[Game] Game Thread: Kings at Grizzlies 1/21/12

I mean, the Grizz have been dismantling teams. The way they looked tonight they'd have beat the Heat. And they destroyed the Bulls. We also had Thornton, Salmons, Hayes out. 3 starters. Not an excuse - none for losing by this much at all. There's no excuse for a 23 point losing average away from home.

We need defenders. Seriously.
 
We are 1 win away from going .500 in our last 10 games. That is an improvement regardless of the losses. Plus doesn't matter if you lose by 50, all the losses count the same.
I've never bought into that line of thinking. When most of your losses are blowouts it's because you're a bad team, plain and simple. If your losses are at least competitive you can chalk it up to "they just played better than us", but when you're getting your butt kicked in nearly every loss, it's a bad sign.
 
This Ahmed guy could be a starting big man on the kings. /tic

I agree with everyone that the defense needs works. But a REAL offense benefits defense, and vice versa.
 
I've never bought into that line of thinking. When most of your losses are blowouts it's because you're a bad team, plain and simple. If your losses are at least competitive you can chalk it up to "they just played better than us", but when you're getting your butt kicked in nearly every loss, it's a bad sign.
Oh there is no doubt we are terrible right now. Considering I think this team is less talented than the team last year but is on pace to win more games this year is a good sign. Of course the fact that we are less talented now is a whole other discussion that we have been through on this board. All I know is that we wouldn't be the first team to struggle for several seasons before getting better because of some good luck and a couple of trades.
 
Oh there is no doubt we are terrible right now. Considering I think this team is less talented than the team last year but is on pace to win more games this year is a good sign. Of course the fact that we are less talented now is a whole other discussion that we have been through on this board. All I know is that we wouldn't be the first team to struggle for several seasons before getting better because of some good luck and a couple of trades.
I don't see how they're less talented. They lost Beno, Dalembert, and Casspi, and brought in Hayes, Jimmer, Thomas, and Hickson. You could argue those are lateral moves but I don't see how it decreases talent.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I don't see how they're less talented. They lost Beno, Dalembert, and Casspi, and brought in Hayes, Jimmer, Thomas, and Hickson. You could argue those are lateral moves but I don't see how it decreases talent.

Your blindness to Daly aside, the subtraction of two rock solid roleplayers who just know how to play would obviously have a huge impact on the team. Or almost any team. Oddly even the coach seems to think so.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
So we can assume that we are going to see a similar type of blowout in Portland, yeah? I was hoping this game would be at least watchable and do what young teams do...compete. Sigh. so much for that.
 
Your blindness to Daly aside, the subtraction of two rock solid roleplayers who just know how to play would obviously have a huge impact on the team. Or almost any team. Oddly even the coach seems to think so.

Then if it were me making a judgement in relation to his statements I would take it as a potential shunning of the spot light onto any are other than the one that he seems to find himself in. This team hasn't fallen apart in any other area other than offense. Per minute this team is still dominating the glass and is near top ten despite having the single worse offense in the entire league at the moment. Beno and Casspi would certainly help in some areas, but the question that needs to be raised is how these guys can be used together. Some of the pieces that were picked up should help this team offensively especially in the area of spreading the floor and shooting which were the major weakness for most of last year. If you have no definition of role it matters not who you bring in, but how they are used, at least when you are this bad on most nights. I don't think its a problem of guys not accepting their roles but rather that they don't know what their roles are. Things are starting to come together here and there, this game, while a blow out, had moments of clarity interspersed with the disparaging butt kicking.
 
I wonder if he has any solutions besides going small. He appears to go small whenever we get down, regardless of the opponent. Not a good sign.
I love the fact that Hollins took one look at that line up and said, screw you, I am leaving Gasol in and I am going to him every time down the court. We got absolutely spanked by an opponent who played on their own terms regardless of how small we went. Bottom line.....you can't teach size and we are tiny when you take Cousins and JT out....as in midget tiny!

Good teams don't get caught up in the small ball bull****. They are built tall and tough and absolutely love it when the opponents go small because it gives them MORE advantage that than they might have had originally.

