The 2013 NBA Finals: (1) Miami Heat vs (2) San Antonio Spurs

[gunks]

he probably wouldn't have developed as quickly as he has under Pop, but nobody can tell me that the guy wouldn't have been worlds better than John freaking Salmons. that trade was just devastating in every way. that whole offseason was, actually. Salmons and Jimmer over Leonard and Beno (whose contract just ran out, as opposed to John's who might very well be amnestied soon), going after Hayes instead of Dalembert, signing Outlaw, hiring Smart. couldn't have gone much worse.

Leonard was my guy going into that draft. Jimmer was probably the LAST person I wanted us to draft.


However, if Leonard was drafted by us, his development would have been destroyed by Smart and Co. Hell, if Donte Greene was drafted by the Spurs he would probably be just as good if not better than Kawhi.

But yeah, worst offseason ever. So glad the Magoofs are Magone.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

edit: Casspi-Hickson. forgot about Casspi-Hickson, too. worst. offseason. ever.

actually that was the one good move. but Keith Smart ran Hickson out of town........

 

[kingjatt]

Leonard was my guy going into that draft. Jimmer was probably the LAST person I wanted us to draft.


However, if Leonard was drafted by us, his development would have been destroyed by Smart and Co. Hell, if Donte Greene was drafted by the Spurs he would probably be just as good if not better than Kawhi.

But yeah, worst offseason ever. So glad the Magoofs are Magone.

good point on Donte, Leonard was my guy too, it seemed too perfect that he was available and we had a glaring SF need but Petrie n Co decided to pass for the more flashy and marketable Jimmer.

Leonard was raw coming out, had the god given size, length and athleticism but lacked shooting and skill, a far cry from where he is now but all Pop seems to need is a guy willing to suceed and he/his legendary coaching staff can work wonders. We would have destroyed Leonard ala Reke or delt him away by now.

 

[kingjatt]

actually that was the one good move. but Keith Smart ran Hickson out of town........

there was a first round pick associated with that as well, even though its protected we will still owe it at some point, it was a bad deal because of that.

 

[jalfa]

Leonard was my guy going into that draft. Jimmer was probably the LAST person I wanted us to draft.


However, if Leonard was drafted by us, his development would have been destroyed by Smart and Co. Hell, if Donte Greene was drafted by the Spurs he would probably be just as good if not better than Kawhi.

But yeah, worst offseason ever. So glad the Magoofs are Magone.

Donté never had anything even close to approximating a modicum of an atom of the work ethic that Leonard has, so I'm not sure that I buy that he'd be all that much better in San Antonio. it's more likely that Pop would've murdered him at some point. anyway, water under the river and everything. still, it's an academically interesting question if you could possibly screw up an offseason worse than Petrie did that year.

actually that was the one good move. but Keith Smart ran Hickson out of town........

well, I'm certainly not going to cry any tears after Omri, but Hickson played rather turdish when he was here and, as kingjatt mentioned, there's the small matter of that firstrounder we still owe the Cavs.

 

[VF21]

Interesting analysis of Pop's coaching style using Arbitrage as a framework.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...trage-explains-the-san-antonio-spurs-success/

Great article! I loved this part:

But if defenses are guarding the stars more tightly and leaving easier opportunities for weaker players, a well-coached team will exploit the opportunity. Yes, to be a successful team you need to have good players. But to be a great coach, you need to deploy those players smartly so that there is no low-hanging fruit of higher-than-average expected value shots not being taken.

That is what Pop did last night, and his "weaker players" certainly stepped up to the task. Spoelstra has to be pulling his hair out trying to figure out a strategy for tomorrow's game.

 

[Kingster]

Great article! I loved this part:



That is what Pop did last night, and his "weaker players" certainly stepped up to the task. Spoelstra has to be pulling his hair out trying to figure out a strategy for tomorrow's game.

And that article destroys the notion that Cousins just has to take the most shots, and Tyreke has to take the second most shots and whatever you do you can't have other players taking shots because they are taking away from those guys. This article shows that there is a much more sophisticated argument for "taking away" shots from your "stars", depending upon the type of shots the "stars" are getting and the non-stars are getting. Yes, ultimately it is a team game, and the arbitrage that the article describes is simply the notion that most times you'd rather get a good shot from your "role players" than an average shot from your star players.

 

[mac]

And that article destroys the notion that Cousins just has to take the most shots, and Tyreke has to take the second most shots and whatever you do you can't have other players taking shots because they are taking away from those guys. This article shows that there is a much more sophisticated argument for "taking away" shots from your "stars", depending upon the type of shots the "stars" are getting and the non-stars are getting. Yes, ultimately it is a team game, and the arbitrage that the article describes is simply the notion that most times you'd rather get a good shot from your "role players" than an average shot from your star players.

