Fire Paul Westphal

[Capt. Factorial]

Virtually every member of this team is performing worse than they did only a season ago in one way or another.

You might be surprised just how true that is. (The following numbers exclude Wright due to only 26 minutes and all rookies.)

Gotten worse:
FG% at least 20 points lower than 2009: Evans, Landry, Udrih, Thompson, Greene, Dalembert (6)
FT% at least 20 points lower than 2009: Evans, Landry, Head, Thompson, Greene, Dalembert, Jackson (7)
3P% at least 20 points lower than 2009: Evans, Udrih, Garcia, Greene (4)
Rebounds at least 1 reb/36 min less: Casspi (1)
Assists at least 0.5 ast/36 min less: Evans, Garcia, Casspi, Jackson (4)
Steals at least 0.3 st/36 min less: Udrih, Dalembert (2)
Blocks at least 0.3 bl/36 min less: Landry, Jackson (2)
TO at least 0.5 TO/36 min more: (0)

Gotten better:
FG% at least 20 points higher than 2009: Head, Jackson (2)
FT% at least 20 points higher: Udrih, Casspi (2)
3P% at least 20 points higher: Casspi, Head (2)
Rebounds at least 1 reb/36 min more: Greene (1)
Assists at least 0.5 ast/36 min more: Head, Dalembert (2)
Steals at least 0.3 st/36 min more: Garcia (1)
Blocks at least 0.3 bl/36 min more: Garcia, Head, Dalembert (3)
TO at least 0.5 TO/36 min less: Head, Greene, Jackson (3)

A few players are doing better at TOs, while rebounds, steals, and blocks look pretty stable. This is pretty well borne out by the team numbers as well. But what really jumps out here is the shooting (which obviously drags down the assists). There's been virtually no improvement in shooting from anyone on the team - Casspi has bettered his horrific FT% from last year, and Beno, who has always been good, is just a bit better than last year. And Casspi's threes are better. Outside of that, Head and Jackson...weren't even on our team last year. Yet look at the litany of players shooting worse than last year. 61% of our shots are taken by players shooting a lot worse than last year. 62% of our FTs. 57% of our threes.

This team all of a sudden can't shoot. A lot of this can be attributed to the style of the offense - we're getting 6 fewer shots "at the rim" per game, and settling for 4 more shots from under 10 feet away. But the change in shooting percentage between those two is a drop of 23 points, because layups and dunk are such high percentage shots. Outside of threes (where our percentage is down) our shooting percentages for short, mid-range, and deep-two jumpers are about the same, and our percentage at the rim is a teeny bit up. We're just not getting there.

So, in short - not getting layups and dunks, bad shooting from three, bad free throw shooting. Statistically, that's the major thing wrong, and it's team-wide, not just one or two players. That looks like a coaching issue to me.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

I don't think anyone predicted 55 wins for his team.

I’ve seen lots of people say this team will be a contender in a few years. That would mean in the area of 55 wins.

But I certainly didn't. Of course I may seem like an idiot for predicting 35 wins.

Less of an idiot than me. I had them finishing right around 500.

It was my hope that he would become more consistent with his starting 5 and his rotations this year.

Yeah I thought that too. When I saw him doing the same lineup juggling this year, I was like.........Oh God, here we go again.

I disagree and think there's a more talent here than you do

It’s hard to really make an assessment on the team’s talent because players like Greene, JT, and Casspi are so wildy inconsistant. One week you can watch them and think they’re future all stars and the next week you watch them and wonder why they aren’t in the D-league.

 

[bajaden]

You might be surprised just how true that is. (The following numbers exclude Wright due to only 26 minutes and all rookies.)

