Trading Tyreke... Unthinkable?
- Thread starter Anthony1
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Don't trade Tyreke yet. He's too talented. Let's see how things work with Thorton, and Cousins before we decide if we need a more traditional PG to work with the core or not. I do want to see an improvement this year over last, no excuses though, or I will be riding him.. Paid a lot of money to see these Kings this year so I want to see some improvement 
Yes...all he has to do is get a DECENT jumpshot and he'll be unstoppable. A 6'6 Reke/6'3 Thornton backcourt creates incredible matchup problems in your favor against smaller backcourts, and Reke's penetration ability draws double teams that open up the wings for shots, i.e.Thornton, etc. We need to shore up our SF position for the next 5-10 years with either packaging the #7 pick with someone, or signing via free agency. A lineup with Dalembert/Cousins/Proven SF via trade-FA signing/Thornton/Evans should be pretty darn good, to go along with our bench that already has a few studs with Thompson, Udrih, Garcia, etc. I could see either one of the last 2 being involved in some sort of package deal, perhaps. The next month until draft day, and 1 month and 12 days until FA signing begins are going to be agonizing because we really don't know how Petrie will shake things up...but rest assured, he knows he has to...and I can almost guarantee he will...and in a way we least expected, too.
I keep hearing fans mention what a lineup mismatch we get with Reke and Marcus in the backcourt and I don't totally get it. A 6'6 pg and a 6'3 sg isn't that different than a 6'3 pg and a 6'6 sg. Most teams can just put a smaller pg on Marcus and let bigger/stronger sg guard Reke. It's not a weakness but I'm not getting where a big point and smaller 2 results in such a positive strength for us.
Don't know how much of Thornton's play you saw down the stretch, but he has the potential to just KILL opposing PGs, including having a strong 6'4" guard postgame that kind of reminds me of Mobley's a bit. Much as I have long coveted the 6'7" SG to stick next to Reke and make things impossible for opposing teams, the height alone is not the critical issue. Its important, but for instance if Cisco is the SG he's a much easier matchup fro a PG than is Marcus. What a small PG can't handle out of a SG is the forceefulness. Cisco is basically a jumpshooter,. and while he could shoot right over PGs, teams would live with that before they'd live with Reke steamrolling their midgets. But now Marcus, his game is very forceful. He drives hard, he posts up, he works the offensive glass. Its not the ideal pairing that frees Reke, but it is a pairing that is going to free SOMEBODY in our backcourt. You can't hide your PG on either one withotu threat of him being just physically overwhelmed, and that's kind of what you are looking for from that spot. Another reason whay I am hoping we pick up a big or strong or both SF this offseason. Closes the last hole and means that Mike Conley has to guard a guy he just cannot guard.
Its a decent general rule, but in this particular case, this basically is almost never done. Nobody trades young stars after they have already emerged as stars. Especially not on rookie contracts. If you go through the Top 30-50 players in the NBA, I don't think a single one of them was traded as a young player who had already emerged. Not one. The closest cases I can think of involved trades for all time great HOFers -- Al Jefferseon for KG, and Caron Butler/Lamar Odom for Shaq. But in none of those cases had the young guys really blossomed. 12-15ppg scorers that people thought might be good one day. Joe Johnson got traded as a rookie, but he was a 7ppg bench player at the time. Chanucey and Nash got traded, but they were both flops/nobodies at the time they did. Just nobody trades a young star who's already had a star season, especially not a rookie contract, and especially not for a bleeping draft pick. The whole point of a draft pick is to draft a young star. Once you've already got one you don't turn around and cash it back in for another draft pick. The last/only time I can ever remember that happening we were actually involved...on the other side. It was Don Nelson giving up Mitch Richmond for the #2 pick/Billy Owens. How'd that work out for him?
Its just not done. With good reason.
Its just not done. With good reason.
