A least there is progress this year, slowly but progress

CruzDude

Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
#1
Sure it's frustrating the Kings are not winning more games. Last year they started nearly 500 after 20 games or so then then went in the tank for the rest of the year with no real progress other than the 20-5-5 for Tyreke the ROY. That however, was a short lived benefit once the league figured out how to defend Tyreke and he failed for 15-18 games to make any compensation in his game. That has happened now or rather is happening. One piece of progress. Now for the rest of the starters to step up and move and create more.

Injuries are part of the game but when a team is as young and inexperienced as the Kings they are much less able to make up the difference, right away at least. But that is also changing slowly.

In the past 6 or 7 games the Kings were in position to win all but one of them but faltered in the last 3-10 minutes of each game. Some games were great first quarters then nothing, playing as if they were dead tired and had no extra push for the second half. Then they played a couple of really good first halves. Then 3 quarters and even a couple of 3-1/2 quarter good games faltering in the final minutes.

Young, inexperienced players of the caliber the Kings have take a longer time to learn those intricacies of the NBA game. Once they realize and can put into play how to coast in the first half and stay close then turn it on in the second they will begin to win some games, then more games.

JT has made some really good progress when he plays about 15 min a half. Same for Omri who has become a stop down defender a good percentage of the time. Jeter has finally been used as the spark plug and it has help the team progress more. Then there is Cousins. Finally the last game he gets the big minutes when he learns how not to make the silly and unnecessary fouls in the first half to get him more minutes. He is a rookie with only one year on a great college team so will need this year and next to step up to the top level of the bigs and centers in the league..... if he gets and keeps control of his fouling.

THen there is Donte, the rainbow man. Plays like any color of the rainbow in an stint in any game. Sometimes scores bunches, then nothing, sometimes does knock down defending then not much, sometimes controls his 3's then not, and on and on. Mr. Inconsistency. The talent is there and he may just be a slower learner than others.

Progress is a team thing. A hustle thing, energy and getting after the other team, upping the defensive intensity in the second half and 4th quarter. Not there yet but slowing coming.

Maybe it is a coaching thing not pushing or getting the increased intensity in the second half especially in the fourth quarter. That might be Westphals' personality. Now if it were Mario Elie or Coach Eyen, we might see more fire from all that youth especially late in games. That is their personalities. What do our kids need: guiding hand and patience, or a bit of fear and intensity management? :confused: I'd go for the later with this group.
 

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
#7
Last year we had a great isolation scoring guard and not much else. This year we have a beast of a post player and a great isolation scoring guard. Progress. Early this year we were getting blown out of games before the fourth quarter even began. Now we're giving up leads or hanging in there until crunch time and then completely falling apart. Frustrating, but still progress. You don't measure improvement entirely in wins and losses. This team is going to get better when our young players get better and I agree with CruzDude that they have been playing better lately even if we don't have the wins to show for it. Worst-case scenario is not a last place finish and another lottery pick. Worst-case scenario for us is blowing it up now and trading our young talent for aging veterans with big contracts. If we do nothing but stay on the path we're already on we're pretty much guaranteed to get better.

...and then when we do get back to the playoffs you can worry about whether your coach is going to coach you out of close games that you need to win. Right now player development is what matters.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#8
So last year into 30 something games we had a record of what? 15-17 or something in that area? This year we don't even have double digit wins, we regressed. There is not much progress at this point other than Cousins turning into our best player, slowly but surely.
 
#9
Last year we had a great isolation scoring guard and not much else. This year we have a beast of a post player and a great isolation scoring guard. Progress. Early this year we were getting blown out of games before the fourth quarter even began. Now we're giving up leads or hanging in there until crunch time and then completely falling apart. Frustrating, but still progress. You don't measure improvement entirely in wins and losses. This team is going to get better when our young players get better and I agree with CruzDude that they have been playing better lately even if we don't have the wins to show for it. Worst-case scenario is not a last place finish and another lottery pick. Worst-case scenario for us is blowing it up now and trading our young talent for aging veterans with big contracts. If we do nothing but stay on the path we're already on we're pretty much guaranteed to get better.

