yao never had that swagger until now, which (i think) is what enabled him to take that next level this season. u can see it in his facial expressions now. he yells, he screams, theres even youtube footage of him talkin sh*t to others. its great to see him not back down. yi already has this.
I think what this guy meant is that Yi was not the one who got dunked on in that vid. The guy who got dunked on was number 12. Yi's number when he does the dunk is number 11. Look again if you're not sure, but any way that's what ^ meant to say.
Edit: more dunks by Yi. And wow that rim rocked on his ninth dunk!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxHjuRoTLxA&NR
Edit: more dunks by Yi. And wow that rim rocked on his ninth dunk!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxHjuRoTLxA&NR
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I think that's what I like about him (besides the obvious amazing athleticism for a 7 foot player). Its not about "ooh, look at that dunk" -- in fact generally I consider dunks kind of B.S. and only tangentially related to basketball. But its that he WANTS to dunk every time, and dunk in your face. Aggression. Attitude. Also like the way he went looking for contact on his drives, and was willing to throw a little chicken wing in there to throw off the defender too. Shows toughness and moxie, and those are the sorts of things that can take a talented player and make him into a great one. There is no passivity in the tapes at least. You see a kid who looks like he wants it and has a helluva lot of confidence he has it, is willing to take the ball into the paint, and wants to flush the ball on your head. That's a great start (albeit of course irrelevant if he in fact does not have the talent after all).
Now the questions remain of course about the talent (which looks excellent in the tapes, but competition level =?) and about whether he can sustain that aggression/attitude over a full game/season, and into the NBA. Problem with mix tapes -- I think I would look draftable in a mix tape showing only my best moments (well...you might have to tape quite a few games to get enough footage in my case, but given time... ). If he's only aggressive one play in ten, and disappears for the rest, its for naught.
Now the questions remain of course about the talent (which looks excellent in the tapes, but competition level =?) and about whether he can sustain that aggression/attitude over a full game/season, and into the NBA. Problem with mix tapes -- I think I would look draftable in a mix tape showing only my best moments (well...you might have to tape quite a few games to get enough footage in my case, but given time...
). If he's only aggressive one play in ten, and disappears for the rest, its for naught.
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our problem is also most of the GMs problem: how do you measure yi? being from different competition, and im assuming its harder to get a scope on him given that hes in china doesnt make it easy for gms to translate his game to the nba. im still intrigued though. we havent gotten that swagger kind of swagger in a long time. bibby hasnt shown it this season, and even when he had it, it was a different swagger. bibby would shoot lights out, make a 3 point play inside. we havent had an impact player with a mean streak and highlight dunks since pre knee webber.
According to what I can find, we're going into this draft with no debts:
http://www.draftexpress.com/transactions.php
Just took a look over some mock drafts to see what the guesses are looking like. I'm happy to say that, while only one of three predicts GP picking a big, at least only one has us picking a 5'11" combo guard.
http://www.draftexpress.com/mock.php?y=2007
http://nbadraft.net/
http://hoopshype.com/draft.htm
http://www.draftexpress.com/transactions.php
Just took a look over some mock drafts to see what the guesses are looking like. I'm happy to say that, while only one of three predicts GP picking a big, at least only one has us picking a 5'11" combo guard.
http://www.draftexpress.com/mock.php?y=2007
http://nbadraft.net/
http://hoopshype.com/draft.htm
Sometimes they make a serious effort to consider team needs, sometimes they don't. There were some others which I omitted because they weren't about team needs, so didn't even list teams to go with the draftees, just the pick # they thought the guys deserved.
Of the ones who do try to predict what teams will do, they don't do very well on particulars (beyond obvious early picks), but seem to do well on position. Last year, for example, virtually everyone agreed that we would go for a PF/C who could back Brad up, or a guard who could back Bibby up -- both very logical conclusions. We fought our way to a late enough pick that all the likely PF/C candidates were gone, so, according to the guesses, we would take either Douby or Farmar.
Of course, there will always be those whose ideas are way off. Of the three I listed, one had us going for a SF. That site obviously isn't going to any real effort this early in the year. The others seem pretty much right on the money, either in terms of knowing what GP likes (5'11" shooter combo guards), or of what our biggest need is (6'10" PF).
I'll start taking them a bit more seriously in a few months.
Of the ones who do try to predict what teams will do, they don't do very well on particulars (beyond obvious early picks), but seem to do well on position. Last year, for example, virtually everyone agreed that we would go for a PF/C who could back Brad up, or a guard who could back Bibby up -- both very logical conclusions. We fought our way to a late enough pick that all the likely PF/C candidates were gone, so, according to the guesses, we would take either Douby or Farmar.
Of course, there will always be those whose ideas are way off. Of the three I listed, one had us going for a SF. That site obviously isn't going to any real effort this early in the year. The others seem pretty much right on the money, either in terms of knowing what GP likes (5'11" shooter combo guards), or of what our biggest need is (6'10" PF).
I'll start taking them a bit more seriously in a few months.
Yi did nicely against Angola (15/15), almost as well against Spain, and badly against eventual champion Greece, who crushed the Chinese team (Yao + Yi + scrubs). China was unlucky enough to meet Greece in the first round, so never made it to round 2.
Yi did very well against US competition at the ABCD Camp, and well against international competition at U18 and U19 tournaments. He didn't do so well at the 2005 Hoops Summit game, for whatever that's worth.
While a 7' SF wasn't quite what I had in mind, I'd be fine with drafting him if he really is 19. If he was 24 at the FIBA games last summer (as Shane Battier claimed Yi said, but which Yi later denied), then I couldn't get very excited.
Yi did very well against US competition at the ABCD Camp, and well against international competition at U18 and U19 tournaments. He didn't do so well at the 2005 Hoops Summit game, for whatever that's worth.
While a 7' SF wasn't quite what I had in mind, I'd be fine with drafting him if he really is 19. If he was 24 at the FIBA games last summer (as Shane Battier claimed Yi said, but which Yi later denied), then I couldn't get very excited.
while his game is mostly a SF's, id try very hard to make him pack 10-15 pounds of muscle to his thin frame, and stick him at pf as a garnett type pf. while hed still get outmuscled, at least they cant shoot over him ala our monster pf combo of kenny, corliss, and a little bit of reef.
his tenacity helps in the pf position where theres more contact than at the sf position.
his tenacity helps in the pf position where theres more contact than at the sf position.