Tyreke is NOT happy

[rainmaker]

This is one of the most ridiculous posts I have ever seen on this forum. IT has considerably worse tunnel vision than Tyreke? Are you serious? Do you even watch Kings games? IT EASILY has the best court vision on the team. He rarely notices Thornton or Tyreke? Come on, man. IT has the stickiest fingers on the team? Dude, what you are saying is absolutely crazy talk. You are more ridiculous than the super anti-Tyreke people of the last few seasons.

Why the hell do people forget that Tyreke was TERRIBLE when he was played at PG this season? At PG, he averaged 16.8 ppg on 41.5% shooting, 5 assists, 4.8 rebounds, and 3 turnovers per game. Those are not good numbers at all, but people seem to have some crazy memory-changing problem where they think Tyreke played amazing when he was at PG. In reality, he was not good. Not good at all.

Terrible? With an ast rate equal to Westbrook/Rose/Wall/Parker? That's terrible? We beat OKC/LAL/POR/SA with Reke at point, and were 8-14 during his short stint there under Smart with a tougher, road heavy schedule, while 10-23 with IT there with a much easier, home heavy schedule. That's better!?

5+asts with Reke at point, and 4.6 for the year while being played at SF, is still better than the 4.0 IT have averaged for the year while playing the majority of the season with the keys to the offense handed over to him.

11.6/4/2.6 and a worse winning % is better? On what planet? In what reality? IT has fewer asts than Reke did when at point. Because IT is at point and not Reke, it set in motion us being the worst defensive team in the league by a considerable margin. We're winning at a worse % than with Reke at point under Westy. We're getting blown off the court by teams we beat in Feb with Reke at point. So IT's stats are worse individually, AND we're worse as a team, yet you think we're better, and my post is ridiculous? Don't let pig poop fall and hit you in the head next time you step outside.

 

[VF21]

Not sure how you could make a list of the most ridiculous posts "I have ever seen".

Oh, I'm sorry. Obviously you haven't read enough posts to really know how ridiculous they can get. My bad.

 

[rainmaker]

That was my thought, too. Someone better suited to stats than I might compare all the PG stats in the league and see where Evans ranked.

He was one of 5-6 players in the league averaging 17/5/5. Westbrook was the only other pg, but his asts have since dropped to the 4-5 range. Reke's ast rate under Smart as a PG, was on the same level as cancerous underachieving ballhogs like Westbrook/Rose/Parker/Wall. Under Smart as a pg Reke was averaging 7+ asts, while we went 8-14, a considerably better winning % than with IT at point since.

 

[Bricklayer]

The list of all the players Tyreke failed to make better in his first two seasons, along with current wherabouts:

Hilton Armstrong -- out of league
John Brockman -- averaging 1.1pts a game in 6.1min for Milwaulkee
Omri Casspi -- averaging 7.1pts a game on .406 shooting for Cleveland. Lost starting spot.
Samuel Dalembert -- averaging 7.6pts a game as platoon starter for Houston
Joey Dorsey -- out of league
Spencer Hawes -- after hot start, got hurt, currently averaging 9.5pts a game for Philly
Luther Head -- out of league
Darnell Jackson -- out of league
Pooh Jeter -- out of league
Carl Landry -- averaging 12.7pts off the bench for 20win team in New Orelans.
Kevin Martin -- averaging 17ppg on.413 shooting for Houston. Oh, and he's hurt again
Desmond Mason -- out of league
Sean May -- out of league
Dominic McGuire -- averaging 3.3pts in 17.2min in Golden State
Andres Nocioni -- out of league
Sergio Rodriques -- out of league
Jermaine Taylor -- out of league
Garret Temple -- out of league
Kenny Thomas -- out of league
Ime Udoka -- out of league
Beno Udrih -- averaging 5.9pts a game in 17.9min off the bench for Milwaulkee
Antoine Wright -- out of league


Now
1) I am going to start to SHOUT THIS: we were a better team THIS season with Tyreke running the point than we have been since Isaiah took over for all this smallball nonsense.
2) and above is a list of all the guys not currently on the team who Tyreke had to play with in his first two years. WHO EXACTLY WAS HE SUPPOSED TO MAKE BETTER? And how come nobody else could make them any better either?

