2013 Draft Prospects

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#61
Fair's trying to move down a position. He's only started to expand his range, and he's still a very infrequent three point shooter at this stage, and his handles are more in line with PFs. I still maintain he's a smallball PF in this league, sort of like the Hakim Warricks that litter the league. But again, I haven't seen too much of him, and I think when his college chapter comes to a close we'll see him as a 2nd round pick at best.

Anyone really think the real NBA prospect in Duke for this year is Ryan Kelly? I was a huge fan last year, and this year he's sort of squeezed, but the talent still shines through. He's 6'11" and has the ball skills of a small forward, can shoot the ball, and has some shotblocking ability. I wonder if he could be a 6'11" small forward in this league because he's not a good rebounder as well. Maybe sort of like a Chandler Parsons type. In fact, I have him 19th in my board. I think he's way better than the other Dukie, Mason Plumlee (#35th). I wasn't high on him last year, I'm still not high on him this year. Don't think he has enough dimensions to sustain what he's doing in the NBA. Anyone else think this way?

Also love Nate Wolters' game in South Dakota State. Then again, I was high on Ben Hansbrough last year, so take this love for senior PGs from small schools with a grain of salt. But Wolters I believe is a first round pick (#27th) and can be a real sleeper in this.

Others: Pierre Jackson, the 5'10" athletic PG out of Baylor, ranks higher with me (#34th) than most mocks. Also the same with Mike Muscala (#31st).
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#62
I'am sort of amazed that you would think Ryan Kelly could play SF in the NBA, but that Fair couldn't. I agree that Fair is taking more 3's this season than last, but the reason is that he worked very hard on that shot in the offseason, and its paid off. Fair has the body, height, and quickness of a SF. His ballhandling still needs a little work, but its as good as,if not better than Garcia's when he came in from Louisville. Fair has no post game to speak of, and has always been a slasher, and alley opp scorer. This year, his jumpshot has been falling very consistently.

I like Ryan Kelly, but his game looks good within the Duke system. I'm just not sure how well it would stand alone in the NBA. I don't think he's quick enough to guard SF's in the NBA, but I can see him at PF where he could help spread the floor. He's a very good shooter. I will admit that I have a bias agains 6'11"/7' players that stand out there and shoot 3's. I've never been a fan of the Plumlee's, but I have to give credit where credits due. Mason Plumlee has been playing lights out all season. For me to be critical of him, I have to come up with something other, than I just don't like him. He's scoring, rebounding, and blocking shots. He's a much better athlete than people give him credit for. Right now, there's simply not much to be critical of. My biggest reservation about him, and others as well, is that I'm always a little scared of Duke and Syracuse players.

Both those teams have a system that showcases the pluses and hides the negatives. Sheldon Williams anyone? I had Chandler Parsons going in the bottom half of the first round, and if the draft were done over, thats probably where he'd get drafted, if not higher. We made a mistake not taking him with our second round pick. For those that forgot, we took Honeycutt instead. I can't get excited over Jackson. But then I'm not too excited over many of the PG's this year. I predict that Muscala will end up being picked in the first round when its said and done. The kid can play, and he's highly skilled
 
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#63
Thanks for the response.

First of all, I don't think the term "smallball PF" is too bad a thing anymore. Many teams (including our own Keith Smart and his brand of Travis Outlaw small ball) love mixing and matching their lineups over the course of the game. But of course there's a difference between whether someone's just a tweener, or whether they're a matchup nightmare. Outlaw's a tweener. And I really think Fair's a tweener. I know he's expanding his range and improving his ballhandling, but he's now a junior and 21, and there are many athletic PFs that also try to do the same in their third years in college. It's just the way to go if you have NBA aspirations. But, we can agree to disagree. FYI, I also thought Harrison Barnes, Moe Harkless and Quincy Miller in last year's draft operated best as smallball PFs as well, but of the three, I only thought that Quincy Miller could be a matchup nightmare. GSW's using Barnes as their starting SF but he's just been OK so far for someone who's getting that many minutes.

As for the Garcia comparisons, Garcia actually could handle the ball like NBA shooting guards. He wasn't a point guard, mind you, but compared to Fair, it's well better. As a shooter he was somewhat overrated, but he was trigger happy and if I recall back then, he even drew now laughable comparisons to Reggie Miller. So he looked like a guy who could play both wing positions back then. As for Honeycutt, I was very high on him and thought we had a steal (I had him as a late lotto pick, believe it or not), and while he's not a PG at all, he looks the part of the NBA small forward and can rebound very well and be disruptive with steals and blocks on defense. We might not have a need with him with our swiss defensive knife in James Johnson, but there's NBA value with what Honeycutt does in defense. We just need to emphasize that part of his game more.

Plumlee is big for a NBA power forward and can really rebound and make defensive plays, but there's nothing that really stands out for the NBA game offensively, in terms of shooting ability, elusiveness or ballhandling. Also, he'll be 23 soon, so while we can praise his improvement, we also have to wonder--is he just beating up on inexperienced guys? There's a place for guys like Plumlee who are 6'11" and can board and make a few defensive plays, but I have him in the first round bubble (I know, VERY unpopular opinion) but that's where I think he's at. I like Ryan Kelly's height+range+ballhandling+defensive playmaking combination a lot more. Having more dimensions=more NBA upside. But again, opinion and stuff.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#64
Thanks for the response.

First of all, I don't think the term "smallball PF" is too bad a thing anymore. Many teams (including our own Keith Smart and his brand of Travis Outlaw small ball) love mixing and matching their lineups over the course of the game. But of course there's a difference between whether someone's just a tweener, or whether they're a matchup nightmare. Outlaw's a tweener. And I really think Fair's a tweener. I know he's expanding his range and improving his ballhandling, but he's now a junior and 21, and there are many athletic PFs that also try to do the same in their third years in college. It's just the way to go if you have NBA aspirations. But, we can agree to disagree. FYI, I also thought Harrison Barnes, Moe Harkless and Quincy Miller in last year's draft operated best as smallball PFs as well, but of the three, I only thought that Quincy Miller could be a matchup nightmare. GSW's using Barnes as their starting SF but he's just been OK so far for someone who's getting that many minutes.

As for the Garcia comparisons, Garcia actually could handle the ball like NBA shooting guards. He wasn't a point guard, mind you, but compared to Fair, it's well better. As a shooter he was somewhat overrated, but he was trigger happy and if I recall back then, he even drew now laughable comparisons to Reggie Miller. So he looked like a guy who could play both wing positions back then. As for Honeycutt, I was very high on him and thought we had a steal (I had him as a late lotto pick, believe it or not), and while he's not a PG at all, he looks the part of the NBA small forward and can rebound very well and be disruptive with steals and blocks on defense. We might not have a need with him with our swiss defensive knife in James Johnson, but there's NBA value with what Honeycutt does in defense. We just need to emphasize that part of his game more.