...and then when we do get back to the playoffs you can worry about whether your coach is going to coach you out of close games that you need to win. Right now player development is what matters.
So we progressed because we drafted Cousins? No wonder you think we're progressing again, because we're bound to get another top 5 pick at this rate! ;)
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#10
So as long as we're close for 3 quarters, and then get blown out the 4th, that counts as progress?
In a way it does. the finsal scors of these game are a litle deceptive. We are right there playing with these teams now, and not only that, but with Cousins coming on we are starting to develop a pattern, a structure, that we can use to play wiht these teams going forward. Now clearly we have maybe the bigges confidence/composure issues in the league when it comes time to win. But we don't look outclassed against these teams now. We just look unready to seal the deal. Its progress. Not recordwise. But its progress.

And yes, drafting Cousins, and now seeing the talent he has, was absaolutely a major step just as drafting Reke was.
 

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
#11
So we progressed because we drafted Cousins? No wonder you think we're progressing again, because we're bound to get another top 5 pick at this rate! ;)
I'm just saying, look at the big picture. You need a post threat to win in the NBA. How do you get one? Last year you could have signed Boozer or Bosh but the guy who potentially was the best one available could only be acquired through the draft. And the other two may or may not perform well enough to justify the cost. Obviously you don't want to have such an extended period of suckage that you're in the lottery every single year but dipping down there for three or four years in a row is completely normal in the NBA. If it's in the top 5 that's even better. That means you're going to be improving your team a lot faster.

I'd go further and say it's actually the only repeatable way to rebuild a winning team. Orlando was dismal and then they drafted Dwight Howard. Same with Cleveland and Lebron. You have to be in the right place at the right time to sign a major free agent. The truly game-changing ones are only available every 4 or 5 years possibly and then you have to plan ahead and structure your salary cap to even be in position to make an offer. You have to be in the right place at the right time to draft one too but if you're not in one of the top 5 positions come draft day you're not even in the game.

After this season we will be in position to give someone a max contract. Whether anyone who is worth that kind of money will even be available is another matter, but at least we have the option. We may also be in position to get another chance at drafting an elite talent. Big picture says that's one losing season in exchange for the chance to maybe add two game changing talents. Big picture says the next 5-10 years matter more than the second half of this season. Obviously when the season starts you hope for the most wins you can get. Looking at 5-20, reality says this season is already over and seeing your players get better matters more than winning the rest of this season. Now you just want to put yourself in the best possible position to win every game next season.
 
#13
Are you sure that's progress? And not just other teams taking the night off until their coaches tell them to wake up?
This I think.

On another note, this may be the poorest passing team I have ever seen. It's almost like they think that passing to a teammate is now ruled a violation/TO.

The Kings of 10 years ago were one of the best passing teams I had ever seen in the league and that has now come a full 180 degrees.

It is very difficult to watch.
 
#14
This I think.

On another note, this may be the poorest passing team I have ever seen. It's almost like they think that passing to a teammate is now ruled a violation/TO.

The Kings of 10 years ago were one of the best passing teams I had ever seen in the league and that has now come a full 180 degrees.

It is very difficult to watch.

There is no I in the word team.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#16
Let's all whine. Whine. Whine. Whine.

If you haven't been able to see the recent progression in our team, I'd suggest you'd look a little closer. DeMarcus is growing before our eyes and if you pair him with a Reke who's feet aren't falling off and a coach that is capable of spelling his own name, you'd have a good foundation for years to come.
 
#17
Let's all whine. Whine. Whine. Whine.

If you haven't been able to see the recent progression in our team, I'd suggest you'd look a little closer. DeMarcus is growing before our eyes and if you pair him with a Reke who's feet aren't falling off and a coach that is capable of spelling his own name, you'd have a good foundation for years to come.
The sky is falling but I gotta give you credit at pointing out the positives. DeMarcus does look better each night and we already know what Evans is capable of.
 
#18
This I think.

On another note, this may be the poorest passing team I have ever seen. It's almost like they think that passing to a teammate is now ruled a violation/TO.

The Kings of 10 years ago were one of the best passing teams I had ever seen in the league and that has now come a full 180 degrees.

