[Game] 05/82: Kings @ Bulls 29 OCT 2025, 5pm PT/8pm ET

[Rob-The-Great]

lol equal player smh maybe we’d fix those issues after the trade if the dumbass owner didn’t force Lavine on Monte. Same Lavine that nobody wants or wanted, trading fox to mami for JJJ and jovic would’ve been ten times better then getting Lavine’s contract and a first next decade

There where litteraly teams trying to get lavine before we traded for him. Where are you getting this? Warriors def wanted him at one point.

I see I'm. Not changing your mind about lavine. So now what? Your going to hate your star player? While being a kings fan? How's that gonna work out. You sitting this season out?

 

[Shaqfuey]

These are the narratives that constantly get repeated that I don’t understand. Do you want a scorer as good as LaVine with no flaws? Because that’s a top 5 player in the league.

I feel bad for Zach. He’s had garbage around him his whole career and is the scapegoat. DeRozen loses everywhere he goes and is always talked about as a HOFer.

 

[TaxMan]

I promise I won't do this all season. I didn't do it last season (mostly because I couldn't bring myself to watch the games after the trade deadline) and I'm only doing it now because I want people to actually pay attention to him on defense rather than checking the box scores to see if he "played well" or not. He is literally standing around on the court while everyone else is working. You don't need me to prove it to you with stats -- just watch him. Watch his rotations. Watch how he reacts when a shot goes up. Watch how he navigates screens. Watch what he does when he's the closest defender to the ball. If that doesn't convince you, then we can just agree to disagree.

I have already checked out on these early start games….peek at the score to see how it’s going. Watch the game if we win. I just can’t do a 4 guard starting lineup. Just epically bad roster construction. Perry gets no grace period from me as he directly contributed to the problem. Don’t want to hear excuses about not being able to move players in the off season. Other teams find a way. Unless you’re telling me he had to attach a first round pick to get rid of the obvious logjam, I would have been fine with moving Debo for nothing of value (and monk also…although that would have pained me.) It’s very basic roster construction/addition by subtraction. But nope, we added two guards (3 If you count Clifford) and now we are stuck with an outlandish series of 3 and 4 guard lineups at all time.

 

[iowamcnabb]

Schroder is comically bad. I still can't believe Perry courted him like he was the prom queen. What on earth was he thinking and why did we give him a raise? He was already cooked before he got here.

Monk has been awesome this year and he was really good on both sides of the floor tonight. Carter also played good defense but his offense has yet to be found.

We're running Sabonis and 4 guards out there. Yes DDR is the size of a SG. It's no wonder the defense is terrible. I'm finally convinced that the Kings will never be a good defending team with Sabonis at the 5 so they either need to find a 5 that he can play along side of or they need to trade him. He provides absolutely zero paint defense of any kind. He's an absolute statue and foul machine on drives.

For those harping on Lavine, I could be convinced if you could prove that he gives up more points than he puts up. If that's not the case then he's really not the problem.

Admittedly I lean purple colored glasses because I don’t like being miserable in my hobbies but I think Perry has been pretty transparent with his mission and we just have to live with the results. They were going to try and win and if didn’t work they will look to move off some vets and re-tool. The good news is trades have been happening earlier instead of right at the deadline so we could potentially have 30 games for the young guys to develop. Russ is non guaranteed so we would likely just cut him so he can sign with a contender and Deebo could be moved for if nothing else an ender. Those two moves alone free up 50 minutes of playing time. Dennis can be a stop gap and then either shifted to the bench, moved or bought out after next season. They can figure out what to do with Sabonis and Lavine in the offseason. I’ll reserve too much judgement for the deadline.

 

[TTown Kings]

So was fox flawed? Or was he perfect all of a sudden? Because thats who we traded to get Lavine. Guy isnt even playing right now and they undefeated.

You guys act like we traded michael Jordan for lavine. We got a equal player and some picks. We still have issues. We had issues before the trade we have them after the trade.