Gotten worse:
FG% at least 20 points lower than 2009: Evans, Landry, Udrih, Thompson, Greene, Dalembert (6)
FT% at least 20 points lower than 2009: Evans, Landry, Head, Thompson, Greene, Dalembert, Jackson (7)
3P% at least 20 points lower than 2009: Evans, Udrih, Garcia, Greene (4)
Rebounds at least 1 reb/36 min less: Casspi (1)
Assists at least 0.5 ast/36 min less: Evans, Garcia, Casspi, Jackson (4)
Steals at least 0.3 st/36 min less: Udrih, Dalembert (2)
Blocks at least 0.3 bl/36 min less: Landry, Jackson (2)
TO at least 0.5 TO/36 min more: (0)

Gotten better:
FG% at least 20 points higher than 2009: Head, Jackson (2)
FT% at least 20 points higher: Udrih, Casspi (2)
3P% at least 20 points higher: Casspi, Head (2)
Rebounds at least 1 reb/36 min more: Greene (1)
Assists at least 0.5 ast/36 min more: Head, Dalembert (2)
Steals at least 0.3 st/36 min more: Garcia (1)
Blocks at least 0.3 bl/36 min more: Garcia, Head, Dalembert (3)
TO at least 0.5 TO/36 min less: Head, Greene, Jackson (3)

A few players are doing better at TOs, while rebounds, steals, and blocks look pretty stable. This is pretty well borne out by the team numbers as well. But what really jumps out here is the shooting (which obviously drags down the assists). There's been virtually no improvement in shooting from anyone on the team - Casspi has bettered his horrific FT% from last year, and Beno, who has always been good, is just a bit better than last year. And Casspi's threes are better. Outside of that, Head and Jackson...weren't even on our team last year. Yet look at the litany of players shooting worse than last year. 61% of our shots are taken by players shooting a lot worse than last year. 62% of our FTs. 57% of our threes.

This team all of a sudden can't shoot. A lot of this can be attributed to the style of the offense - we're getting 6 fewer shots "at the rim" per game, and settling for 4 more shots from under 10 feet away. But the change in shooting percentage between those two is a drop of 23 points, because layups and dunk are such high percentage shots. Outside of threes (where our percentage is down) our shooting percentages for short, mid-range, and deep-two jumpers are about the same, and our percentage at the rim is a teeny bit up. We're just not getting there.

So, in short - not getting layups and dunks, bad shooting from three, bad free throw shooting. Statistically, that's the major thing wrong, and it's team-wide, not just one or two players. That looks like a coaching issue to me.

In essence your saying were not getting any easy baskets. Most of our shots are contested shots, and the one's that aren't, were missing. I've noticed that early in the game when we actually work to get someone an open shot, and the shots fall, the team keeps working to get those same open shots. But if the shots don't fall, then it suddenly becomes everyman for himself. In other words there's no trust on this team that if you work to get someone an open shot, that they'll make it, and if they don't make it, then there's no point in trying it again.

With that mentality Webber never would have gotten his 18 to 20 shots a game. Peja never would have gotten his 14 or 15 shots a game. I remember countless times when Webb was 0 for 6 or 1 for 8 at the half, but by games end he was 9 for 20 or 8 for 16. Ditto Peja! This team has no patience or discipilne. They give up on whatever offensive scheme they have for the game and just become a bunch of one on one players. As I've said, its not working and you can't fire the players. Now you put a group of experienced players out there and Westphal suddenly becomes a better coach. And thats exactly my point. We need a coach that knows how to coach young inexperienced players and get the most out of them. That knows how to develop them for the future. For all I know Casspi, Greene, and Thompson will all turn out to be good NBA players. For another team!!

 

[top10]

Somehow, I have the feeling that if our young players would end up in another team, they will perform much better then they do now.
we do not have at the moment anyone that perform on a decent level.

for me that spells a coaching problem.

it is coach responsibility to make sure the young players develop as nessesary and for the teams goals.
it is the coach responsibility (even if not exclusivly) on the team spirit
it is definitly the coach responsibility to work and adapt to the talent level that he has. if the team does notplay to its players strength, they will be lost, misrable and pathethic.

you do not have to have the best players in order to have a decent team.