It is very difficult to watch.
Guess that's what happens when you trade your soft finesse concept for a tough physical one. The talent level in passing is also different, just compare the some of the guys then and now. Hawes/Divac/Miller VS Dalembert/RookieCousins. Webber VS Landry. Bibby/JWill VS Evans/Beno. Soft guys like to pass and shoot well because they don't like to get physical down low or drive and all. If Tyreke were afraid of contact he'd pass a lot more too.
 
L

LWP777

Guest
#20
I completely disagree with the OP. We have not made progress this year. In fact, this year has been a complete and total disaster. We have no cohesion as a team. Besides Cousins, all of our young guys have gone backwards in their development.
 
#21
I think the OP is right, the Kings have been progressing this season, particularly of late. Team play is better until we break down at the end. We have been in more games. The attitude displayed by the team defies our posters that say Westphal must go, Landry must go, Beno is good, Beno is bad, etc., etc. They are playing hard. They do show comraderie on the floor.

These views of mine were confirmed again last night. I was at the game, the Kings played well from the start until they collapsed at the end. It was an enjoyable experience. Earlier this season i was a couple of games that were not enjoyable. They are getting better. Don't get rid of Westphal, I like him. Don't get rid of Landry. He is getting his thing back and may make it yet.

We had a bad team last year. It didn't do well. The team was worse to start this year mainly because it got younger and less experienced. We started in a deep hole this season and, now, we are beginning to dig our way out. Right now we may be as good as last year, I'm hopeful.

When are we going to have a better than .500 team? Are you kidding? We will have to be patient for a while to reach .400. Maybe in a couple of years. But we are improving.
 
#22
I think the OP is right, the Kings have been progressing this season...
These views of mine were confirmed again last night. I was at the game...
Did you leave before the 4th or something? We gave up another close game and are now 5-20. How this is progress from a year ago (where we'd occassionally hold onto a lead) is beyond me.
 
#24
Did you read the post?
I did, I read the whole thing and edited the part of it where I think you were being slightly contradictionary. (not entirely fair i suppose but it highlighted my point.) You did acknowledge that they give up leads late in the game but you agree that they are improving as a whole. If you were at the game last night you got to experience first-hand another exciting Westfailure. BTW we are 5-20 and we lose nearly every winnable game by giving up catastrophically in the end. We are currently the worst team in the league. How is this an improvement as a whole? Individually, sure there are some positives. Tyreke's jumper, Cousin's emergence and growth but they are marred by the huge pile of L's in the W/L column. I know I tend to be a bit negative but if we're going to remain content with this and not let this team know the fans are fed up then touche Maloofs.
 
K

Kingsguy881

Guest
#25
You know what? We used to tout ourselves as the best fans in the league, but listening to you guys all ***** and moan and act like spoiled babies makes me realize that we have, in fact, the WORST fans in the league. I'm so ashamed to call myself a Kings fan right now, and it's not because of the team or its record. It's because of you guys. There absolutely is a silver lining in all of this. DeMarcus Cousins coming of age. Tyreke's struggles and his ability to fight the adversity. Casspi learning his role and expanding his game. Donte Greene figuring out what he needs to do to be effective and trying to learn consistency. JT fighting adversity to overcome a slow start. I'm not giving up on my team. I'm glad Cruzdude posted this. You guys are all exposed.
 
#26
I agree that Cousins is improving with every game. I am concerned with Reke though. I am not sure what's up, but I wonder if he may be uninspired now that he is playing sg at times. The games are hard to watch, but because it's the kings, I could still never miss one. I think the progression has taken a step backwards.
 
