Fire Paul Westphal

[Kingster]

Well that's nto going to work -- many, in fact I think perhaps even most of the greatest defensive teams in NBA history made it a practice to walk the ball up the court, to control tempo, drain the air out of the ball, and pound you to dust. The difference is that their walking the ball up the court was a precursor to sharp, disciplined offensive execution. Basically they knew that they could out execute you in the halfcourt, so they shut down the running games of both teams and made it a halfcourt war that they were prepared to win. We actually have the personnel to one day do that -- a dominant one on one perimeter player and a potetnially dominant post player. But right now we bring the ball up slowly, and have very little offensive structure, which is a lethal combo. Young teams typically need to run, not only because they have fresh legs, but because they aren't going to execute well enough to win otherwise.

Nonetheless the bigger issues on this team are still on the other end of the floor. Walking it up, selfish play whatever still has us ranked dead middle in the league in ppg (#17 at 100.4ppg). Its the other side whee we're giving up 106ppg that is just killing our chances.

The point is to get into the offense much earlier. Instead of walking it up, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, and now you have 16 seconds left on the shot clock,
either pass to the open wing (most preferable) or run the ball past the half court ball and pass and get into the offense much, much sooner. There's no excuse for not doing that. It doesn't require incredible skill. It's just comes down to doing it. What would be great is if Tyreke did the simple pass to the wing from the backcourt to the frontcourt and then the wing could actually pass it right back to him, and then maybe without dribble, dribble, dribble, Tyreke could pass to the other side of the court. Wow, we might have the start of a decent offense then...

 

[Kingster]

Well let's hope that Omri is not summarily disposed of as a 12th man as a result of this. The wild gesticulations have got to stop by Westphal. A guy loses his starting job, fine. He moves to the bench as the primary reserve. He doesn't end up straight to the practice sqaud or playing a position he hasn't played since grade school.

Casspi has played lousy, and that's being very charitable. His defense has been ridiculously bad and that's why he got jerked. And Westphal had a helluvalot more patience than I would with keeping him in there for stretches of defensive putridness. Maybe he should go to the doghouse for about 5 games so he can get his head on straight.

 

[Ryle]

I don't post much anymore(thus my avatar that is 2 years old) but we do have the LOWEST payroll in the NBA. I think the mantra that has been given to the employees of the Kings(including those on the radio) is to try and sell as many tickets as we can this year and try to convince people that we are going to spend money in the off season. With the collective bargaining agreement in flux and set to expire I think we are in for a rough go this year.

I liked what Westphal did last year but this team is really better than it's record and has lost to some teams with less talent and worse records during this stretch so I am not sure what to do.

Alright.....back into my hole........

 

[chief bromden]

Westphal lost the handles on this ship the day that Martin returned from injury, and hasn't regained them since.

Even further, the Kings are 10-28 since the Martin trade. We aren't working with a 10 game sample here. Westphal has been volatile with the lineup dating back to last season and the Kings haven't been winning games or playing good basketball for quite some time. The end of the last season was shaded over by them already playing terrible, the Landry addition, and Tyreke's fabricated march down history lane, but the results have plateaued.

All those preaching consistency are right on the money with regards to improved basketball by this team. Hopefully Westphal will stick with this lineup and not yank someone out after 10 minutes and give these new starters a chance to learn one another in a game setting. I so want this team to show some level of improvement and play some good basketball... it feels like adequate play is so close and that is what makes it so frustrating to watch the stagnation.

 

[Lockehead]

At least hes seemed to pick something up - more P.T. for Donte.

 

[Asaf]

I think Westphal should bench himself for 5 games and let Elie coach for a while until he learns how to teach defense and offense to his team...

 

[BMiller52]

Casspi has played lousy, and that's being very charitable. His defense has been ridiculously bad and that's why he got jerked. And Westphal had a helluvalot more patience than I would with keeping him in there for stretches of defensive putridness. Maybe he should go to the doghouse for about 5 games so he can get his head on straight.

Cosigned. I'm usually not supportive of a guy losing their starting job but right now Omri's not defending well, not shooting well, and he's not doing anything else well. Donte can atleast try to play defense and spot up for shots.

 

[Prince_XY]

Even further, the Kings are 10-28 since the Martin trade. We aren't working with a 10 game sample here. Westphal has been volatile with the lineup dating back to last season and the Kings haven't been winning games or playing good basketball for quite some time. The end of the last season was shaded over by them already playing terrible, the Landry addition, and Tyreke's fabricated march down history lane, but the results have plateaued.

All those preaching consistency are right on the money with regards to improved basketball by this team. Hopefully Westphal will stick with this lineup and not yank someone out after 10 minutes and give these new starters a chance to learn one another in a game setting. I so want this team to show some level of improvement and play some good basketball... it feels like adequate play is so close and that is what makes it so frustrating to watch the stagnation.

Oh, yes we are. We are working with a 10 game sample here.

