The 2013 NBA Finals: (1) Miami Heat vs (2) San Antonio Spurs

[LPKingsFan]

Reason #304 why Lebron will NEVER be Michael Jordan or anywhere near that level:

Go back and watch the block he just made on Tiago. Lebron stood under the hoop showing off to the crowd while he left his teammates 4-on-5 at the other end. He had to come full sprint to get involved back in the play.

Selfish, immature and all about him.

Exactly. Exhibit A why I can't root for LeBron even though he's so talented and can do things no one else can. That block was brilliant, but instead of capitalizing on it by trying to make another brilliant play on offense he stays on that end of the court for his own personal celebration time while the rest of his time goes four-on-five. Jordan, Magic, Bird, etc would have never done that. Not even Kobe!

 

[Padrino]

Reason #304 why Lebron will NEVER be Michael Jordan or anywhere near that level:

Go back and watch the block he just made on Tiago. Lebron stood under the hoop showing off to the crowd while he left his teammates 4-on-5 at the other end. He had to come full sprint to get involved back in the play.

Selfish, immature and all about him.

while i would not consider myself a fan of lebron james, i hardly think this is a fair characterization. james spent most of the game deferring to his teammates, attempting to get them involved. it's been the major knock on him his whole career, that he's not selfish, and that he goes too far out of his way to be a playmaker for inferior talents. in this instance, the gambit paid off, because 'bron had a poor shooting night, and his teammates decided to get hot at just the right time...

 

[jalfa]

Exactly. Exhibit A why I can't root for LeBron even though he's so talented and can do things no one else can. That block was brilliant, but instead of capitalizing on it by trying to make another brilliant play on offense he stays on that end of the court for his own personal celebration time while the rest of his time goes four-on-five. Jordan, Magic, Bird, etc would have never done that. Not even Kobe!

it was a 19-point game with 8 minutes left in the fourth. I'm all for bashing LeBron when he deserves it, but come on.

 

[est.1999]

Exactly. Exhibit A why I can't root for LeBron even though he's so talented and can do things no one else can. That block was brilliant, but instead of capitalizing on it by trying to make another brilliant play on offense he stays on that end of the court for his own personal celebration time while the rest of his time goes four-on-five. Jordan, Magic, Bird, etc would have never done that. Not even Kobe!

Like I said, this forum is becoming delusional.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Like I said, this forum is becoming delusional.

I'm just glad it wasn't Cuz with that block and then the little strut. Whoo-ee!

 

[HereWeBoogie]

it was a 19-point game with 8 minutes left in the fourth. I'm all for bashing LeBron when he deserves it, but come on.

which makes LPKingsFan's point even more valid.

why is he down there celebrating a block in garbage time of a blowout?????

SELFISH & ARROGANT

 

[jalfa]

which makes LPKingsFan's point even more valid.

why is he down there celebrating a block in garbage time of a blowout?????

SELFISH & ARROGANT

because it was a pretty awesome block and there really was not much of a need for him to do anything on the offensive end afterwards. nevermind that he actually did go down the other end and made a play that resulted in a Ray Allen three. just ask yourself this: if it is any other player, would you mind? I wouldn't.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

yes if i saw anyone celebrate a block in garbage time like a complete clown, i would think the same thing

 

[jalfa]

yes if i saw anyone celebrate a block in garbage time like a complete clown, i would think the same thing

fair enough. if 2 seconds of mean mugging at a meaningless point of a finals home game is enough for you to remove someone from the all-time great conversation and this is more than confirmation bias, have at it. be sure to apply it equally to all players, though.

 

[kingsnation]

it was a 19-point game with 8 minutes left in the fourth. I'm all for bashing LeBron when he deserves it, but come on.

Fact is, he took a moment to soak in the glory of his play while the game and his team continued without him. If you're cool with that, so be it. I guess my expectations are a little higher for the league MVP in Game 2 of the NBA Finals.

..And yes, I would feel the same way for any other player in the league.

 

[kingsnation]

while i would not consider myself a fan of lebron james, i hardly think this is a fair characterization. james spent most of the game deferring to his teammates, attempting to get them involved. it's been the major knock on him his whole career, that he's not selfish, and that he goes too far out of his way to be a playmaker for inferior talents. in this instance, the gambit paid off, because 'bron had a poor shooting night, and his teammates decided to get hot at just the right time...