Plumlee is big for a NBA power forward and can really rebound and make defensive plays, but there's nothing that really stands out for the NBA game offensively, in terms of shooting ability, elusiveness or ballhandling. Also, he'll be 23 soon, so while we can praise his improvement, we also have to wonder--is he just beating up on inexperienced guys? There's a place for guys like Plumlee who are 6'11" and can board and make a few defensive plays, but I have him in the first round bubble (I know, VERY unpopular opinion) but that's where I think he's at. I like Ryan Kelly's height+range+ballhandling+defensive playmaking combination a lot more. Having more dimensions=more NBA upside. But again, opinion and stuff.
Nice post! I watched Garcia quite a bit when he was at Louisville. I wasn't watching for him but for others on the team, but as a result, I got to see him play a lot. Similiar to Kentucky last year. I know there were those that made ridiculous comparisons, but I wasn't one of them. I had his ballhandling down as one of the things he needed to improve, and that he really needed to work on making his shot consistent. He's was a very erratic shooter in college. He could catch fire in one game and look like a world beater, and then go 1 for 9 in the next game. I thought where we drafted him was OK, but he wasn't at the top of my list. I didn't hate him, but I wasn't in love with him either. The one thing I did love about him was his fiiery personality on the floor.

I think maybe we approach how we look at prospects differently. I try and project in my mind what I think the player can be, without totally disregarding what he is at the moment. In Fair's case, I've watched him since he was a freshman. When he started at Syracuse he was nothing more than a skinny athletic player. Since then, he has slowly added little pieces to his game, bit by bit until he's who he is today, which is quite an improvement over what he was when he was a freshman. He's improved his game every year, and thats what I look for. A lot of athletic players don't improve much in two or three years of college.

I can honestly say that I've never looked at him as a PF, or even a stretch forward. But I'm not saying he couldn't be one, and as you say, if your really good, there's nothing wrong with that. What I find interesting, is that the players were talking about, Fair, Plumlee, and Kelly, are all from the two schools that I get nervous about, Duke and Syracuse. For reasons I explained earlier. For that reason, I'm always a little gunshy about players that come from those schools. Yeah I know, some great players have come out of Duke, but some real stinkers have as well. Ditto Syracuse.

I have nothing against Honeycutt. I actually thought he might be there for our second round pick. I didn't think Parsons would. I saw Parsons play a lot more than Honeycutt, so I had a real good read on him. He's more athletic than people realized, and he's very skilled. But if you watched Florida play, he never seemed to stand out that much. He just sort of went with the flow of the game. But at the end of the game, he had 18 points, 9 boards, a couple of steals and 3 or more assists. He was a perfect complimentry player. So I had him ranked higher than Honeycutt. But I wasn't disappointed with our choice of Honeycutt. Its just that if it had been me, and I had the choice between the two, I would have taken Parsons.

Another guy I wanted when he came out, and I had ranked higher than most draft boards was Grevis Vasquez, who is now playing outstanding basketball. I always looked at him as a Doug Christie type. A player that could play SG, but pass the ball like a PG. Of course he's not as athletic as Christie, but he plays with a fire in his belly that I like. I don't know if you saw the last Kansas game where McLemore went off for 33 points, but he was impressive in that game. As was Withey with 9 blocks. Withey has improved his offensive game this year. He'll never be an offensive go to guy, but I think he can do enough to not be a hole on offense.
 
#65
Yeah, I understand that reasoning of watching players develop through college is very popular. And for some players, it works. Deron Williams, Brandon Roy, Paul Millsap, and David Lee IMO all played far better in the NBA than they did in college. For many of these players, I was thrown into a curveball: Roy didn't take many threes in college at all, didn't shoot free throws as well, and didn't pass as well. I thought he was a NBA SG. Then all of a sudden, he can play PG in a pinch, hits free throws consistently at a 80% clip, and maintained consistency into NBA three point range. That really, really opened up his game. Deron didn't score that much in college, arguably regressed from his sophomore to junior year in Illinois, for whatever reason was a poor free throw shooter. All we knew was that he was an excellent passer. Then, he draws fouls and hits free throws better in the NBA, opening up his scoring while maintaining his passing game. Paul Millsap looked like a 6'8" center out of college, with center like ballhandling and questionable free throw shooting. He really, really improved his jumper and passing ability in the NBA and became a force of a PF when combined with his always-present elite rebounding and defensive playmaking. David Lee was a special case--whereas most guys fail to maintain their college-level production to the NBA, Lee brought it right with him, arguably even improving his rebounding numbers, and definitely improving his free throw shooting.

And then there are the lotto busts--Melvin Ely. Wes Johnson. Hilton Armstrong. Cedric Simmons. Adam Morrison. Jonny Flynn. I won't go into the boring, mind-numbing details of the red flags and what I thought would translate, never translated to the league--but I was never high on any of these players, for many of the same reasons I've used in evaluating this season's current crop of NBA prospects. Did they look at PG/SG, SF/PF, PF/C tweeners in college? Were they diverse enough in their scoring techniques? How was their shooting? Did they impose their athleticism (rebounding/defensive playmaking) on their court? If they had a huge jump, did their current season look like "the fluke"? These are all questions every scout has to consider for themselves. There were reasons I thought our own Jimmer Fredette (22nd) and Thomas Robinson (26th) were overdrafted, and while Jimmer's eased his way into a shooting role, the consensus in the NBAsphere is that both were overdrafted. Adam Morrison was the scoring king, and I had him as a late 1st rounder. Sure, there's misses like with your Millsaps, Roys, Lees, and the ones that we need to account a UCLA/Florida fudge factor for (Jruth, Westbrook, Afflalo, Haslem, Parsons and David Lee) but for the most part, the analysis tends to be correct. Let's face it--every draft will have busts. There needs to be a means to cut through the clutter.

This year, I really think Isaiah Austin and James McAdoo need another year. Everyone thinks Shabazz is the next Kobe, but Kobe passed way better than that and had far greater reflexes on defense. I know he's shooting very well and will be drafted high, it's just that I'd like to see a lot more dimensions to his game. I don't want to say Shabazz is a me-first player, because at this point he's looking like a DeMar DeRozan/Gerald Green hybrid rather than a Kobe Bryant. I know, unpopular, but if I were a GM I'd be concerned about building a team around him, and I think he could use another year in college to fine-tune those areas. Alex Poythress just appears to be a major tweener to me. He isn't very disruptive on defense, has few ball skills and the jumper's a work in progress. There are a few others in this draft who are dubbed lottery picks who have similar red flags.
 
