2013 Draft Prospects
- Thread starter Vlade4GM
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I know your leery of instant wonders, but other than that, do you have any particular things you don't like about McGary? Just curious. He seems to have a nose for the ball and rebounds well. He has a good touch around the basket, and appears to be a hustle guy. His man defense, in the small sampling we've had, appears to be decent to good. I admit, he'd be a bit of a reach at this point, and I think a lot would depend on bringing him in for a closer look at his skill level. Telemachus compared him to David Lee, and I think thats a good comparison at this point. Except I think he's a little bigger than Lee, and a better athlete than he's being given credit for. As a matter of fact, its his athleticism thats surprised me. He's a lot quicker than I thought he would be.
If nothing else, he would add some depth to the draft.
If nothing else, he would add some depth to the draft.
I don't think McGary is a guaranteed starter based on what I've seen so far, but that's true of everyone in the 5-10 range this year. He stands to benefit from a relative lack of quality big men this year and a weak talent level overall. Because he was off the radar most of the season his performance in the draft combine is going to weigh pretty heavily on his draft stock if he stays in. He's going to have to show people that he's able to get himself into good shape and that he's at least average on length and athleticism. But if you go down the hype checklist -- highly ranked high school prospect? Check. Improved throughout the course of the season? Check. Played well in big games? Double check. And unless he lays a stinker in the championship game, his stock is trending up which is what you want to happen just before the draft. It gives people the illusion that your ceiling is higher than it is.
I'm a little leery of the sub-par regular season numbers he put up too, but then Irving didn't have much of a college track record either. I don't think I'd take him top 5, but I'd certainly consider him in the 5-10 range. Then we could talk about fit, but there's plenty of time for that later. I'm rooting for him to come through tonight because the other prospects this season have been almost universally disappointing in the tournament.
I'm a little leery of the sub-par regular season numbers he put up too, but then Irving didn't have much of a college track record either. I don't think I'd take him top 5, but I'd certainly consider him in the 5-10 range. Then we could talk about fit, but there's plenty of time for that later. I'm rooting for him to come through tonight because the other prospects this season have been almost universally disappointing in the tournament.
I DO like him. Having watched all of Michigans tournament games (intending to watch Burke) McGary HAS stood out as a 'better' player. I put it in quotes because I do not think he will be a better pro than Burke, but he has played better in this tournament. Side note on Burke - not as impressed with him as others seem to be. My viewing is a smaller sample size than yours, Baja, so you could easily be right on him - but my reaction so far on Burke has been 'he's fine'. I say that to say - if we don't draft him I don't think there is a lot of regret potential like there is on a guy like Lillard in this past years draft. I could be wrong! but I think Carter-Williams has a little more potential, however I'm not overly impressed with either guy.
My issue with McGary, first and foremost is the fact that I think top 10 is too high. After that, the next thing on my list is that I find him a little too similar to Jason Thompson. Not necessarily because they are identical players with identical skill set. They do things differently, but ultimately I think the production will be the same. Good size, good energy, good rebounder, decent defender (at best).
I go back to Cousins every time I talk about trading, signing, or drafting another big man. At this point in time we have 2 legit NBA player power forwards. Patterson and Thompson. The bad news is neither guy is the 'perfect' player to pair with DeMarcus. Neither guy is good enough on the defensive end to truly protect the rim and make up for how bad Cousins is on that end. Add McGary and you have 3 perfectly fine power forwards with none of them working with your overall best player. This is the same reason why I was hesitant to go all in on Thomas Robinson. Even if Trob panned out, I knew we'd have issues on the defensive end for eternity with those two playing a bulk of the big man minutes.
I keep saying this, but it is again why I loved WCS so much. Athletic, long, role playing defensive big man! and from Kentucky no less. Perfect fit.
Maybe WCS will change his mind and make me happy, maybe he won't but I think I'd prefer Dieng over McGary. I don't like Dieng's age, but maybe that extra experience will allow him to come in and play right away. You mentioned Withey in another post - I know he can block shots, but I don't know if he can cover the same amount of ground a guy like Dieng can.
Actually, now that I finished up this post - I just realized McGary and Dieng will get to play against each other tonight. Exciting!
Also - I think Otto Porter is the guy we all want. Draft Express has him going right in our range, so .... you never know
My issue with McGary, first and foremost is the fact that I think top 10 is too high. After that, the next thing on my list is that I find him a little too similar to Jason Thompson. Not necessarily because they are identical players with identical skill set. They do things differently, but ultimately I think the production will be the same. Good size, good energy, good rebounder, decent defender (at best).