But the reason why guys like Danny Green are getting these wide open shots is because Tony Parker is the clear focus of their offense. He is their primary option and they run all their pick and rolls for him to either score or create for others. Tony Parker only had 6 points but he had 8 assists. If the stars aren't getting shot attempts then they should be getting assists by passing it out to the open guy. It's all about the role players playing OFF of the stars. That's the most important thing, not the absolute shot attempt numbers. It just so happens that the focus is on shot attempts particularly because Tyreke isn't Chris Paul or Rajon Rondo. "Taking away" shots and playing off of guys are completely different things, and it's foolish to lump them into one concept. Tony Parker could have only 3 FGA the entire game to Danny Green's 20, but I assure you that the Spurs offense will still run the same way on every possession, pick and roll for Parker to create for a Green open shot. There is ZERO chance that he would go for multiple possessions without being the driver of the offense, let alone just touching the ball like we saw happen to Tyreke.

So you're wrong. Cousins and Tyreke do have to take the most shots on a regular basis in order to force the defense to play them. I assure you defenses are perfectly happy letting Isaiah Thomas or John Salmons beat them on 1 on 1 created shots. Nobody would mind if your beloved Isaiah Thomas was simply hitting shots created for him but the fact is that most of his shots taken were selfish chucks. The reason why the Spurs get guys like Danny Green and Matt Bonner is because they don't demand shots for themselves and rarely take anything on their own. That's how the Spurs end up leading the league in assists/game. And you don't pay guys 8 million a year just to hit open 3s.

Or how about the criticism of Lebron James when he isn't aggressive, i.e. taking shots. He can have 10 assists and actually be playing a good team game but the team is at their best when he's scoring. What's the point of stars and superstars if you're not going to run your offense through them?

 

[Padrino]

But the reason why guys like Danny Green are getting these wide open shots is because Tony Parker is the clear focus of their offense. He is their primary option and they run all their pick and rolls for him to either score or create for others. Tony Parker only had 6 points but he had 8 assists. If the stars aren't getting shot attempts then they should be getting assists by passing it out to the open guy. It's all about the role players playing OFF of the stars. That's the most important thing, not the absolute shot attempt numbers. It just so happens that the focus is on shot attempts particularly because Tyreke isn't Chris Paul or Rajon Rondo. "Taking away" shots and playing off of guys are completely different things, and it's foolish to lump them into one concept. Tony Parker could have only 3 FGA the entire game to Danny Green's 20, but I assure you that the Spurs offense will still run the same way on every possession, pick and roll for Parker to create for a Green open shot. There is ZERO chance that he would go for multiple possessions without being the driver of the offense, let alone just touching the ball like we saw happen to Tyreke.

So you're wrong. Cousins and Tyreke do have to take the most shots on a regular basis in order to force the defense to play them. I assure you defenses are perfectly happy letting Isaiah Thomas or John Salmons beat them on 1 on 1 created shots. Nobody would mind if your beloved Isaiah Thomas was simply hitting shots created for him but the fact is that most of his shots taken were selfish chucks. The reason why the Spurs get guys like Danny Green and Matt Bonner is because they don't demand shots for themselves and rarely take anything on their own. That's how the Spurs end up leading the league in assists/game. And you don't pay guys 8 million a year just to hit open 3s.

Or how about the criticism of Lebron James when he isn't aggressive, i.e. taking shots. He can have 10 assists and actually be playing a good team game but the team is at their best when he's scoring. What's the point of stars and superstars if you're not going to run your offense through them?

you're walking into the classic Kingster trap: he will fire back about how because demarcus cousins and tyreke evans are not "stars," and that your argument is invalidated because they're not good enough in this moment to deserve such attention. that said, i happen to be in absolute agreement with you. a defense will happily cede outside shots to the streaky isaiah thomas all night long if it means that they don't have to put up with DMC shoving the ball down their throat on the low block. a defense will happily cede outside shots to the streaky marcus thornton all night long if it means that they don't have to put up with tyreke evans slicing them up in the lane...

"stars" at present or not, DMC and 'reke have the potential to be great, and they're very clearly the kings' two most potent weapons. they dominate the scouting reports, and i guarantee you that opposing defenses love seeing lesser kings chuck from all over the court, because that is when the kings' offense collapses, when everybody decides they deserve to shoot jumpers. keith smart's was an inconsistent approach, at best, but an offense should prioritize its weapons in order to create spacing on the court. you always play inside-out in the contemporary nba, and DMC and 'reke have the kind of paint-oriented talent that allows for the elevating of teammates. the goal should be in finding the right teammates (ya know, something other than a collection of undersized, ball dominant chuckers) to play off of them...