#66
Yeah, I understand that reasoning of watching players develop through college is very popular. And for some players, it works. Deron Williams, Brandon Roy, Paul Millsap, and David Lee IMO all played far better in the NBA than they did in college. For many of these players, I was thrown into a curveball: Roy didn't take many threes in college at all, didn't shoot free throws as well, and didn't pass as well. I thought he was a NBA SG. Then all of a sudden, he can play PG in a pinch, hits free throws consistently at a 80% clip, and maintained consistency into NBA three point range. That really, really opened up his game. Deron didn't score that much in college, arguably regressed from his sophomore to junior year in Illinois, for whatever reason was a poor free throw shooter. All we knew was that he was an excellent passer. Then, he draws fouls and hits free throws better in the NBA, opening up his scoring while maintaining his passing game...
IF I recall correctly Roy played with two mini-chuckers who were called PGs because they weren't big enough. If you watch Kings, you see similar player to Roy in similar situation. At least, good coaching might be on the way in this summer.

This year, I really think Isaiah Austin and James McAdoo need another year. Everyone thinks Shabazz is the next Kobe, but Kobe passed way better than that and had far greater reflexes on defense. I know he's shooting very well and will be drafted high, it's just that I'd like to see a lot more dimensions to his game. I don't want to say Shabazz is a me-first player, because at this point he's looking like a DeMar DeRozan/Gerald Green hybrid rather than a Kobe Bryant. I know, unpopular, but if I were a GM I'd be concerned about building a team around him, and I think he could use another year in college to fine-tune those areas. Alex Poythress just appears to be a major tweener to me. He isn't very disruptive on defense, has few ball skills and the jumper's a work in progress. There are a few others in this draft who are dubbed lottery picks who have similar red flags.
Actually Shabazz is ridiculous scorer and good rebounder. But he's not a playmaker, though he also doesn't monopolize the ball at all. I would say he's much closer to Mclemore than Goodwin.
P.S. Porter, Releford and Bullock all had good games. Hope at least one of them wears Kings uni next year.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#67
Yeah, I understand that reasoning of watching players develop through college is very popular. And for some players, it works. Deron Williams, Brandon Roy, Paul Millsap, and David Lee IMO all played far better in the NBA than they did in college. For many of these players, I was thrown into a curveball: Roy didn't take many threes in college at all, didn't shoot free throws as well, and didn't pass as well. I thought he was a NBA SG. Then all of a sudden, he can play PG in a pinch, hits free throws consistently at a 80% clip, and maintained consistency into NBA three point range. That really, really opened up his game. Deron didn't score that much in college, arguably regressed from his sophomore to junior year in Illinois, for whatever reason was a poor free throw shooter. All we knew was that he was an excellent passer. Then, he draws fouls and hits free throws better in the NBA, opening up his scoring while maintaining his passing game. Paul Millsap looked like a 6'8" center out of college, with center like ballhandling and questionable free throw shooting. He really, really improved his jumper and passing ability in the NBA and became a force of a PF when combined with his always-present elite rebounding and defensive playmaking. David Lee was a special case--whereas most guys fail to maintain their college-level production to the NBA, Lee brought it right with him, arguably even improving his rebounding numbers, and definitely improving his free throw shooting.

And then there are the lotto busts--Melvin Ely. Wes Johnson. Hilton Armstrong. Cedric Simmons. Adam Morrison. Jonny Flynn. I won't go into the boring, mind-numbing details of the red flags and what I thought would translate, never translated to the league--but I was never high on any of these players, for many of the same reasons I've used in evaluating this season's current crop of NBA prospects. Did they look at PG/SG, SF/PF, PF/C tweeners in college? Were they diverse enough in their scoring techniques? How was their shooting? Did they impose their athleticism (rebounding/defensive playmaking) on their court? If they had a huge jump, did their current season look like "the fluke"? These are all questions every scout has to consider for themselves. There were reasons I thought our own Jimmer Fredette (22nd) and Thomas Robinson (26th) were overdrafted, and while Jimmer's eased his way into a shooting role, the consensus in the NBAsphere is that both were overdrafted. Adam Morrison was the scoring king, and I had him as a late 1st rounder. Sure, there's misses like with your Millsaps, Roys, Lees, and the ones that we need to account a UCLA/Florida fudge factor for (Jruth, Westbrook, Afflalo, Haslem, Parsons and David Lee) but for the most part, the analysis tends to be correct. Let's face it--every draft will have busts. There needs to be a means to cut through the clutter.

This year, I really think Isaiah Austin and James McAdoo need another year. Everyone thinks Shabazz is the next Kobe, but Kobe passed way better than that and had far greater reflexes on defense. I know he's shooting very well and will be drafted high, it's just that I'd like to see a lot more dimensions to his game. I don't want to say Shabazz is a me-first player, because at this point he's looking like a DeMar DeRozan/Gerald Green hybrid rather than a Kobe Bryant. I know, unpopular, but if I were a GM I'd be concerned about building a team around him, and I think he could use another year in college to fine-tune those areas. Alex Poythress just appears to be a major tweener to me. He isn't very disruptive on defense, has few ball skills and the jumper's a work in progress. There are a few others in this draft who are dubbed lottery picks who have similar red flags.
I'll start at the bottom and work my way up. At the moment, I'm not a big fan of Austin's. Having said that, he's actually putting up pretty good numbers, and rebounds pretty well for playing away from the basket as much as he does. My first instinct is to say that he needs to add muscle, and that at his current body weight and strength, he'll get pushed around too much in the post. At the same time, especially when he puts on those goggles, he'll make a move that reminds me of Kareem Abdull-Jabbar. So I know I have to be careful with him. He could be an easy one to miss on.

I have to tell you, I think your way off base on Poythress. I watched him play in highschool, and he's a very, very tallented player. He may end up being the best player on the Kentucky team down the road. His worse enemy is himself. I think he's trying too hard to just fit in, and therefore isn't aggressive enough. He has a very good jumpshot, and handles the ball very well. He's definitely a SF in the NBA if your going to go to his strength. I also think you have to take into consideration who the head coach of any team is when evaluating players. For instance, Calapari is the type of coach that gives his players a precise role to play, and if they venture out of the role, their watching the game from the bench. For example, most people had no idea that Cousins had such a nice jumpshot. Thats because if the ventured out of the post, he was on the bench.

