Fire Paul Westphal

[IfAt1st]

I don't care about not having a replacement at this point, get rid of him. What does this guy do? Rotations suck. Offense sucks. Defense sucks. Player development is minimal. Changing/fixing things game to game is minimal. Game planning/exploiting match ups is minimal.

Your rant was contradicted by the game tonight - maybe you can watch next game?

Landry and DMC killed the Knicks down low. The only way they could have exploited the Knicks more would be if they featured them in a Grindhouse double-bill.
30 minutes for DMC, and 20 for Greene isn't developing players or fixing things?
I even saw Reke try to post up multiple times this game.
The Knicks just made a LOT of tough shots tonight.

Taking your poo-colored glasses off when watching the game might help.

 

[Prince_XY]

Seriously, what does PW do that helps this team?

A lot.

In our perspective (as fans), we might not be seeing a lot because we only want to see one thing - WIN more games NOW. We are not a championship team yet. We are still a rebuilding team maybe on its middle stage of the process. I'll give Westphal (and the FO) the benefit of the doubt. There might be some more important things that needed to be done (example:disciplining players, letting players feel each other, seeing players play in some situations, showcasing some players so they can be very good trade chip, etc.) and that has been distractions. It is just too early to judge Westphal 10 games or even 30 games into the season.

 

[Tyndel]

Westphal is just one of a number of problems. The bigger problem is this: Bad things usually happen to the teams that have ultra-low payrolls. The Kings have an ultra-low payroll. As such, the team has basically one star, Tyreke Evans.

There really is nothing else to brag about on this roster. Nothing more than role-players.

Sure, blame Westphal. I blame the owners.

The ultra low payroll was indicative of the talent we wanted to go forward with we had a complete rotation on the day of the draft and all that was left was filling roster slots but in fact we are not playing or miss-playing all the talent we have that are still in rookie contracts.

If we hadn't filled any roster positions after the draft we would likely have a better record then we do right now because everyone would know everyone else better and have better chemistry already and the rotations would be restricted to a point that would make sense even with Westpaul calling the shots.

 

[chief bromden]

A lot.

In our perspective (as fans), we might not be seeing a lot because we only want to see one thing - WIN more games NOW. We are not a championship team yet. We are still a rebuilding team maybe on its middle stage of the process. I'll give Westphal (and the FO) the benefit of the doubt. There might be some more important things that needed to be done (example:disciplining players, letting players feel each other, seeing players play in some situations, showcasing some players so they can be very good trade chip, etc.) and that has been distractions. It is just too early to judge Westphal 10 games or even 30 games into the season.

Except Westphal is 92 games into his tenure, not 10 or 30. The front office has been in place MUCH longer than that, and has continually committed errors over the past 5+ years. As fans, it isn't about seeing "behind the scenes" and only expecting wins, it's about being entertained and enjoying watch other people play a GAME. Without taking this stuff too seriously, this team just sucks and the end is no where in sight. To be honest, it doesn't matter who is at fault because if they continue to lose, I will gradually stop paying attention because it just isn't entertaining to watch people play a game poorly. I wish they would improve.

 

[Bricklayer]

Except Westphal is 92 games into his tenure, not 10 or 30.

Sure except nobody rational called what he accomplished in year 1 a failure. There were concerns along the way, but in general he was justly considered the best coach we had had since Adelman and a guy who steadied a ship of very young players, improved by 8 wins, and had them on an upward trajectory. Westphal may have been the coach for 92 games, but the failures that everybody is so concerened about have all taken place over the course of only 10 games + a shaky training camp. I think he's made a mess of a situation that did not have to be messy, butthere's still a lot of story to be written here. Wetphal has put himself on the path to be fired if his mysteriosu gambits don't pan out, but 10 games is hardly an adequate sample size to know how its going to work out.

 

[Asaf]

Sure except nobody rational called what he accomplished in year 1 a failure. There were concerns along the way, but in general he was justly considered the best coach we had had since Adelman and a guy who steadied a ship of very young players, improved by 8 wins, and had them on an upward trajectory. Westphal may have been the coach for 92 games, but the failures that everybody is so concerened about have all taken place over the course of only 10 games + a shaky training camp. I think he's made a mess of a situation that did not have to be messy, butthere's still a lot of story to be written here. Wetphal has put himself on the path to be fired if his mysteriosu gambits don't pan out, but 10 games is hardly an adequate sample size to know how its going to work out.

Westphal lost the handles on this ship the day that Martin returned from injury, and hasn't regained them since.

 

[Arena Skeptic]

Official attendance: 12,817

No way. 12,817 what? About 9,000 of those 12,817 were people. I'm not sure what species the rest of them were. Flies? Because they didn't show up in the camera.