I go back to Cousins every time I talk about trading, signing, or drafting another big man. At this point in time we have 2 legit NBA player power forwards. Patterson and Thompson. The bad news is neither guy is the 'perfect' player to pair with DeMarcus. Neither guy is good enough on the defensive end to truly protect the rim and make up for how bad Cousins is on that end. Add McGary and you have 3 perfectly fine power forwards with none of them working with your overall best player. This is the same reason why I was hesitant to go all in on Thomas Robinson. Even if Trob panned out, I knew we'd have issues on the defensive end for eternity with those two playing a bulk of the big man minutes.
I keep saying this, but it is again why I loved WCS so much. Athletic, long, role playing defensive big man! and from Kentucky no less. Perfect fit.
Maybe WCS will change his mind and make me happy, maybe he won't but I think I'd prefer Dieng over McGary. I don't like Dieng's age, but maybe that extra experience will allow him to come in and play right away. You mentioned Withey in another post - I know he can block shots, but I don't know if he can cover the same amount of ground a guy like Dieng can.
Actually, now that I finished up this post - I just realized McGary and Dieng will get to play against each other tonight. Exciting!
Also - I think Otto Porter is the guy we all want. Draft Express has him going right in our range, so .... you never know
I DO like him. Having watched all of Michigans tournament games (intending to watch Burke) McGary HAS stood out as a 'better' player. I put it in quotes because I do not think he will be a better pro than Burke, but he has played better in this tournament. Side note on Burke - not as impressed with him as others seem to be. My viewing is a smaller sample size than yours, Baja, so you could easily be right on him - but my reaction so far on Burke has been 'he's fine'. I say that to say - if we don't draft him I don't think there is a lot of regret potential like there is on a guy like Lillard in this past years draft. I could be wrong! but I think Carter-Williams has a little more potential, however I'm not overly impressed with either guy.
My issue with McGary, first and foremost is the fact that I think top 10 is too high. After that, the next thing on my list is that I find him a little too similar to Jason Thompson. Not necessarily because they are identical players with identical skill set. They do things differently, but ultimately I think the production will be the same. Good size, good energy, good rebounder, decent defender (at best).
I go back to Cousins every time I talk about trading, signing, or drafting another big man. At this point in time we have 2 legit NBA player power forwards. Patterson and Thompson. The bad news is neither guy is the 'perfect' player to pair with DeMarcus. Neither guy is good enough on the defensive end to truly protect the rim and make up for how bad Cousins is on that end. Add McGary and you have 3 perfectly fine power forwards with none of them working with your overall best player. This is the same reason why I was hesitant to go all in on Thomas Robinson. Even if Trob panned out, I knew we'd have issues on the defensive end for eternity with those two playing a bulk of the big man minutes.
I keep saying this, but it is again why I loved WCS so much. Athletic, long, role playing defensive big man! and from Kentucky no less. Perfect fit.
Maybe WCS will change his mind and make me happy, maybe he won't but I think I'd prefer Dieng over McGary. I don't like Dieng's age, but maybe that extra experience will allow him to come in and play right away. You mentioned Withey in another post - I know he can block shots, but I don't know if he can cover the same amount of ground a guy like Dieng can.
Actually, now that I finished up this post - I just realized McGary and Dieng will get to play against each other tonight. Exciting!
Also - I think Otto Porter is the guy we all want. Draft Express has him going right in our range, so .... you never know
My issue with McGary, first and foremost is the fact that I think top 10 is too high. After that, the next thing on my list is that I find him a little too similar to Jason Thompson. Not necessarily because they are identical players with identical skill set. They do things differently, but ultimately I think the production will be the same. Good size, good energy, good rebounder, decent defender (at best).
I go back to Cousins every time I talk about trading, signing, or drafting another big man. At this point in time we have 2 legit NBA player power forwards. Patterson and Thompson. The bad news is neither guy is the 'perfect' player to pair with DeMarcus. Neither guy is good enough on the defensive end to truly protect the rim and make up for how bad Cousins is on that end. Add McGary and you have 3 perfectly fine power forwards with none of them working with your overall best player. This is the same reason why I was hesitant to go all in on Thomas Robinson. Even if Trob panned out, I knew we'd have issues on the defensive end for eternity with those two playing a bulk of the big man minutes.