#27
You know what? We used to tout ourselves as the best fans in the league, but listening to you guys all ***** and moan and act like spoiled babies makes me realize that we have, in fact, the WORST fans in the league. I'm so ashamed to call myself a Kings fan right now, and it's not because of the team or its record. It's because of you guys. There absolutely is a silver lining in all of this. DeMarcus Cousins coming of age. Tyreke's struggles and his ability to fight the adversity. Casspi learning his role and expanding his game. Donte Greene figuring out what he needs to do to be effective and trying to learn consistency. JT fighting adversity to overcome a slow start. I'm not giving up on my team. I'm glad Cruzdude posted this. You guys are all exposed.
Yes because us being frustrated about our team being a cellar-dweller with a brain-dead coach for the third year in a row isn't reasonable. How dare you call fans that are complaining the worst. The reason I still watch every game is because of your aforementioned "silver-linings." The reason we are bitching and moaning is because we want to see our team progress and there is very little action being taken by the Front Office. The fact that you are content with failure after failure is alarming. I think people SHOULD be upset and calling for Westphal's head right now. By the way, the majority of posters disagree with Cruzdude and his positive spin on our season and that's our right it's nothing personal.
 
K

Kingsguy881

Guest
#28
Yes because us being frustrated about our team being a cellar-dweller with a brain-dead coach for the third year in a row isn't reasonable. How dare you call fans that are complaining the worst. The reason I still watch every game is because of your aforementioned "silver-linings." The reason we are bitching and moaning is because we want to see our team progress and there is very little action being taken by the Front Office. The fact that you are content with failure after failure is alarming. I think people SHOULD be upset and calling for Westphal's head right now. By the way, the majority of posters disagree with Cruzdude and his positive spin on our season and that's our right it's nothing personal.
Yeah, because calling for Westphal's head is going to solve everything lol. Yeah, the team sucks, but I went through a decade worth of them being just as bad. This is promise. What went on back then was sheer ridiculousness. And yet the fans remained loyal. They still cheered for their team and hoped for the best. This new crop of fans aided by the internet is just terrible if you ask me. I'm 31 y/o and I cannot believe the difference in the fans in the last 12-13 years, and I think a lot of it is the direct result of the team becoming good around the turn of the century and a lot of people jumping on the wagon and they are preparing to jump right back off, but want to complain before they do so.
 
#29
You know what? We used to tout ourselves as the best fans in the league, but listening to you guys all ***** and moan and act like spoiled babies makes me realize that we have, in fact, the WORST fans in the league. I'm so ashamed to call myself a Kings fan right now, and it's not because of the team or its record. It's because of you guys. There absolutely is a silver lining in all of this. DeMarcus Cousins coming of age. Tyreke's struggles and his ability to fight the adversity. Casspi learning his role and expanding his game. Donte Greene figuring out what he needs to do to be effective and trying to learn consistency. JT fighting adversity to overcome a slow start. I'm not giving up on my team. I'm glad Cruzdude posted this. You guys are all exposed.
After 6-7 years of not making into PO and after sooo many loses, it is normal that people get frustrated. Hell, I am frustrated. I can't sit and watch the game with a thought "It's ok, they're gonna destroy us tonight, but in 8-9 years BAM, we're contenders".
Somebody said on the 1st page - we have the worst score in the league, Tyreke and the other guys haven't improved comparing to the last year, hustle on the court isn't appropriate, etc.
I am sorry, but right now, I can't seem to find something I would be happy about when I talk about my Kings...
 

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#30
Yeah, because calling for Westphal's head is going to solve everything lol. Yeah, the team sucks, but I went through a decade worth of them being just as bad. This is promise. What went on back then was sheer ridiculousness. And yet the fans remained loyal. They still cheered for their team and hoped for the best. This new crop of fans aided by the internet is just terrible if you ask me. I'm 31 y/o and I cannot believe the difference in the fans in the last 12-13 years, and I think a lot of it is the direct result of the team becoming good around the turn of the century and a lot of people jumping on the wagon and they are preparing to jump right back off, but want to complain before they do so.
Your opinion is going to be pretty unpopular here, but I mostly agree. The Kings have some of the longest sellout streaks in recent NBA history, maybe the entire history of the league, and they weren't a playoff team for the majority of the time. In fact, far from it.

Yet, fans came and cheered. And did for years. Remeber how exciting it was with Edney/Richmond backcourt when we made the playoffs in 96, and stole a game at arco?

I do agree we have spoilied fans now, who jumped on the bandwagon early this decade, and aren't able to put anything in perspective. If they were fans before the 98 lockout, they would realize exactly what we're going through.

So yeah, eventhough your opinion is unpopular here, I agree with you, and have noticed the same thing on this forum.