1.) Before those 10 games, we don't have Dalembert and Cousins. Two big men projected to be possible key players and starters on this team. One barely plays in the NBA because he is a rookie, the other is a veteran working his way into the game because of injury.

2.) Before those 10 games, we don't have Whiteside. Not that Whiteside really played in those 10 games, but I am pretty sure he indirectly affects decisions of the coach (and the FO) regarding how they would use the BIGs now and in the future.

Whiteside will surely be a keeper for this team. He is young, cheaper to maintain salary-wise, and full of potential of becoming the next defensive anchor for the team. Maybe Westphal and Petrie are about to purge our frontline of good BIGs with a trade this coming trade deadline? If they are, which I believe they should, because we have so many good BIGs who FAIRLY deserve consistent minutes of playing time, then Westphal is doing a good job with experimenting on his rotation as early as NOW.

Westphal and Petrie needs to know who will be keepers and who will be goners. Play Landry and show-case him as a valuable starter to increase his worth. Play the low-salaried Jackson to know if he is good enough to be the 5th or even 4th BIG in our rotation. Bench Greene and punish him for coming-in fat and showing intensity only when he is waving towels on the bench. If they see Greene as a keeper, no harm done. It is good lesson for him and hopefully he learns. It is also good for the team, since it opens up some more minutes for other players (Head, Wright, or whoever) who need to be evaluated too as early as NOW.

Nobody believes we are serious contenders for playoffs anyways. We can experiment and waste half of this season to put us in a better position winning more games later and in the future.

3.) Before those 10 games, we don't have Jackson, Head, Jeter, and Wright. Who knows what these players can really do NOW while wearing the Kings uniform. Are these players the scrub players we need in case of emergency?

4.) Before those 10 games, Garcia has not played a real game for almost one year.

4.) Before those 10 games, Landry has not played one season with the Kings.

5.) And during those ten games, Evans wasn't able to play the first game due to suspension and Dalembert was nursing an injury.

I guess what I am saying is - it is not too hard to see why Westphal has not found the right players to start for the team in ten games. Yes, grading how Westphal manage his rotation should start only this season. WE HAVE A NEW TEAM! Only Evans, Beno, Casspi, Greene, and Thompson are hold-overs from the old team who have played the whole season with us. Of those, only Evans is the clear starter for this team. Also, projected starters haven't really played together and newcomers haven't really been tested and we don't know how they will play wearing the Kings uniform!

The chemistry and consistency in our starting line-up will take time to build and figure out. Maybe if we have Lebron, Wade, and Bosh, Westphal won't be experimenting a lot with his line-up. Those guys are tested veterans and started with a mission at the back of their mind. And who do we have? The sophomore Evans and the "rookie" Cousins. Both still trying to figure out what NBA is really all about.

Another thing, fans can't even make-up their minds whether they would like to start Greene or Casspi, Cousins or Dalembert, Landry or Thompson, Garcia or Beno. A very clear indication that we have such a complicated roster that even fans doesn't have a unanimous concensus on which players should start.

To complicate matters more for Westphal, Jackson has played wonderfully and Head looks like a fair pick-up as scrub-players for the team that you have to see how much farther these guys can give you in the future by playing them too. Greene came in over-weight. Thompson came in as the same inconsistent BIG that he is. And Landry for some reason lost his touch.

I mean, give Westphal the benefit of the doubt at least upto the middle of the season until everyone settles. We are not projected to win half of the games anyways.

 

[Tyndel]

You bring up an interesting point but where are they no longer acceptable losses? If we take 1/2 the season to verify what we already knew as our future then isn't is worth it to just keep nosing our way to the bottom and get another high draft pick?

We are already a franchise that is on the verge of collapse or departure so should we really be diddling around instead of winning and packing the house? We may have learned some about our new min salary guys the last 10 games but our team might be requesting to move if things don't turn around here quick. We can't waste time thats what training camp and pre-season were for. We have to win this year and by extension start filling arco again or we may be gone very soon.

My personal objection to Westphal this year is we spent all of last year learning about our young guys the guys we didn't know about this year was our 2 rooks(one who isn't getting to play so much for building him when he can't be any worse already then some of the guys playing a few minutes) and our min salary roster fillers. Not to put them down but our core is who needs the time to play together and grow together and get better and he has hurt their growth both solo and together so far why would we think he isn't going to continue hurting it?

Like I said before if we had only the players we had coming off draft night we would have a better record right now cause the coach wouldn't have been able to screw it up. Evans cisco beno backcourt green casspi on the wing JT Landry at the 4 and Cousins dally down low with Whiteside covering the 4 and 5 spot minutes. Thats a 9-10 man rotation how big a rotation do we need? We knew what we had in June why don't we know what we have now?

edit
Winning this year means getting within spitting distance of 500 ball come the end of the year.

 

[chief bromden]

We are working on a 10 game sample here.

Oh, yes we are. We are working with a 10 game sample here.

1.) Before those 10 games, we don't have Dalembert and Cousins. Two big men projected to be key players and starter caliber player on this team. One barely plays in the NBA because he is a rookie, the other is a veteran working his way into the game because of injury.