Sorry about the self quote, but this flows from the same list:

While HOU and MIL still have outside chances,there is a good chance that not a single Kings player from the past three years will be in the playoff this year. Not one. And its Reke's fault. Its also his fault the coach is playing him out of position, that he got better results playing his position than his replacement, and that your mom's cat died.

 

[VF21]

He was one of 5-6 players in the league averaging 17/5/5. Westbrook was the only other pg, but his asts have since dropped to the 4-5 range. Reke's ast rate under Smart as a PG, was on the same level as cancerous underachieving ballhogs like Westbrook/Rose/Parker/Wall. Under Smart as a pg Reke was averaging 7+ asts, while we went 8-14, a considerably better winning % than with IT at point since.

Thanks. That's what I thought but I didn't want to make any comment like that without having my stats straight. Certainly didn't want to be accused of being ridiculous.

 

[xrzn]

Someone needs to send that list Brick made to GP and the Maloofs

 

[vikinginferno]

When will people realize that correlation does not mean causation? The only argument people can come up with is that the Kings at the beginning of Smart's reign when Tyreke was at PG had a better record than now. You could also make the correlation that the Kings are better with Salmons starting under Smart then, which I'm sure we all know is ridiculous.

Are we forgetting that we also lost by 39 against Dallas, 33 against Memphis, 29 against Denver, 27 against Philadelphia, 15 against New York, 14 against Houston, and 13 against Minnesota in that short time period with Tyreke at PG under Smart? Before that with Tyreke at PG, yes, we squeaked by with some wins (pretty much all bottom feeders except for OKC on national TV), but we lost by huge margins in most of the losses. With IT at PG, we only have had 1 pretty bad loss to SA and that was still only 25 points. Pretty much every other game, we have been extremely competitive. I'm not good enough with stats, but if someone could find the point differential before/after the switch, I'm sure it would be much better after.

 

[Npliam]

Sorry about the self quote, but this flows from the same list:

While HOU and MIL still have outside chances,there is a good chance that not a single Kings player from the past three years will be in the playoff this year. Not one. And its Reke's fault. Its also his fault the coach is playing him out of position, that he got better results playing his position than his replacement, and that your mom's cat died.

What teams that are going to make the playoffs do you think Tyreke would start at PG for?

 

[Heuge]

Not sure how you could make a list of the most ridiculous posts "I have ever seen".

More to the point, the post in question wasn't that bad at all.

 

[vikinginferno]

Oh, I'm sorry. Obviously you haven't read enough posts to really know how ridiculous they can get. My bad.

Nice to see some good ol' patronizing by the mods here. Actually, I have been around here quite a while (since Feb. 2009). Not as long as you, but I am no new guy. To me, that post was up there with the most ridiculous ones. You can disagree, but you won't see me trying to patronize you because of it.

 

[Heuge]

What teams that are going to make the playoffs do you think Tyreke would start at PG for?

One could argue that he could start on every playoff team in the west. At PG specifically? Probably not. But I don't think that really matters.

 

[Heuge]

Nice to see some good ol' patronizing by the mods here. Actually, I have been around here quite a while (since Feb. 2009). Not as long as you, but I am no new guy. To me, that post was up there with the most ridiculous ones. You can disagree, but you won't see me trying to patronize you because of it.

When you make outlandish statements, sometimes you open yourself up to a wide variety of responses. I've been around long enough to see that...

 

[Tetsujin]

Oh come on guys, can't you all see that Tyreke is the biggest waste of space in the NBA? Freaking bust. Should have drafted Flynn instead...

 

[vikinginferno]

When you make outlandish statements, sometimes you open yourself up to a wide variety of responses. I've been around long enough to see that...

Yep, my post was the outlandish one. I guess we are in Bizarro world..

