Keith Smart to make lineup changes

MassachusettsKingsFan

MassachusettsKingsFan

All-Star
#31
#31
bajaden said:
The first change I would make is to replace Hickson with Thompson. JT is at the moment the most efficient offensive player we have shooting 56.9% from the floor overall. Versus Hickson whose shooting 36.8% overall, which is terrible for a perimiter player, much less a PF. JT's biggest flaw this season so far is his freethrow shooting, which in the past has been decent, so one has to think its an abberation. Both JT's and Hickson's rebounding numbers are at their highest when on the floor with Cousins.

Although some of you haven't bothered to notice, but JT's foul rate has gone down considerably. He's only averaging 1.7 fouls per game, and although he's playing less minutes, it still adds up to only 1 foul every 10.1 minutes, compared to his first year in the league where he averaged 1 foul every 7.3 minutes. Hickson has been a decent rebounder this season, but his rebounding numbers are best when on the floor with either Cousins or Thompson. When neither of them are on the floor, his numbers drop considerably. Reason? Both Cousins and Thompson are fundamentally sound, block out your man rebounders. Hickson benefits from them doing a lot of the dirty work.

No easy answer at the SF position. My first choice is Cisco. Defensively he'll always give you his best effort, and he doesn't demand the ball on offense. He is in fact, a poor man's version of what we need at the SF position.
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This is totally true, which is why I loved the idea of Garcia starting at the 2 with Evans during his rookie year.. Back when Garcia was better, quicker, and could handle the ball more than he does now. There was a time where he was kind of the backup point guard for us... or I suppose the better way to put it is point-forward. I think he is worse now, but I guess it is hard to say for sure without him getting consistent minutes. And now we have Thornton, which pushes Garcia over to the 3... so its a slightly worse fit, but I agree with your point 100%.

The ideal SF on this team is basically a better more consistent version of Francisco Garcia... which is why I have such high hopes for Tyler Honeycutt.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#32
#32
MassachusettsKingsFan said:
This is totally true, which is why I loved the idea of Garcia starting at the 2 with Evans during his rookie year.. Back when Garcia was better, quicker, and could handle the ball more than he does now. There was a time where he was kind of the backup point guard for us... or I suppose the better way to put it is point-forward. I think he is worse now, but I guess it is hard to say for sure without him getting consistent minutes. And now we have Thornton, which pushes Garcia over to the 3... so its a slightly worse fit, but I agree with your point 100%.

The ideal SF on this team is basically a better more consistent version of Francisco Garcia... which is why I have such high hopes for Tyler Honeycutt.
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If Cisco does nothing more than make the game a little easier for our 3 main kids, pass them the ball, and hit a couple of threes, he'll suffice as an upgrade in fit if not talent.
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#35
#35
bajaden said:
The first change I would make is to replace Hickson with Thompson. JT is at the moment the most efficient offensive player we have shooting 56.9% from the floor overall. Versus Hickson whose shooting 36.8% overall, which is terrible for a perimiter player, much less a PF. JT's biggest flaw this season so far is his freethrow shooting, which in the past has been decent, so one has to think its an abberation. Both JT's and Hickson's rebounding numbers are at their highest when on the floor with Cousins.

Although some of you haven't bothered to notice, but JT's foul rate has gone down considerably. He's only averaging 1.7 fouls per game, and although he's playing less minutes, it still adds up to only 1 foul every 10.1 minutes, compared to his first year in the league where he averaged 1 foul every 7.3 minutes. Hickson has been a decent rebounder this season, but his rebounding numbers are best when on the floor with either Cousins or Thompson. When neither of them are on the floor, his numbers drop considerably. Reason? Both Cousins and Thompson are fundamentally sound, block out your man rebounders. Hickson benefits from them doing a lot of the dirty work.

No easy answer at the SF position. My first choice is Cisco. Defensively he'll always give you his best effort, and he doesn't demand the ball on offense. He is in fact, a poor man's version of what we need at the SF position.
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Thompson has improved. He should get more minutes. But the first change? That's down the totem pole in priority imo. This team is gawdawful in assist/to.
 