2.) Before those 10 games, we don't have Whiteside. Not that Whiteside really matters in those 10 games, but I am pretty sure he indirectly affects decisions of the coach (and the FO) regarding how they would use the BIGs now and in the future.

Whiteside will surely be a keeper for this team. He is young, cheaper to maintain salary-wise, and full of potential of becoming the next defensive anchor for the team. Maybe Westphal and Petrie is about to purge our frontline of good BIGs for a possible trade this coming trade deadline? If they are which I believe they should, because we have so many good BIGs who FAIRLY need consistent minutes of playing time, then Westphal is doing a good job with experimenting on his rotation as early as NOW.

Westphal and Petrie needs to know who will be keepers and who will be goners. Play Landry and show-case him as a valuable starter to increase his worth. Play the low-salaried Jackson to know if he is good enough to be the 4th or 5th BIG in our rotation. You can bench Greene this early if you see him as a keeper in the future to open-up some more minutes for other players (Head, Wright, or whoever) who need to be evaluated as early as NOW.

Nobody believes we are serious contenders for playoffs anyways. We can experiment and waste half of this season to put us in a better position to winning more games later and in the future.

3.) Before those 10 games, we don't have Jackson, Head, Jeter, and Wright. Who knows what these players can really do while wearing the Kings uniform. Are these players the scrub players we need in case of emergency?

4.) Before those 10 games, Garcia hasn't played for the team for almost one year.

4.) Before those 10 games, Landry hasn't played a complete season with the Kings.

5.) Before those ten games, Evans wasn't able to play the first game due to suspension. Not to mention that the other starter at the center position (Dalembert) didn't also because of injury and only played later.

I guess what I am saying is - it is not too hard to see why Westphal has not found the right rotation for the team in ten games. Yes, grading how Westphal will manage this roster should start only this ten games. WE HAVE A NEW TEAM! Only Evans, Beno, Casspi, Greene, and Thompson are hold-overs from the old team who have played the whole season with us. Of those, only Evans is the clear starter for this team. Also, projected starters haven't really played together and newcomers haven't really been tested and we don't know how they will play wearing the Kings uniform!

The chemistry and consistency in our starting line-up will take time to build and figure out. Maybe if we have Lebron, Wade, and Bosh, Westphal won't be experimenting a lot with his line-up. Those guys are tested veterans and started with a mission at the back of their mind. And who do we have? The sophomore Evans and the "rookie" Cousins. Both still trying to figure out what NBA is really all about.

Another thing, fans can't even make-up their mind whether they would like to start Greene or Casspi, Cousins or Dalembert, Landry or Thompson, Garcia or Beno. A very clear indication that we have such a complicated roster that even fans doesn't have a unanimous concensus on which players should start.

To complicate matters more for Westphal, Jackson has played wonderfully and Head looks like a fair pick-up as scrub-players for the team that you have to see how much farther these guys can give you in the future by playing them too. Greene came in over-weight. Thompson came in as the same inconsistent BIG that he is. And Landry for some reason lost his touch.

I mean, give Westphal the benefit of the doubt at least upto the middle of the season when everyone settles. We are not projected to win half of the games anyways whether we like it or not.

Give him the benefit of the doubt? What good does that do? I don't control his employment with the team and have no opportunity to give him the benefit of anything.

Garcia played 25 games last year
Landry played 28 games last year

With Landry, the Kings were 7-21.

Sure we could use more time to evaluate the team itself, if we are speaking in terms of the whole upcoming season. So far they suck, no doubt about that. You might be able to argue that they will improve since they are young and haven't had a lot of time to play together, which you are. Cool. Westphal isn't young, however, and likely won't be changing his coaching style anytime soon. If you believe that his coaching style and approach will change, please shed some light on this for me. So tell me again, why can't I evaluate Westphal, as a coach, with more than just the 10 games played this season?

Roster turnover is a constant in the NBA. Can we not look at Popovich because Manu wasn't starting last year and this year he is? Could we not evaluate his skills as a coach last year because of the new addition of Jefferson in the starting lineup? What about our old buddy Adelman? They had a lot of turnover this past off season, so now we have no idea what kind of coach he is? What about McMillan up in Portland? Larry Brown down in Charlotte?

"We can waste a half season"
You lost me there. If that is there attitude, then they are not trying to put people in the seats...which would lead to the conclusion that...

 

[LilMissDiva]

And damnit Westphal, give them a few games to get into sync this time and try to establish a defensive mindset before switching it up again.

Absolutely!

It's true as in anywhere in life. Do you think I'm going to be comfortable and know how to do what I'm doing every day, if I go in to work and my boss keeps having me do a different desk?

C'mon.

 

[King Baller]

Its WAY too early to change coaches. You guys have set your expectations WAY too high for this young inexperienced team that is just starting to learn to play with the new Centers.

That said Westphal needs to set a starting/bench rotation and follow it until fouls, injuries or an odd matchup force change.

Fellas play better when they know their role.