You're right, he is a great and willing distributor. I was referring more to his personality (showboating after the block) than his on-the-court play (a great and willing passer.) Apologies if that wasn't clarified.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

fair enough. if 2 seconds of mean mugging at a meaningless point of a finals home game is enough for you to remove someone from the all-time great conversation and this is more than confirmation bias, have at it. be sure to apply it equally to all players, though.

i didnt say that, there are many more reasons why he doesnt belong in the all-time great conversation. like teaming up with other superstars, the constant flopping, lack of clutch shooting, and the arrogant showboating.

if he's really one the greats, and the best player currently in the league, why is he always flopping on the ground like he's a little girl? for god sakes he's bigger than most football players, why is he getting knocked over by people 60 pounds lighter than him

 

[jalfa]

i didnt say that, there are many more reasons why he doesnt belong in the all-time great conversation. like teaming up with other superstars, the constant flopping, lack of clutch shooting, and the arrogant showboating.

if he's really one the greats, and the best player currently in the league, why is he always flopping on the ground like he's a little girl? for god sakes he's bigger than most football players, why is he getting knocked over by people 60 pounds lighter than him

*shrug*. most of those things are character questions that I, admittedly, don't care much about anyway. the lack of clutch shooting is a bit of a myth and the flopping thing I find overstated as well.

as for the showboating thing: if that had happened on another teams' floor or he had actually hurt his team in the process, I'd have taken offense, as it happened, I repeat: *shrug*.

 

[mac]

*shrug*. most of those things are character questions that I, admittedly, don't care much about anyway. the lack of clutch shooting is a bit of a myth and the flopping thing I find overstated as well.

as for the showboating thing: if that had happened on another teams' floor or he had actually hurt his team in the process, I'd have taken offense, as it happened, I repeat: *shrug*.

Can I just clear something up? Are you a LBJ/Heat fan? I know est1999 is a LBJ fan.

 

[jalfa]

Can I just clear something up? Are you a LBJ/Heat fan? I know est1999 is a LBJ fan.

not even a bit. been rooting against them since they've come together. Wade is actually my least favourite player in the league and I absolutely cannot stand Chalmers. James is a bit of a different story for me, as I do greatly admire his approach to the game and the way he plays it, although I do concur that he seems to be a complete ***hat.

I'm just trying to be objective though and point out that all the "this is fixed" talk seems to be inappropriate in the face of a team clearly outplaying the other one.

 

[mac]

not even a bit. been rooting against them since they've come together. Wade is actually my least favourite player in the league and I absolutely cannot stand Chalmers. James is a bit of a different story for me, as I do greatly admire his approach to the game and the way he plays it, although I do concur that he seems to be a complete ***hat.

I'm just trying to be objective though and point out that all the "this is fixed" talk seems to be inappropriate in the face of a team clearly outplaying the other one.

Here's the thing I don't think you've fully grasped, or at least this is my opinion and I of course could be wrong. Basketball is a game of momentum and runs. You wouldn't say two or three calls favoring one team equates to the game being rigged, but because of the nature of the game and the psychology involved just a 2-3 minute stretch of "bad officiating" can lead to a team getting blown out. There is no denying that the Heat outplayed the Spurs in this game - even the Spurs players credit Miami. Pop said that the Heat played great and played their butts off. But the Spurs were right in the game all the way to the near end of the 3rd, so I don't entirely agree that Miami "clearly outplayed" the Spurs. Like I said earlier it was just a strange game, and even if the refs were calling it equally it favored a Miami team that hardly plays inside. Parker and Duncan on the other hand were getting whacked but weren't getting calls. I saw many a Parker bounce pass get kicked and not called, resulting in a TO. The Heat players were very active defensively, but they also got away with a lot of reach in fouls.

Do I think the game was fixed? No ... but I sure as hell think that the officiating left much to be desired at times. Personally I find it hard to ever be completely objective. I could be watching a Bobcats-Raptors game and still somewhat root for one of them. I say this because I realize that naturally I'm only watching the bad calls that hurt the Spurs, and not the ones that hurt the Heat. "Fixed" is a bit of an exaggeration ... but anyone who "objectively" watches Miami has to see that they get a lot of calls going their way. Nothing new ... big market with a bunch of superstars. I mean Lebron James averaged 1.45 fouls/ game in 38 minutes. He may be a good defensive player but he isn't that good.