P

pshn80

Starter
#36
#36
Spike said:
This. If they jell, our future looks promising. We're already in the crapper, might as well see how a lineup of:

Evans
Thornton
Donte
JT
Cousins

shakes out. I think it could be our best one moving forward - potentially. That depends on how much time this unit gets together, as you have 3 scorers in Evans, Thornton, and Cousins, and 2 glue guys in Greene and Thompson. You also have a really long and athletic lineup. It's up to Donte to play up to potential, NOW.
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I like it but it doesn't address one of our big problems - ball movement up top by our two guards. To address that i suggest a slight alteration to your lineup -----

Evans
Garcia
Donte
Thompson
Cousins

If we did that we might find we have some awfully good off-the-bench players in Thornton, Salmons and Hickson. Just maybe.
 
P

pshn80

Starter
#37
#37
Posta Boy X said:
Ummm....MEMO! umm.. It doesn't matter how much you jerk around the lineups on this team, the result will suck lollipops anyway.

This roster is total doo-doo. A collection of players that should never be on the same team.
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Meantime, think of something more positive than giving up.
 
gunks

gunks

Hall of Famer
#39
#39
Salmons would be tradable if GP had a clone, who happened to be GMing another team in need of some flexible pieces.

I like the Reke/Thornton/Greene/JT/Cousins lineup, I like it so much that I wont get my hopes up.

Salmons needs to be banished to the end of the bench with Outlaw. Same with JJ, who is everything I feared he would be, blackhole, low IQ havin, no D playing big. Do yall know that Cavs fans STILL think they won that trade? Even with how bad Omri has been for them? JJ might actually be alright off the bench going against second unit guys, but JT's glueguy game is a lot more likely to mesh with out starters.

Also, I know we just resigned him...But I wouldnt be upset to see Thornton traded for a PG. But thats a discussion for another thread.
 
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bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#40
#40
Kingster said:
Thompson has improved. He should get more minutes. But the first change? That's down the totem pole in priority imo. This team is gawdawful in assist/to.
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No argument there. But just having a more effecient player on the floor, and one that perhaps has a better idea of how to play team basketball is a step in the right direction, and should help in the assist dept. Thompson got two easy baskets last night that I remember and should have had another if the pass had been clean. He constantly cuts to the basket when someone with the ball is driving into the lane, giving the driver another option other than forcing up a shot. Plus JT is hands down a better defender than Hickson, who constantly leaves or loses his man.

You can afford to be terrible on offense at times as long as your defense keeps you close. But when both go south, well, you see the results.
 
Section 101

Section 101

All-Star
#41
#41
bajaden said:
The first change I would make is to replace Hickson with Thompson. JT is at the moment the most efficient offensive player we have shooting 56.9% from the floor overall. Versus Hickson whose shooting 36.8% overall, which is terrible for a perimiter player, much less a PF. JT's biggest flaw this season so far is his freethrow shooting, which in the past has been decent, so one has to think its an abberation. Both JT's and Hickson's rebounding numbers are at their highest when on the floor with Cousins.

Although some of you haven't bothered to notice, but JT's foul rate has gone down considerably. He's only averaging 1.7 fouls per game, and although he's playing less minutes, it still adds up to only 1 foul every 10.1 minutes, compared to his first year in the league where he averaged 1 foul every 7.3 minutes. Hickson has been a decent rebounder this season, but his rebounding numbers are best when on the floor with either Cousins or Thompson. When neither of them are on the floor, his numbers drop considerably. Reason? Both Cousins and Thompson are fundamentally sound, block out your man rebounders. Hickson benefits from them doing a lot of the dirty work.