I keep saying this, but it is again why I loved WCS so much. Athletic, long, role playing defensive big man! and from Kentucky no less. Perfect fit.
Maybe WCS will change his mind and make me happy, maybe he won't but I think I'd prefer Dieng over McGary. I don't like Dieng's age, but maybe that extra experience will allow him to come in and play right away. You mentioned Withey in another post - I know he can block shots, but I don't know if he can cover the same amount of ground a guy like Dieng can.
Actually, now that I finished up this post - I just realized McGary and Dieng will get to play against each other tonight. Exciting!
Also - I think Otto Porter is the guy we all want. Draft Express has him going right in our range, so .... you never know
Where we really agree is on Willie Cauley-Stein, and Otto Porter. I'd love to have either of those guys, especially Porter since he plays a position of need. And boy, do we ever need a good SF. Unfortunately Porter is the only SF that I'd waste a 1st round pick on. As much as I like Burke, I don't think we need to draft a PG. If were going to bring in another PG, I'd perfer it to be one with experience. A Lowery or a Calderon. I'm inclined to go with Oladipo if everyone else I like is taken. He plays with extreme intensity and is a freak athlete. Put him on the floor with Douglas and you be able to terrorize every other backcourt defensively. And he can hit the spot up three.
The one thing I don't worry about is having too many bigs on the team. We've gone too long with too few. The more big bodies you can throw at the other team the better. So whether we draft one or not, we need at least one more big body. My gut tells me that Aldrich won't be back, and personally, I think Withey has more upside than Aldrich. For one thing, he's taller, and has a little more offense to his game. However, I wouldn't be upset if they decide to retain Aldrich.
I've been listening to Scouting chatter, and the consenus seems to be that McLemore is going to be a star, and that his poor performance in the tournament hasn't affected his standing. Some scouts think that Oladipo may have more immediate impact than McLemore, but that down the road, Oladipo will be a role player, and McLemore will be the newest version of Ray Allen. Probably not fair to McLemore to make that comparison. So it looks like either Noel or McLemore is slotted to be the first pick in the draft, depending on whose doing the picking and their needs. Hopefully you, or Draftexpress is right about Porter falling into our draft range.
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Yeah, Noel and McLemore are the two guys here with serious star potential. Porter and Oladipo look like your classic low ceiling, high floor prospects. They both represent a little more value for us than they would some other teams though because we're so desperate for solid production at the 3 spot and perimeter defense. I wouldn't mind reaching a bit for either of them if we end up picking 3rd somehow just because the fit is so good. And because I have so many questions about the rest of the field -- Smart, Zeller, Muhammad, Bennett, Burke, Len, Carter-Williams, maybe McGary. I'd be nervous about drafting any of those guys because I think they all need the right situation to be able to succeed. I'd actually prefer that we try to trade our pick for two mid-round picks (maybe Atlanta's 18 and 20 pick or Minnesota's 9 and 26 pick) if we find ourselves in that 5-10 range and both Oladipo and Porter are off the board. There are a number of guys in the mid to late first round who I think have just as much potential as the current 5-10 group and drafting two of them at least gives us better odds of getting one valuable player out of this. In that category I'd put McAdoo, Withey, Mitchell, Kabongo, that Nigerian player Adetokoubo, CJ Leslie, and Allen Crabbe. That or just trade out of the draft all together. There's a hidden star somewhere in this draft, I'm confident of that, but good luck finding him.
I know there's a ton of hype around Trey Burke right now, but how do you guys feel about him? Any good NBA comparisons? I only watch NCAA basketball for the tournament, and he's been the most exciting player to watch in the tournament so far. Based on just his play and not his talent/potential, I like drafting him for the Kings.
He's got to be a top 10 pick. I like him better than McLemore. McLemore can shoot better, but for the total package and a guy who could at times dominate a game, I like Burke. He reminds me of a smaller Westbrook or Rose with his aggression and explosiveness. He has a lot of potential. But it's going to take him a while. Two or three years maybe. I tell you what, though, you draft him and that's pretty hilarious - the guy scores. Heaven forbid if we have a 6 ft pg that can shoot the rock. OMG, I can hear the wailing now...
Dammit. I really liked how Gorgui Dieng played last night. I can see a scenario where HE is the guy you want next to Cousins, but top 10 for him would be crazy - if you believe in the 'experts' opinions.
His biggest knock is his age, however we are actually done rebuilding. We need someone who can play now, and I think Dieng can do that.