 

[hrdboild]

More to the point, the post in question wasn't that bad at all.

In fact, it's pretty hard to argue with his assertion that Tyreke's performance as the starting PG his rookie season was much more impressive than Thomas' performance this season. IT has a supporting cast that includes three guys who've proven they could get 20 points on any given night. That year Tyreke had a revolving cast of career role players and a starting center who's allergic to basketball.

Of course if you call someone else's post ridiculous and then go on to say that 17 ppg, 5 rpg, and 5 apg from a starting PG constitutes terrible performance than you call your own credibility into question. From what I remember having checked the PG position leaderboards early in the season, Tyreke was third in rebounding (after Wall and Lowry) and in the top 10 in assists and steals. IT has been good, but Tyreke was better. For the stretch of games in question early this season where Tyreke was still the starting PG, the team had other problems at the time which weren't related to Tyreke (here I'll name them: John Salmons, Travis Outlaw, JJ Hickson, Jimmer Fredette)

 

[Mass]

This team won't ever be successful with this owners. I believe the point here is not about Reke and if he's improved or not. I believe that he is going to be traded because the Maloofs are broke and don't want to pay for him.

What scares me the most is that next year we could be in the same situation with DMC. I can't believe what I'm hearing. We keep around and overpay useless players, and we let one of the best we have walk after 3 years. 3 years where he's never had a real coach and a good system. I'm sure this whole story will end up in a big big mess for us. But, after all, it's what this franchise deserves. What a joke.

 

[Bricklayer]

When will people realize that correlation does not mean causation? The only argument people can come up with is that the Kings at the beginning of Smart's reign when Tyreke was at PG had a better record than now. You could also make the correlation that the Kings are better with Salmons starting under Smart then, which I'm sure we all know is ridiculous.

Are we forgetting that we also lost by 39 against Dallas, 33 against Memphis, 29 against Denver, 27 against Philadelphia, 15 against New York, 14 against Houston, and 13 against Minnesota in that short time period with Tyreke at PG under Smart? Before that with Tyreke at PG, yes, we squeaked by with some wins (pretty much all bottom feeders except for OKC on national TV), but we lost by huge margins in most of the losses. With IT at PG, we only have had 1 pretty bad loss to SA and that was still only 25 points. Pretty much every other game, we have been extremely competitive. I'm not good enough with stats, but if someone could find the point differential before/after the switch, I'm sure it would be much better after.

How's this for your correlation?

During the 8-14 stretch with Reke at the helm, we played 8 home games, and 14 road games.

During the 10-24 stretch with IT at the helm, we have played 20 home games and 14 road games.

Oh, and Thornton missed 8 of the 22 games (7 entirely, played 5 minutes in an 8th). And the coach was new and installing a new system. And Reke had to contend with our stubborn refusal to get Salmons out of the staritng lineup. And out stubborn refusal to quit playing Jimmer after all the hype we'd spent. And our stubborn refusal to quit paying Hickson because he's come around right? Oh, and to top it off Hayes got hurt and missed almost the whole stretch.

Just exactly how much correlation would you like?

 

[VF21]

Nice to see some good ol' patronizing by the mods here. Actually, I have been around here quite a while (since Feb. 2009). Not as long as you, but I am no new guy. To me, that post was up there with the most ridiculous ones. You can disagree, but you won't see me trying to patronizyou because of it.

There are over 326,000 posts just in the Kings Rap forum. You made an exaggeration in a statement and I merely tried pointing out - without sarcasm or patronizing attitude - that I thought as much. Perhaps if your initial comments hadn't been quite so overblown, you wouldn't be having so much trouble trying to defend them. It's problematic to use terms like "most ridiculous" when referring to someone else's comments. The comment wasn't ridiculous and Evans' stats aren't "terrible" - even though you went back and changed your terminology after the fact.

You want to patronize me? Feel free to do so. But please do not act as though you were making totally rational comments and being challenged without cause.

