Most Likely Situation: Barnes or Drummond

[Bricklayer]

??

The video clearly points out shooting stroke as one of his strengths and mentions his 3 point shooting. Not sure where you would get that he doesn't have a 3 point shot.

Actually he doesn't,or at least he's not prolific -- it was a notable question mark in his college days. The supposedly great shooter had a strict range limit, didn't shoot that many threes, and hit a pedestrian 35.8% of them when he did. To give you a comparison, his teammate Kendall Marshall, for whom shooting/scoring is supposed to be the weakness, hit 35.4% of this threes.

Barnes is a very good shooter...from midrange, off the catch and shoot, curling off screens etc. What got exposed in college is that all those qualifiers are needed. His range is not that great -- he prefers midrange shots. He struggles to create shots himself with the ball. I think a decent style comparison might be to a young Rip Hamilton. Peja and Reggie could always bomb from long range. But in his early years Rip could not, and was strictly an off the ball midrange scorer, which didn't earn him much respect in those early days.

 

[Bricklayer]

I'm not going to accept a point that's wrong:

That's one shot. Come on.

He was a .358 shooter on 3.6 attempts a game. That basically means he made a little over a three a game. Maybe 40 on the whole year.

For comparison, according to ESPN there were 100 college shooters who shot .430 or better from three last year, and more than 100 who averaged at least 6 3pt shots a game.

He's a very good midrange shooter. That is certianly promising for him eventually being able to hit NBA threes. but it has not been a stellar part of his game to date.

 

[rainmaker]

I'm not going to accept a point that's wrong:

Not that I disagree and do think Barnes has a 3pt game, though average, not a great, a single shot doesn't show much. So, for arguments sake....

 

[vikinginferno]

Actually he doesn't,or at least he's not prolific -- it was a notable question mark in his college days. The supposedly great shooter had a strict range limit, didn't shoot that many threes, and hit a pedestrian 35.8% of them when he did. To give you a comparison, his teammate Kendall Marshall, for whom shooting/scoring is supposed to be the weakness, hit 35.4% of this threes.

Barnes is a very good shooter...from midrange, off the catch and shoot, curling off screens etc. What got exposed in college is that all those qualifiers are needed. His range is not that great -- he prefers midrange shots. He struggles to create shots himself with the ball. I think a decent style comparison might be to a young Rip Hamilton. Peja and Reggie could always bomb from long range. But in his early years Rip could not, and was strictly an off the ball midrange scorer, which didn't earn him much respect in those early days.

36% from 3 is surely at least decent. He definitely doesn't "not have a 3 pt shot" as Glenn said. He has it. It isn't knockdown 3 point shot yet, but he has it. He has great form and I am sure it will come in time with practice.

 

[Glenn]

36% from 3 is surely at least decent. He definitely doesn't "not have a 3 pt shot" as Glenn said. He has it. It isn't knockdown 3 point shot yet, but he has it. He has great form and I am sure it will come in time with practice.

So will mine.

 

[Tetsujin]

I have a three point shot but don't use it. Now I don't remember every second of the video and I only watched it once but can you point out a 3 point shot? Name the time on the video. It doesn't even have to go in. Here's your chance to nail me and be a hero or whatever your motivation is.

Or you could accept the point that three point shooting is not a big part of his game and that diasappoints me very much as what we need is a SF who can knock down three pointers.

Edit: I daw two three pointers so I'm wrong. My god, let's draft him.