 

[Peja]

Somehow, I have the feeling that if our young players would end up in another team, they will perform much better then they do now.
we do not have at the moment anyone that perform on a decent level.

for me that spells a coaching problem.

it is coach responsibility to make sure the young players develop as nessesary and for the teams goals.
it is the coach responsibility (even if not exclusivly) on the team spirit
it is definitly the coach responsibility to work and adapt to the talent level that he has. if the team does notplay to its players strength, they will be lost, misrable and pathethic.

you do not have to have the best players in order to have a decent team.

I agree with every single word!

 

[Andriod_KiNg]

Hmm yeah needs some bumpage.

 

[deekay2o9]

i kind of wish we had hired Tom Thibbs two years ago.

Yep, me too. That was some great defense played against us tonight.

 

[theclash4u5]

Evans didn't disagree with Westphal's assessment of his second-half play.


"No, not really," Evans said. "I was aggressive. I was trying to attack. They were running back and tied the game up, and he put me in. I just tried to create and look for nobody else because when it comes down all on me, I just try to create and attack."


The Kings led by 16 points in the first half. That lead disappeared during the third quarter as the Kings hurt themselves with mistakes.


The Kings had two turnovers at halftime, and Chicago didn't score off either. But they gave the ball away eight times in the third, allowing the Bulls to come back.


Westphal called the second half "something out of a horror book." He said the Kings ran the same plays but didn't execute. The ball didn't move, players didn't pass out of double teams, and the turnovers piled up.


Westphal said sitting players who make mistakes is hard because several players make them.


"It's tough because we showed what we can do, but we also showed how far we have to go," Westphal said.
​

The Kings ran the SAME plays as they did in the 1st! The Bulls, with a superior coaching staff, made adjustments at halftime (and in the 3rd quarter), the Kings did not.

Then, after the Kings were struggling to convert those same plays due to the defense, the team turned to ball hogging and 1 and 1 play, while ignoring Westfail and his "set" plays. The team has given up on Westfail...it's THAT simple.

 

[Lockehead]

I think coach is doing some experimenting. Hes probably experimenting our players individually at certain positions to find out what they can and cannot play. We dont see JT at the 3 anymore do we? We see Donte at the 4, and Casspi at the 2, DMC and JT at the 4 or 5. We may or may not see them there next week. Even Reke seems to be playing the 2 position a bit more lately. Im not givnig up on Westphal yet. I think once hes done with the experiments, we might start to see some real consistency and improvement if our players can play at their best positions.

 

[theclash4u5]

When you're the coach of a team that has only won 15 games since the start of 2010, I guess you'll try anything...

Fail.

 

[LWP777]

I vote for firing PW and hiring Don Nelson. At least the games would be entertaining to watch.

 

[bajaden]

I vote for firing PW and hiring Don Nelson. At least the games would be entertaining to watch.

God! Please no. There's a part of me that loves Nellie, but from a distance. For his entire career as a coach Nellie has lusted for a center. But everytime he's had his hands on one he's misused him. I think that Nellie just has a guards mentality and likes a lot of little guys running around and shooting the ball. But your right about the entertaining part...

 

[theclash4u5]

At least Cousins would get the green light to shoot more 3s with Nelson

 

[TheWileyVet]

Who else is available to coach? Are there any viable options???

 

[bajaden]

At least Cousins would get the green light to shoot more 3s with Nelson

I'm assuming that this was meant as sarcasm. But for those that worry about Cousins becoming a 3pt shooting center, I should point out that in 15 games he's taken a grand total of 6, 3pt shots. He has a long way to go to reach Nellies standards. Actually he probably couldn't play for Nellie. He's way too big..

 

[Section 101]

Who else is available to coach? Are there any viable options???

Most coaches wont take over in the middle of the year. They would most likely name an interm coach and look after the season.

 

[gunks]

I feel like giving Mario Elie a shot couldnt hurt.