 

[CruzDude]

Tyrekes inability to shoot the ball is/will be his downfall here. You cant give a guy with elite driving ability, with average court vision and passing ability/ bball iq the reigns to a team. All the great ball handling sg's have on thing in common, great court vision and bball iq (Wade, Jordan, Bryant etc.). Tyreke operates at one speed and has tunnel vision when driving. When the other teams knows you cant throw the ball into an ocean, all they have to do is pack the paint because they know Tyreke can't get his teammates good looks consistently. Tyreke had one great season on a terrible team that gave the ball to him exclusively, since then its all potential and no improvement. This organization hasn't done Tyreke any favors, but improving your jumpshot has nothing to do with a bad franchise, its squarely on the player.

Horay! Exactly my feelings too. Well put.

 

[VF21]

This team won't ever be successful with this owners. I believe the point here is not about Reke and if he's improved or not. I believe that he is going to be traded because the Maloofs are broke and don't want to pay for him.

What scares me the most is that next year we could be in the same situation with DMC. I can't believe what I'm hearing. We keep around and overpay useless players, and we let one of the best we have walk after 3 years. 3 years where he's never had a real coach and a good system. I'm sure this whole story will end up in a big big mess for us. But, after all, it's what this franchise deserves. What a joke.

One point of clarification if I might? Evans isn't gone, at least not yet. The media loves to puff up a story, much like they all preached that Webber would never resign with us, that he was headed to Detroit, etc. Luckily, people on message boards don't dictate front office policy. Maybe it's a remnant of the eternal optimist in me, but I believe the front office is intent on keeping Evans and DMC together, even if it might not appear that way to some right now.

 

[Bricklayer]

Fortunately however the switch to IT/smallball has of course made a really really dramatic improvement in our main guys' stats (I'm going to use Feb stats and post All Star stats as approximations because I don't want to have to do huge crunching for an obvious point):

Thornton
In February: 37.1min 20.4pts (.439 .361 .857) 3.5reb 2.2ast 1.4stl 0.4blk 1.7TO
Post-Allstar: 33.7min 19.1pts (.462 .338 .857) 3.8reb 1.8ast 1.2stl 0.2blk 1.2TO

Cousins
In February: 30.1min 19.0pts (.419 .333 .781) 12.3reb 1.2ast 1.2stl 0.9blk 2.6TO
Post-AllStar: 31.1min 19.0pts (.450 .111 .671) 10.5reb 2.2ast 1.8stl 1.1blk 2.6TO

Evans
In February: 36.6min 17.6pts (.420 .240 .860) 5.1reb 5.5ast 1.3stl 0.5blk 2.8TO
Post-AllStar: 32.1min 15.0pts (.471 .111 .732) 4.0reb 3.7ast 1.2stl 0.4blk 2.5TO


Wow! What a step forward! Sure am glad we made that change! Who needs wins with such bigt gains elsewhere. We have gained in efficiency. That's it. In a running game featuring cheap easy shots and no defense. We have lost in impact. Lost more games, and done it at home. There is one player this change has benefitted. One (maybe Salmons before he got 'hurt"). There is not a coach, fornt office person, or fan who it has benefitted. It has made us look like jokes all over again.

 

[cstorm]

...but I believe the front office is intent on keeping Evans and DMC together, even if it might not appear that way to some right now.

The Maloofs torpedoed the arena deal in an effort to kill fan enthusiasm in my opinion, so they could move the franchise. I'm beginning to think that these silly moves like extending Smart and creating this totally dysfunctional team and putting Tyreke in trade gossip are just another play in the big plan to move the team. *Takes off aluminum foil hat...

