I live in the OC and close to Anaheim...
- Thread starter Block Party
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IMO, there are two kinds of fans.
The local fans who have grown attached to their home team and become to love them to death.
The others are fans from different cities, states, and countries who fell in love with the Kings for who they were and the way they played...and never abandoned them.
If the Kings fans in Sacramento lived in Montana for example....would they be fans today? Majority wouldn't and it's completely understandable.
I became a fan of the Kings while I was in Los Angeles and am still in L.A. To me, the Kings are more than the roster they possess. ARCO arena was the Kings. The fans of Sacramento were the Kings. The Maloofs, the atmosphere, the city, etc.
I personally want the Kings to stay in Sacramento. Yes, the Kings would be closer to me in Anaheim, but to me they will lose some of the soul that they possessed as the Sacramento Kings. I will still be a fan, whether they are the Kings, Royals, or any other name, but the excitement will never ever be the same for me.
The local fans who have grown attached to their home team and become to love them to death.
The others are fans from different cities, states, and countries who fell in love with the Kings for who they were and the way they played...and never abandoned them.
If the Kings fans in Sacramento lived in Montana for example....would they be fans today? Majority wouldn't and it's completely understandable.
I became a fan of the Kings while I was in Los Angeles and am still in L.A. To me, the Kings are more than the roster they possess. ARCO arena was the Kings. The fans of Sacramento were the Kings. The Maloofs, the atmosphere, the city, etc.
I personally want the Kings to stay in Sacramento. Yes, the Kings would be closer to me in Anaheim, but to me they will lose some of the soul that they possessed as the Sacramento Kings. I will still be a fan, whether they are the Kings, Royals, or any other name, but the excitement will never ever be the same for me.
I don't get it. The franchise has been trying to get an arena deal done for over a decade now. That includes periods of time when the team was good and it was economically palatable to do something. No dice. They play in -- according to NBA players -- the most outdated facility in the league. With a month and a half left, they have sold out two games. What are they supposed to do, just accept that they'll never get an arena deal done and live with it?
If the Maloofs really wanted to move the team, they could have done so a long time ago. If they didn't care about the fans, they could have sold the team to someone with zero Sacramento ties, knowing full well the team would be moved within a year, like Herb Kohl did.
I can understand not being a fan anymore. But the bitter contempt toward the team, I don't get. All indications are that they want to stay. But without a viable arena solution, can you blame them for considering a move? I just think its unfair. Orlando blinks and puts up the nicest arena in the NBA, seemingly overnight. I guess my question is this: What are the Maloofs supposed to do?
If the Maloofs really wanted to move the team, they could have done so a long time ago. If they didn't care about the fans, they could have sold the team to someone with zero Sacramento ties, knowing full well the team would be moved within a year, like Herb Kohl did.
I can understand not being a fan anymore. But the bitter contempt toward the team, I don't get. All indications are that they want to stay. But without a viable arena solution, can you blame them for considering a move? I just think its unfair. Orlando blinks and puts up the nicest arena in the NBA, seemingly overnight. I guess my question is this: What are the Maloofs supposed to do?
Orlando might not be the best example. The team handed over $50M up front, and guaranteed $100M worth of constructon bonds. The bonds have been downgraded to "junk" status, and there are troubling questions about how/whether it's all going to work out. Not encouraging in a place that only opened months ago. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amway_Center#Debt_Problems
Let me just say that if they had left anytime between 04 and 08 I'd probably have been very upset but given them some kind of pass. But for the first time in ages they finally have a city leader stridently trying to make this happen for them and they have a developer with international experience trying to work something out. They are working very hard and I think at the end of this 90 day window we can conclusively say one way or another if Sacramento ever has a chance to make this happen.
So openly flirting with another city, not only another city but a city in our rival region, while the last-ditch but perhaps best effort in years is ongoing, and apparently blowing off the developer's requests when timing is of the essence, it just feels like a slap in the face. The NBA could have made an exception here and told the Maloofs privately that if the feasibility study came back with major hurdles or a no confidence report the Kings were free to file relocation papers. Anaheim isn't going anywhere between now and May.
Something just doesn't smell right about the way this is going down and I think that is why so many (myself included) are hurt, angry and confused.
So openly flirting with another city, not only another city but a city in our rival region, while the last-ditch but perhaps best effort in years is ongoing, and apparently blowing off the developer's requests when timing is of the essence, it just feels like a slap in the face. The NBA could have made an exception here and told the Maloofs privately that if the feasibility study came back with major hurdles or a no confidence report the Kings were free to file relocation papers. Anaheim isn't going anywhere between now and May.
Something just doesn't smell right about the way this is going down and I think that is why so many (myself included) are hurt, angry and confused.