 

[Darth Divac]

Apparently, Spo is considering starting Mike Miller over Haslem. Don't really understand the logic there.

 

[jalfa]

Apparently, Spo is considering starting Mike Miller over Haslem. Don't really understand the logic there.

spacing. as long as the Spurs completely ignore Wade (and boy do they ever), there is no possible way of getting James the ball without having him see 3-4 defenders on the way to the basket. Zach Lowe mentioned that any lineup featuring two bigs has been outscored by the Spurs and all have been an absolute desaster on offense. the only alternative to starting Miller instead of Haslem would be to start Allen instead of Wade, but that's not something Spoelstra could do as easily. of course the Miller gambit will take away from the Heat's defense and quite a bit so, so this could be a bit of a shootout today. ideally for Miami, Battier returns from the dead, but since that seems unlikely at this point, they're kinda stuck.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

that illegal screen called on Danny Green was laughable

 

[HereWeBoogie]

looking like the same story as last game. Spurs players getting hacked when they get the ball in the paint, mainly Splitter. No calls at all. Ticky Tack calls on the other end going against SA.

 

[kingsnation]

Fantastic game so far. Looks like it may be the first to go to the wire since Game 1.

 

[est.1999]

Spurs are getting every single call right now and they're still gonna lose.

 

[est.1999]

looking like the same story as last game. Spurs players getting hacked when they get the ball in the paint, mainly Splitter. No calls at all. Ticky Tack calls on the other end going against SA.

Lmao what in the hell? What game are you watching???

 

[HereWeBoogie]

Lmao what in the hell? What game are you watching???

i could ask you the same thing. all i see are the Heat flopping, going over the back for every rebound, traveling (LeBron on the fast break dunk with a clear travel when he juked Parker) hacking Spurs players in the paint.

the ONLY call that went the Spurs way was the Wade foul when he blocked Duncan. but even that could easily be a foul the way he came across his arm

 

[est.1999]

i could ask you the same thing. all i see are the Heat flopping, going over the back for every rebound, traveling (LeBron on the fast break dunk with a clear travel when he juked Parker) hacking Spurs players in the paint.

the ONLY call that went the Spurs way was the Wade foul when he blocked Duncan. but even that could easily be a foul the way he came across his arm

And the bosh foul on Leonard.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

was clearly a foul on Bosh, youre kidding right?

 

[est.1999]

Did you go back and look at it? I'm assuming no.

Look, you're clearly biased and want Miami to lose. I want Miami to win, but if San Antonio were to win I wouldn't be too upset. So I don't watch with a clouded view. Get it?

 

[HereWeBoogie]

Did you go back and look at it? I'm assuming no.

Look, you're clearly biased and want Miami to lose. I want Miami to win, but if San Antonio were to win I wouldn't be too upset. So I don't watch with a clouded view. Get it?

clearly you do

 

[Kingsfan23]

tired of the blowouts

 

[HereWeBoogie]

tired of the blowouts

seriously. i can't remember the last time a 2-2 Finals series was so lame!

 

[PurpleHaze]

seriously. i can't remember the last time a 2-2 Finals series was so lame!

Seriously? Name better recent one. I see an extreme high level of play, tough competiveness, lots of top shelf execution, chess match between two excellent coaches, back against the wall mentality and more - making it a very compelling NBA final. I picked Spurs in 7 but whoever wins next one on Sunday surely wins the series - I think??

Game one of this series was an all time classic. The last three games have been very tight for three or three and a half quarters at least. "Blowouts" is a bit overblown.

 

[VF21]

clearly you do

You know, I have to agree with est.1999. Your bias towards the Spurs is kinda off-setting. It's not always about bad calls, flopping, etc. (which has happened on both ends of the court, BTW). I hated it when Kings fans did it back in the good times, and i still hate it now. If you're going to point the finger on missed calls or flops on one end, you have to be wiling to accept them on the other end.

All in all, I don't really have a problem with the officiating in this series. It is what it is. If you can find a way to look past your own bias, you're gonna start to notice the incredible coaching duel going on. And you're gonna notice how much both teams want this series.

Just my two cents, but there's a lot more going on that's worthy of discussion.

/end rant

 

[VF21]

Seriously? Name better recent one. I see an extreme high level of play, tough competiveness, lots of top shelf execution, chess match between two excellent coaches, back against the wall mentality and more - making it a very compelling NBA final. I picked Spurs in 7 but whoever wins next one on Sunday surely wins the series - I think??

Game one of this series was an all time classic. The last three games have been very tight for three or three and a half quarters at least. "Blowouts" is a bit overblown.