Entire sections were nearly empty. No 1/2 full, not 1/4 full, but nearly empty. How does that translate to 12,817?

I've often wondered what motivates MSE to exaggerate attendance. I have developed no working theory for them to do this. Anyone else?

But aside from that, the core problem here is the owners. They are Sacramento's version of Chris Cohan. Until you solve that issue, everything else is just minor details. Peaches? GP? PW? The players? The arena? Details.

 

[fnordius]

Give Westphal an experienced point guard, a starter quality small forward, a starter quality power forward and some better, more reliable play at center, that's all, and I think he would do just fine, in fact be our hero.

Well yes, but even if he could talk Johnson into it, I'm pretty sure that Majerle and Barkley give it the thumbs down.

What I want from a coach is for the players, however good or bad they may be, to play as a team, and to be at least equal to the sum of their parts.

A little over a month ago, I said

My wife hadn't seen a Kings game in a long, long time. Watching this one, she commented that our ball movement was atrocious, that the Lakers were playing more like the old Kings than the Kings were. We sat there and watched as, again and again, someone brought the ball up the floor, then either shot, turned it over, or passed it to someone who shot it. I could have counted on my fingers the plays which involved two or more successful passes.

It's great that we only lost by a few points in Staples, but that was a completely fugly game for us. I hope that the rest of the season looks nothing like it.

I've seen almost nothing in the way of improvement since then. I missed the first quarter of this last game, but of the rest of it, there were maybe 5 minutes in the late 3rd or early 4th where we looked like a coherent and competent team. The rest of the game was the same old crap, and left me wondering why I was watching when there were other, better things available. Like Petticoat Junction reruns, or Gigli.

Really, most of that game was unpleasant to watch. I was not shocked to see that the upper deck at Arco was completely bare, with an audience of maybe 8,000, many of whom were booing.

PW is the beneficiary of two consecutive top-5 picks, something the franchise hadn't had since the drafting of Otis Birdsong and Phil Ford ('77-'78). Not only were they top 5s, they were top 5s in very strong draft years, and the consensus seems to be that we did a pretty good job of picking them.

If PW can't take that and make us look like something other than a contender for worst team in the league, if he can't take that and make it at least slightly pleasant to watch, then I just don't know what to say in his defense anymore. Whether the franchise has even a prayer of staying in operation in Sacramento hinges on what happens right now, and I don't want PW's final claim to fame to be that he was Sacramento's last coach.

That said, he has a guaranteed contract through the end of next year, which will probably be a lockout anyway. I'm not holding my breath for a replacement.

 

[rhythmless]

Official attendance: 12,817

No way. 12,817 what? About 9,000 of those 12,817 were people. I'm not sure what species the rest of them were. Flies? Because they didn't show up in the camera.

Entire sections were nearly empty. No 1/2 full, not 1/4 full, but nearly empty. How does that translate to 12,817?

I've often wondered what motivates MSE to exaggerate attendance. I have developed no working theory for them to do this. Anyone else?

But aside from that, the core problem here is the owners. They are Sacramento's version of Chris Cohan. Until you solve that issue, everything else is just minor details. Peaches? GP? PW? The players? The arena? Details.

Official attendence is described as tickets purchased/accounted for, NOT people that went into the arena. Further, I'm not aware of any training available where people are able to discern what 9000 people in stands through a CAMERA angle is, vs what 12000 would be.

MSE are not the only ones to exaggerate attendance. Every professional team does it. As for a working theory, it is simple; do you want to go to a dead party, or a party that was SOLD OUT??? Do you want a girl that no one wants, or one that has a waiting list? Do you go to the bar that is empty, or one with a bunch of people having fun?

 

[LilMissDiva]

Wow this thread sounds very memorable. The same complaints were always said about Adelman.

Adelman I disagreed with as far as getting the boot. However, I agree with the Westphal issue. I don't know and won't pretend to know what goes on behind the scenes, but I just a see a big ole mess out there on the court. They look lost more and more every night. Somethings not clicking - and how can it when no one knows what the heck they're suppose to do.

When they don't know what they're supposed to do that usually is a huge red flag in Management anywhere else in the world.

JM2C.

 

[ArcoKings]

after nj is home to hornets, at jazz (back to back), home bulls.

Which game will they win?

none.

 

[Superman]

Westphal is just one of a number of problems. The bigger problem is this: Bad things usually happen to the teams that have ultra-low payrolls. The Kings have an ultra-low payroll. As such, the team has basically one star, Tyreke Evans.

There really is nothing else to brag about on this roster. Nothing more than role-players.

Sure, blame Westphal. I blame the owners.

This stance is interesting on a night when Landry and DMC probably played the best games of the season.