As for Muhammad, I'm not sure how in the world you can compare him with Kobe. Kobe never played college ball, and in his first two years with the Lakers, his minutes were very limited, and he never broke into the starting lineup. What Kobe had going for him was his father was an ex-NBA player, and that he was a very good highschool player, who was also a great athlete. With Muhammad your getting to see what you never got a chance to see with Kobe, a player considered the best highschool player in the nation, playing college basketball at a major school. Even though I hate Howland as a coach (Mickey Mouse could coach this team and win), at least he's letting Shabazz showcase his talent. To be honest, at this stage of Muhammad's career, I'm not sure whats not to like. I'm certainly not going to predict that he's the next Jordan or Kobe, but I will predict he's going to be a very very good NBA player down the road.

As for myself, if I watch a player play 2 or 3 times, I don't feel as though I really have a good idea of how good he's going to be. I might catch him on all his good nights, or perhaps all his off days. So from my prespective, I love it when a player stays in college for 2 or 3 years. By then I have a pretty good idea of how his talent will translate to the NBA. Jeffery Taylor is an example. There simply isn't much I don't know about Talyor. I've probably seen him play at least 50 times over a three year period. During that period I watched him improve and grow as a player. He still does his disappearing act from time to time, but all in all, he always shows up defensively, and when he's hot, he can score points in a hurry. I always wanted him to grow longer arms.

I try to not be influenced by draft boards and their opinion, and I try and not let stats influence me. Nothing beats what you see with your own eyes. Stats can be the result of how your used by your coach and the style of basketball he implements. I remember watching Kevin Johnson at Cal, and how restricted he was in what he could do. But every once in a while, he would just break out and do what he could do, and you'd say, WOW, where did that come from. Problem was, if you didn't watch a lot of Cal's games, you probably never saw that, and you drafted Kenny Smith instead. I sat there screaming at my TV for the Kings to draft Johnson. Same thing with Karl Malone. He wasn't the Karl Malone everybody thinks of today. He didn't even look like the Karl Malone we all remember. But if you watched him play a lot, you just knew he was going to be special. Just think, we could have had Kevin Johnson and Karl Malone on the Kings, and history would have been rewritten. Instead we had Kenny Smith and Joe Klein.

I will admit that its not an exact science. I believe that the more you watch a player, the more you limit the chances of being wrong. You have to see his bad days along with his good days, and how he reacts when he's having a day when nothing is going right. One of the reasons I never got on a "WE have to draft Lillard" bandwagon, is that I just never got to see him play enough, and the games I did see, were against lesser competition. By no means did disregard what I saw, its just that it wasn't conclusive. I will admit that I was impressed more by his demeanor on the court than I was his skill level. He never appeared rattled or out of sorts. Whats that saying about if you can keep your head when all around you are losing theirs! So I guess I can say that I missed on Lillard, who will probably be ROY, and who will become the next great PG in the league.
 
#68
Our biggest position of need has actually been SF. I'm sort of disappointed in Keith Smart's decision to re-discover John Salmons and Francisco Garcia's games, well, because both aren't veterans of the traditional sense (i.e. one that have experienced "winning" teams to nurture our young) and they're on the older side. I kind of like James Johnson at SF, but there's a school of thought that he's better as PF, so it can go either way. Anyway, having drafted a PG (Thomas), SG (Evans), PF (Robinson and Thompson) and C (Cousins), we're in line to draft to get a SF.

So yeah, Otto Porter. Huge fan. Good rebounder and excellent defensive playmaker. Excellent passer. I'm sort of doubting the shooting right now, but he has a great foundation of a player who can easily complement a bunch of scorers around him. And if we're sticking with the Reke-Cuz and everyone else nucleus, that's what we need.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#69
IF I recall correctly Roy played with two mini-chuckers who were called PGs because they weren't big enough. If you watch Kings, you see similar player to Roy in similar situation. At least, good coaching might be on the way in this summer.

Actually Shabazz is ridiculous scorer and good rebounder. But he's not a playmaker, though he also doesn't monopolize the ball at all. I would say he's much closer to Mclemore than Goodwin.
P.S. Porter, Releford and Bullock all had good games. Hope at least one of them wears Kings uni next year.
I agree with you 100%. Your right about Roy, who I really liked coming out of college, and apparently I wasn't alone, most of the scouts liked him as well. I wish I had a nickel for every pint sized PG that did nothing to enhance the careers of their teammates. Ask Derrick Favors about it. I've said it many times, but in college, you seldom see a team in the final 8, or even the sweet 16, that doesn't have good guard play. And by good guard play, I mean guards that share the ball and create for their teammates. You will get exceptions like Napier at UCONN, but for the most part, they're players like Andy Routins, Kendall Marshall, Peyton Silva, and Aaron Craft.

Shabazz is definitely closer to McLemore than Goodwin. Both McLemore and Shabazz can shoot the ball with consistency. Goodwin is extremely erratic with his outside shot, and relies more on slashing to the basket. Goodwin may be the best ballhandler of the three, but thats about where it ends. All three are very good athletes, with Shabazz being the most skilled overall. I like all three of Porter, Releford and Bullock. If I had to choose between the three, I'd take Otto Porter. First, its a position of need for us, and secondly, I think he may be the most skilled of the three. At the same time, the other two are probably better athletes than Porter is. But Porter, with his skill level and his BBIQ would be a wonderful pickup for the Kings.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#70
Just to emphasize what I was talking about with watching a player for a number of years, Roy is a perfect example. Oddly, there's a school of thought out there now that if you draft a senior, what you see is what you get. Not sure where that idea came from, but up until several years ago, all newcomers were seniors, and some of them improved greatly after arriving. What happens now too many times with young players, is that you draft them, and they struggle for a few years. You let them go, or trade them, and then they blossom on another team. Michael Jordan, Jabbar, Bird etc. were all seniors, and I think you can safely say they all had upside remaining.

But lets look at Roy and his 4 years at Washington.

Freshman: 17 MPG - 6.1 PPG - 50% FGP - 10% 3PP - 2.9 Rebounds - 1.0 Assists
Sophmore: 30.3 MPG - 12.9 PPG - 48% FGP - 22% 3PP - 5.3 Rebounds - 3.3 Assists
Junior: 24.2 MPG - 12.8 PPG - 56% FGP - 35% 3PP - 5.0 Rebounds - 2.2 Assists
Senior: 31.9 MPG - 20.2 PPG - 50.8% FGP - 40.2% 3PP - 5.6 Rebounds - 4.1 Assists

Now you could look at Roy's senior year, and say that his 3 pt shooting might be an abberation. That he was a one year wonder. But if you look at the entire 4 years, you can see the progression. He improved every single year. Even though his total points didn't go up in his junior year from his sophmore year, he did it with less minutes, and a more efficient shooting percentage. If you watched him all four years, you could see that he was starting to put it all together in his senior year, and that he was probably only going to get better. Why the better assist total his senior year? He handled the ball more and took on more responsibiltiy for running the team.