The 8 to 10 that PLAY all need their minutes to learn to play at this level and with each other.

Here are some random notes to fuel improvement:

I really like Cousins and JT coming in together from the bench and in time starting.
Greene is needed in the game not on the bench.
Feed Landry and Cousins in the post.
Quit making Jump passes.
If you are going to foul a player going to the hoop make the foul hard enough to stop the ball from going in the hoop.
Don't jump out at 3 point shooters and foul them.

KB

 

[Kingster]

Oh, yes we are. We are working with a 10 game sample here.

1.) Before those 10 games, we don't have Dalembert and Cousins. Two big men projected to be possible key players and starters on this team. One barely plays in the NBA because he is a rookie, the other is a veteran working his way into the game because of injury.

2.) Before those 10 games, we don't have Whiteside. Not that Whiteside really played in those 10 games, but I am pretty sure he indirectly affects decisions of the coach (and the FO) regarding how they would use the BIGs now and in the future.

Whiteside will surely be a keeper for this team. He is young, cheaper to maintain salary-wise, and full of potential of becoming the next defensive anchor for the team. Maybe Westphal and Petrie are about to purge our frontline of good BIGs with a trade this coming trade deadline? If they are, which I believe they should, because we have so many good BIGs who FAIRLY deserve consistent minutes of playing time, then Westphal is doing a good job with experimenting on his rotation as early as NOW.

Westphal and Petrie needs to know who will be keepers and who will be goners. Play Landry and show-case him as a valuable starter to increase his worth. Play the low-salaried Jackson to know if he is good enough to be the 5th or even 4th BIG in our rotation. Bench Greene and punish him for coming-in fat and showing intensity only when he is waving towels on the bench. If they see Greene as a keeper, no harm done. It is good lesson for him and hopefully he learns. It is also good for the team, since it opens up some more minutes for other players (Head, Wright, or whoever) who need to be evaluated too as early as NOW.

Nobody believes we are serious contenders for playoffs anyways. We can experiment and waste half of this season to put us in a better position winning more games later and in the future.

3.) Before those 10 games, we don't have Jackson, Head, Jeter, and Wright. Who knows what these players can really do NOW while wearing the Kings uniform. Are these players the scrub players we need in case of emergency?

4.) Before those 10 games, Garcia has not played a real game for almost one year.

4.) Before those 10 games, Landry has not played one season with the Kings.

5.) And during those ten games, Evans wasn't able to play the first game due to suspension and Dalembert was nursing an injury.

I guess what I am saying is - it is not too hard to see why Westphal has not found the right players to start for the team in ten games. Yes, grading how Westphal manage his rotation should start only this season. WE HAVE A NEW TEAM! Only Evans, Beno, Casspi, Greene, and Thompson are hold-overs from the old team who have played the whole season with us. Of those, only Evans is the clear starter for this team. Also, projected starters haven't really played together and newcomers haven't really been tested and we don't know how they will play wearing the Kings uniform!

The chemistry and consistency in our starting line-up will take time to build and figure out. Maybe if we have Lebron, Wade, and Bosh, Westphal won't be experimenting a lot with his line-up. Those guys are tested veterans and started with a mission at the back of their mind. And who do we have? The sophomore Evans and the "rookie" Cousins. Both still trying to figure out what NBA is really all about.

Another thing, fans can't even make-up their minds whether they would like to start Greene or Casspi, Cousins or Dalembert, Landry or Thompson, Garcia or Beno. A very clear indication that we have such a complicated roster that even fans doesn't have a unanimous concensus on which players should start.

To complicate matters more for Westphal, Jackson has played wonderfully and Head looks like a fair pick-up as scrub-players for the team that you have to see how much farther these guys can give you in the future by playing them too. Greene came in over-weight. Thompson came in as the same inconsistent BIG that he is. And Landry for some reason lost his touch.

I mean, give Westphal the benefit of the doubt at least upto the middle of the season until everyone settles. We are not projected to win half of the games anyways.

Nice post. In particular the comment in green above is right on the money. There isn't consensus because the performance is relatively equal talent among these players. And to complicate matters there is inconsistency among the young players (and vets as well). So relatively equal performance + Inconsistency = Mess. Also, even with Miami, who doesn't have those problems, they too, are getting used to one another. I still contend that the change at center is a big deal for this team. If you changed a wing position, I don't think it would be, but at center it changes a lot.

 

[Rookie]

We may have different perception of who should start (the main 5) but the coach better find out quickly. He has more opportunity to see what those guys can do and what they can offer. After that he should just pick those he thinks have the best talents. Then you start building the team around those talents.

I think he's trying to "find" the best group instead of "creating" the best group. With chaotic rotations, I don't blame the players for being lost.

 

[bajaden]

Nice post. In particular the comment in green above is right on the money. There isn't consensus because the performance is relatively equal talent among these players. And to complicate matters there is inconsistency among the young players (and vets as well). So relatively equal performance + Inconsistency = Mess. Also, even with Miami, who doesn't have those problems, they too, are getting used to one another. I still contend that the change at center is a big deal for this team. If you changed a wing position, I don't think it would be, but at center it changes a lot.