No easy answer at the SF position. My first choice is Cisco. Defensively he'll always give you his best effort, and he doesn't demand the ball on offense. He is in fact, a poor man's version of what we need at the SF position.
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Going to disagree on starting Thompson. I agree with everything that you said. But you don't have to start all your best players. I think starting JT makes the bench alot weaker than it makes the starting unit better. Plus who is the starter when Hayes gets healthy? Does he start again or does JT keep it. If Hayes is the starter then you definitely keep JT in his bench role and not screw him up.
 
gunks

gunks

Hall of Famer
#42
#42
But...Who is to say JJ's production doesnt go up coming off the bench? Maybe he'd get in a groove going up against the second unit as a more premier option on offense?
 
J

JB_kings

Starter
#43
#43
Too much jerking around the lineup if you put JT out there for a few weeks and then send him back to the bench when Hayes returns.
Besides I don't think some of you understand that Smart was under Nellie for a long time. This means he probably isn't in love with big power lineups. He's more likely to play Donte at PF then to bring his backup center off the bench to start at PF.
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#44
#44
How about:

IT - point
Thornton - 2
Tyreke - 3
Thompson - 4
Cousins - 5.

Do something different. Garcia at 3 is as old as a smelly shoe. The 5 players above are the best we have imo.

Make another team match up with you, rather than the other way around.
 
S

spudfan

Starter
#45
#45
Kingster said:
How about:

IT - point
Thornton - 2
Tyreke - 3
Thompson - 4
Cousins - 5.

Do something different. Garcia at 3 is as old as a smelly shoe. The 5 players above are the best we have imo.

Make another team match up with you, rather than the other way around.
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You think IT should be getting the same playtime as Thornon and Tyreke? He is descent enough coming off the bench but I don't ever see him being a fulltime starter in the NBA.
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#46
#46
spudfan said:
You think IT should be getting the same playtime as Thornon and Tyreke? He is descent enough coming off the bench but I don't ever see him being a fulltime starter in the NBA.
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I'll say it again: IT is the MOST versatile guard the Kings have. Outside shooting, mid range, driving, assist making, nobody on this team has a more complete package.
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#48
#48
Section 101 said:
Going to disagree on starting Thompson. I agree with everything that you said. But you don't have to start all your best players. I think starting JT makes the bench alot weaker than it makes the starting unit better. Plus who is the starter when Hayes gets healthy? Does he start again or does JT keep it. If Hayes is the starter then you definitely keep JT in his bench role and not screw him up.
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I'm all for having a good player come off the bench when you have a surplus of good players at one position, but other than that, I want my best players in the starting lineup. The Starters in general get the most minutes, and I want my best players getting the most minutes. As far as Hayes goes, if for some stange reason the starting lineup clicks and we go on a 10 game winning streak (not holding my breath), then I leave it alone and let Hayes back up Cousins and let Hickson fight for minutes. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Right now, its broke!

That said, I see your point. But if anyone can recover, going from bench player to starter to back to bench player, its JT. Thats all he's done since he's been here. Thanks to our revolving door policy with coaches, and their dart board starting lineup systems.
 
Big Cuz 15

Big Cuz 15

All-Star
#49
#49
Kingster said:
How about:

IT - point
Thornton - 2
Tyreke - 3
Thompson - 4
Cousins - 5.

Do something different. Garcia at 3 is as old as a smelly shoe. The 5 players above are the best we have imo.

Make another team match up with you, rather than the other way around.
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can you imagine reke trying to stop some of the bigger forwards out there? we have a mismatch when hes at the guard position because of his size and strength. you take that away when you play him as a forward.
 
S

spudfan

Starter
#50
#50
Big Cuz 15 said:
can you imagine reke trying to stop some of the bigger forwards out there? we have a mismatch when hes at the guard position because of his size and strength. you take that away when you play him as a forward.
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Which goes against precisely what he says in the last sentence. Having Reke at PG makes other teams matchup with us.
 