I'd argue that his outside shot is the only thing we're sure about with Barnes

 

[steelevt]

not sure which thread to put this under but didnt think it needed its own thread. kings supposedly scratched drummond off their list. smokescreen? he's not the top of my list, but im fine with drummond if mkg and robinson are off the board. i thought i read he had a good workout and kings saw him as a good complement to cousins. then again, rumors are just rumors

saw the link on str
http://www.iamagm.com/news/2012/06/15/kings.will.not.draft.andre.drummond.planning.take.whoever.remains.out.robinson

 

[Tetsujin]

not sure which thread to put this under but didnt think it needed its own thread. kings supposedly scratched drummond off their list. smokescreen? he's not the top of my list, but im fine with drummond if mkg and robinson are off the board. i thought i read he had a good workout and kings saw him as a good complement to cousins. then again, rumors are just rumors

saw the link on str
http://www.iamagm.com/news/2012/06/15/kings.will.not.draft.andre.drummond.planning.take.whoever.remains.out.robinson

I would take that with a grain of salt, especially considering the fact that we have yet to even work out most of those listed players. Hell, I remember a bunch of stories a couple of years ago about how the Kings were going to pick Greg Monroe rather than Demarcus if push came to shove.

 

[rainmaker]

my sources say that Drummond is not the pick at 5 for the Sac Kings.Whoever is left of Beal, Robinson, Harrison and MKG is.

Well, it is James Ham, who probably has heard a few things we haven't. But this makes me quite nervous if true. Don't want Barnes. Don't want Beal unless Petrie is ready for a Reke/Beal backcourt, and moving MT immediately, as in on draft day, otherwise we'll get lowballed as others will know we need to move him. Beal also doesn't solve the frickin SF or PF problem.

Robinson I don't mind, IF we bring in a defensive PF capable of big mins AND we don't resign JT. Robinson/JT/Cuz is not enough collective defense at all, and two of the guys are rather duplicative of each other in JT/Robinson. But color be extremely skeptical that Petrie would draft Robinson, let JT walk, then acquire a big minute defensive PF/C. Just seems like too much for our gm.

Don't really want Barnes as he doesn't do near enough for me as the 5th pick, especially given our needs.

MKG is a "no s***, Sherlock" pick if there and you don't like Drummond. If this were to truly be the list of preference for the four guys GP wants, and Drummond didn't impress and they've already scratched him off, then I pray he's shopping the pick.

 

[Glenn]

I'd argue that his outside shot is the only thing we're sure about with Barnes

Depends on how far out an ouside shot is. He impressed me in those videos but then a highlight video is just that. He has a great midrange game and is very strong. He cannot attack the rim like Tyreke or Cousins for that matter. I suspect he is a great free throw shooter and that counts for me especially in the debate of Drummond vs Barnes. Drummond hit 29.5% last year and that is less than putrid. That percentage coupled with a few other non-attributes to Drummond's game are huge warning flags.

Barnes seems more agile on defense than I thought he would be. I have seen him in games and I must have missed his defense. At his age he could become a very good three point shooter but to this point he has made a living at two to three dribbles and mid level swishes. This is very reliable. If I am willing to give Drummond a break on his inadequacies, I should do the same with Barnes. (Note that the Kings seem to have lost interest in Drummond) I really expected more as a 3 pt shooter, though. The three point line doesn't get any closer in the NBA.

All in all I am disappointed with Barnes and that is based on team needs. I would take MKG over him and MKG can hardly be called an offensive threat of any kind. MKG has a never ending motor and we need guys like that. Stretching it a bit, MKG may be a poor man's Gerald Wallace except less likely to break any bones. As to Drummond, I was disappointed in his workout. He seemed horribly out of shape. Now, people can get into shape but the fact that he wasn't seems to support the suspicion that he is not highly motivated. Read the brief note above about the Kings lack of interest in Drummond and take it for what it is. Might be a smoke screen. I doubt it.

Teams above (below?) us need offense so I expect Beal and Barnes to be gone. That is drafting for need and not BPA. Best players are probably Davis, MKG, Robinson, Beal (?), Barnes, Drummond - my mind has gone blank so that's a cry for help from bajaden.

There is still this yearning for Drummond despite my better logic. A 7 footer should be useful but so should Kwame Brown. I'll trust Petrie.