Westphal is really seeming Kenny Natt out there, just a level of cluelessness that trumps even the ineptness of your Theuses and Musseses

 

[Aenadin]

God! Please no. There's a part of me that loves Nellie, but from a distance. For his entire career as a coach Nellie has lusted for a center. But everytime he's had his hands on one he's misused him. I think that Nellie just has a guards mentality and likes a lot of little guys running around and shooting the ball. But your right about the entertaining part...

Nelson will start tyreke at the center position.... oh dear lord...

id rather have rudy T as a loaner or John calipari for one year

 

[mac]

I feel like giving Mario Elie a shot couldnt hurt.

Westphal is really seeming Kenny Natt out there, just a level of cluelessness that trumps even the ineptness of your Theuses and Musseses

Whoa whoa whoa ... He does seem clueless, but trumping Theus and Muss and Natt?

 

[Tyndel]

13-14 to start what has is been since? 12-43 last season and 4 and 11 this year. So 16-54 since the good start of last year how much of that was him not yet getting his system implemented last year?

 

[Aenadin]

clearly the entire coaching staff isnt working if thats the case.... it wont matter if elie coaches if the players tune out the entire staff... (hopefully not the case)

but if we DO wipe the slate clean id like the coaching staff of

Coach Spo (I know he's lost the heat team but its not his fault lebron and crew are weak mentally)
Elston Turner
Brian Shaw
Del harris

young and old mixed probably? throw in lawrence frank in the mix

 

[asakkings]

I wouldn't mind getting Spolestra after he gets fired this year. He did a decent job managing Miami last year and is in a terrible situation this year. I also wouldn't mind Brian Shaw, a former player learning from Phil Jackson should be a decent coach.

 

[Superman]

clearly the entire coaching staff isnt working if thats the case.... it wont matter if elie coaches if the players tune out the entire staff... (hopefully not the case)

but if we DO wipe the slate clean id like the coaching staff of

Coach Spo (I know he's lost the heat team but its not his fault lebron and crew are weak mentally)
Elston Turner
Brian Shaw
Del harris

young and old mixed probably? throw in lawrence frank in the mix

Brian Shaw is next in line in LA.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

I'd be fine with Spolestra .. Like I said in another thread, I also like McHale... and Lawrence Frank.

Mike Brown is another somewhat interesting name .. never liked him as a coach personally, but he has good numbers, which look even better now that Lebron is struggling.

And then there is the long shot chance Adelman gets fired if Houston continues to play like garbage .. wouldnt mind having that guy back

 

[Superman]

I have an idea. Might seem a little old fashioned, but what the heck?

Why don't we give this coach more than 100 games before we decide that he's not a good coach and that we need to hire someone else? How about two full seasons? Would that be too much to ask? I know his rotations suck, and I know that the team is not playing to expectations, but seriously, we're 15 games in. A lot of basketball to be played. A lot of new players on the team this year. I think it would be in the best interests of the team this year and moving forward to give Westphal a chance to learn his players tendencies, get into a groove and see what happens.

This is of particular importance in light of the fact that we've had four coaches in the last four seasons. You cannot grow as a team without continuity, or at least some semblance of it. You look around the league (and professional sports in general) at teams that hire and fire coaches the way we have been since Adelman, and none of them are successful. In the NBA, unless the coach is totally out of his league and doesn't know what the heck he's doing, you need to give him at least two years to show some signs of improvement, especially with a young and inexperienced team. Not to mention the roster turnover and injuries over the past several seasons that have killed any chance at a set lineup/rotation.

A lot of people had overblown expectations coming into this season, including fans on this board. Many had the Kings winning 40+ games this year. I don't think there's any question that they have the talent to do so, so the disappointment is understandable. But I don't think firing the head coach 15 games into his second season does any good. We're not a playoff caliber team in the Western conference. Might as well give the coach a chance to right the ship this season, and if he doesn't, then you can claim that you gave him a legitimate chance and he blew it. But 97 games is not a legitimate chance in the NBA.

 

[Tyndel]

I have an idea. Might seem a little old fashioned, but what the heck?