A lot of good points made in the thread, from folks on both sides. We've had 4 different starting lineups in 10 games. Sorry, but thats a bit much. I understand the center position with Dalembert being injured, but I think the other situations are a bit of a reach. The fact that the fans can't even come to a consensus is meaningless. What have they had to base their opinions on, other than the lineups that the coach has thrown out there.

Let me ask a question. What is summer league for? What is pre-season for? If your going to eventually cut Marcus Landry, then why in the hell are you playing him in pre-season instead of giving those minutes to Greene and Casspi in order to see which of the two you want to start. Isn't a coach suspossed to be a judge of talent? Are you telling me that Westphal still doesn't know which of Greene and Casspi is the better defender? Are you telling me that just now he's figured out that Head is a better defender than Beno, who is, for whatever reason playing worse defense than last year. The word sieve springs to mind. Didn't Westphal get a chance to watch Beno, Greene and Casspi last year? Didn't he gleen some sort of information from that. Is everything he learned about Thompson last year just thrown out the window because he's now infatuated with Jackson? Sometimes I think newer is always better with Westphal. Even if comes in the package of an older player. Sean May, Udoka, Wright, and the great Desmond Mason..

Even Minnesota who has a younger team than us has had essentially the same lineup all season through 13 games, except for 1st round pick, Wesley Johnson being added to the starting lineup. The only other change came as a result of Ridnour being injured.

Your right! Young players need more patience. And more patience means more than starting a couple of games and getting jerked to the end of the bench. Westphal needs to decide what kind of team he wants to start the game with. An offensive team or a defensive team. Apparently we don't have the personnel to field a team that can do both. Or at least not well enough. So he needs to make a decision and stick with it. Because to these old eyes, he doesn't look like he has a clue what he doing right now.

This isn't rocket science.. Pick the five best players, that to the best of your knowledge, which should be more than mine or anyone else on this fourm, can accomplish what you want on the floor and stick with them. If they make a mistake, then they make a mistake. You have to handle young players differently than veteran players. I watched Calapari handle Couisns and Wall last year. When they made a mistake he took them out of the game at the first opportunity and sat them down next to him and talked to them. And then he would send them right back into the game. He didn't send to the end of the bench and forget about them. God forbid, he actually tutored them. And surprise, surprise, they got better as the season progressed.

Yeah I know this isn't college, but a lot of the core players on this team are young enough to be in college. Does that mean they should be handled differently now that they're in the pro's. Do they suddenly get smarter and wiser the minute they put on an NBA uniform? I think not!!

 

[IfAt1st]

There are some accurate criticisms of PW in this thread, but there's a bit of absurdity, too:

I'm curious -

Is anyone advocating that PW should "just let them play" when the player is sucking that night?
The Kings players have not been REMOTELY consistent this year. Their play has been remarkably up and down.

If he had left some of these guys in (longer than he did) on the nights when they were not performing well, KF's would have been up in arms and wanting his head.

Can we at least get one compliment to PW, that he pulls people off the floor this year when they obviously don't have it that night?
Or is that just another thing to complain about the coach about?

 

[Superman]

There are some accurate criticisms of PW in this thread, but there's a bit of absurdity, too:

I'm curious -

Is anyone advocating that PW should "just let them play" when the player is sucking that night?
The Kings players have not been REMOTELY consistent this year. Their play has been remarkably up and down.

If he had left some of these guys in (longer than he did) on the nights when they were not performing well, KF's would have been up in arms and wanting his head.

Can we at least get one compliment to PW, that he pulls people off the floor this year when they obviously don't have it that night?
Or is that just another thing to complain about the coach about?

The players have not been consistent, but at least some of that can be credited to the fact that their minutes and the rotation has not been consistent either. Direct correlation there...

 

[Kingster]

A lot of good points made in the thread, from folks on both sides. We've had 4 different starting lineups in 10 games. Sorry, but thats a bit much. I understand the center position with Dalembert being injured, but I think the other situations are a bit of a reach. The fact that the fans can't even come to a consensus is meaningless. What have they had to base their opinions on, other than the lineups that the coach has thrown out there.

Let me ask a question. What is summer league for? What is pre-season for? If your going to eventually cut Marcus Landry, then why in the hell are you playing him in pre-season instead of giving those minutes to Greene and Casspi in order to see which of the two you want to start. Isn't a coach suspossed to be a judge of talent? Are you telling me that Westphal still doesn't know which of Greene and Casspi is the better defender? Are you telling me that just now he's figured out that Head is a better defender than Beno, who is, for whatever reason playing worse defense than last year. The word sieve springs to mind. Didn't Westphal get a chance to watch Beno, Greene and Casspi last year? Didn't he gleen some sort of information from that. Is everything he learned about Thompson last year just thrown out the window because he's now infatuated with Jackson? Sometimes I think newer is always better with Westphal. Even if comes in the package of an older player. Sean May, Udoka, Wright, and the great Desmond Mason..

