SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
And at least with young guys there's just joy in playing the game. The vets aren't stupid, they know the situation they're in. Pride always kicks in at some point but it doesn't change what this is. It never has.
[Game] 05/82: Kings @ Bulls 29 OCT 2025, 5pm PT/8pm ET
- Thread starter Mr. S£im Citrus
- Start date
And at least with young guys there's just joy in playing the game. The vets aren't stupid, they know the situation they're in. Pride always kicks in at some point but it doesn't change what this is. It never has.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
True, the only difference is that was new and fresh for those guys, this feels like yesterdays leftovers reheated in the microwave. This situation was already built on skepticism. Perry just about dangled every player on the roster at one point and even called this a gap year himself. If the team came into the season with an F U attitude that would have been clear from day 1. The effort has been there which actually could be a testament to them or Christie, but this was built on quicksand to begin with.
We have to think about the trickle down minutes wise of bringing Keegan 30+ MPG back in the rotation and what Christie actually will do though. I think the guy that hurts the most is Keon, especially with how much we've leaned on Russ now.
It's really unfortunate that the additions of Dennis and Russ are basically making it impossible to play Keon and Nique the rotation minutes they should actually be playing. They'll both be limited to 10-14 MPG type roles; just isn't minutes elsewhere.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
So far it's obviously way too early but the top 3 in defensive bpm are Carter, Nique, and Keon. Not a coincidence I would think. There are capable defenders squashed by name value and little upside on that end of the floor.
It's 24 minutes, so this is an obviously massively skewed sample, but the team has been wildly successful with Dev on the court, despite him not putting up any counting stats
116.7 ORtg
98 DRtg
+18.7 Net RTG
In the 217 other minutes?
109.7 ORtg
119.4 DRtg
-9.7 Net Rtg
Again, this is stupidly noisy, but I think when watching when he was in the game; he just helps balance floor. He's not demanding the ball on offense, he moves it almost immediately and he's actually capable of staying in front of his man on defense and applying ball pressure. So just his presence on the floor has let the offense really flow through Monk/DDR especially and they've been able to cook opposing 2nd units.
And the 2 most used lineups with Carter so far:
9 minutes:
135.3 ORtg
100 DRtg
Carter
Monk
DDR
Russ
Eubanks
and
6 minutes
145.5 ORtg
66.7 DRtg
Carter
Monk
Keon
DDR
Eubanks
You're building an actual offensive hierarchy on offense (where all 5 guys don't need the ball) and you're putting actual defense on the floor, even though both of these lineups are undersized. I think people really underestimate how important it is to make sure you have guys on the floor that DON'T need the ball in their hands and can still give you offensive value through their shooting. That lets the offensive stars actually be offensive stars.
And who knows, maybe these lineups blow up as it's just tiny samples to this point in the season. But I don't think it's a coincidence these have been the best 2 rotations we've seen over the last 2 games either when we've watched the games
I have to think that a defender of the caliber of Doug Christie who played his whole career at the SG position must see what happens when LaVine is on the court vs. when Clifford / Ellis / Carter are on the court. Every NBA team has a video department so I assume Doug is watching replays of every game. He's spent enough time in a public facing role that he's going to be careful about what he says to reporters vs. what he says internally but it would surprise me if he's not aware of how much better the team plays when anyone but LaVine is in that SG role.
Doug doesn't care. He caters to his vets and he's stuck with that since taking over as HC.
I also don't think LaVine is even among our top 5 problems right now. Dennis and Russ are 1A and 1B; they also play negative defense, except they're killing us even more on offense somehow. 29.2 PPG on 67% TS is patently absurd. Ill accept a defensive blackhole when that's the offensive production I get in return.
What I don't accept is the same level of being a defensive sieve and also actively killing us on offense like Dennis and Russ are currently doing
Well the difference is Doug has been there and done that. I know what a good NBA defender looks like, or at least I think I do, but he was one. Doesn't necessarily mean he knows how to coach it but all he needs to be able to do at this point is identify the difference between a plus defender and a guy who doesn't play any defense at all. Should be pretty easy. But we don't know the extent to which he has been empowered to make his own rotation decisions. Mike Brown had two Coach of the Year awards and this front office and/or owner overruled him on rotation decisions so I'm guessing probably not.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Must be a sinking feeling to have the "head coach" title and know what needs to be done,... but not be fully in charge of game decisions
eh, as much as I despise Vivek as an owner, I'm not a fan of prescribing problems to him that can't actually be proven.
I think we can reasonably surmise that he took over team control last year. DDR was such a staunch difference in player archetype than Monte would normally gravitate too and then he "allowed" Monte to head the ship while making one of the biggest deals in franchise history by trading Fox... only to fire him 2 months later. Doesn't make logical sense to say Monte was running the team, allowed to make a deal that big only to be fired 2 months later. LaVine is also a player that Monte would not normally look to acquire and one Vivek would be attracted to.
What were the rotation decisions that Vivek overruled Brown on? I missed that part of the saga.
And if Vivek is really making Doug play Russ 28 MPG, then all of this is pointless. We're Oakland A's level incompetence in terms of ownership that we're never getting away from. But for all intensive purposes, Doug had the interim HC title taken off, they're paying him to make the rotation decisions. Until we get a leak saying otherwise, he's responsible for his own rotations.
Lou Williams said he heard from someone in the Kings locker room that Coach Brown had asked DeMar to move to a bench role in November of last year and we know that DeMar did not move to a bench role so the question then would be why did Mike Brown have to ask and why did he not get his wish? It doesn't seem like Monte McNair would overrule Mike Brown on roster decisions.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Kind of sounds like you're "reasonably surmising" things about Monte, but then not doing the same with Christie?
If you think Doug is responsible for his own rotations, then it would seem that Monte should also be responsible for his moves.
I think they were both persuaded to do what the owner strongly implies that he wants or thinks should happen
Well, my evidence on Monte is he got fired 2 months after "making" a franchise altering move by trading Fox for LaVine and picks. If that was Monte's decision and Vivek was on board with the vision, why would he have been fired? Why wouldn't he have been allowed to continue and finish his vision?
The alternative is Vivek let Monte make one of the biggest deals in franchise history as a lame-duck GM. Which is patently insane, if true and we're in bigger trouble than we think if that's impulsive he truly is to "trust" Monte to make that trade and then fire him for the decision in 2 months.
Christie may have been getting some direction from upstairs as the interim HC, but I think the nature of him getting the full-time tag, at least right now, suggests he's in control of his own decisions. Again, the alternative is that Doug was only hired to be a puppet of who Vivek wants on the floor, which is a terrifying thought in itself and we'd just be truly lost as a franchise if true
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
It really is a lost franchise. I've seen more than enough to believe it.
How do you know McNair was fired and didn't really decide on his own to "part ways"?
Caccia
Starter
At least the players are out there, giving it every night. I can root for them. This month's schedule is the NBA's version of making someone run the gauntlet. The Warriors are not getting any favors, either.