He's in the mix for me, personally. Might be my favorite big in this draft after Noel.
His biggest knock is his age, however we are actually done rebuilding. We need someone who can play now, and I think Dieng can do that.
He's in the mix for me, personally. Might be my favorite big in this draft after Noel.
I watched Burke all year, and ironicly, the way he played in the tournament, is not quite the way he played all year long. Although he proved he could score the ball effeciently throughout the year, he was more of a pass first player most of the time, and only scoring when necessary. In the tounament, he sort of went away from that, and put muck more emphasis on scoring the ball. I like him better when he's creating for others. But I know what he's capable of, so it didn't change my opinion of him. However, if all you saw of him was the tounament, then you haven't seen the total Trey Burke.
I liked Both Dieng and McGary last night. Although McGary didn't put up any great numbers, he really didn't get much of a chance, as they hardly went to him in the post, which I think was a mistake, and maybe cost them the game. Live by the three point shot and die by the three point shot. As for age, I'm very confused as to why people have such concern about it. Whats the longest any player has ever played on the Kings? I mean players come and go at such a rapid rate, that unless your signing a 33 year old freeagent to a 5 year contract, what does it matter. Dieng will probably play somewhere between 10 and 14 years in the NBA. Just what are the odds of him playing all those years for just one team? Most of the people in the HOF were 21 or 22 years old when they came into the NBA, and most played 12 to 14 years, and had great careers. I just don't see it as an issue. If anything, I see getting a four year player as a plus. He's usually more ready to play in the league right away.
Dieng could be one of those guys that plays better in the NBA than he did in college.
Dieng could be one of those guys that plays better in the NBA than he did in college.
You know, on the other hand we took Brian Grant #8 in the 1994 draft when he was not considered to be a first-rounder - and he turned out to have been basically the best player left on the board. Is Dieng going to be the best player left on the board? I obviously have no idea. But in this draft of all drafts I think you need to go with whoever you think the best guy is.
I agree completely! Too many times we get caught up in whether a player is a reach or not. Peja was a huge reach, as was Hedo. No one had even heard of those guys at the time. And as you point out, Brian Grant was a big reach. If you think someone is the right fit, you take him. In regards to Dieng, I've liked him all season long. I've also liked Withey. Both bring basicly the same thing to the table. Withey is a better shotblocker, but Dieng is a better man defender. Both bring limited offense, but neither is a liability on offense, and if you don't guard them, they can score on you.
Someone suggested trading down if Porter is gone, and thats not a bad idea. Hell, we could draft both of them!!!
Someone suggested trading down if Porter is gone, and thats not a bad idea. Hell, we could draft both of them!!!
I don't really get the age argument too much. Sure, it limits the extent of their upside, but considering the draft is a crapshoot anyway for most players, it doesn't matter too much in the grand scheme. Taj Gibson had similar problems with being an overaged junior in USC and he's a key role player for the Bulls. In fact, I bet Dieng is in the same vein as Gibson. Ginobili came in the league at age 24ish, Bernard James is a 27-year rookie this year and had a 7 block game already. It's about NBA-translatable production. I don't like Shabazz because I don't think he has many NBA translatable skills, not because he's two years older than his class. Same as Plumlee. But Dieng is old as well, and I like the guy. So it's really about production.
Just wondering, what are people's thoughts on Ricky Ledo? There's nothing to go on except for some grainy high school footage, presumably, because he didn't even play a college game. I've heard comparisons of OJ Mayo here. Obviously he's raring for the NBA because he's staying in, but as a highly touted HS'er with a relatively blank slate he might get 2nd round looks.
Just wondering, what are people's thoughts on Ricky Ledo? There's nothing to go on except for some grainy high school footage, presumably, because he didn't even play a college game. I've heard comparisons of OJ Mayo here. Obviously he's raring for the NBA because he's staying in, but as a highly touted HS'er with a relatively blank slate he might get 2nd round looks.
I saw Ledo play in a couple of highschool all star games, if my memory is correct. I believe he's around 6'7" or so, but I believe he played SG in highschool. The one thing I either remember, or read is that he shot the ball very well. Without having any college games to go by, its really hard to give any kind of educated opinion. I do know that he was a top 20 player coming out of highschool, and was susposed to play for Providence this year. Which of course never happened.
I think his draft stock will depend heavily on his privite workouts. If he goes in and wow's some people, who knows, he might work himself into the bottom of the 1st round. But in all likelyhood, he'll be a 2nd round pick.