So, having said all that, let me ask you this. How good do you think McLemore would be if he stayed in college all 4 years? Looking at what he's capable of right now, and what he has to build on, what kind of player would he be by his senior year of college. As good as or better than Roy? Different kind of players, I know, but I think you see what I mean. Considering who his coach is, I think he would be one hell of a player. And McLemore was just a random pick. You could apply the same thing to Noel or Muhammad etc. Sometimes I think we expect too much out of these freshmen. Remember, Kobe didn't tear up the NBA when he arrived. It took him a couple of years.
 
#71
Thanks for the response.

Gilles is right--Roy I believe was playing next to Nate Robinson/Bobby Jones, and three years into college he was still coming off the bench (I believe he was Wash's sixth man even in his junior year). He just didn't get the opportunity until his senior year. But then, one could argue Thomas Robinson was similar. Playing behind the Morris twinsies he wasn't able to really shine until his junior year. This even applies to freshmen--Eric Bledsoe squeezed behind John Wall, wasn't overly significant at Kentucky, then beasts for the Clippers on defense. Then on the flip side you had Daniel Orton playing behind DeMarcus Cousins, and Orton had good impact in his limited minutes, but where's he now? That's why I say, it's sort of tough. I think what it boils down to is killer instinct, and how much you want it. When Roy and D-Will came into the league, man, those guys really, really wanted it. Badly. Tough as nails. That's what sends scouts moving guys from the second round to the first. If I recall, Roy and Williams spent the lifeblood of their NCAA careers as mid to late 1st round picks. Both rapidly ascended the ladder--particularly Williams--via workouts. And that's where scouts probably noticed the killer instinct.

Baja, I get your point about the steady progression, and it's true--but there's that argument scouts always make about seniors. I speak from an engineering perspective, where due to competition, you want to prolong your stay in school and go to graduate school and get your M.S. or PhD. I certainly am. For the NBA, it operates differently. I guess if you're "squeezed' the way Roy or TRob were, you had no choice, but the longer you stay in school, there's that argument you're just beating up on inexperienced players. And you're getting older--therefore you have less "potential". Look at all the draft boards over the years--the top half is almost always freshmen and sophomores, and then come your juniors, and then at least 3/4ths of the second round are cluttered with seniors. That's how scouts always think. I'm guilty of subscribing of that way of thinking too--I love younger players. Better investments, especially if they meet all the requirements I've mentioned in the other post. It's almost always the way to bet.

I know it's a "different shakes for different bakes" type of argument, but I can see our disconnect with Shabazz immediately, and my disconnect with the consensus (scouts also love him). I just wonder if his game is winner material. He's amazingly built for a freshman and scores at will, but my philosophy is that scoring is one of the easiest things to do in the league. There's a bunch of scoring-minded undersized types who toil in Europe who never make it to the league. I guess we'll find out more as the season goes on, but one of the things I'm personally looking for is: will Shabazz get his teammates more involved? Will he maintain his shooting numbers? Will he make a greater mark on defense? If the answer is affirmative on all three, I'll be swayed. I'm not saying he's bad. I'm just wondering if he's a glorified DeRozan, or more than that. And I'm not a fan of DeRozan, hence my dislike. But again, agree to disagree. I'm curious to see how he'll look in the NBA, that's for certain.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#72
Thanks for the response.

Gilles is right--Roy I believe was playing next to Nate Robinson/Bobby Jones, and three years into college he was still coming off the bench (I believe he was Wash's sixth man even in his junior year). He just didn't get the opportunity until his senior year. But then, one could argue Thomas Robinson was similar. Playing behind the Morris twinsies he wasn't able to really shine until his junior year. This even applies to freshmen--Eric Bledsoe squeezed behind John Wall, wasn't overly significant at Kentucky, then beasts for the Clippers on defense. Then on the flip side you had Daniel Orton playing behind DeMarcus Cousins, and Orton had good impact in his limited minutes, but where's he now? That's why I say, it's sort of tough. I think what it boils down to is killer instinct, and how much you want it. When Roy and D-Will came into the league, man, those guys really, really wanted it. Badly. Tough as nails. That's what sends scouts moving guys from the second round to the first. If I recall, Roy and Williams spent the lifeblood of their NCAA careers as mid to late 1st round picks. Both rapidly ascended the ladder--particularly Williams--via workouts. And that's where scouts probably noticed the killer instinct.

Baja, I get your point about the steady progression, and it's true--but there's that argument scouts always make about seniors. I speak from an engineering perspective, where due to competition, you want to prolong your stay in school and go to graduate school and get your M.S. or PhD. I certainly am. For the NBA, it operates differently. I guess if you're "squeezed' the way Roy or TRob were, you had no choice, but the longer you stay in school, there's that argument you're just beating up on inexperienced players. And you're getting older--therefore you have less "potential". Look at all the draft boards over the years--the top half is almost always freshmen and sophomores, and then come your juniors, and then at least 3/4ths of the second round are cluttered with seniors. That's how scouts always think. I'm guilty of subscribing of that way of thinking too--I love younger players. Better investments, especially if they meet all the requirements I've mentioned in the other post. It's almost always the way to bet.

I know it's a "different shakes for different bakes" type of argument, but I can see our disconnect with Shabazz immediately, and my disconnect with the consensus (scouts also love him). I just wonder if his game is winner material. He's amazingly built for a freshman and scores at will, but my philosophy is that scoring is one of the easiest things to do in the league. There's a bunch of scoring-minded undersized types who toil in Europe who never make it to the league. I guess we'll find out more as the season goes on, but one of the things I'm personally looking for is: will Shabazz get his teammates more involved? Will he maintain his shooting numbers? Will he make a greater mark on defense? If the answer is affirmative on all three, I'll be swayed. I'm not saying he's bad. I'm just wondering if he's a glorified DeRozan, or more than that. And I'm not a fan of DeRozan, hence my dislike. But again, agree to disagree. I'm curious to see how he'll look in the NBA, that's for certain.
For what its worth, I wasn't a fan of DeRozan either, and I'm still not. As for a lot of the top picks being freshmen, and the later part of the draft being littered with juniors and seniors, well, one begets the other. Since the top highschool players are now eligible after one year, everyone wants to grab them before someone else does. As a result, in general, the best players don't move on to become juniors and seniors. Before, when they had to stay in school for 4 years, obviously the best players were seniors. I actually perfer the old system from a selfish point of view. You were making an investment, especially with the top players in the draft, that you had more confidence in. Instead of you drafting a 19 year old kid, and then paying him 4 or 5 million dollars a year while he learned how to play the game, he learned in college, and it wasn't costing the team a dime. When you finally got him he was more ready to contribute on a regular basis.