They are considering other options that were presented to them. What were they supposed to do? An yes Anaheim will be there in May. They got an extension to April 18. That's plenty of time for Taylor, and at the end of the day, they have been doing this for years now. If they were set on leaving, why get an extension? Why not just file ?
And yes they have a mayor who wants to get a deal done, but they aren't dumb. KJ can't get this deal done just because he wants to.
It just seems painfully obvious to me that they want to say in Sacramento. And I think that if they didn't care, they would sell the Kings and let a new owner figure it out (which translates to moving the team). Being upset that they leave is one thing, but directing that at the Maloofs seems misplaced. Like I said, I don't know what fans would have them do. They haven't made a decision yet. They have provided the information they were asked to provide. They have been fighting this for over a decade. It seems to me that some are going to hate the team if they leave no matter what, and that's why I'm asking what they should do other than look at other options.
And yes they have a mayor who wants to get a deal done, but they aren't dumb. KJ can't get this deal done just because he wants to.
It just seems painfully obvious to me that they want to say in Sacramento. And I think that if they didn't care, they would sell the Kings and let a new owner figure it out (which translates to moving the team). Being upset that they leave is one thing, but directing that at the Maloofs seems misplaced. Like I said, I don't know what fans would have them do. They haven't made a decision yet. They have provided the information they were asked to provide. They have been fighting this for over a decade. It seems to me that some are going to hate the team if they leave no matter what, and that's why I'm asking what they should do other than look at other options.
I certainly hope you are right about Maloofs wanting to stay. You could even convince me that it is a good thing that they're exploring other options just to put pressure on Sacramento to come up with a deal fast and that that is a good thing. As long as they're in Sacramento they have my unwavering loyalty. But if they bail, well you saw my previous post.
There will always be a "worst arena in the league". There will always be shiny new arena that makes all other arenas look plain. There will always be cities willing to throw themselves at teams looking to bail. I just draw a line where my loyalty ends and in some cases, I reserve a special kind of animosity for teams that move. This would be such a case.
There were so many different initiatives over the years that I cannot believe it is so one sided and that all deals fell through because of everyone other then MSE. And Sacramento is almost perfect NBA city - small enough for an NBA franchise to have monopoly on sports event dollars, big enough to support a team. Like Portland. Or Milwaukee.
On the flip side, much, much bigger franchises have taken bum deals just to get a stadium/renovation deal. Chicago Bears are charter member of NFL, hell Halas pretty much founded NFL, in the 3rd largest Market in USA (and World's 18th largest economy at one time) and they got such a bum deal on new Soldier Field that Forbes is knocking them down on value to a Tampa Bay level (to get a stadium renovation and development, they gave up bunch of revenue, whole streams of it). And all they had to do to get _everything_ was to move to the suburbs of Chicago. Like 25 miles tops. And for every example like Sonics there is an example of owners giving something up or paying their way to stay in their community.
So, I don't want to hear it about Maloofs not getting a deal or running out of time. They sure don't look like they would sell to get out from "under it".
There will always be a "worst arena in the league". There will always be shiny new arena that makes all other arenas look plain. There will always be cities willing to throw themselves at teams looking to bail. I just draw a line where my loyalty ends and in some cases, I reserve a special kind of animosity for teams that move. This would be such a case.
There were so many different initiatives over the years that I cannot believe it is so one sided and that all deals fell through because of everyone other then MSE. And Sacramento is almost perfect NBA city - small enough for an NBA franchise to have monopoly on sports event dollars, big enough to support a team. Like Portland. Or Milwaukee.
On the flip side, much, much bigger franchises have taken bum deals just to get a stadium/renovation deal. Chicago Bears are charter member of NFL, hell Halas pretty much founded NFL, in the 3rd largest Market in USA (and World's 18th largest economy at one time) and they got such a bum deal on new Soldier Field that Forbes is knocking them down on value to a Tampa Bay level (to get a stadium renovation and development, they gave up bunch of revenue, whole streams of it). And all they had to do to get _everything_ was to move to the suburbs of Chicago. Like 25 miles tops. And for every example like Sonics there is an example of owners giving something up or paying their way to stay in their community.
So, I don't want to hear it about Maloofs not getting a deal or running out of time. They sure don't look like they would sell to get out from "under it".
Whatever, I've been a die-hard Kings fan since I started watching basketball. I'm from San Diego, but was a fan while in high school. Went to school at UC Davis and probably watched 95% of every Kings game up there. Just because I relocated to the OC doesn't make me any less of a fan than any of you.
Yeah and I've been watching the games since I was 8 and went to multiple games with my mom over the last 6 years since I was 13. You can follow this stupid team down there if you want, but I will hope they lose every single game they ever play down there and I'll never root for them again. This team will be dead to me. And anyone who is trying to promote this Anaheim BS is just rubbing salt in the wound right now that we are about to have our team ripped away from us, that none of us will ever be able to take our children or future children to games in Sac and the team we love is gone as we know it. It's not the same and it never will be. I don't care where you went to college, they have a totally different meaning to me than they do to you.