I think his draft stock will depend heavily on his privite workouts. If he goes in and wow's some people, who knows, he might work himself into the bottom of the 1st round. But in all likelyhood, he'll be a 2nd round pick.
I think that's wrong; this class is really underrated and has a lot of great potential. You've got got guys Ben Mclemore, Nerlens Noel, Anthony Bennett, Victor Oladipo, Marcus Smart and Trey Burke who all look like future superstars, you've got solid, well rounded starters in guys like Otto Porter, Glenn Robinson III, Alex Len, Cody Zeller and Kelly Olynyk, and you've goot value in the later rounds with guys like Mitch McGary, Jeff Withey, Nate Wolters, Isaiah Austin (laugh at me if you wish, I think he has potential), and Dario Saric.
I'm not convinced any players at the top of this draft have superstar potential. Adetokunbo is the only that looks to have insane upside, but he's extremely raw and that kind of comes with that territory. What this draft is weak in is franchise talent, I think that's indisputable at this point in time. Now, there's always surprises and all-stars in every draft, but I think this one is closer to 2000 and 2011 than say 2008.
Yeah, I agree completely! Thats not to say that there won't be some good to very good players come out of this draft. But the word superstar is thrown around a little to loosely to suit my taste. I see a few players that may have star potential, but there's no one that I can say, hey, this is the next Lebron or Kobe. To be honest, I'm not really concerned about finding a superstar. If we luck into one so much the better. But if we can find a solid role player that is complimentry to what we percieve to be our core, then I'm happy. Thats how I look at Porter and Oladipo. Hopefully solid players that help move you one step closer to the playoffs, and eventually contending for a title.
Do I think a superstar will come out of this class? Well the odds say yes, since almost every class has a player that surprises you. If not immediately, then in a couple of years. A couple of drafts ago I thought Chandler Parsons was bottom of the first round material. He ended up going at the top of the 2nd round. Unfortuately we passed on him. But even though I saw him as a nice solid role player off the bench, he's ended up being much better than I thought he would be, and its possible that he'll eventually end up on an all star team in the future. The hardest thing to measure is the heart and desire of a player, and how much they really want it.
The exceptions of course are the overaccheivers. Guys that you can watch in college and see that they go balls out every minute on the floor. Thats why I was so high on Kenneth Faried, even though he played PF and was only 6'7" tall. I sort of put Oladipo in that same catagory, as far as playing hard all the time. Its just hard not to like those guys. In short, I think there's definitely talent in this draft. But I wouldn't go in looking for, as you said, a franchise player.
Do I think a superstar will come out of this class? Well the odds say yes, since almost every class has a player that surprises you. If not immediately, then in a couple of years. A couple of drafts ago I thought Chandler Parsons was bottom of the first round material. He ended up going at the top of the 2nd round. Unfortuately we passed on him. But even though I saw him as a nice solid role player off the bench, he's ended up being much better than I thought he would be, and its possible that he'll eventually end up on an all star team in the future. The hardest thing to measure is the heart and desire of a player, and how much they really want it.
The exceptions of course are the overaccheivers. Guys that you can watch in college and see that they go balls out every minute on the floor. Thats why I was so high on Kenneth Faried, even though he played PF and was only 6'7" tall. I sort of put Oladipo in that same catagory, as far as playing hard all the time. Its just hard not to like those guys. In short, I think there's definitely talent in this draft. But I wouldn't go in looking for, as you said, a franchise player.
Guys like Adetocunbo and Ricky Ledo really intrigue me as sleepers because they're so young and we know so little about them. But everyone who's watched them really likes them. Adetocunbo in particular is being hyped as some 6'10" athletic long PG with two-way ability. If that's the template, man, wow. Sounds very much like Nicolas Batum, at the very least.
I'm not crazy about the upper end of the draft, and really, the only guys I have in the lottery that match up with the consensus with Nerlens Noel, Marcus Smart, Otto Porter, Michael Carter-Williams, Cody Zeller, Ben McLemore, and Trey Burke. I think all of those guys will pan out to different degrees.
Nerlens is a one-way guy, but man, that defense is so great he'll probably stick with the same team for many years and could be a defensive cornerstone. Marcus Smart has great upside and two-way potential.