Its not lavine. We need to start actually adding people with a plan in mind

Fox wasn't perfect, but he was a much better fit for this team. We already had DDR, monk, keon, Carter. Didn't need another sg. The issues are far worse now. Lavine is part of the problem. The poor roster construction isn't his fault though.

 

[SacTownKid]

Sir, let's keep it respectful. There is no way this team is remotely close to those trash trams you speak of. The thought gives me nightmares.

Hell, id say we played our youth more back then. Problem was our youth was trash.

Tanking doesn't mean your good after a few years. It rarely pans out. You need generational talent. When is the next 7' 5 guard coming.

I hate the Spurs now BTW because of fox smh

Same basic idea of avoiding the inevitable and crunching away potential in the interim. The Kings biggest issue isn't drafting bad players, it's never committing to anything other than trying to skip steps in the process which requires some degree of patience. The one good thing in the Monte era that the Kings didn't really have before was at least a system in the g league that seemed to develop decent role guys. We'll see if that's been crapped away too. It shouldn't because I doubt Monte was the head of that but we'll see.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

There where litteraly teams trying to get lavine before we traded for him. Where are you getting this? Warriors def wanted him at one point.

I see I'm. Not changing your mind about lavine. So now what? Your going to hate your star player? While being a kings fan? How's that gonna work out. You sitting this season out?

Isn’t this a gap year haha


If GSW wanted him they’d have him Chicago tried for years to get rid of him Denver’s allegedly turned down a first and Lavine for MPJ who has an equally bad contract

 

[TheMobb]

If that's the point, it's not a very good one, in my opinion. Most players who put up "empty stats" in the way that LaVine does get verbally crucified, but league-wide and by the fanbases of the teams they play for, but LaVine is supposed to get a pass, because efficiency?

I’m not saying he gets a pass. I’m saying “empty stats” doesn’t really fit. His efficiency and shot creation do translate, they just don’t look as impactful on a team with no legit #1 option and defense behind him. It’s fair to criticize his flaws but he’s not padding numbers.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

So was fox flawed? Or was he perfect all of a sudden? Because thats who we traded to get Lavine. Guy isnt even playing right now and they undefeated.

You guys act like we traded michael Jordan for lavine. We got a equal player and some picks. We still have issues. We had issues before the trade we have them after the trade.

Its not lavine. We need to start actually adding people with a plan in mind

Except it is LaVine, from the standpoint that they traded a guy who fulfilled a position of need for a guy who didn't. And now their lineup is woefully out of balance because he doesn't provide anything that they need, and what he does isn't enough to offset what he doesn't.

The Kings would have been better off waiting until the offseason to trade Fox.

 

[ESP47]

I promise I won't do this all season. I didn't do it last season (mostly because I couldn't bring myself to watch the games after the trade deadline) and I'm only doing it now because I want people to actually pay attention to him on defense rather than checking the box scores to see if he "played well" or not. He is literally standing around on the court while everyone else is working. You don't need me to prove it to you with stats -- just watch him. Watch his rotations. Watch how he reacts when a shot goes up. Watch how he navigates screens. Watch what he does when he's the closest defender to the ball. If that doesn't convince you, then we can just agree to disagree.

You can go ahead and do what you want. If you want to harp on Lavine, then harp on Lavine. I've pretty much been non stop whining about this team since the first Schroder rumor popped up. I reckon I'll quit once I get tired of complaining and only have Kings games on for background noise....which will come sooner than later.

I know he's a bad defender. My question is just whether he gives up more points than he scores. It's difficult to quantify but I personally think DDR hurts us just as bad defensively while not being as good offensively as Lavine. He's also taking up space as a 4 who can't rebound and can't defend. I think he's giving up the same amount of points or more than he scores. Schroder absolutely gives up more points than he scores. Sabonis for sure has this year. I'm just not convinced Lavine does but I'll try watching him more like a scout to see what you're talking about.