Larry89

Larry89

Disgruntled Kings Fan
#52
#52
Tyreke could be a very effective point guard, sure not a pick and roll and drive and dish but he could just post up almost every play low and draw double teams and kick it out, If he took better care of the ball
 
L

Lafayette

Guest
#53
#53
PG - Thomas/Jimmer
SG - Tyreke/Thornton/Salmons
SF - Garcia/Greene/Salmons
PF - JT/Hickson
C - Cousins/Hayes

Tyreke and Thornton cannot play together at all. If you noticed last season when the team was playing well it was when Tyreke was out and Thornton was the starting SG. Thornton fits the SG role much better then Tyreke and we need either IS and JF at the point to run the offense and are pass first players.
 
ParniValjak

ParniValjak

All-Star
#54
#54
Bricklayer said:
While I would like to see it, I have considerable concerns about Smart being infected with the deadly Nellie disease and looking at Donte as just a smallball stretch PF. Like most Nellieites anybody over guard size is a center. And especially with Hayes out, he's unlikey to leave Hickson as his only big body on the bench. If he is naming a new starting SF my money is on Cisco.
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I think you might be right!

Not thrilled with the 3 guard starting line up but Cisco can at least knock down a 3 and play like a role player unlike the current version of Salmons.

We need JT back in the line up until Hayes returns. We have to many players in the starting 5 that need the ball to be effective. JT and Cisco know their role and play it that way. It creates better balance but you are right in saying that Donte at PF is worrying me. Don't like the small ball and still can't get over our off-season where we went from being one of the tallest teams out there to one of the shortest. Not the way you win in this league.
 
RookieOfTheDay

RookieOfTheDay

Starter
#55
#55
Posta Boy X said:
Ummm....MEMO! umm.. It doesn't matter how much you jerk around the lineups on this team, the result will suck lollipops anyway.

This roster is total doo-doo. A collection of players that should never be on the same team.
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Pretty much. That's why Paul Westphal was constantly changing lineups, trying to find something that isn't there. Smart has inherited the same problem now. As I've said before, I feel sorry for whoever coaches this team because they'll make any coach look bad. Nothing will change the personnel on the floor is improved.
 
P

pshn80

Starter
#56
#56
Lafayette said:
PG - Thomas/Jimmer
SG - Tyreke/Thornton/Salmons
SF - Garcia/Greene/Salmons
PF - JT/Hickson
C - Cousins/Hayes

Tyreke and Thornton cannot play together at all. If you noticed last season when the team was playing well it was when Tyreke was out and Thornton was the starting SG. Thornton fits the SG role much better then Tyreke and we need either IS and JF at the point to run the offense and are pass first players.
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OR Evans at point and Garcia at 2. I agree with you that Evans and Thornton should not start together at 1/2.
 
itzcoatl

itzcoatl

Bench
#58
#58
I'm in agreement with almost everyone here as far as JT being the starter at PF. JT is one of my favorite Kings, even if he occasionally has some bone-headed plays. JT is always hustling and working hard, and has given his all since becoming a King.

I like Garcia in the starting line-up as well. I'm a little afraid of putting him at SF. What happens when he has to guard Lebron, Carmello, or any of the bigger 3s? Garcia just doesn't have the size to guard those guys in the post. In the alternative, we could start Garcia at SG, but I wouldn't want to send Thornton to the bench.

I've been a big Donte fan, but I don't think he's really shown much improvement since coming into the league and I couldn't justify putting him in the starting lineup.
 
Capt. Factorial

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#59
#59
Lafayette said:
Tyreke and Thornton cannot play together at all. If you noticed last season when the team was playing well it was when Tyreke was out and Thornton was the starting SG.
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Umm.

For the record:
2010-2011 Kings with Thornton, without Tyreke: 4-12
2010-2011 Kings with both Thornton and Tyreke: 6-5
 
P

pshn80

Starter
#60
#60
Capt. Factorial said:
Umm.

For the record:
2010-2011 Kings with Thornton, without Tyreke: 4-12
2010-2011 Kings with both Thornton and Tyreke: 6-5
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Your stats are good but I still don't want to live with the two of them starting together. Inept ball handling and stagnation and poor shots leading to poor shooting. The two of them do it all by themselves even though that is not their intent. Let's try it. We may like it.
 
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