Even Minnesota who has a younger team than us has had essentially the same lineup all season through 13 games, except for 1st round pick, Wesley Johnson being added to the starting lineup. The only other change came as a result of Ridnour being injured.

Your right! Young players need more patience. And more patience means more than starting a couple of games and getting jerked to the end of the bench. Westphal needs to decide what kind of team he wants to start the game with. An offensive team or a defensive team. Apparently we don't have the personnel to field a team that can do both. Or at least not well enough. So he needs to make a decision and stick with it. Because to these old eyes, he doesn't look like he has a clue what he doing right now.

This isn't rocket science.. Pick the five best players, that to the best of your knowledge, which should be more than mine or anyone else on this fourm, can accomplish what you want on the floor and stick with them. If they make a mistake, then they make a mistake. You have to handle young players differently than veteran players. I watched Calapari handle Couisns and Wall last year. When they made a mistake he took them out of the game at the first opportunity and sat them down next to him and talked to them. And then he would send them right back into the game. He didn't send to the end of the bench and forget about them. God forbid, he actually tutored them. And surprise, surprise, they got better as the season progressed.

Yeah I know this isn't college, but a lot of the core players on this team are young enough to be in college. Does that mean they should be handled differently now that they're in the pro's. Do they suddenly get smarter and wiser the minute they put on an NBA uniform? I think not!!

I agree with you: the coach does need to assess talent. And for all I know he has made his talent evaluation. Let's take Greene as an example. Maybe he thinks Greene is more talented than Casspi, and Casspi is more talented than Garcia. Just assuming for purposes of the discussion. But as you know, it's not just about talent. It's about work ethic, commitment, improvement, and even character (non-selfishness, for example). Just because he thinks Greene is more talented, doesn't mean that Greene should play more. It doesn't even mean that Greene should play at all. (And Westphal doesn't think so either; hence, the doghouse). I don't think Westphal is changing the minutes primarily because of Greene's mistakes on the floor. What about 25 lbs overweight? That isn't minor. One can't avoid this question with Greene: So, if he came into camp 25 lbs overweight, what else isn't he doing that he should be doing to improve his game? He may have the talent, but does he have the drive and the work ethic?

Now a question: So despite Greene's misbehavior, should Westphal, knowing he is the most talented three, still give him consistent minutes?

Now take Casspi. He's been playing lousy. Doesn't defend. Seems out of sorts. Doesn't make his shots. To me, he looks like he's playing selfishly (and others have said that on this board, so at best one can say reasonable people can differ on that).

Now another question: Despite Casspi's poor play, should Westphal continue to give him consistent minutes?

Just asking.

Then take Cousins. Plays like an absolute dog on defense in the first few games of the season. I'm 54, and I think I could have played better D in those games. The team was getting HUGE deficits in first halfs in large measure because of it.

Question: Do you think Westphal should have continued giving Cousins big minutes at the beginning of games? Isn't that rewarding bad play? Not just bad play. I'd even go far as to say, poor effort.

Look at the defensive performance of Cousins after he came off the bench. Did he get much better? Answer: Yes, much better. The last game showed the most defensive intensity by Cousins of any game so far this year.

Do I desperately want a consistent lineup with a consistent rotation? Hell, yes! Would I like Westphal to just give Greene (as an example) consistent minutes over the next five games? Hell yes again! However, if Greene just stinks up the place over five games, would I think about giving Casspi or Garcia his minutes? Hell, yes again!

 

[bajaden]

I agree with you: the coach does need to assess talent. And for all I know he has made his talent evaluation. Let's take Greene as an example. Maybe he thinks Greene is more talented than Casspi, and Casspi is more talented than Garcia. Just assuming for purposes of the discussion. But as you know, it's not just about talent. It's about work ethic, commitment, improvement, and even character (non-selfishness, for example). Just because he thinks Greene is more talented, doesn't mean that Greene should play more. It doesn't even mean that Greene should play at all. (And Westphal doesn't think so either; hence, the doghouse). I don't think Westphal is changing the minutes primarily because of Greene's mistakes on the floor. What about 25 lbs overweight? That isn't minor. One can't avoid this question with Greene: So, if he came into camp 25 lbs overweight, what else isn't he doing that he should be doing to improve his game? He may have the talent, but does he have the drive and the work ethic?

Now a question: So despite Greene's misbehavior, should Westphal, knowing he is the most talented three, still give him consistent minutes?

Now take Casspi. He's been playing lousy. Doesn't defend. Seems out of sorts. Doesn't make his shots. To me, he looks like he's playing selfishly (and others have said that on this board, so at best one can say reasonable people can differ on that).

Now another question: Despite Casspi's poor play, should Westphal continue to give him consistent minutes?

Just asking.

Then take Cousins. Plays like an absolute dog on defense in the first few games of the season. I'm 54, and I think I could have played better D in those games. The team was getting HUGE deficits in first halfs in large measure because of it.