Why don't we give this coach more than 100 games before we decide that he's not a good coach and that we need to hire someone else? How about two full seasons? Would that be too much to ask? I know his rotations suck, and I know that the team is not playing to expectations, but seriously, we're 15 games in. A lot of basketball to be played. A lot of new players on the team this year. I think it would be in the best interests of the team this year and moving forward to give Westphal a chance to learn his players tendencies, get into a groove and see what happens.

This is of particular importance in light of the fact that we've had four coaches in the last four seasons. You cannot grow as a team without continuity, or at least some semblance of it. You look around the league (and professional sports in general) at teams that hire and fire coaches the way we have been since Adelman, and none of them are successful. In the NBA, unless the coach is totally out of his league and doesn't know what the heck he's doing, you need to give him at least two years to show some signs of improvement, especially with a young and inexperienced team. Not to mention the roster turnover and injuries over the past several seasons that have killed any chance at a set lineup/rotation.

A lot of people had overblown expectations coming into this season, including fans on this board. Many had the Kings winning 40+ games this year. I don't think there's any question that they have the talent to do so, so the disappointment is understandable. But I don't think firing the head coach 15 games into his second season does any good. We're not a playoff caliber team in the Western conference. Might as well give the coach a chance to right the ship this season, and if he doesn't, then you can claim that you gave him a legitimate chance and he blew it. But 97 games is not a legitimate chance in the NBA.

Because some of us feel the rotations and lineups and minutes and coaching adjustments he has already made and will make is going to end up having a chance at stunting the growth of our young guys. He has had more then a full season to work with some of these guys and he still doesn't know what they can do and can't do. If there is a chance of getting someone in who will grow our young players for a year or 3 down the road then I say take the chance at the very least you will get someone else in who will also not help them reach the potential they have.

Paul Westphal
"He couldn't have anymore freedom, I'm not going to make him player-coach." on Tyreke
"The key to any game is to use your strengths and hide your weaknesses."

He has failed to put a system in place and expects Tyreke to go it alone on offense and come up on the fly with brilliance. And he has failed to use the obvious strengths the team has and hasn't even noticed some of our weaknesses much less tried to hide them.

 

[Superman]

Because some of us feel the rotations and lineups and minutes and coaching adjustments he has already made and will make is going to end up having a chance at stunting the growth of our young guys. He has had more then a full season to work with some of these guys and he still doesn't know what they can do and can't do. If there is a chance of getting someone in who will grow our young players for a year or 3 down the road then I say take the chance at the very least you will get someone else in who will also not help them reach the potential they have.

Only 8 of the players now here were on the team last season. Two of them (Garcia and Landry) played fewer than 30 games for us last season. That leaves 6 players that he should theoretically have a good rapport with. Except two of them were rookies last year (Evans, Casspi), and another two were second year players (Greene, Thompson) that still haven't exactly carved out a niche for themselves in the NBA yet, and one of them came into camp 20 pounds heavier than he was last season.

Then, you consider the fact that we have two new centers that need to share minutes, one of which is a rookie, the other was injured during training camp. Oh, and the veteran center and the veteran power forward that were supposed to start both are expiring contracts, so you can't just nail either of them to the bench because you gave up young players to get them and need to determine if a) they are going to be part of your plans moving forward, or b) if you're going to try to trade them at the deadline, in which case you need to give them minutes to maximize their trade value, regardless of the impact it has on your young players who are definitely going to be here.

Then there's the jumbled backcourt that features three combo guards, one of whom is a defensive liability.

My point is simply that there are no clear cut answers on this roster, not 15 games into the season. Like I said, I hate Westphal's rotations so far, if you can even call them that. But one thing that is evident is that the guys who have been benched at certain times have come back into the lineup and played very good basketball on both ends of the floor, so it can be argued that the benchings have had positive by-products when all is said and done.