 

[hrdboild]

I have already checked out on these early start games….peek at the score to see how it’s going. Watch the game if we win. I just can’t do a 4 guard starting lineup. Just epically bad roster construction. Perry gets no grace period from me as he directly contributed to the problem. Don’t want to hear excuses about not being able to move players in the off season. Other teams find a way. Unless you’re telling me he had to attach a first round pick to get rid of the obvious logjam, I would have been fine with moving Debo for nothing of value (and monk also…although that would have pained me.) It’s very basic roster construction/addition by subtraction. But nope, we added two guards (3 If you count Clifford) and now we are stuck with an outlandish series of 3 and 4 guard lineups at all time.

I think the plan was to run Keegan into the ground as the PF -- have him take every tough defensive assignment and pound in the paint for 38 minutes a night and then hope he remains super chill about DeRozan, LaVine, Schröder, Monk, and Westbrook taking all of the shots. That finger injury may have saved us from Keegan's knees going out like Kawhi's have during the middle of his new contract extension. It's still awful roster construction, no doubt about that, but it looks even more awful because of the Keegan Murray injury.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I’m not saying he gets a pass. I’m saying “empty stats” doesn’t really fit. His efficiency and shot creation do translate...

To what? Because there's no evidence over the course of his career that they translate to winning.

... they just don’t look as impactful on a team with no legit #1 option and defense behind him. It’s fair to criticize his flaws but he’s not padding numbers.

For $48 million a year, why isn't he a legit #1 option?

 

[Rob-The-Great]

Isn’t this a gap year haha


If GSW wanted him they’d have him Chicago tried for years to get rid of him Denver’s allegedly turned down a first and Lavine for MPJ who has an equally bad contract

He was injured. When healthy hes top 5 in off efficiency sir. Nba teams love that type of player.

Its crazy how close we are to 4 and 1 vs 1 and 4.

Crazy how quick we forget about how little ref calls we get when we need it most because they throw us bones when they dont matter to balance out the crap they give us.

Derozen had zero fts 1st half and garbage fts 2nd half. This stuff matters just as much.

Its still early to make any calls honesty

 

[Kingster]

Christie says some of the Kings' players get "bored" and as a result don't play fundamentally strong defense, which allows for all those points in the paint and the huge rebound discrepancy..... Absolutely hilarious. It's not that the Kings are playing with four guards on the floor who are at considerable disadvantage in height and weight compared to their adversary. It's that the players are in a state of ennui. Oh, the tedium of it all!
I think the "boredom" Christie is talking about is a euphemism for cracks in the mental fortitude of this team. When the smaller fissures become larger and more connected to each other there could easily be a full-on break. The question is: How many more losses before the will of this team is broken?

 

[SacTownKid]

Except it is LaVine, from the standpoint that they traded a guy who fulfilled a position of need for a guy who didn't. And now their lineup is woefully out of balance because he doesn't provide anything that they need, and what he does isn't enough to offset what he doesn't.

The Kings would have been better off waiting until the offseason to trade Fox.

Really? How was Fox's health during that time? The critical thing is now the Kings might not be able to go further into a Domas build. It could set this franchise back more years if they do. DeMar is looking good. Monk is playing good ball. Maybe there's some chances to create some flexibility if and when the writing is on the wall.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

He was injured. When healthy hes top 5 in off efficiency sir. Nba teams love that type of player.

Its crazy how close we are to 4 and 1 vs 1 and 4.

Crazy how quick we forget about how little ref calls we get when we need it most because they throw us bones when they dont matter to balance out the crap they give us.

Derozen had zero fts 1st half and garbage fts 2nd half. This stuff matters just as much.

Its still early to make any calls honesty

Smh we suck everyone knew this four months ago we’re not a playoff team from last year that’s starting off bad

 

[Joshyjosh31]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1983721867572912329

 

[The_Jamal]

Schroder is comically bad. I still can't believe Perry courted him like he was the prom queen. What on earth was he thinking and why did we give him a raise? He was already cooked before he got here.

Monk has been awesome this year and he was really good on both sides of the floor tonight. Carter also played good defense but his offense has yet to be found.

We're running Sabonis and 4 guards out there. Yes DDR is the size of a SG. It's no wonder the defense is terrible. I'm finally convinced that the Kings will never be a good defending team with Sabonis at the 5 so they either need to find a 5 that he can play along side of or they need to trade him. He provides absolutely zero paint defense of any kind. He's an absolute statue and foul machine on drives.