1) So the only way it can true that the Maloofs want to stay has to be that they don't leave, right? That's hogwash. The Kings have been trying to get a deal done for years. Could have sold. Could have moved. Its been over a decade. None of that counts?
2) Oh and if they really want a deal done to stay in Sacramento, they could always just take a bad deal from the city, even though the city would use the building three times as much and generate less than half the revenue. The same city that has steadfastly refused to get a deal done, through wildy varying circumstances. The Bears, in a different league and a team that probably clears 25 million in profit every season and sells out every game, took a bad deal from Chicago, so the Kings and every other team should do the same for their community? Even though the community leaders have all but told them to forget about a new arena several times? Again, unfair.
3) On top of that, the way I remember it is that the city was always insistent that the Maloofs fund the whole project independently.
4) Don't take this personally, but communities like to claim ownership of a team, but don't want to be bothered with the funding issues when a new arena is necessary. So a team that moves gets the ill will of the city forever, even though the city refused to get the arena done -- for years. Its like the Baltimore Colts. 30 yeas later, the city has a new team and has won a championship, but they still hate the Colts. Doesn't make sense to me. If you want to keep the team, and they need an arena, don't try to seize the team from the owner.
At a certain point, its time for a decision to be made. This was always a possibility. The city hasn't responded for over a decade, and now its the team and ownership just itching to flee the town? Then why didn't they leave five years ago?
Like I said, I get not being a fan anymore. But I don't get the hatred. Seems incredibly misplaced.
2) Oh and if they really want a deal done to stay in Sacramento, they could always just take a bad deal from the city, even though the city would use the building three times as much and generate less than half the revenue. The same city that has steadfastly refused to get a deal done, through wildy varying circumstances. The Bears, in a different league and a team that probably clears 25 million in profit every season and sells out every game, took a bad deal from Chicago, so the Kings and every other team should do the same for their community? Even though the community leaders have all but told them to forget about a new arena several times? Again, unfair.
3) On top of that, the way I remember it is that the city was always insistent that the Maloofs fund the whole project independently.
4) Don't take this personally, but communities like to claim ownership of a team, but don't want to be bothered with the funding issues when a new arena is necessary. So a team that moves gets the ill will of the city forever, even though the city refused to get the arena done -- for years. Its like the Baltimore Colts. 30 yeas later, the city has a new team and has won a championship, but they still hate the Colts. Doesn't make sense to me. If you want to keep the team, and they need an arena, don't try to seize the team from the owner.
At a certain point, its time for a decision to be made. This was always a possibility. The city hasn't responded for over a decade, and now its the team and ownership just itching to flee the town? Then why didn't they leave five years ago?
Like I said, I get not being a fan anymore. But I don't get the hatred. Seems incredibly misplaced.
There is rarely any middle ground in these things though. If your bf/gf leaves you, you either stay friends or hope that he/she is miserable forever and catches 9 different venereal diseases from whoever they left you for. You don't go whistling down the street with a shrug unless they never mattered to you in the first place.
I feel bad for Sacramentans. I was going to take issue with the "ripped away" stance, but really, that's what would be happening. But I don't think its the stupid team, I think its the stupid city leadership and the citizens who fail to understand what the team means to the community and what a new arena would do for it.
What's really BS is the notion that the stupid team just can't wait to leave. There's been two sellouts all season. Where are the fans?
No, its the stupid team. That's just wild to me.
What's really BS is the notion that the stupid team just can't wait to leave. There's been two sellouts all season. Where are the fans?
No, its the stupid team. That's just wild to me.
The thing is this deal on the table now feels like the most serious, realistic shot that has ever even been proposed and the Maloofs don't appear to want any part of it. It feels like their mind has been made up, considering how long shot of a deal the convergence plan was that they and Stern hand selected it makes you wonder if they picked a plan to fail so they could have a viable excuse to leave without looking like bad guys never anticipating that the city would finally be all in and bring in a developer from outside the region that actually has an honest to god's clue what they are doing.
Why couldn't the NBA give the full 90 days on the extension? Why are they sending all the signals that they are good as gone before even turning over the materials Taylor-ICON has requested?
It really doesn't seem fair to give blame current leadership for the faults of their predecessors but 'tis the American way.
Why couldn't the NBA give the full 90 days on the extension? Why are they sending all the signals that they are good as gone before even turning over the materials Taylor-ICON has requested?
It really doesn't seem fair to give blame current leadership for the faults of their predecessors but 'tis the American way.
Yeah, I feel really bad for Sacramentans and the City of Sacramento, even though it seems like they might have collectively dug their own grave. While I would prefer for the Kings to remain in Sacramento myself, I was just trying to say that if they were to move to Anaheim, they would do quite well.