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Look, let me just be straight up, totally honest about Tyreke:
Tyreke to me... is a player like an Allen Iverson, or a Stephon Marbury, or a Steve Francis. A guy that can put up crazy numbers at the expense of having horrible team dynamics on offense. A guy that dominates the ball, and needs to dominate the ball to be effective. Also, I believe that Tyreke will NEVER be a "true" point guard. He can be a scoring point guard that will find his teammates on occasion, but he's not a pass first guy. I don't want a combo guard running my point, no matter how good he is at driving to the basket for layups. I want a facilitator at the point. Now, I'm not sure that Irving, Knight or Walker is the facilitator that I'm looking for either, but that's besides the point.. lol.
Now, Marcus Thornton, to me, is a diamond in the rough. If we re-sign this guy to a decent length deal (4 years min), then I really like Thornton as our 2 guard long term. Can we play Tyreke and Thornton together? We could... but it's like fitting a square peg into a round hole. It's not a smart way to go. Beno and Thornton would be a better combo. But how can you have your "Rookie of the Year", and your guy that is on a short list with Lebron and MJ and Oscar for doing the 20-5-5 thing (or whatever it was) on the bench? You can't. That's the problem. You can't. Even if it's best for the team, because Beno and Thornton would be the better combo, you can't have the Rookie of the Year coming off the bench. 7 out of 10 times you're not going to be able to use him at Small Forward either. There might be some games where he can match up well with a smaller SF, but most of the time the other SF will be able to get up over Tyreke and get his shot. So, what the hell do you do?
If Reke, Thornton and Beno are on the team heading into next year, you know it will be Reke and Thornton as the starting guards, even though it doesn't really make sense from a fundamental standpoint. Now, back to the original scenario with Irving, Knight and Walker. We end up with one of those guys, and it's even more ridiculous to keep all these guards. Somebody has to GO. Still.... Just because somebody has to go, doesn't mean you give the guy away for free. What player on the Kings has more trade value that Tyreke? Maybe Cousins, to some GM's, but Tyreke is pretty much our crown jewel. We don't need to be desperate to deal him, but I think we could get some KEY talent in here if we let him go.
And what's going to happen when he leaves? Well, I'm sure he'll have a lot of huge 30 point games, with his new team, but ultimately, I just don't see that team going far in the playoffs, unless they are able to surround him with tons of unselfish players that don't need the ball at all to make things happen. It's a hard thing to do. Look at Allen Iverson, Steve Francis and Stephon Marbury. Only once was a coach (Larry Brown), able to get the rest of his teams to totally sacrifice their games, and then the 76ers got to the Finals but lost. I just think as great a player as Tyreke is (and I'm not convinced that he's God's gift to bball), if he ultimately doesn't fit the puzzle the right way, trade him away to somebody that thinks he is God's gift to bball, and come away with some crazy talent, and maybe another 1st round pick.
And still, we are pretty much guaranteed to get either Knight or Walker. One of those guys will fall to 7. Is either better than Tyreke in pure talent? Probably not. Is either more of a pure point guard than Tyreke? Eh... a little bit. Will either of them mesh together with Marcus Thorton in the starting lineup? Eh... probably. So, I really don't see how this could be some catastrophic thing. Obviously, if we are going to trade away Tyreke, we need to come away with another player under the age of 25, that is on the verge of being a perennial all-star type player. Maybe a Small Forward or Power Forward. Or we get a player that looks like a really nice up and comer, but maybe a guy that doesn't have huge name value, along with a first rounder or two.
I'm just saying.... Let's keep our options open.
Tyreke to me... is a player like an Allen Iverson, or a Stephon Marbury, or a Steve Francis. A guy that can put up crazy numbers at the expense of having horrible team dynamics on offense. A guy that dominates the ball, and needs to dominate the ball to be effective. Also, I believe that Tyreke will NEVER be a "true" point guard. He can be a scoring point guard that will find his teammates on occasion, but he's not a pass first guy. I don't want a combo guard running my point, no matter how good he is at driving to the basket for layups. I want a facilitator at the point. Now, I'm not sure that Irving, Knight or Walker is the facilitator that I'm looking for either, but that's besides the point.. lol.