For those harping on Lavine, I could be convinced if you could prove that he gives up more points than he puts up. If that's not the case then he's really not the problem.

To be fair to Domas, it might help if he played with a couple guys who dont let their man just blow by possession after possession. Was just pathetic watching the "starting" group attempt any sort of poa defense

 

[ESP47]

Admittedly I lean purple colored glasses because I don’t like being miserable in my hobbies but I think Perry has been pretty transparent with his mission and we just have to live with the results. They were going to try and win and if didn’t work they will look to move off some vets and re-tool. The good news is trades have been happening earlier instead of right at the deadline so we could potentially have 30 games for the young guys to develop. Russ is non guaranteed so we would likely just cut him so he can sign with a contender and Deebo could be moved for if nothing else an ender. Those two moves alone free up 50 minutes of playing time. Dennis can be a stop gap and then either shifted to the bench, moved or bought out after next season. They can figure out what to do with Sabonis and Lavine in the offseason. I’ll reserve too much judgement for the deadline.

You definitely have more optimism than I do with Perry's plan. These guys had no chance of winning from the moment he signed Schroder and got rid of JVal. Just completely nonsensical from a guy who is supposed to be good at building a team. We're not in a good place to win or rebuild. We're officially in purgatory. You'll see what I'm talking about when we all start getting grandiose trade ideas around the trade deadline and wind up with zero FRPs and zero upside players for our efforts. There's just not much trade value on this team.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

This team would have been a lot better off, had they even brought back Jae Crowder, instead of adding Westbrook to get in the way of the younger players

 

[TheMobb]

To what? Because there's no evidence over the course of his career that they translate to winning.


For $48 million a year, why isn't he a legit #1 option?

Fair points, but that’s kind of results bias. Winning’s about roster balance, not just one guy’s numbers. Put LaVine next to elite playmaking and defensive talent, and those same skills help you win. They just haven’t been in that kind of setup yet.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Really? How was Fox's health during that time?

The urgency to trade Fox was manufactured. They should have either held out for an offer that would have actually made them better, or called his bluff. Had the Kings been run well, they probably would have done either.

The critical thing is now the Kings might not be able to go further into a Domas build.

People still think that's a good idea?

It could set this franchise back more years if they do. DeMar is looking good. Monk is playing good ball. Maybe there's some chances to create some flexibility if and when the writing is on the wall.

What do you mean, if?

 

[Rob-The-Great]

Really? How was Fox's health during that time? The critical thing is now the Kings might not be able to go further into a Domas build. It could set this franchise back more years if they do. DeMar is looking good. Monk is playing good ball. Maybe there's some chances to create some flexibility if and when the writing is on the wall.

Such short memories. Fox was. Not him. Never seen a guy take so many plays off in my life. His defense was amazing 50% of the time. His offense amazing 50% of the time.

Im glad its over. From same token we given lavine. Fox was not a winning player. In fact there are no winning players in francise history since 2004. Every single player was not a winner.

Or, the NBA is hard and pieces need to fit. And coaches need to be able to coach. A lot of things must go right. Culture must be established. This is why i liked Westbrook signing. If we gonna play him all these dang min, id rather he take Denise min over Carter.

 

[hrdboild]

You can go ahead and do what you want. If you want to harp on Lavine, then harp on Lavine. I've pretty much been non stop whining about this team since the first Schroder rumor popped up. I reckon I'll quit once I get tired of complaining and only have Kings games on for background noise....which will come sooner than later.

I know he's a bad defender. My question is just whether he gives up more points than he scores. It's difficult to quantify but I personally think DDR hurts us just as bad defensively while not being as good offensively as Lavine. He's also taking up space as a 4 who can't rebound and can't defend. I think he's giving up the same amount of points or more than he scores. Schroder absolutely gives up more points than he scores. Sabonis for sure has this year. I'm just not convinced Lavine does but I'll try watching him more like a scout to see what you're talking about.