The others I'm less sure about--Michael Carter-Williams plays in a system that hides defensive weaknesses and Syracuse in general has produced a ton of first round busts in recent years (Wes Johnson, Jonny Flynn, Donte Greene, but let's not forget the super hyped yet undrafted guys like Paul Harris, Terrence Roberts, Demetris Nichols, Darryl Watkins, etc). Having mocked the next two years, I'm pretty sure that Jim Boeheim deliberately scouts out 6'8" small forward/power forward tweeners and PG/SG tweeners knowing that they'd stay longer in school, which gives them less potential--look at the aforementioned Flynn, and now guys like CJ Fair/Jerami Grant on that team. So there's always that factor lurking, which in fact should drop him about 10 spots in this draft just for the Syracuse factor--kind of like the UCLA bump up fudge factor. Moreover, Carter-Williams has a serious inability to hit jumpers, which might mitigate his passing game, but at the same time there's the counterargument the open floor game would also boost is assist power. Jumper's easiest thing to learn in the league. I remember Jose Calderon in Europe was an inconsistent shooter, as well, but somehow is a pure shooter now. Not saying Carter-Williams will do that, because he sure might be a Darius Morris/Shaun Livingston, but who knows.
Ben McLemore strikes me as a Ben Gordon type--BOOM BOOM BOOM first four-five years, then everyone starts saying, he doesn't do too much besides score...where's the passing...and he's slightly undersized. We'll go for the next great young guy. Becomes interchangeable. Comparisons to Jason Richardson also lend to such interchangeability.
I'm not crazy about the upper end of the draft, and really, the only guys I have in the lottery that match up with the consensus with Nerlens Noel, Marcus Smart, Otto Porter, Michael Carter-Williams, Cody Zeller, Ben McLemore, and Trey Burke. I think all of those guys will pan out to different degrees.
Nerlens is a one-way guy, but man, that defense is so great he'll probably stick with the same team for many years and could be a defensive cornerstone. Marcus Smart has great upside and two-way potential.
The others I'm less sure about--Michael Carter-Williams plays in a system that hides defensive weaknesses and Syracuse in general has produced a ton of first round busts in recent years (Wes Johnson, Jonny Flynn, Donte Greene, but let's not forget the super hyped yet undrafted guys like Paul Harris, Terrence Roberts, Demetris Nichols, Darryl Watkins, etc). Having mocked the next two years, I'm pretty sure that Jim Boeheim deliberately scouts out 6'8" small forward/power forward tweeners and PG/SG tweeners knowing that they'd stay longer in school, which gives them less potential--look at the aforementioned Flynn, and now guys like CJ Fair/Jerami Grant on that team. So there's always that factor lurking, which in fact should drop him about 10 spots in this draft just for the Syracuse factor--kind of like the UCLA bump up fudge factor. Moreover, Carter-Williams has a serious inability to hit jumpers, which might mitigate his passing game, but at the same time there's the counterargument the open floor game would also boost is assist power. Jumper's easiest thing to learn in the league. I remember Jose Calderon in Europe was an inconsistent shooter, as well, but somehow is a pure shooter now. Not saying Carter-Williams will do that, because he sure might be a Darius Morris/Shaun Livingston, but who knows.
Ben McLemore strikes me as a Ben Gordon type--BOOM BOOM BOOM first four-five years, then everyone starts saying, he doesn't do too much besides score...where's the passing...and he's slightly undersized. We'll go for the next great young guy. Becomes interchangeable. Comparisons to Jason Richardson also lend to such interchangeability.
I think this draft could have quite a few solid players, and that's a strength, but it's more of a strength for the late lotto to late first round teams, and a disappointment for the teams that have sucked all year and don't get much of a shot at a proportional reward for their suckyness. 2014 is where it's at I think, it may not live up to its huge hype right now, but I don't see it becoming less than the best draft since 2008, with the potential to be the best since 2003.
Look, I'm not saying that they'll all come into the league and dominate. What I am saying is that guys may or may not do that in the future. The talent in this draft is great, but extremely raw, and it will take a lot of developement to reach it's potential.
P.S. 2014 lottery-the ultimate prize. Who bets the Lakers win it after just missing the playoffs?
P.S. 2014 lottery-the ultimate prize. Who bets the Lakers win it after just missing the playoffs?