Of course there are exceptions to every rule. There are always going to be busts. But no one had any doubts about Tim Duncan or Michael Jordan when they came out of college. No one may have known they would be as good as they turned out, but you knew you had a good player. Right now, you have players coming out of college that still don't know how to play the game. When you get one of those, he's not a good investment. How good an investment is a player that your paying 2 mil a year on a rookie contract that spends most of the year either riding the bench, or down in the D-League. There are a bunch of them doing that this year, and its nice to have a D-League to send them to. But hey, its the system we have right now, so we have to live with it.
 
#73
Haven't gotten to see a huge amount of games, but two guys that I really like so far are Marcus Smart and Michael Carter-Williams. I'm really intrigued by both and think they could end up being star PGs - not that they will be big scorers, but the fact that they bring so much to the table and have potential to be beastly defensively. Actually, the fact that they don't demand a lot of shots makes them a better fit here. I'll be keeping a close eye on them as the season goes on. Smart is just intense, a very physical PG that does everything. He's more likely to be a typical "star" than Carter-Williams in the truest sense of the word. He needs to work on his shot. Carter-Williams is just so interesting to me because he's huge for a PG at 6'5''. He's a pretty bad shooter but everything else he does very well. He rebounds, he passes extremely well (as his 9+ assists per game indicates) and he plays very good defense. He reminds me a little of a bigger Rondo.
 
#75
I don't think he looks "really small." I wouldn't even say he looks small. He's barely shorter than Davis (and no, I'm not looking at his hair). He'll be more than big enough to play PF, and with his athleticism, I don't even think he'll have a problem at C (although he does need to get stronger).
 
#76
He's long but this picture reminds that he might be another Brandan Wright, the guy who cannot use his skills, however limited, effectively because even SFs move him out of the way.
 
#77
I was a huge fan of Brandan Wright in the league, and still am--granted, anyone with top notch athleticism and long arms and who punches their weight with those appeal to me, but Wright's only flaw to me is his lack of rebounding. And man, if he could stay healthy and rebound perhaps at an average pace, and perhaps gain more focus, that's an all star right there. I think Dallas is really pissed off at his lack of rebounding--that just exacerbates Kaman's and Nowitzki's weaknesses right there, so that's why he's not getting playing time.

Noel kind of has the same body frame, but early returns suggest to me he's a better rebounder than Wright was in college (Wright couldn't board at college) and more of a dynamic defensive playmaker, which really helps the cause. It looks to me he's a far worse offensive player than Wright, though, so I don't think the comparison can be that direct. Those Marcus Camby comparisons that have been thrown at Noel seem right to me.
 
#78
By looking at Noel play you just know he will be a good NBA player - guy is everywhere on defense and works for his points on the other side. But you're getting Noel only with top-3 pick. And for that teams strive to get somebody better than just good player.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#79
By looking at Noel play you just know he will be a good NBA player - guy is everywhere on defense and works for his points on the other side. But you're getting Noel only with top-3 pick. And for that teams strive to get somebody better than just good player.
Thats exactly why I have my eye on Willie Cauley-Stein. He's sort of a late bloomer, confidence wise, but he's very talented, taller, and almost as athletic as Noel. He's also blocking shots at a high rate. Trust me, keep you eye on this kid!
 
#80
Thats exactly why I have my eye on Willie Cauley-Stein. He's sort of a late bloomer, confidence wise, but he's very talented, taller, and almost as athletic as Noel. He's also blocking shots at a high rate. Trust me, keep you eye on this kid!

I do like WCS. He does remind me a little of Chandler, but I think he can be better than Chandler offensively. He's a good prospect but he won't be a star (my opinion may be subject to change - I've only seen 3 Kentucky games so far). I don't think his upside is as high as Noel's.

As for looking to get better than just "good" with a top 3 pick, I'd be fine with getting him (Noel) in that range. He's probably not going to be a superstar, but he's pretty much the perfect partner next to Cousins. Noel runs the floor like a guard, he's a very fluid athlete. He's very active defensively and if/when he gets stronger, he'll be one of the best defensive big men in the league. And he doesn't project as a liability offensively, he has a solid foundation to build on and he's very co-ordinated and athletic. He could easily turn out to be an all-star big if he's developed properly.


Baja, what's your take on two guys I mentioned earlier, Smart and Carter-Williams? I know you're skeptical of Syracuse players, as you should be. But I like him. And Smart reminds me a little of Deron Williams.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#81
I do like WCS. He does remind me a little of Chandler, but I think he can be better than Chandler offensively. He's a good prospect but he won't be a star (my opinion may be subject to change - I've only seen 3 Kentucky games so far). I don't think his upside is as high as Noel's.

As for looking to get better than just "good" with a top 3 pick, I'd be fine with getting him (Noel) in that range. He's probably not going to be a superstar, but he's pretty much the perfect partner next to Cousins. Noel runs the floor like a guard, he's a very fluid athlete. He's very active defensively and if/when he gets stronger, he'll be one of the best defensive big men in the league. And he doesn't project as a liability offensively, he has a solid foundation to build on and he's very co-ordinated and athletic. He could easily turn out to be an all-star big if he's developed properly.


Baja, what's your take on two guys I mentioned earlier, Smart and Carter-Williams? I know you're skeptical of Syracuse players, as you should be. But I like him. And Smart reminds me a little of Deron Williams.
Smart is a terrific athlete with great hops. He's big for a PG, as is Carter-Williams. Seems to be a trend these days for everyone except the Kings. The first game I watched with Smart, he blew me away. Everything was clicking including his outside shot. The next game, not so much. I think Williams is a more instinctive PG than Smart, and if your looking for size, he's at the top of the class as far as PG's go. I guess I'm just not as high on Smart as some others are. I can see his potential, but he's lacking skills in certain areas, and has a tendecy to play out of control at times.

If size doesn't matter, then I'd go for Trey Burke, who is probably the best PG in the class of 2013. After him, I have Phil Pressey ranked next. Of course Burke is only 6 foot and Pressey is 5'11". But then Chris Paul is truely only 5'11". I mean if were looking for a 6'5" athletic player that can pass the ball, get to the basket, but struggles with his outside shot, I'd say we already have one of those. And I'm referring to Smart of course. As for Carter-Williams, I have no idea how good a defender he'll be. He's not as athletic as Smart, and he plays for Syracuse, which always plays a zone. I do think that Smart would be a great linebacker though.