Now, Marcus Thornton, to me, is a diamond in the rough. If we re-sign this guy to a decent length deal (4 years min), then I really like Thornton as our 2 guard long term. Can we play Tyreke and Thornton together? We could... but it's like fitting a square peg into a round hole. It's not a smart way to go. Beno and Thornton would be a better combo. But how can you have your "Rookie of the Year", and your guy that is on a short list with Lebron and MJ and Oscar for doing the 20-5-5 thing (or whatever it was) on the bench? You can't. That's the problem. You can't. Even if it's best for the team, because Beno and Thornton would be the better combo, you can't have the Rookie of the Year coming off the bench. 7 out of 10 times you're not going to be able to use him at Small Forward either. There might be some games where he can match up well with a smaller SF, but most of the time the other SF will be able to get up over Tyreke and get his shot. So, what the hell do you do?
If Reke, Thornton and Beno are on the team heading into next year, you know it will be Reke and Thornton as the starting guards, even though it doesn't really make sense from a fundamental standpoint. Now, back to the original scenario with Irving, Knight and Walker. We end up with one of those guys, and it's even more ridiculous to keep all these guards. Somebody has to GO. Still.... Just because somebody has to go, doesn't mean you give the guy away for free. What player on the Kings has more trade value that Tyreke? Maybe Cousins, to some GM's, but Tyreke is pretty much our crown jewel. We don't need to be desperate to deal him, but I think we could get some KEY talent in here if we let him go.
And what's going to happen when he leaves? Well, I'm sure he'll have a lot of huge 30 point games, with his new team, but ultimately, I just don't see that team going far in the playoffs, unless they are able to surround him with tons of unselfish players that don't need the ball at all to make things happen. It's a hard thing to do. Look at Allen Iverson, Steve Francis and Stephon Marbury. Only once was a coach (Larry Brown), able to get the rest of his teams to totally sacrifice their games, and then the 76ers got to the Finals but lost. I just think as great a player as Tyreke is (and I'm not convinced that he's God's gift to bball), if he ultimately doesn't fit the puzzle the right way, trade him away to somebody that thinks he is God's gift to bball, and come away with some crazy talent, and maybe another 1st round pick.
And still, we are pretty much guaranteed to get either Knight or Walker. One of those guys will fall to 7. Is either better than Tyreke in pure talent? Probably not. Is either more of a pure point guard than Tyreke? Eh... a little bit. Will either of them mesh together with Marcus Thorton in the starting lineup? Eh... probably. So, I really don't see how this could be some catastrophic thing. Obviously, if we are going to trade away Tyreke, we need to come away with another player under the age of 25, that is on the verge of being a perennial all-star type player. Maybe a Small Forward or Power Forward. Or we get a player that looks like a really nice up and comer, but maybe a guy that doesn't have huge name value, along with a first rounder or two.
I'm just saying.... Let's keep our options open.
McGrady signed away as a free agent. And really he had not had a star season at that point either.
It occurs to me Zo Mourning was traded after his thrid year back in the 90s, but he was was swapped for another star (Glen Rice) and if I recall correctly he forced their hand. I'm reaching nearly 20 years back to find examples, because its just not done.
It occurs to me Zo Mourning was traded after his thrid year back in the 90s, but he was was swapped for another star (Glen Rice) and if I recall correctly he forced their hand. I'm reaching nearly 20 years back to find examples, because its just not done.
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I'd trade Tyreke for:
LeBron James , MIA
Dwight Howard , ORL
Blake Griffin , LAC
Kevin Durant , OKC
Derrick Rose , CHI
Chris Paul , NOH
Russell Westbrook , OKC
and *maybe* for:
Dwyane Wade , MIA
Kevin Love, MN
John Wall , WAS
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I'd also only make these trades if I can get a 4yr+ guarantee out of these guys. uffice to say, we're not trading Tyreke.
LeBron James , MIA
Dwight Howard , ORL
Blake Griffin , LAC
Kevin Durant , OKC
Derrick Rose , CHI
Chris Paul , NOH
Russell Westbrook , OKC
and *maybe* for:
Dwyane Wade , MIA
Kevin Love, MN
John Wall , WAS
---
I'd also only make these trades if I can get a 4yr+ guarantee out of these guys. uffice to say, we're not trading Tyreke.
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