 

[jalfa]

well, it was only that close because Danny Green had hit an unprecedented (for him at least) amount of three pointers and James had been held down by Leonard's defense. that shift in the game came about with the Spurs not hitting their threes anymore, whilst having all their lanes cut off by said active defense and the Heat generating a ton of clean looks running a Chalmers-LBJ p'n'r with James as a screener (and Wade on the bench). I didn't see much uncalled reaching or anybody profitting overly from the way the game was called. maybe that's subjective of me and my respect for what the Heat are doing has unwittingly made my a Miami homer that is a real possibility. however, I can only tell you what I'm seeing and I didn't see any bad officiating, a perspective supported by pretty much all the expert analysis I've read on this game or any other Heat game since the ECF.

 

[VF21]

because it was a pretty awesome block and there really was not much of a need for him to do anything on the offensive end afterwards. nevermind that he actually did go down the other end and made a play that resulted in a Ray Allen three. just ask yourself this: if it is any other player, would you mind? I wouldn't.

Would I mind? Yep.

As HereWeVivek said, it was "a block in garbage time of a blowout". LBJ's mindset hasn't changed. This is in the same vein as "The Decision." It's all about him.

I guess I missed something, however. I didn't see anyone saying they were removing James from the all-time great conversation. What LP said, and I heartily endorse, is that I do not personally root for him because, talent aside, I just do not like him.

 

[jalfa]

Would I mind? Yep.

As HereWeVivek said, it was "a block in garbage time of a blowout". LBJ's mindset hasn't changed. This is in the same vein as "The Decision." It's all about him.

I guess I missed something, however. I didn't see anyone saying they were removing James from the all-time great conversation. What LP said, and I heartily endorse, is that I do not personally root for him because, talent aside, I just do not like him.

kingsnation's original point was that because of his showboating, James would never be Jordan or anywhere near him, LP added several other names to that list. whatever, it's all semantics anyway. I'd like to stress that I don't like and won't root for James either and that I feel fairly yucky defending him, but the criticism levelled against him and the Heat here seems, at times, unreasonable and biased.

 

[Turgenev]

LeBron James is a great player and a freak of nature. Showboating after you make a good play is annoying but not unique to LeBron.

I have no interest in supporting him because of comments such as 'I don't get enough credit for taking a pay cut' etc.

First, this comment was not made at a prosperous time for the world. Eg youth unemployment in Spain was 48%. Does he think that people exist to worship his every move? LeBron 'Mother Teresa' James. Sure.

Second, to play with the Heat, he may take a loss to his direct pay, but surely he would get more via endorsements (if that's possible) to play in Miami with his buddies. One pay check is smaller, the others larger. No drama.

Third- he did get some credit when he took a 'pay cut'. He went on TV and then him and his buddies threw a party for the city.

Of course my dislike of LeBron is not of Moby Dick proportions and I will suffer no loss of sleep if he wins 8 championships. Just temporary discomfort.

 

[Turgenev]

What LP said, and I heartily endorse, is that I do not personally root for him because, talent aside, I just do not like him.

Yes!!!

 

[VF21]

kingsnation's original point was that because of his showboating, James would never be Jordan or anywhere near him, LP added several other names to that list. whatever, it's all semantics anyway. I'd like to stress that I don't like and won't root for James either and that I feel fairly yucky defending him, but the criticism levelled against him and the Heat here seems, at times, unreasonable and biased.

Fair enough. It's all good.

 

[Amory]

Fact is, he took a moment to soak in the glory of his play while the game and his team continued without him. If you're cool with that, so be it. I guess my expectations are a little higher for the league MVP in Game 2 of the NBA Finals.

..And yes, I would feel the same way for any other player in the league.

/cosigned

 

[HereWeBoogie]

this is looking just like the last couple games of the Indiana series, where Heat defenders could absolutely hack opposing big men in the paint and get away with it.

 

[VF21]

This has been a great game so far. I'm sitting in the living room by myself cheering myself hoarse for a team from Texas?!?!?!? Love it!

 

[kingsnation]

I can't recall which NBA Analyst made the comment after Game 2, but they said that momentum doesn't exist game-to-game in the NBA Finals. Thus far, that's been absolutely correct as every single game so far has been completely different from each other. Both teams are delivering completely different performances each night.

BTW, Leonard is a BEAST on the boards!

 

[kingsnation]

This is the San Antonio version of Game 2.

 

[kingsnation]

Heat have lots of firepower. That's why no lead is safe and they have to keep piling on.

 

[kingsnation]

Oh my goodness!

 

[PurpleHaze]

What's that particular stat? Something like around 80% of teams that win game 3 after 1-1 tie go on to capture Finals title. I think last one that didn't win it after such was Miami against eventual champ Dallas couple years ago.