As best I can remember, there are three shotblockers in the draft in this order: Davis, Henson, and Drummond. Drummond probably blocks shots based more on size than that innate ability of a Davis or Henson. Honestly, Henson could fit if matched up correctly and with JT and Hassan around to not only give him some one to work out against, but to be put in the lineup if someone is killing him and Cousins can't switch to him.

I don't know if I would trade down and that means EVER. Depends on if we get a vet equivalent to a #5 pick.

OK, that was a longer note. Reactions?



Edit: I'm in line with rainmaker. Robinson is JT with a much higher motor. That doesn't mean we can't have both on the team. I will scream bloody murder if we let JT go. JT is a top 7 player (including character) and you don't let a guy like that go. He may very well become that great vet leader.

 

[Boogie-havoc]

I've been saying there's absolutely no way we pick Drummond for months now.

It just doesn't make sense with him being a raw project with loads of red flags being so underwhelming when you watch him play, borderline scary - In the bad way.

We want a contributor, and we want a good character. people in our FO knows if this thing ain't gonna make a 180 degree spin soon, heads will be cut.

MKG, Barnes, Robinson - or trading down. those are the guys\actions we're going for imo.

 

[Anthony1]

I'm not totally opposed to Barnes (would be slightly disappointed), but if we do get Barnes, I just don't see how everybody is going to get their shots. Another shoe would have to drop.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Well, it is James Ham, who probably has heard a few things we haven't.

It also was posted to Twitter a day before we worked Drummond out. Doesn't mean it's true, doesn't mean it's not true, but it sure skippy didn't have anything to do with his workout. As for me, I'm treating that particular rumor as white noise.

 

[bajaden]

A comment on Barnes shot. When he's spotted up, he's a very good 3pt shooter. When he has to create his own 3pt shot off the dribble, or come off a screen, his 3pt shot was less consistent. Thus the lower overall percentage. One of his best shots was to pumpfake his defender into the air at the 3pt line, then put the ball on the floor for two dribbles toward the basket and pull up for a shot. He's not a bad straight line dribbler, and if he has an open lane, he's not a bad finisher. But he's not a change of direction dribbler. Similar to Taylor in that capacity.

 

[Vlade4GM]

A comment on Barnes shot. When he's spotted up, he's a very good 3pt shooter. When he has to create his own 3pt shot off the dribble, or come off a screen, his 3pt shot was less consistent. Thus the lower overall percentage. One of his best shots was to pumpfake his defender into the air at the 3pt line, then put the ball on the floor for two dribbles toward the basket and pull up for a shot. He's not a bad straight line dribbler, and if he has an open lane, he's not a bad finisher. But he's not a change of direction dribbler. Similar to Taylor in that capacity.

What you just described is not a top 10 pick. I really hope we don't take Barnes, I would take T. Jones, Leonard, Lamb, and Sullinger over him at 5 without hesitation.

 

[Bricklayer]

A comment on Barnes shot. When he's spotted up, he's a very good 3pt shooter. When he has to create his own 3pt shot off the dribble, or come off a screen, his 3pt shot was less consistent. Thus the lower overall percentage. One of his best shots was to pumpfake his defender into the air at the 3pt line, then put the ball on the floor for two dribbles toward the basket and pull up for a shot. He's not a bad straight line dribbler, and if he has an open lane, he's not a bad finisher. But he's not a change of direction dribbler. Similar to Taylor in that capacity.

Should note that for us that spot up 3pt shot is the one we need. Part of the awkwardness of Jimmer last year is yeah he can hit a three, but he'd jsut assume do it off hsi own dribble. Same syndrome with Salmons and Outlaw. Catching and shooting never looked comfortable. Always wanted to catch, dribble to their spot, then shoot. but that is not good teamwork. That doesn't create the sapce you are trying to create, because the opposing defense has time to recover. As far as 3pt shooting what we need is are roleplaying guys who can do what Battier is doing in these Finals. Ball hits hand, ball is released. No dribbling involved. In that aspect at least Barnes' limitations do not hurt.