 

[gunks]

Our team is pretty sloppy on both sides of the court, but shows flashes. As this is a young team (we have vets, but they are all mediocre at best), I'm willing to give Westphal until the allstar break before I call for his head. But some of the stuff is really worrysome. The rotations are garbage, and his handling of JT and Greene is atrocious. I dont really expect either of those guys to ever be allstars, but they both have potential to be really solid contributors. Westphal is starting to squelch that potential.

OTOH, I am seeing game by game improvement from Cousins. His defense is getting better (its gone from terrible to bad to below average, progress!) as is his shot selection. Reke seems to be digressing though. I wonder if it is his ankles, or him having to deal with a new role (maybe coaching wants him to curtail the stat stuffing?). Way to early in the season to worry, but it is noticeable.

Player development is key on our team. I dont know how well Westphal is handling it.

 

[Arena Skeptic]

This stance is interesting on a night when Landry and DMC probably played the best games of the season.

It was the Knicks, for Pete's sake.

 

[UK_King]

Did anyone just read this on twitter.

Tyreke, Luther, Donté, Carl and Samuel will be the team's starters for the foreseeable future, according to Coach Westphal.

WTF!?

 

[Bricklayer]

Did anyone just read this on twitter.

Tyreke, Luther, Donté, Carl and Samuel will be the team's starters for the foreseeable future, according to Coach Westphal.

WTF!?

I actually support this particular experiiment. I think it might be the best defensive team we can put out there right now while still retaining any shooting, with the exception of Landry at PF. It gives us a clear cut #1 and #2 option, and it makes use of some of our size. But the big thing is our defense. We jsut HAVE ot get hat under control. For all the compalints about the offense, the defense is our defining characteristic right now, and not in a good way. We scored 106ppg last night. You should win scoring 106ppg. But we just can't stop people. So let's throw our best defensive crew out there and just go for it and see what happens. And damnit Westphal, give them a few games to get into sync this time and try to establish a defensive mindset before switching it up again.

 

[UK_King]

I'm just a purist; stability breeds familiarity.

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

Did anyone just read this on twitter.

Tyreke, Luther, Donté, Carl and Samuel will be the team's starters for the foreseeable future, according to Coach Westphal.

WTF!?

Yup, here is the link for everyone..

http://twitter.com/mr_jasonjones/status/5382998211952640

Donte Greene out of the doghouse.

 

[Bricklayer]

I'm just a purist; stability breeds familiarity.

Sure but given that the stability that this lineup replaces involved Jason at SF and was all of 1 game deep, moving to this one is not a loss on that front. The constant changes have cause d chaos, but what we started with yesterday clearly wasn't the answer.

 

[gunks]

That starting lineup looks good on D, but really there are only two guys that can score (Reke and Landry). We might not allow any 30 point 1st quarters anymore, but its not like we're going to be scoring that much either.

Although, with the way Reke walks the ball up the court, we might as well try to be a "grind it out" team

 

[ReinadelosReys]

Westphal was on with Grant during his weekly radio show, it should be up on their website soon, but he really didn't say anything he didn't say last night after the game for anyone who is interested.

A few quick highlights: Took some backhanded shots at the team, the lack of defense, the "standing around and looking at each other" on offense. Said that the team really hasn't had that many changes to the starting line up, most were due to injuries (Dalembert) or suspension (Reke). Said it was important to give people a chance and sometimes that means leaving someone out. Donte to the starting line up is a defensive change, as is Luther Head.

 

[Asaf]

That starting lineup looks good on D, but really there are only two guys that can score (Reke and Landry). We might not allow any 30 point 1st quarters anymore, but its not like we're going to be scoring that much either.

Although, with the way Reke walks the ball up the court, we might as well try to be a "grind it out" team

That's one of the things that really bothers me about Tyreke's game and about this team's game in general. We play at an excuciatingly slow pace. We never run or pick up the pace. We don't put any pressure on the opposing team's defense, and god knows we don't put any pressure on their offense. No wonder teams shoot at crazy percentages against us. They never get tired. They probably spend another hour on the treadmills after games against us just to feel like they got a complete workout that night.

 

[Bricklayer]

That's one of the things that really bothers me about Tyreke's game and about this team's game in general. We play at an excuciatingly slow pace. We never run or pick up the pace. We don't put any pressure on the opposing team's defense, and god knows we don't put any pressure on their offense. No wonder teams shoot at crazy percentages against us. They never get tired. They probably spend another hour on the treadmills after games against us just to feel like they got a complete workout that night.