As far as Noel is concerned, I'd love to put him next to Cousins. He'd be the perfect pairing, just as Davis would have been last year. I just don't see us having a shot at him. I suspect we'll be drafting somewhere between 7 and 10, and thats why I'm paying attention to Cauley-Stein. Not sure who else might be there just yet. I'll tell you a player that I just love to watch play, and I suspect he may slide into the second round, but more likely he'll be a late first round pick and thats Doug McDermmot from Creighton. Yeah, I know he's not a great athlete. He's to slow and can't jump, but the dude can score on anyone. He's shooting over 50% from the three, and thats not an abberation. Even in the post, where he's only 6'8", he's remarkable with his ability to score on just about anyone. He's also a very good rebounder.

Not sure exactly what position he'll play in the NBA, but I guarantee you he'll play in the NBA. I'll tell you this, if he's sitting there when I pick in the second round, I'm taking him in a heartbeat. I'll figure out the rest later. The kid has outstanding BBIQ. Probably because his father is the coach.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#82
Being were on the subject of PG's, I thought I'd mention one that doesn't get a lot of national attention. Nate Wolters, a 6'4" PG from South Dakota St. I'd love to say I've seen him play a thousand times, but they're simply not on that much. However, since he's a senior, I have seen him on quite a few occasions, and he's improved evrey year. He's probably a second round pick in the upcoming draft, and he's one of those guys that ends up with a long NBA career as either a backup, or perhaps eventually a starter. He's a smart player and a creative passer. He's also a deceptive athlete, who can take you off the dribble with clever hesitation moves or crossovers. This season he's averaging 37.4 MPG and 21.2 PPG. He's also rebounding well for his position with 5.8 boards per game. He's also averaging 5.8 assists per game. His overall shooting percentage is not bad at 46.4%, but his 3 pt percentage is down a little at 34.7%.

He good at attacking the basket, and has gotten stronger each year, making it easier for him to take contact and still score. At 6'4" he's tall enough to play some SG, but I think his future is at the point, where he has good instincts. The question of course, is the same question that was asked about Lillard last year. How will his results at a lesser conference translate to the NBA. I'm not comparing him to Lillard, who is terrific athlete. It would be nice if South Dakota St. could somehow squeek into the tourney so we can see him up against top competition. At the moment South Dakota St. is down two games in conference play in the Summit league. I imagine that the League will only get one at large bid, so the chances aren't looking good right now.
 
#83
Love Wolters. He's not the best outside shooter, but he's a pure PG at 6'4" and is tough as nails--he draws fouls at will and rebounds very well for his size. I think he has late 1st round talent. There's some Jeremy Lin-esque type stuff he's doing--he's definitely not as athletic as Lin is and really doesn't make his mark as much defensively, but stylistically there's some similarities.

I'm huge on Marcus Smart and Michael Carter-Williams. Top three material IMO.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#84
Love Wolters. He's not the best outside shooter, but he's a pure PG at 6'4" and is tough as nails--he draws fouls at will and rebounds very well for his size. I think he has late 1st round talent. There's some Jeremy Lin-esque type stuff he's doing--he's definitely not as athletic as Lin is and really doesn't make his mark as much defensively, but stylistically there's some similarities.

I'm huge on Marcus Smart and Michael Carter-Williams. Top three material IMO.
Funny you should say that about Wolters outside shot, and then mention Smart and Williams in the same post, since Wolters is a better outside shooter than either of them. However, Carter-Williams shot the ball well from the outside last season. I was just struck by the irony of it. I'm not sure if either of them are top three, but who the hell knows. Its always in the eye of the beholder. Personally I'm more intrigued by Carter-Williams simply because I think he's more skilled than Smart. At least at the moment. Just wish he wasn't going to Syracuse. However, I think smart will get chosen before Williams because of his athleticism. The dude certainly has an NBA body.

What do you think of Kyle Anderson? He's played PG all his life, and now he's playing SF, or SG, or whatever Howland wants. Not sure at times. But you can see his PG instincts regardless. Just curious...
 
#85
Yeah, you can probably tell that I value guys who can fill in the blanks rather than shoot :). Wolters is a better shooter than Carter-Williams and Smart, though, but we can't be too sure of anything since he plays in a weak conference and spent four years in college (the other two are underclassmen). But, I can already tell I'm on the generous side because most people have Wolters deep in the 2nd round. I'd like to think I'm right and he'll be a steal. He certainly has the toughness to be one, and that's a huge part of the battle IMO.

Great question on Kyle Anderson. I have friends in UCLA who really, really like him and I know that he's pissed that Larry Drew is stealing the PG thunder, but even regardless of that, if he entered in this year's draft, I'd have him as a lottery pick, based on his current play. That's how high on him I am. Great rebounder. At 6'8", he has the passing and ballhandling skills of a combo guard, one who can play the point at a pinch. And that's just his freshman year. Love the kid's athleticism--racks up steals and blocks, draws fouls very well, excellent rebounder. Everyone's going to fixate on the shooting and the lack of range, but you already know the drill with me--if you can do everything else, who cares about the shooting? I follow that tenet that shooting's the easiest thing to improve in the league. Maybe that explains why I was unnaturally high on Honeycutt, but Honeycutt passed like a small forward, never rebounded this well and was way more of a jumpshooter. Anderson seems to have no flaws apart from the shooting. Seriously. I think he should enter this year, especially accounting for the legendary UCLA fudge factor that makes UCLA players play well better in the league than at UCLA. He's the real deal IMO. Will be a lottery pick anytime he enters.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#86
Yeah, you can probably tell that I value guys who can fill in the blanks rather than shoot :). Wolters is a better shooter than Carter-Williams and Smart, though, but we can't be too sure of anything since he plays in a weak conference and spent four years in college (the other two are underclassmen). But, I can already tell I'm on the generous side because most people have Wolters deep in the 2nd round. I'd like to think I'm right and he'll be a steal. He certainly has the toughness to be one, and that's a huge part of the battle IMO.