DeMar was here before LaVine joined the team though. Is it fair to criticize him and Westbrook for being bad PF's just because they're the only 2 guards in our 6 guard rotation who can play PF?

I’m not saying he gets a pass. I’m saying “empty stats” doesn’t really fit. His efficiency and shot creation do translate, they just don’t look as impactful on a team with no legit #1 option and defense behind him. It’s fair to criticize his flaws but he’s not padding numbers.

My argument is that he's only able to do what he does on offense because of the way he plays defense. If everyone out there has a limited amount of gas in the tank and he uses 100% of his gas on offense and 0% of it on defense I should hope that he's putting up buckets. But it's a terrible way to go about getting them. We can substitute any other NBA SG in that spot and probably get 12-15 ppg out of them with less touches than LaVine is using so the question then becomes: is he costing us more than 10-15 ppg on defense? It is clear to me that he is. Especially when you factor in that the SG's he's taking minutes away from on this team are Keon Ellis, Nique Clifford, and Devin Carter.

And I really have to disagree with the idea that you can "balance" out a nothing defender by surrounding him with elite defenders. It's not that it isn't true -- it's that it's not practical. Nor is it fair to everyone else. And the negative effects down the line from that decision -- which for us includes limited opportunities for much better defenders like Carter and Ellis on the floor, less offensive touches for everyone else, holes in the roster for elite defensive bigs and forwards that we're going to have a hard time filling -- all point to one easy solution. Get rid of LaVine and build around a player who does more than just score the ball.

 

[QWERTYLICIOUS]

This team...sucks.

 

[SLAB]

Any Keegan haters missing Keegan now?

He wouldn’t make a single difference with this ****-show of a roster.

 

[SacTownKid]

The urgency to trade Fox was manufactured. They should have either held out for an offer that would have actually made them better, or called his bluff. Had the Kings been run well, they probably would have done either.


People still think that's a good idea?


What do you mean, if?

His bluff was I'm leaving and it wasn't a bluff. C'mon, his agent put that together and Vivek bent right over haha. It was get that or get nothing. There was going to be some major collusion happening at some point that would have F'd the Kings. LaVine is here for another season after this at best. Could be worse. Everything after that was the WTF moment so far.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Fair points, but that’s kind of results bias. Winning’s about roster balance, not just one guy’s numbers. Put LaVine next to elite playmaking and defensive talent, and those same skills help you win. They just haven’t been in that kind of setup yet.

How many teams does it have to happen to before you'll consider the possibility that maybe he's the reason the roster's unbalanced?

Now, in defense of LaVine, the fact that he unbalances teams isn't entirely a problem of his own making, rather it is the inevitable result of analytics weenies taking over basketball: when you decide that what players like LaVine can do is so valuable that you pay them like franchise guys, you can't balance a roster around them.

 

[SacTownKid]

Such short memories. Fox was. Not him. Never seen a guy take so many plays off in my life. His defense was amazing 50% of the time. His offense amazing 50% of the time.

Im glad its over. From same token we given lavine. Fox was not a winning player. In fact there are no winning players in francise history since 2004. Every single player was not a winner.

Or, the NBA is hard and pieces need to fit. And coaches need to be able to coach. A lot of things must go right. Culture must be established. This is why i liked Westbrook signing. If we gonna play him all these dang min, id rather he take Denise min over Carter.

Culture only matters if you value the youth on your team because that's the only place it can be instilled. That's where culture matters and if the coaches idea is to squash that youth into background to let "winning" be the culture builder it ends up badly more often than not. We've seen this movie before. Time and time again. I really don't get how GM's don't simply let history be their guide. It's right there, all the mistakes you can possibly make have been made before. Mostly by the Kings, lol.

 

[Rob-The-Great]

Fox was leaving period. He was using us to get a super max. When that didnt happen he was gone. Even if it happend he woild have sucked it up for a second then demanded a trade. No way he was staying. He was going to Texas. Fox cares about Fox.

Ill boo him every chance I get. Very few star players leave like he did. It was a big f u to the city.

Lavine wants to be here. Ill be happy to get people around him that work