 

[Boogie-havoc]

If we get Barnes/Beal/Drummond left (heck maybe even MKG), I absolutely offer a #5 + Garcia for Iggy + 15 to Philly, which is something i'm pretty sure they're gonna agree to.

All-World defender, one of the best catch and shoot players in the league for a couple of years now, amazing facilitator, great size.

Iggy is just the best fit at SF to our team. In #15 we can also get a very good player who slips, maybe even a guy like Zeller or who knows Henson.

 

[roasthawg]

If we get Barnes/Beal/Drummond left (heck maybe even MKG), I absolutely offer a #5 + Garcia for Iggy + 15 to Philly, which is something i'm pretty sure they're gonna agree to.

All-World defender, one of the best catch and shoot players in the league for a couple of years now, amazing facilitator, great size.

Iggy is just the best fit at SF to our team. In #15 we can also get a very good player who slips, maybe even a guy like Zeller or who knows Henson.

Like the trade idea... Iggy is a stud.

Still want Henson even with that 30" vert at only 215lbs? Seems like he should be able to get off the ground a little better than that being so light... strange.

 

[cuad]

not sure which thread to put this under but didnt think it needed its own thread. kings supposedly scratched drummond off their list. smokescreen? he's not the top of my list, but im fine with drummond if mkg and robinson are off the board. i thought i read he had a good workout and kings saw him as a good complement to cousins. then again, rumors are just rumors

saw the link on str
http://www.iamagm.com/news/2012/06/...nd.planning.take.whoever.remains.out.robinson

I think I understand what the Kings are doing. They worked him out to make him look as good as possible. That way CHA, WAS and CLE will be more likely to draft Drummond and let someone else fall to the Kings!

 

[pshn80]

I would pick Barnes but most on here would pick Drummond. After reading these offerings I think our chances of success are about the same either way. Maybe Barnes is a little farther along than Drummond. We certainly don't need an all star at the three. We just need a successful role player we can rely on to support the rest. Barnes might be just that.

 

[Glenn]

I'm not going to accept a point that's wrong:

I stated in real words for all to read that three point shooting is not a major part of his game. Can you provide evidence that I am wrong? I am not so enamored with your knowledge of basketball or even your attitude in trying to have a logical conversation to trust a one sentence comment and a video of a player hitting ONE corner three.

 

[dbfish]

Drummond!!
Small forwards are more readily available. GP should know. he has 3 or 4 of them now. Just off the top of my head Peja is the only star quality sf that GP has picked or aquired. So I guess what I'm saying is that he hasn't had a very good track record in this regards.
I'm saying he hit it big with Cuz and maybe he gets lightning in abottle again with Drummond. I choose Drummond.
Now if Barnes were 4" taller I might change my mind.

 

[BMiller52]

I stated in real words for all to read that three point shooting is not a major part of his game. Can you provide evidence that I am wrong? I am not so enamored with your knowledge of basketball or even your attitude in trying to have a logical conversation to trust a one sentence comment and a video of a player hitting ONE corner three.

Well considering I watched him play like 20 times I think it's safe to say I'm a better judge of what he can do then you are when you have even admitted that you haven't watched him much/at all. But yeah it's totally reasonable to diss my basketball knowledge when you haven't even seen the guy play...

Game log: http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/51385/harrison-barnes
video which shows some of his long distance shooting:

 

[roasthawg]

Barnes looks pretty athletic in that clip... he probablly dunks more than anyone we have right now. Nice combo of at the rim stuff, midrange, and deep shooting. He looks to have good upside as a scorer in this league for sure.

 

[Telemachus]

Drummond!!
Small forwards are more readily available. GP should know. he has 3 or 4 of them now. Just off the top of my head Peja is the only star quality sf that GP has picked or aquired. So I guess what I'm saying is that he hasn't had a very good track record in this regards.
I'm saying he hit it big with Cuz and maybe he gets lightning in abottle again with Drummond. I choose Drummond.
Now if Barnes were 4" taller I might change my mind.