 

[rainmaker]

Fortunately however the switch to IT/smallball has of course made a really really dramatic improvement in our main guys' stats (I'm going to use Feb stats and post All Star stats as approximations because I don't want to have to do huge crunching for an obvious point):

Thornton
In February: 37.1min 20.4pts (.439 .361 .857) 3.5reb 2.2ast 1.4stl 0.4blk 1.7TO
Post-Allstar: 33.7min 19.1pts (.462 .338 .857) 3.8reb 1.8ast 1.2stl 0.2blk 1.2TO

Cousins
In February: 30.1min 19.0pts (.419 .333 .781) 12.3reb 1.2ast 1.2stl 0.9blk 2.6TO
Post-AllStar: 31.1min 19.0pts (.450 .111 .671) 10.5reb 2.2ast 1.8stl 1.1blk 2.6TO

Evans
In February: 36.6min 17.6pts (.420 .240 .860) 5.1reb 5.5ast 1.3stl 0.5blk 2.8TO
Post-AllStar: 32.1min 15.0pts (.471 .111 .732) 4.0reb 3.7ast 1.2stl 0.4blk 2.5TO


Wow! What a step forward! Sure am glad we made that change! Who needs wins with such bigt gains elsewhere. We have gained in efficiency. That's it. In a running game featuring cheap easy shots and no defense. We have lost in impact. Lost more games, and done it at home. There is one player this change has benefitted. One (maybe Salmons before he got 'hurt"). There is not a coach, fornt office person, or fan who it has benefitted. It has made us look like jokes all over again.

The million dollar question is was this all just an ROY short term money grab, which will be promptly handled this summer, or is our FO/coach as delusional as many here fear? At least we should get that answer in the next couple months.

 

[kingsnation]

...What a shame.

If Reke does leave, this franchise is essentially saying: Keith Smart > Tyreke Evans

 

[CruzDude]

To follow my comment above, IMHO Tyreke is a 2, a SG, a scorer BUT he has to have the mid-range jumper and in particular the stop-and-pop on the way to the basket. As has been said numerous times, every team knows Tyreke's game is going to the basket and unfortunately AT ALL COSTS! So easy to stop by the top 20 teams. Without that mid-range ability to open up the middle, his overall value declines. He develops that then he is back on the all-star track. But as a 2-guard, not a PG.

 

[Mass]

One point of clarification if I might? Evans isn't gone, at least not yet. The media loves to puff up a story, much like they all preached that Webber would never resign with us, that he was headed to Detroit, etc. Luckily, people on message boards don't dictate front office policy. Maybe it's a remnant of the eternal optimist in me, but I believe the front office is intent on keeping Evans and DMC together, even if it might not appear that way to some right now.

I know, sorry, but I was just considering the worst case scenario. I hope you're right and he will stay with the Kings. But you know, it's hard for me to be optimistic with the owners we have. Maybe I'm too passionate, but I get really mad when I read news like this.

 

[vikinginferno]

To follow my comment above, IMHO Tyreke is a 2, a SG, a scorer BUT he has to have the mid-range jumper and in particular the stop-and-pop on the way to the basket. As has been said numerous times, every team knows Tyreke's game is going to the basket and unfortunately AT ALL COSTS! So easy to stop by the top 20 teams. Without that mid-range ability to open up the middle, his overall value declines. He develops that then he is back on the all-star track. But as a 2-guard, not a PG.

I agree completely with you and jcwkings. Tyreke hasn't developed anything in his game in 3 years and people seem to want to simply overlook that and put all of the blame on coaching and other players (Isaiah Thomas? Really?). No question he is a talented player and shouldn't be traded for much less than a star-level player or star-potential player. People here want to see Tyreke have the ball basically 100% of the time, which is just silly.

 

[hrdboild]

I agree completely with you and jcwkings. Tyreke hasn't developed anything in his game in 3 years and people seem to want to simply overlook that and put all of the blame on coaching and other players (Isaiah Thomas? Really?). No question he is a talented player and shouldn't be traded for much less than a star-level player or star-potential player. People here want to see Tyreke have the ball basically 100% of the time, which is just silly.

If you believe that than you aren't listening to what people are saying.

 

[Spike]

**** it. We deserve what we get. Fans deserve what they get. Management deserves what it gets.

 

[VF21]

**** it. We deserve what we get. Fans deserve what they get. Management deserves what it gets.

Having a bad day Spike?