Question: Do you think Westphal should have continued giving Cousins big minutes at the beginning of games? Isn't that rewarding bad play? Not just bad play. I'd even go far as to say, poor effort.

Look at the defensive performance of Cousins after he came off the bench. Did he get much better? Answer: Yes, much better. The last game showed the most defensive intensity by Cousins of any game so far this year.

Do I desperately want a consistent lineup with a consistent rotation? Hell, yes! Would I like Westphal to just give Greene (as an example) consistent minutes over the next five games? Hell yes again! However, if Greene just stinks up the place over five games, would I think about giving Casspi or Garcia his minutes? Hell, yes again!

I don't disagree with much of what you said. And your right, you can't have this discussion without talking about Greene. So here's another question. If Westphal was so upset with Greene coming into camp overweight and out of shape, why did he insert him into the starting lineup for the first game? And then from the first game he went to the bench as the backup, and then to DNP coaches decision. Why not just relegate him to DNP right from the get go if your upset with him. That entire sequence confused me and I'm sure it must have confused Greene. In the process of jerking around Greene, your also jerking around Casspi, and to a smaller extent, Cisco, who lest anyone forgets, was the starting SF before suffering and injury a year ago.

I'm not saying you have to give huge minutes to players that aren't playing well on a given night. All I'm saying is figure out a starting lineup and stick with it. Figure out your rotation and stick with it. After that, let the quality of play determine the minutes. If you've chosen the starting lineup wisely, then those players should over time get the most minutes. If you want consistency, then you have to let the same players play together on a constant basis. The majority of them are very capable of playing very well as individuals. And therein lies the problem. You don't win with five individuals on the floor. You win with five players playing as a team on the floor, and that comes from the same five guys playing together over and over and over again.

I agree that the last game was Cousins best this year. Especially defensively. He actually defended Stoudemire better than anyone else out there. As for his starting, I don't think he would have started any games so far this year had Dalembert been healthy. And I'm fine with that. Other than the one game where he only had one foul at halftime and Westphal didn't play him but a few minutes in the second half, I have no complaints. I think he will be the eventual starter. I don't know if it will happen this season or not, but the handwriting is on the wall. He's just too talented not to.

 

[TheWileyVet]

All I ask is the PW sticks to a consistent rotation, let's the young guys play and make their mistakes, and play ppl at their natural position.



Coming into the season I thought we would finish somewhere around 35 wins. I'm not asking for a miracle this year, just for more development for our team's future.

 

[Sac.1989]

It does seem PW has turned over a new leaf in terms of our rotation, quotes from the media and the general consensus is that yes he has finally settled on a rotation with our starting lineup of Reke, Head, Donte, Dally and Landry here to stay for the time being.

We basically had a new squad going into the season and yes preseason and summer league should have been used more efficiently to figure out rotations but i do feel from here we can push on forward after our losing streak. Its a young team and it was inevitable that PW simply had to figure out how to use all that talent and potential which i feel he has now.

Time to really push forward

 

[Sac.1989]

Settled rotation and defensive intensity. Shame we lost to NOH but things are really looking on the up

 

[s2kinteg916]

Die hard kings fan here but the only blame to the loses this year is from the team.

Tyreke has been a turn over machine teams are doubling him and jamming up the lane. He has spent alot of time on the bench in foul trouble as well as having a hard time getting to the basket compared to last year.

The other team has taken advantage of our weak 3 spot.

Luther head has good defense but hes not a natural passer not to mention his leaning 3 point shot selection. Talk about trigger happy..... Hes fast at least

The kings are missing not only talent but key pieces just like miami with no pure point guard. Put rondo on our team and we probally be 8 and 4.

I watched many games this year and our team just doesnt know how to move the ball there is no rhythm. We are standing around waiting for tyreke to penetrate but the other team is clogging up the lane.

I think kings fan like myself expect more than what is reality. We have a good team but we are missing very important pieces.

 

[Superman]

Settled rotation and defensive intensity. Shame we lost to NOH but things are really looking on the up

This I can agree with. Hopefully we'll look back on the first ten games or so and be thankful that he used those games to find a set rotation and play the guys who were willing to give maximum effort. Of course, if the lineups start changing again in a week, I'll go back to being upset.

 

[bajaden]

Die hard kings fan here but the only blame to the loses this year is from the team.

Tyreke has been a turn over machine teams are doubling him and jamming up the lane. He has spent alot of time on the bench in foul trouble as well as having a hard time getting to the basket compared to last year.

The other team has taken advantage of our weak 3 spot.

Luther head has good defense but hes not a natural passer not to mention his leaning 3 point shot selection. Talk about trigger happy..... Hes fast at least

The kings are missing not only talent but key pieces just like miami with no pure point guard. Put rondo on our team and we probally be 8 and 4.

I watched many games this year and our team just doesnt know how to move the ball there is no rhythm. We are standing around waiting for tyreke to penetrate but the other team is clogging up the lane.

I think kings fan like myself expect more than what is reality. We have a good team but we are missing very important pieces.