I'm pretty sure that Petrie also drafted Gerald Wallace and Hedo Turkolu (both pretty good SFs IMO). He also acquired Ron artest (or it may have been the Maloofs, but who knows). I also think that he drafted Corlis Williamson (a solid SF), but that may have been before he came to the Kings (can't remember and too lazy to look it up).

 

[ElRey]

Barnes looks pretty athletic in that clip... he probablly dunks more than anyone we have right now. Nice combo of at the rim stuff, midrange, and deep shooting. He looks to have good upside as a scorer in this league for sure.

Barnes' problem is that he's neither very quick or good off the dribble, so he has trouble creating his own shot. But on a team with Tyreke and Cousins, that's not going to be a problem since those guys will create shots for him. He just needs to be a good shooter so that teams respect his shot enough to not constantly double team or pack the middle on Tyreke and Demarcus.

 

[bajaden]

Barnes' problem is that he's neither very quick or good off the dribble, so he has trouble creating his own shot. But on a team with Tyreke and Cousins, that's not going to be a problem since those guys will create shots for him. He just needs to be a good shooter so that teams respect his shot enough to not constantly double team or pack the middle on Tyreke and Demarcus.

Look, Barnes can shoot the ball. His problem is trying to create his own shot. He's not terrible, but he's not good either. But he'll get better. We're talking about a young athletic man here. He can play right now. He may not be my first choice, but I think he'll be a good player.

 

[ParniValjak]

Look, Barnes can shoot the ball. His problem is trying to create his own shot. He's not terrible, but he's not good either. But he'll get better. We're talking about a young athletic man here. He can play right now. He may not be my first choice, but I think he'll be a good player.

Peja could not create his own shot either but still made a good career in the NBA. Granted that Peja was a fantastic shooter with some serious range and he was taller.

I do agree with you that he will be a good player and his athletic ability and reportedly strong work ethic will at least ensure that he will be a good defender in the league. Not sure he will ever be a lock down defender but a good defensive player.

His shooting technique is excellent...almost textbook type stuff which should at least make him a good shooter at the next level. He could be around 39-40% from 3 on spot up 3s.

I honestly don't know who I would want with our pick as there is just not a lot there in terms of star quality. Drummond is just too high a risk and could well be more of a chance to bust than make it. Robinson is a nice prospect but I am not sure that he is a star or a great fit next to Cousins.

Beal, I think will make a good pro. His jump shot is exquisite but he is undersized, not off the charts athletically and we also have Thornton on our roster, not to mention too many SGs.

Kidd-Gilchrist I love. His intensity, leadership and defense is what this team desperately needs...but his shooting becomes a problem for us. We need someone to at least be competent but he makes Tyreke look like Ray Allen!

Who would be your preferred choices with pick 5?! We know Davis is a certainty at 1 but how would you rank the rest of the prospects that might be available?

 

[mac]

Drummond!!
Small forwards are more readily available. GP should know. he has 3 or 4 of them now. Just off the top of my head Peja is the only star quality sf that GP has picked or aquired. So I guess what I'm saying is that he hasn't had a very good track record in this regards.
I'm saying he hit it big with Cuz and maybe he gets lightning in abottle again with Drummond. I choose Drummond.
Now if Barnes were 4" taller I might change my mind.

The irony in your post is that as you say Small forwards are more readily available, that GP has 3 or 4 of them now, but that we're still looking for one. Kinda shows you just how "readily available" good small forwards.

 

[pshn80]

Barnes' problem is that he's neither very quick or good off the dribble, so he has trouble creating his own shot. But on a team with Tyreke and Cousins, that's not going to be a problem since those guys will create shots for him. He just needs to be a good shooter so that teams respect his shot enough to not constantly double team or pack the middle on Tyreke and Demarcus.

Agree. I think he can do what we need at SF. We DON'T need another "create your own shot" guy. We need a sure teammate, team player. No stars, please.