I understand what you're saying, but there's always gonna be a new plan on the table as long as nothing gets approved. How many times have the Maloofs thrown their support behind a plan only to see it go down? Its been years.
As far as getting Taylor/ICON what they wanted, didn't they? They didn't get it to them the day KJ wanted them to, but big whoop. They could have just said "screw it, we're gone," rather than stick around. Now Taylor has the info, so its a moot point. I think perhaps the Maloofs were as good as gone, which is why I keep wondering why everyone is so mad at them. All indications were that they were filing, and they didn't. It was their choice to ask for an extension. Why doesn't that matter?
And the NBA didn't give them 90 days because the CBA expires July 1. At a certain point other business needs to either be resolved or tabled.
And no I don't think that current city leadership is totally to blame, but this isn't a couple of yeara that this has been going on. Unfortunately for Sacramento, the people that were in there before had no interest in making something happen. And the people in there now have, to this point, been incapable.
Either way, even if the Maloofs wait the Taylor thing out, some local fans will hate them even if there's no way that deal will work. Its just gonna be "you stole our team from us, now burn in hell." I don't think that's right. You're rationalizing it now, but I think your reasons are kind of weak. And even if they weren't , some wouldn't care. It doesn't matter to them whether Arco is suitable or not, whether the team gets less than 80 percent attendance, etc. If the Kings leave, the Maloofs are evil. That's bogus.
As far as getting Taylor/ICON what they wanted, didn't they? They didn't get it to them the day KJ wanted them to, but big whoop. They could have just said "screw it, we're gone," rather than stick around. Now Taylor has the info, so its a moot point. I think perhaps the Maloofs were as good as gone, which is why I keep wondering why everyone is so mad at them. All indications were that they were filing, and they didn't. It was their choice to ask for an extension. Why doesn't that matter?
And the NBA didn't give them 90 days because the CBA expires July 1. At a certain point other business needs to either be resolved or tabled.
And no I don't think that current city leadership is totally to blame, but this isn't a couple of yeara that this has been going on. Unfortunately for Sacramento, the people that were in there before had no interest in making something happen. And the people in there now have, to this point, been incapable.
Either way, even if the Maloofs wait the Taylor thing out, some local fans will hate them even if there's no way that deal will work. Its just gonna be "you stole our team from us, now burn in hell." I don't think that's right. You're rationalizing it now, but I think your reasons are kind of weak. And even if they weren't , some wouldn't care. It doesn't matter to them whether Arco is suitable or not, whether the team gets less than 80 percent attendance, etc. If the Kings leave, the Maloofs are evil. That's bogus.
Right but I think everyone is aknowledging that this is the last and final chance, except apparently the Maloofs who appear to have their minds made up already. So while many of us accept that if this fails they will move and won't hold it against them, the fact that it feels like the Maloofs themselves are torpedoing it is what calls everything into question.
I don't blame the ownership. No one has actually even entered into serious negotiations with them over the years. Not only that, but they know all 4 developers have said likely $200 million in government financing of some sort will be needed. Taylor/ICON said the odds of success are not good. The Maloofs have seen a number of proposals go nowhere. What is there that indicates there's going to be a proposal that works and goes forward? Who can blame them for doubting?
I'd like to hear what Taylor/ICON says, but it doesn't mean anything even if they offer up some possibly scenarios that might work. The city would still have to show a majority vote on going forward with funding sources and that can take acouple more years.
I lay the blame squarely in the lap of Sacramentans. To me, it isn't that I expect Sacramento to turn into a "world class" city, whatever that means. I just get mad that Sacramento always sets the bar so low. It's like getting a "D" on a report card and patting yourself on the back for it or saying you don't want any higher grade, because it takes to much thinking and effort.
I still have a teeny shred of hope left, but not much. The Kings leaving Sacramento is going to leave my heart crushed for a long time.
I'd like to hear what Taylor/ICON says, but it doesn't mean anything even if they offer up some possibly scenarios that might work. The city would still have to show a majority vote on going forward with funding sources and that can take acouple more years.
I lay the blame squarely in the lap of Sacramentans. To me, it isn't that I expect Sacramento to turn into a "world class" city, whatever that means. I just get mad that Sacramento always sets the bar so low. It's like getting a "D" on a report card and patting yourself on the back for it or saying you don't want any higher grade, because it takes to much thinking and effort.
I still have a teeny shred of hope left, but not much. The Kings leaving Sacramento is going to leave my heart crushed for a long time.
I think maybe they did have their minds made up already. In which case, they were probably going to file March 1. They didn't. Don't they get credit for that? I think the fan response on Monday helped them delay their decision, and at the end of the day, maybe that's enough to give Taylor/ICON a few more weeks. But they've given Sacramento a few more years already. The idea that they're torpedoeing the deal doesn't hold water with me. They could have filed already.