I don't mean to pick on you, but its time that folks do some research before making statements as though they're fact. Lets look at some facts about Luther Head. At the moment he's shooting 51.1% overall from the field. For a jump shooter thats excellent. Thats what post players usually shoot. From 3pt range he's shooting 37.5%. Thats considered a good 3pt shooting percentage in the NBA. Lets look at his last 4 games now that he's starting.

Hornets: Head took 4 shots and made all 4. He was 3 of 3 from beyond the arc and scored 11 pts.

Net's: Head took 4 shots and made 3 of them. He was 1 of 1 from beyond the arc and scored 10 pts.

Knicks: Head took 8 shots and made 5 of them. He was 1 of 3 from beyond the arc and scored 13 pts.

Pistons: Head took 8 shots and made 5 of them. He was 1 of 3 from beyond the arc and scored 13 pts.

Through those last 4 games he averaging a grand total of 6 shots per game. Hardly excessive, and certainly doesn't lead one to believe he's trigger happy. Through those 4 games he's shooting 75% overall from the floor and 66.6% from beyond the arc. Maybe we should encourage him to shoot more, and not less, since he seems to one of the few that can make a shot. Through that span he has played outstanding defense on a couple of the best pt guards in the league.

While I agree that Head is not a true pt guard, he's done a pretty fair job of bringing the ball up the court and getting it into Evans or Landrys hands to start the offense. Its at that point the offense starts to stagnate. He's a combo guard that can handle the ball and make decent passes. But Steve Nash he's not. His worse turnover game was last night, but then he had a lot of company. Careless passes against the Nets might work, but against the Hornets they become turnovers.

 

[Boogie-havoc]

People who critisize Head for playing, or Darnell Jackson before that, are narrow minded people who had a grand plan of how things needs to work, and when it doesn't they get pissed off - without even noticing the guys who do play do a preety great job.

Head other then the Lakers game(hekc even in the Lakers game other then his shot selection his D was the best on the team) was a bank-option for us, you knew what he's giving you and he ALWAYS delivered.. same with Darnell atleast before a couple of games ago.

So what if some of you didn't rate the player before or wish for other players to play or something.. he's playing awesome right now and anyone dissing him just makes anyone who does that look ridicoules.

 

[MCPATD]

I have always been a big Paul Westphal fan as a coach and player but here is my issue I have with him. He is the only coach in the NBA that I have ever noticed that when he replaces a starter, the previous starter get DNP’s the following games? Normally what would happen is the starter now comes off the bench for 15-20 min but the way Paul handles the small forward spot with Casspi is just mind boggling. He did the same thing when Greene originally was the starter and after a couple games coach changed it to Casspi to start, then Greene would get DNP’s?

He handles it like a normal coach with Beno and Head. Head takes over as starter and Beno comes off the bench for 25 minutes, but I can’t understand his thinking of how he handles the SF postion. Casspi is so good at hitting that corner 3, we could have used him on the floor at the end of the game as well as Beno instead of Head. Plus JT was awesome in limited minutes, yet was never brought back in? Am I the only one noticing this odd pattern?

 

[bajaden]

I have always been a big Paul Westphal fan as a coach and player but here is my issue I have with him. He is the only coach in the NBA that I have ever noticed that when he replaces a starter, the previous starter get DNP’s the following games? Normally what would happen is the starter now comes off the bench for 15-20 min but the way Paul handles the small forward spot with Casspi is just mind boggling. He did the same thing when Greene originally was the starter and after a couple games coach changed it to Casspi to start, then Greene would get DNP’s?

He handles it like a normal coach with Beno and Head. Head takes over as starter and Beno comes off the bench for 25 minutes, but I can’t understand his thinking of how he handles the SF postion. Casspi is so good at hitting that corner 3, we could have used him on the floor at the end of the game as well as Beno instead of Head. Plus JT was awesome in limited minutes, yet was never brought back in? Am I the only one noticing this odd pattern?

Yeah, JT had 6 pt's and 3 boards in 7 minutes and was very active defensively in his short stint on the floor. To be honest I was surprised and not surprised that Westphal didn't go back to him later in the game. I put it that way because I have no idea at all what Westphal is thinking from one moment to the next. I've watched a lot of coaches in my 50 plus years of watching basketball, and none of them has confused me as much as Westphal has. Not sure if its a good thing or a bad thing. The wins and losses and the development of players at seasons end will determine that. But I will admit that much of the time I'm totally clueless as to what he's doing, or trying to do.

 

[rexb_kings]

good points.

actually it's been painful watching the Kings play lately. it's almost always a sure foul and free shots on the defensive end. uurgh..

 

[OptimusRhyme]

ill be the one to bump this thread. a blowout loss to the clippers..
Theres no offensive structure, there is no rotations on defense. There is no transition defense at all. This team cannot hit a 3 if there life depended on it. Kings games arent fun to watch anymore.

I use to skip any event to see a kings games. Now i feel like i dont even care if i miss a kings game because i know how bad its going to be.