Well that's nto going to work -- many, in fact I think perhaps even most of the greatest defensive teams in NBA history made it a practice to walk the ball up the court, to control tempo, drain the air out of the ball, and pound you to dust. The difference is that their walking the ball up the court was a precursor to sharp, disciplined offensive execution. Basically they knew that they could out execute you in the halfcourt, so they shut down the running games of both teams and made it a halfcourt war that they were prepared to win. We actually have the personnel to one day do that -- a dominant one on one perimeter player and a potetnially dominant post player. But right now we bring the ball up slowly, and have very little offensive structure, which is a lethal combo. Young teams typically need to run, not only because they have fresh legs, but because they aren't going to execute well enough to win otherwise.

Nonetheless the bigger issues on this team are still on the other end of the floor. Walking it up, selfish play whatever still has us ranked dead middle in the league in ppg (#17 at 100.4ppg). Its the other side whee we're giving up 106ppg that is just killing our chances.

 

[Showtime]

Actually, if you look at the track record of most bigs inthe league, it's normal to experience more foul problems in the first few years. It rarely is a career long problem.

Notice you didn't say anything abut his talent not being good enough to be a starter. Foul problems in your 2nd year don't "prove" you can't be a starter down the road.

You also didn't acknowledge who was starting at center next to JT last year. JT hasn't had a chance to start next to an nba starting center.

Foul problems are part of his mental approach. When I said JT wasn't good enough to be a starter, I meant he doesn't play well enough or consistent enough to be a starter, not that he didn't have the tools or the talent. His problem is more mental. He can lose focus, get in foul trouble, and loose his cool. It's frustrating to watch. He can take himself out of the game, which is why it's better for him to stay in that bench role where there's less pressure to stay out of foul trouble and he doesn't have to worry about it. He can just focus on playing basketball, and not let other things get in his way mentally.

 

[=LarryLegend=]

I like Paul Westphal, but I am interested to see Mario Elie as our head coach.

 

[steelevt]

i dont understand why so many people are upset about the new line up westphal put up. we have a pg that i actually see make entry passes to big men and supposedly is a 3 pt shooter (i havent seen it in games but maybe he makes them in practice???) and greene is finally in. i have no problems with seeing how this more defensive lineup works out. sure im tired of seeing the lineup change, but this change actually makes sense. but in multiple threads im seeing a lot of people upsets about this. do they not remember we had JT at the 3 a few games. apparently it didnt work so westphal changed it. if he left jt at the 3, you would be calling for his head, so he puts greene in there and...you're calling for his head?

 

[Tetsujin]

i dont understand why so many people are upset about the new line up westphal put up. we have a pg that i actually see make entry passes to big men and supposedly is a 3 pt shooter (i havent seen it in games but maybe he makes them in practice???) and greene is finally in. i have no problems with seeing how this more defensive lineup works out. sure im tired of seeing the lineup change, but this change actually makes sense. but in multiple threads im seeing a lot of people upsets about this. do they not remember we had JT at the 3 a few games. apparently it didnt work so westphal changed it. if he left jt at the 3, you would be calling for his head, so he puts greene in there and...you're calling for his head?

Lave Donte out, Donte fans are angry. Put Donte in and Casspi fans are angry. It's a lose lose situation

 

[Bricklayer]

Lave Donte out, Donte fans are angry. Put Donte in and Casspi fans are angry. It's a lose lose situation

Well let's hope that Omri is not summarily disposed of as a 12th man as a result of this. The wild gesticulations have got to stop by Westphal. A guy loses his starting job, fine. He moves to the bench as the primary reserve. He doesn't end up straight to the practice sqaud or playing a position he hasn't played since grade school.

 

[Asaf]

i dont understand why so many people are upset about the new line up westphal put up. we have a pg that i actually see make entry passes to big men and supposedly is a 3 pt shooter (i havent seen it in games but maybe he makes them in practice???) and greene is finally in. i have no problems with seeing how this more defensive lineup works out. sure im tired of seeing the lineup change, but this change actually makes sense. but in multiple threads im seeing a lot of people upsets about this. do they not remember we had JT at the 3 a few games. apparently it didnt work so westphal changed it. if he left jt at the 3, you would be calling for his head, so he puts greene in there and...you're calling for his head?

I think part of the reason is that he should've known it was stupid to put JT at the 3, and if this lineup makes sense, why didn't he just do it several games ago? These constant changes make it impossible for chemistry and understanding between the players to develop. I'm not even talking about becoming a legitimate NBA team. Teams like Minnesota and Cleveland are growing and developing an identity and it seems like we're still stuck in preseason.

 

[Asaf]

Lave Donte out, Donte fans are angry. Put Donte in and Casspi fans are angry. It's a lose lose situation

I think most fans just want Donte and Omri to be the primary option at SF, regardless of who starts.