Great question on Kyle Anderson. I have friends in UCLA who really, really like him and I know that he's pissed that Larry Drew is stealing the PG thunder, but even regardless of that, if he entered in this year's draft, I'd have him as a lottery pick, based on his current play. That's how high on him I am. Great rebounder. At 6'8", he has the passing and ballhandling skills of a combo guard, one who can play the point at a pinch. And that's just his freshman year. Love the kid's athleticism--racks up steals and blocks, draws fouls very well, excellent rebounder. Everyone's going to fixate on the shooting and the lack of range, but you already know the drill with me--if you can do everything else, who cares about the shooting? I follow that tenet that shooting's the easiest thing to improve in the league. Maybe that explains why I was unnaturally high on Honeycutt, but Honeycutt passed like a small forward, never rebounded this well and was way more of a jumpshooter. Anderson seems to have no flaws apart from the shooting. Seriously. I think he should enter this year, especially accounting for the legendary UCLA fudge factor that makes UCLA players play well better in the league than at UCLA. He's the real deal IMO. Will be a lottery pick anytime he enters.
We agree on Anderson. I have him as a lottery pick as well, and I think he's surpremely talented, and once again, Howland is doing everything he can to hide a players talents. I know he played primarily PG in highschool, but I've always questioned his ability to guard PG's at the NBA level. However, if you use him like a Scottie Pippin, then I think you get the best of both worlds. So in some ways, Howland may be doing him a favor by playing at SF. He does need to improve his shooting, but I could say that about two thirds of the players in the draft. One of the reasons I like McLemore is his ability to shoot the ball, but even he has flaws. Its very difficult to find a 19 year old thats perfect.

Your right about Wolters being a four year player, and in some ways its not fair to compare him to a freshman and a sophmore. But Wolters is another one of those players, that if he's sitting there in the second round, I'd have to give him serious consideration.
 
#87
I've yet to see Anderson, so can't comment on him. I'll definitely try to catch a UCLA game next time they're on here.

As for McDermott who Baja mentioned earlier, I haven't seen him, but would Mike Miller be a decent comparison? That's what I'm getting from reading about him. Bigger, but less athletic.
 
#88
Just watching Maryland and NC State, so it's my first time seeing Len and Leslie. It's only 5 mins in and I'm fairly sure I'm going to like Len more than Isaiah Austin, who is one of the skinniest big men I've ever seen. Len looks pretty big, and made a beautiful pass to his teammate a moment ago. Leslie has done nothing as of yet. Does anyone know anything about Maryland's freshman PG? Don't know yet if he's a serious prospect, but he's already made two eye-opening moves. One an impressive crossover going full speed which took his defender out before making an athletic shot over a big guy, and the second not too dissimilar. Maybe it won't happen too often, but it was impressive.
 
#89
I just don't know about guys like Doug McDermott. I have him pretty deep into the 2nd round (45th out of 76 prospects I saw) and the guy just looks like a glorified Luke Harangody type. There are three concerns with him: He has near center like passing ability, his level of competition's a step down, he has an absolutely horrid (like possibly NCAA-worst) rate of steals and blocks. He literally can't get them at all at the NCAA, so how's that going to fare in the NBA? He'll really be stretched defensively. There's always a ton of these types in college. Adam Morrison, Jimmer Fredette (sad, but true I think), Harangody. You know, he's just a really, really awesome college player, and...

Anyone like Aaron Craft from OSU? I know he's super polarizing--there are a few who really love him, and then there's a ton who counter that he lacks upside, lacks athleticism, is far too invisible in offense, wants to go to med school instead of playing ball (yay!). I actually really like him and think that if the draft were held today, he'd be the 23rd best talent (late 1st round). There's just something about is heart and hustle that I think can make him a mainstay in the league for many years. Few possess that. I know people said that about Kirk Hinrich and Derek Fisher, and they've been solid investments even though none of them were ever more than 4th options at their peaks. I think Craft is cut from the same cloth.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#90
I just don't know about guys like Doug McDermott. I have him pretty deep into the 2nd round (45th out of 76 prospects I saw) and the guy just looks like a glorified Luke Harangody type. There are three concerns with him: He has near center like passing ability, his level of competition's a step down, he has an absolutely horrid (like possibly NCAA-worst) rate of steals and blocks. He literally can't get them at all at the NCAA, so how's that going to fare in the NBA? He'll really be stretched defensively. There's always a ton of these types in college. Adam Morrison, Jimmer Fredette (sad, but true I think), Harangody. You know, he's just a really, really awesome college player, and...

Anyone like Aaron Craft from OSU? I know he's super polarizing--there are a few who really love him, and then there's a ton who counter that he lacks upside, lacks athleticism, is far too invisible in offense, wants to go to med school instead of playing ball (yay!). I actually really like him and think that if the draft were held today, he'd be the 23rd best talent (late 1st round). There's just something about is heart and hustle that I think can make him a mainstay in the league for many years. Few possess that. I know people said that about Kirk Hinrich and Derek Fisher, and they've been solid investments even though none of them were ever more than 4th options at their peaks. I think Craft is cut from the same cloth.
First, Craft! I love Aaron Craft, and I'm amazed when people say he's not athletic, but yet he's the best defensive PG in all of college. I mean how can you be unathletic, and still be that good on defense. I've seen some of the quickest PG's in college try and get by Craft, and all they get is frustrated. Now how good a PG Craft is, is an entirely different story. He's not an above average ballhandler, but he's adequete. His outside shot has improved every year, but since he doesn't take a lot of shots, its hard to tell how consistent he would be if he did.. He's a good passer, but he won't blow anyone away with his creative ability.

So I don't know that he could start for an NBA team someday, but anything is possible. I think that on the right team, where all you need is a PG to bring up the ball, start the offense, and take the open shot, he would fit in nicely. Where he would excell is on the other end of the floor.

As for McDermott, I've seen him play a lot over the last three years. He's a far better prospect than Harangody. He's a better athlete, but thats not saying alot. Harangody can't even compare to McDermott when it comes to shooting the ball. I won't call him automatic, but almost. He hits half of his three point shots, and close to 70% of his 2pt jumpers. Where he surprises people is in the post, where he's lightning quick with his decisions on what to do with the ball. He's so quick that many times defenders don't have time to react. From the moment the ball hits his hands in a postup, to when its in the basket is usually around 2 seconds. There's no hesitation, and it catches defenders off guard. So offensively, I think McDermott can score anywhere on just about anyone.

The question is, can he defend well enough to warrant having him on the floor for his offense. I can't answer that, and I doubt anyone can. So he's a gamble in that area. But there have been players that have carved out a spot for themselves that aren't known for thier defense. Novak springs to mind, and McDermott is as good a shooter, if not better than Novak. All I can say about his defense, is that he gives a good effort in that area. He's hurt by just avearge lateral quickness, and if not for that, he might translate to the SF position in the NBA. I just have my doubts about him guarding the quick SF's. He has the skill level to play PF, but lacks the size and strength, at only 6'8" and around 220 Lb's.

All in all, he's a surpremely talented player on the offensive side of the ball, with serious questions about the defensive side of the ball. I suspect he'll get drafted somewhere in the middle of the 2nd round, but don't be surprised if a team takes a flyer on him earlier in the draft. Thats assuming he declares for the draft, which he may not, since his father is coaching the team.
 
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