Lets try and be a little fair to McLemore. He played PF in highschool, so as a result, he didn't develop the right kind of skills necessary to play the SG position. Bearing that in mind, he's come a long way in that regard. Secondly, Ben Gordon measured out at 6'2.25" in shoes at the combine. McLemore measured out at 6'4.50" in shoes at the Jordan Brand classic over a year ago. So he's not that undersized for the SG positon. He's a terrific athlete, and with the right coaching, he has a chance to be a star in the league. The biggest fault I find with him is his lack of aggression at times. And he admits that he has to improve in that area. At one time he was third in all of college in steals and has shown great potential to be a very good defender.
Of course defense in college and defense in the NBA are two different things. But at least he did play man to man defense, unlike Carter-Williams who was hidden in a zone all the time. By no means am I saying we should draft him. As a matter of fact, unless we plan to trade Thonton, or Evans, I'd trade down from that pick for a latter pick and a pick in next years draft. I don't think we need another SG on the team as it stands right now. Now I change my mind when it comes to Oladipo, because if I draft him, I'd move Tyreke over to PG when he comes into the game.
Of course defense in college and defense in the NBA are two different things. But at least he did play man to man defense, unlike Carter-Williams who was hidden in a zone all the time. By no means am I saying we should draft him. As a matter of fact, unless we plan to trade Thonton, or Evans, I'd trade down from that pick for a latter pick and a pick in next years draft. I don't think we need another SG on the team as it stands right now. Now I change my mind when it comes to Oladipo, because if I draft him, I'd move Tyreke over to PG when he comes into the game.
I don't hate McLemore at all--in fact, being in the consensus list of seven means that he should be a top seven player in the draft--but I find the uppity end of the upside less than most players. I mean, there's no doubt that he's a NBA-level scorer--really good shooter and diversifies his shot selection from deep and slashes--and can rebound really well, so that's why I said he's a major boom for the first five-six years. That's the sort of stuff that really helps lottery teams--teams in need of improvement. My concerns about the uppity end of the upside are due to his height: listed height of 6'5" is on the generous side given that he was listed at 6'4" earlier this season, and the passing: yeah, he passes like a power forward and mad props for trying to move a position down, but almost always, passing's the hardest thing to improve with age. Typically scouts love to see players move up positions rather than move down positions. You know, like the guys who grew up as PGs, had growth spurts and retained the ballhandling ability at 6'10" or something. McLemore's on the wrong end of that stick and almost very much passes like a small forward. It's not a huge concern, but if you look at the great shooting guards, almost all of them could pass when it was called for in their heyday: Wade, Bryant, Ray Allen, Sprewell. I kind of put McLemore in the Eric Gordon/J-Rich class--good starter, but an interchangeable starter for the first part of his career. I mean, still a lottery pick, but I'm not seeing enormous upside here.
I find Cody Zeller nothing overly special--good touch for a big man, reasonable ability to draw fouls, tries to active on defense and will get a few steals and blocks. But he isn't really a good rebounder or shotblocker, and an average passer. There's something a bit Tyler Hansbrough about his game, which kind of paints him as an energy guy who tries to mask his limitations with endless energy. I might be underrating him a bit on offense, though, because there looks to be some inside-outside value here. Still, lottery pick.
I find Cody Zeller nothing overly special--good touch for a big man, reasonable ability to draw fouls, tries to active on defense and will get a few steals and blocks. But he isn't really a good rebounder or shotblocker, and an average passer. There's something a bit Tyler Hansbrough about his game, which kind of paints him as an energy guy who tries to mask his limitations with endless energy. I might be underrating him a bit on offense, though, because there looks to be some inside-outside value here. Still, lottery pick.
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Does Porter have the highest BBIQ in this draft? If not, who does?
Assumption: Vivek is the new owner of the Kings and whoever he chooses as GM will be of a like mind.
I've been reading Vivek's book, The Two Second Advantage. It's not often that you can literally get a read on a new owner. Right of the bat, he uses a sports figure as an example of the importance of anticipation - Wayne Gretsky. Gretsky was "BAD" in all of the physical tests, yet arguably is the greatest player ever to play the game. Why? His mind. He had the ability to anticipate a play 1-2 seconds ahead of everybody else. My own opinion: I think Pele with soccer falls into this realm as well; Bird is the guy that comes to mind in basketball. I'm just at the beginning of this book, but I don't think it's a stretch to say that Vivek is going to weigh BBIQ fairly heavily in the evaluation of talent.
Assumption: Vivek is the new owner of the Kings and whoever he chooses as GM will be of a like mind.