Totally agree!

 

[KingsFanGER]

I dont understand why Duncan and Splitter are so impatient in the paint. They allow Wade and James to block their shots by going straight up as soon as they catch the ball instead of faking a shot. Wade is a brilliant shotblocker for a SG but he is 6'4 and has to jump to block shots by Splitter or Duncan. Why dont they use it to their advantage like Hibbert did in the ECF?

 

[jalfa]

I dont understand why Duncan and Splitter are so impatient in the paint. They allow Wade and James to block their shots by going straight up as soon as they catch the ball instead of faking a shot. Wade is a brilliant shotblocker for a SG but he is 6'4 and has to jump to block shots by Splitter or Duncan. Why dont they use it to their advantage like Hibbert did in the ECF?

yup. kinda looked like the Heat were happier for the Spurs to hit their roll man and just swarming that guy, especially when Splitter was 5 kinds of terrible tonight (getting stuffed twice and turning the ball over otherwise). in general, the Heat's help defense under their own basket was pretty damn good, especially Bosh of all people. on defense, apart from Wade finally being good again (damn!) and Bosh providing some spark as well, it hurt the Spurs a lot that they kept losing Allen on cuts and screens. didn't pay enough attention and can't really be bothered to look it up now, but I bet that quite a few of those screens were set by LeBron, which would explain why they were so hesitant to help out on those.

had the Heat in six, originally, which looks kind of iffy, despite the blowout. this series is looking more unpredictable by the game. if, for instance, Manu comes alive any time soon, the dynamic could change again, completely.

 

[mac]

You know, I have to agree with est.1999. Your bias towards the Spurs is kinda off-setting. It's not always about bad calls, flopping, etc. (which has happened on both ends of the court, BTW). I hated it when Kings fans did it back in the good times, and i still hate it now. If you're going to point the finger on missed calls or flops on one end, you have to be wiling to accept them on the other end.

All in all, I don't really have a problem with the officiating in this series. It is what it is. If you can find a way to look past your own bias, you're gonna start to notice the incredible coaching duel going on. And you're gonna notice how much both teams want this series.

Just my two cents, but there's a lot more going on that's worthy of discussion.

/end rant

My real biggest issue is the number of bad out of bounds calls that the refs have been making. It's a good load in favor of the Heat. As I've said before bad calls may go either way, but the timing of those calls isn't necessarily averaged out. That can have a huge impact on the momentum of a game. It's not a match fixing thing or anything like that but it is what it is, and as far as one series or one game goes it is a fact that bad calls can put a team at a disadvantage. The law of averages doesn't necessitate that such calls are averaged out over 7 games. That's too small a sample size (but I'm sure the Capt will correct me if I'm wrong and put me to shame ).

I also think it's funny anytime Kings fans of all people complain about people complaining about bad officiating.

And. I don't see how it is possible for a person to root for a team but be happy if the other team wins. Are you really rooting for the first team then? You may be happy when it's all said and done in terms of having ONE of your favorite teams win, but I don't see how you can possibly be 100% objective if you're rooting for one team over the other when they are playing.

All that said, VF you are totally right in saying that this series is a good one. It's exciting to see two of the best teams go against each other, seemingly evenly matched and having every game's result be unpredictable. As much as I feel that there are calls putting the Spurs at a disadvantage I will not reduce the outcome of this series to bad officiating, not at this point at least. Maybe in a close out game, but not now. We've gotten to see spectacular play from superstars and role players alike, as well as adjustments galore to the credit of both head coaches. I'm rooting for the Spurs, and I will NOT be happy if Miami wins

 

[mac]

yup. kinda looked like the Heat were happier for the Spurs to hit their roll man and just swarming that guy, especially when Splitter was 5 kinds of terrible tonight (getting stuffed twice and turning the ball over otherwise). in general, the Heat's help defense under their own basket was pretty damn good, especially Bosh of all people. on defense, apart from Wade finally being good again (damn!) and Bosh providing some spark as well, it hurt the Spurs a lot that they kept losing Allen on cuts and screens. didn't pay enough attention and can't really be bothered to look it up now, but I bet that quite a few of those screens were set by LeBron, which would explain why they were so hesitant to help out on those.

had the Heat in six, originally, which looks kind of iffy, despite the blowout. this series is looking more unpredictable by the game. if, for instance, Manu comes alive any time soon, the dynamic could change again, completely.

Totally agree about Splitter. He needs to react faster if he's going to pass the ball, because the Heat are really quick and are anticipating the pass. Give the Heat credit, they're making it very difficult for the Spurs to make clean passes. Tony Parker put it very well - the Heat are gambling on these plays a lot, and as far as game 4 went the gambling paid off.