This is a transitional year for this team. Sucks because the future looks so bright and expectations were so high coming in, but that's the fact of the matter. We need to know what the future holds for guys like Dalembert and Landry, both of whom are unrestricted free agents after this year. We need to know who is going to play defense consistently, and what their abilities are on that end of the court. I'm not trying to excuse the mistakes Westphal is making, and I'm not arguing that he's the guy who is going to help us turn the corner. When he was hired, I felt that he'd be a stop gap, a decent guy who would focus on fundamental basketball and then give way to a better coach once the team is a little more desirable for a top level hire. But I don't see the benefit in firing a guy who has been here hardly more than a year, particularly when we've been on a coaching carousel the past four years. It's nonsense. The only way we'll get better is if we allow someone the opportunity to start building something on a foundational level, and then we can go from there. And I'm sorry, but 97 games is not enough time. Firing Westphal now would be detrimental to the development of our team, assuming someone clearly better was not available.

 

[asakkings]

I forgot about Mchale, he turned Al Jefferson from a half way decent high schooler to a great post up player. He would be a good coach esp from a toughness stand point and I players will listen to him. Mchale can do wonders for Cousins game.

 

[bajaden]

13-14 to start what has is been since? 12-43 last season and 4 and 11 this year. So 16-54 since the good start of last year how much of that was him not yet getting his system implemented last year?

If the Kings lose 3 more games before winning another game, it will be the worse start in Kings history. Surpassing the great Dick Motta.

 

[pshn80]

Only 8 of the players now here were on the team last season. Two of them (Garcia and Landry) played fewer than 30 games for us last season. That leaves 6 players that he should theoretically have a good rapport with. Except two of them were rookies last year (Evans, Casspi), and another two were second year players (Greene, Thompson) that still haven't exactly carved out a niche for themselves in the NBA yet, and one of them came into camp 20 pounds heavier than he was last season.

Then, you consider the fact that we have two new centers that need to share minutes, one of which is a rookie, the other was injured during training camp. Oh, and the veteran center and the veteran power forward that were supposed to start both are expiring contracts, so you can't just nail either of them to the bench because you gave up young players to get them and need to determine if a) they are going to be part of your plans moving forward, or b) if you're going to try to trade them at the deadline, in which case you need to give them minutes to maximize their trade value, regardless of the impact it has on your young players who are definitely going to be here.

Then there's the jumbled backcourt that features three combo guards, one of whom is a defensive liability.

My point is simply that there are no clear cut answers on this roster, not 15 games into the season. Like I said, I hate Westphal's rotations so far, if you can even call them that. But one thing that is evident is that the guys who have been benched at certain times have come back into the lineup and played very good basketball on both ends of the floor, so it can be argued that the benchings have had positive by-products when all is said and done.

This is a transitional year for this team. Sucks because the future looks so bright and expectations were so high coming in, but that's the fact of the matter. We need to know what the future holds for guys like Dalembert and Landry, both of whom are unrestricted free agents after this year. We need to know who is going to play defense consistently, and what their abilities are on that end of the court. I'm not trying to excuse the mistakes Westphal is making, and I'm not arguing that he's the guy who is going to help us turn the corner. When he was hired, I felt that he'd be a stop gap, a decent guy who would focus on fundamental basketball and then give way to a better coach once the team is a little more desirable for a top level hire. But I don't see the benefit in firing a guy who has been here hardly more than a year, particularly when we've been on a coaching carousel the past four years. It's nonsense. The only way we'll get better is if we allow someone the opportunity to start building something on a foundational level, and then we can go from there. And I'm sorry, but 97 games is not enough time. Firing Westphal now would be detrimental to the development of our team, assuming someone clearly better was not available.

In my book, a very thorough and well done analysis of our situation with the team and Westphal. I agree with your conclusion and rationale. Considering all as you spell it out, I think I and most of us had to high expectations for our performance this year. Hopefully, what has happened with rotations and we do now and in the coming games will begin to clarify things for us and the coaches. But I don't there is any magic wand with this group of players, and it is hard to be patient. Good post and thanks.