I've been reading Vivek's book, The Two Second Advantage. It's not often that you can literally get a read on a new owner. Right of the bat, he uses a sports figure as an example of the importance of anticipation - Wayne Gretsky. Gretsky was "BAD" in all of the physical tests, yet arguably is the greatest player ever to play the game. Why? His mind. He had the ability to anticipate a play 1-2 seconds ahead of everybody else. My own opinion: I think Pele with soccer falls into this realm as well; Bird is the guy that comes to mind in basketball. I'm just at the beginning of this book, but I don't think it's a stretch to say that Vivek is going to weigh BBIQ fairly heavily in the evaluation of talent.
Well as I said, McLemore's measurements from the Jordan Brand Classic, which has proven to be very accurate, list him at 6'4.50" in shoes. So you could average his height out at either 6'4" or 6'5", depending on your personal taste. But either way, he has the prototypical height for a SG. Not really a concern for me. My biggest concern with McLemore aside from his aggressivness, is his ballhandling, which isn't terrible, but he's not capable of breaking anyone's ankles at the moment. One NBA scout commented, that his ball handling is better than Ray Allens at the same stage of thier careers. Mitch Richmond, was a terrible passer, and I'd take him on my team anytime anywhere. Now from my point of view, I'm not looking for a superstar. If McLemore ends up being a very good 15 pt, 5 rebound a night guy, and plays excellent defense, I'm happy. I think he can be more than that, but as Lawrence of Arabia said, nothing is written.
On Zeller, we agree. He's a player that I could end up being very wrong on, because he just does nothing for me. I think he's one of the most overhyped players in the draft. In particular, his 6'7" wingspan along with his 6'11" height, doesn't impress me at all, and is largely responsible for why he doesn't rebound that well or block shots when he's opposed by a player as big, or bigger than he is. Which will happen on a nightly basis in the NBA. If we end up drafting him, and I do think he'll slide, I certainly hope I'm wrong about him.
On Zeller, we agree. He's a player that I could end up being very wrong on, because he just does nothing for me. I think he's one of the most overhyped players in the draft. In particular, his 6'7" wingspan along with his 6'11" height, doesn't impress me at all, and is largely responsible for why he doesn't rebound that well or block shots when he's opposed by a player as big, or bigger than he is. Which will happen on a nightly basis in the NBA. If we end up drafting him, and I do think he'll slide, I certainly hope I'm wrong about him.
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I was really impressed with Zeller last season. Indiana plays a tough schedule and he went toe to toe with the best competition in the NCAA and sometimes looked like the best player on the floor. Unfortunately he seems to have regressed this season. His inability to score against Syracuse in particular was a red flag because that team has a lot of athletes who use their size and strength well but they're not NBA level or anything. It's only going to get tougher for him. He does run the floor well for a big man and he's active on both ends but like Bajaden said, his size limitations are pretty significant and he doesn't have the explosive leaping ability to compensate.
McLemore had a weak tournament showing, but let's not forget why he was rated so highly in the first place. This is a guy with good size for a SG, who can play above the rim, and he's got probably the purest jumpshot of anyone in the draft this year. Even with a late season slump his shooting percentages from everywhere are elite. He's not a playmaker and his handle needs work, which calls into question his go-to scorer credentials, but I don't think it makes him any less valuable. There's some kind of perception that a top 5 pick should be able to take over games on their own but I think a Ray Allen type of scorer who can space the floor and knock down shots within the offense is extremely valuable. Especially for a team which already has a play maker in place like we do. Even if you're one of the fans who think Evans can only play the SG position, you still have to consider McLemore if he's on the board because he already has an NBA skill (shooting) and he's got the athleticism, size, and length to grow into being an All Star down the line.
McLemore had a weak tournament showing, but let's not forget why he was rated so highly in the first place. This is a guy with good size for a SG, who can play above the rim, and he's got probably the purest jumpshot of anyone in the draft this year. Even with a late season slump his shooting percentages from everywhere are elite. He's not a playmaker and his handle needs work, which calls into question his go-to scorer credentials, but I don't think it makes him any less valuable. There's some kind of perception that a top 5 pick should be able to take over games on their own but I think a Ray Allen type of scorer who can space the floor and knock down shots within the offense is extremely valuable. Especially for a team which already has a play maker in place like we do. Even if you're one of the fans who think Evans can only play the SG position, you still have to consider McLemore if he's on the board because he already has an NBA skill (shooting) and he's got the athleticism, size, and length to grow into being an All Star down the line.
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