For half a season last year, we had that sort of team...then the off-season happened.
 
Your blindness to Daly aside, the subtraction of two rock solid roleplayers who just know how to play would obviously have a huge impact on the team. Or almost any team. Oddly even the coach seems to think so.
Let's stick to the topic here, shall we? The question was about overall talent, not how badly the team needs role players.
 
Overall talent should factor in defense, knowledge and consistency. Beno > Jimmer or IT at this point. Dally's talent equates to more wins and his rebounding and defense dwarfs Hicksons' D. Hayes is a nice roleplayer but it's an overall drop in team talent.
 
Overall talent should factor in defense, knowledge and consistency. Beno > Jimmer or IT at this point. Dally's talent equates to more wins and his rebounding and defense dwarfs Hicksons' D. Hayes is a nice roleplayer but it's an overall drop in team talent.
Conventionally, talent is not something that's conflated with things like knowledge, consistency, defense etc. Talent, the way I interpret it at least, refers more to overall skill level, amount of raw potential, natural ability, etc. No doubt Dalembert and Beno are higher caliber NBA players than Hickson and Jimmer at this point, but are they really more talented? I think not.
 
What talent does Hickson have, honestly? He can shoot a little from the outside and has athleticism. Dalembert has better rebounding skills, better shotblocking, is a better passer and can dunk over people as well.
 
Overall talent should factor in defense, knowledge and consistency. Beno > Jimmer or IT at this point. Dally's talent equates to more wins and his rebounding and defense dwarfs Hicksons' D. Hayes is a nice roleplayer but it's an overall drop in team talent.

You're speaking about disconnected parts of the argument and game as a whole. This team with the talent it has now, should be even better that that team offensively, which wasn't to say it was all that great before. However, this team has better shooters now, and all of the players mentioned above are roleplayers of a different type. Hayes should help the offense, the problem is for the longest time there hasn't been an offense to help. Things seems to be looking up from game to game, just have to hope the progression is more dramatic as time goes on.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
How many people think the Kings would have won if we had Dally? Seriously.

If the Kings had Howard in there maybe, maybe, maybe they could have competed against the Grizz tonight. The Grizz are just further along in their development than the Kings. More refined. Better shooters. Better basketball players. And tonight they were extremely hot.
 
How many people think the Kings would have won if we had Dally? Seriously.

If the Kings had Howard in there maybe, maybe, maybe they could have competed against the Grizz tonight. The Grizz are just further along in their development than the Kings. More refined. Better shooters. Better basketball players. And tonight they were extremely hot.
With Dally we only lose by 25! Hahaha
 
You're speaking about disconnected parts of the argument and game as a whole. This team with the talent it has now, should be even better that that team offensively, which wasn't to say it was all that great before. However, this team has better shooters now, and all of the players mentioned above are roleplayers of a different type. Hayes should help the offense, the problem is for the longest time there hasn't been an offense to help. Things seems to be looking up from game to game, just have to hope the progression is more dramatic as time goes on.
You're sort of struggling with your words, but improving the offense isn't as simple as adding more shooters. Beno provided offensive stability. He is a consistent player. He can run a consistent pick n roll. He really isn't that great of a passer and had one of lowest assist rates among starting PGs, but he provided a stability that outweighs the benign matter of added shooters on the roster. Meanwhile, Dalembert provided defensive and rebounding stability which helps the team get more fastbreak opportunities and puts less pressure on their offense to make shots every time down the floor. Dalembert also worked the high post offense better than Hickson.
 
I just realized they were missing 3 of 5 starters with Hayes, Salmons, and Thornton out. Not that that's an excuse for getting blown out. But it is somewhat encouraging insofar as what things could look like a few weeks down the road with a full roster and more practice time under Smart. I'm anxious to see how Smart uses Hayes.
 
I would say that overall we had a minor increase in talent offensively and a major decrease in talent defensively. Considering about half the game is spent on the defensive side, I would say that we are less talented.

I don't think anyone can argue that our new talent isn't offensive. :p